Reading/speaking Thai.

[Harcourt]

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.

It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

[ElZorro]

Learn to read first. It's not that difficult, really. All those who keep repeating that reading Thai is almost impossible, that the Thai alphabet has so many consonants and vowels, etc. are just justifying themselves for not doing anything about their illiteracy problem. Learning to read Thai is not more difficult than learning to read any other language. Start with the Manee reader and keep at it. Learning a language is so much easier when you can read it.

[leftnose]

....

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

Don't you think learning to read and speak Thai at the same time would be best?

If you have sufficient time and determination, is there a reason to do one and not the other?

It is virtually certain that your Thai speaking will improve dramatically if you learn to read Thai at the same time, especially if you learn to read from a native and read out loud with correction from your instructor.

A short course to get the fundamentals of reading down, then your set to expand your Thai language skills on your own from that point on.

[Gwindarr]

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.

It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

There isn't any correct order. I don't think it really matter how you get there. What matters is that you do things that are enjoyable (or at least painless) to keep you on the path. I'd strongly suggest learning to read right away as it will make everything easier in the long run. And you are correct about transliteration it sucks. Get away from it asap. You could learn the alphabet in a day if you put in the time. Just get it over with so you can start looking for fun stuff to read. If you have access to a native speaker it could help a lot, but there are enough resources online that you can by without one if necessary.

[Richard W]

And you are correct about transliteration it sucks. Get away from it asap.

Better still, use it to check that you've correctly deduced the pronunciation. There are some oddities and inscrutabilities around:

ตำรวจ, ทรมาน, ทราย, สามารถ and, in rarer words, the ambiguous pairs เสลา and แหน.

Unfortunately, many sources will not tell you vowel lengths when Thai orthography does not mark it clearly, or worse still, has not kept pace with changes. And beware sources that deduce pronunciation from spelling.

[zzaa09]

Comprehend and firmly understand the verbal language first....the written one comes easy afterward.

[dvc]

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.

It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

The two can be learned at the same time. It is certainly not a good idea to attempt the verbal side of the language in isolation from the Thai alphabet. If you use Latin transliteration systems for anything other than clarification of ambiguous spelling, you're asking for problems later on. Transliteration systems will lead to inaccurate pronunciation habits which will be hard to break.

I took a look at the website mentioned by poster "ElZorro", called Manee Reader.

http://www.learningthai.com/books/manee/index.html

This is an excellent website to begin learning to read and write. You might also like to look at http://www.lyndonhill.com/FunThai/CONTENTS.html It does not feature audio files like the Manee Reader site, but it will provide you with everything you need to learn to read and write. I have the hardcover, (book), version from which the website takes its contents. It was my source for learning to read and write, along with an audio cassette of the consonants and vowels made by a native Thai speaker.

Go with what the majority of respondents have stated. IE: learn to read and write before, or at the same time as you study the spoken language and you can't go wrong. Knowledge of the written language is not just a nice bonus, it is absolutely necessary to putting you on the path to good spoken Thai.

The importance of being able to read and write will only become apparent to you once you can read and write.

Have faith, study hard, and in the end, all will be revealed.

Edited August 3, 2009 by dvc

[visareal]

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.

It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

bring a thai partner to a karaoke and learn from there. by far, the fastest way to learn thai without tears.

[RickBradford]

Learn to read Thai, but in the meantime create your own consistent transliteration scheme (or borrow one such as ThaiLanguage's) which pays attention to both vowel length and tone.

Then, if you need to quickly remind yourself of a word, you can see it in its transliterated form and pronounce it correctly straight away.

Over time, you should find less and less need for the transliteration process, but it might still be useful if you hear somebody say an unfamiliar word and you want to write it down so you can check it later.

[Harcourt]

Thanks. I said I'd value the opinions.... and i got every angle: read first, speak first, do both at once .

I will try to do both simultaneously, as I sort of am doing now.

Thanks all.

[withnail]

The most important thing is that you learn the sounds of Thai first. Learning the alphabet without realizing what sound each letter represents is almost pointless and your speaking will be terrible if you just plough right in and start learning more words than you can pronounce.

I agree that you should learn to read Thai as early as you can, but it's not harmful to be using a system of transliteration whilst you start to learn some simple words and phrases. Most language schools and university programs do this, the benefit being that when they then introduce the Thai script you have a vocabulary already and, hopefully, some grasp on pronunciation.

Of course, you can get a head start by learning the consonants a few at a time. Becker's book Thai for Beginners does this well without confusing the issue and allows you to progress with learning words and phrases whilst you're doing it.

[meadish_sweetball]

It is certainly not a good idea to attempt the verbal side of the language in isolation from the Thai alphabet.

...unless you do it in a classroom setting with a Thai teacher that can use and teach a good transliteration scheme such as Mary Haas or AUA properly - they are more regular than Thai spelling, but they need to be learned in a proper setting unless you're already well acquainted with using IPA from learning other languages.

Otherwise there's a good chance they will just confuse you, especially if you are not familiar with assigning other sounds than those of your own language to the letters of the Latin alphabet since before.

The most important thing is that you learn the sounds of Thai first. Learning the alphabet without realizing what sound each letter represents is almost pointless and your speaking will be terrible if you just plough right in and start learning more words than you can pronounce.

I agree strongly with this. Learning the alphabet is great and a necessity for anyone who wants to study Thai seriously - but if you still mispronounce the sounds, learning it won't help you much with speaking.

[PeaceBlondie]

I bookmarked the Manee Reader by El Zorro, which puts sounds to the Thai letters. One question: are they pronouncing the sound itself, or the name of the letter?

[dvc]

I bookmarked the Manee Reader by El Zorro, which puts sounds to the Thai letters. One question: are they pronouncing the sound itself, or the name of the letter?

The sounds assigned to the consonants are the actual sound of the letter, not the name. Each consonant is pronounced with an "OR" sound added at the end for euphony. For example; in lesson one if you click on the letter ก written in phonetics as "GOR", the sound you will hear is just that, GOR. The "OR" part is left out when you pronounce the letter as part of a word. The sounds attached to the vowels are exactly the way they are pronounced when used in a word. Apart from a few exceptions ( ใ ไ อั ), the vowels don't have names, unlike the consonants which all have common names. When spelling a Thai word out loud, the word สระ (sa-ra) = vowel, is used before the vowel sound. EG: กิน = GOR GAI SA-RA I NOR NOO

[afalang]

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.
It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

Harcourt, can I ask you, are living in Thailand or New Zealand ? as your 'moniker' suggests.
I ask because this can make a big difference to your learning. In addition, are you planning to go live in Thailand at a later date ?
Everybody has different goals and objectives when it comes to learning. However, if you want to become really good at Thai, you
need to be proficient in speaking, reading and writing. How you get to that position can vary from person to person. For what its worth, and
maybe it helps you, here's how I got there...eventually !
I had visited thailand many times before i retired here. So I did have a smattering of words and phrases. I took a 13 week course
to learn how to read and write thai whilst I was working in Australia. Unfortunately I had forgotton most of it by the time I had retired to live here !! I got by using
phrase books and transliteration.... and a good memory
After a while, I stopped listening to people who told me reading and writing Thai is impossible.
I took a 5 week course at AUA learning to read and write Thai. After 4 weeks of toil and trouble I had a light-bulb moment
(rare at my age ) It opened up a whole new world and makes it so much easier with pronunciation. So much so that I did have
to re-learn a few words that I kept saying incorrectly. I just kept at it after that, I listen to thai songs and read the thai karaoke, with the
help of the pause button I was able to follow it. I also started a diary, and started writing words in Thai, which in time became
sentences. I also started using the Thai language on my mobile phone. Now i can read and send messages in Thai. What you
do find frustrating is being able to read the word, but not knowing the meaning !! I carry a small notebook and pencil with me everywhere.
When i see new words or signs, I write them down and look them up in the dictionary later.
I would recommend to anybody wanting to learn thai, to learn some words and phrases first and get a feel for the language. Then do not leave
it too long before learning to read and write. To start with don't worry too much about getting it wrong. There are plenty of people here ready
to help you get it right !

[meadish_sweetball]

I bookmarked the Manee Reader by El Zorro, which puts sounds to the Thai letters. One question: are they pronouncing the sound itself, or the name of the letter?

The sounds assigned to the consonants are the actual sound of the letter, not the name. Each consonant is pronounced with an "OR" sound added at the end for euphony. For example; in lesson one if you click on the letter ก written in phonetics as "GOR", the sound you will hear is just that, GOR. The "OR" part is left out when you pronounce the letter as part of a word. The sounds attached to the vowels are exactly the way they are pronounced when used in a word. Apart from a few exceptions ( ใ ไ อั ), the vowels don't have names, unlike the consonants which all have common names. When spelling a Thai word out loud, the word สระ (sa-ra) = vowel, is used before the vowel sound. EG: กิน = GOR GAI SA-RA I NOR NOO

Great explanation dvc - since PB is from the US of A, I would only add that GOR and NOR would probably make more sense to him as 'gaw' and 'naw' (when listening to the examples you will notice the vowel sound added after the sound of each consonant is fairly similar to the vowel sound in the Midwest US pronunciation of 'law' and has no actual 'r' sound at the end).

[noahvail]

Learn to read first. It's not that difficult, really. All those who keep repeating that reading Thai is almost impossible, that the Thai alphabet has so many consonants and vowels, etc. are just justifying themselves for not doing anything about their illiteracy problem. Learning to read Thai is not more difficult than learning to read any other language. Start with the Manee reader and keep at it. Learning a language is so much easier when you can read it.

ElZorro, the Manee Reader is just the ticket! I've been looking for a book that used the same principles as the old American primers, the Dick and Jane series. I've just done lesson one, and feels really good to have something stick for once! Many, many thanks for sending that along.

As I understand it, this used to be a Thai primer some 20 years ago, published by the government, but is now out of print. It has been reborn as an on-line series, with slow and accurate (i guess they're accurate, they should be since they're slow ones) pronounciations. Right from the first page, they start combining words and vowels to make small words, so you feel you've accomplished something other than rote work. Thanks again!

[LantaSchool]

Hi there

We’ve carried out a lot of research into the most effective way to learn Thai.

You mentioned trying to learn to speak from dictionaries and on-line resources – did any of those place a heavy emphasis on listening? Listening plays a major role... you need to be able to identify the tones. This may be difficult at first. But if you have some learning sources which provide you with some kind of visual assistance as well – such as hand movements indicating tones while they are being spoken – that will help.

Also – look for a resource where the words are conveyed in combination with actions... this will help you to think in Thai and digest the language far more than if you were calling on your memories traces from your native language to understand the meaning of a word. For example – learn the word smile, while you are smiling. Relate the word to an emotion or an action J, rather than the equivalent meaning in your native language.

Try to avoid translation as much as possible, and pick a resource that teaches you solely in the Thai language, conveying the meaning through actions and visuals...

Start by learning to understand some spoken Thai before learning to read. It is much easier to read words that you already know. Learn by listening, not by reading transliteration. Use transliteration only as memory aid of words that you already know the sound of.

Focus on recognising the tones of the words and practice pronunciation. Exaggerate the tones when you speak. Then imitate the tones in full sentences. When you come to grips with how to say the different tones you can go on to learn reading.

I hope that helps. You can find more useful tips on the most effective way to learn Thai – if you google “the most effective way to learn thai”. Good luck, and have fun!!!

[Harcourt]

afalang, I'm in NZ and hope to retire in Thai in a few years.

I've been using the AUA online site which I got from a thread here....wonderful to go through the alphabet with the audio!

I have an excellent dictionary, The Oxford English Thai Dictionary ($170 Whitcouls), which seems to have a much bigger vocabulary than ThaiLanguage.com, but of course, one needs to be able to read properly to use it.

ThaiLanguage is great for Thai to English, and has some audio and sentence examples which is very useful.

I wish you were my next door neighboure dvc, you come across as a very good teacher!

Meadish, you make a good point with nor and naw and Americinglish vs English pronunciation....another pitfall of transliteration.

Lanta School, I like your suggestions too. (And very clever of you also )

[Harcourt]

From the sponsored links at the top of this page...."software and learn Thai fast!www.Byki.com" ....any opinions on this?

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to dvs and neadish. GOR is not the sound on ElZorro, and I wonder why even a Cockney would transliterate it as GOR

The first 'consonant' on Manee sounds like 'aw' - which seems like a vowel, not a consonant. And a younger brother is not an uncle!

[dvc]

Thanks to dvs and neadish. GOR is not the sound on ElZorro, and I wonder why even a Cockney would transliterate it as GOR

The first 'consonant' on Manee sounds like 'aw' - which seems like a vowel, not a consonant. And a younger brother is not an uncle!

You're getting a little mixed up. In my previous post I referred to the letter ก ไก่ which is the second letter shown in lesson one of the Marnee Reader page. It's sound is GOR or GAW, whichever you prefer. The first letter on the page is อ อ่าง Whilst this letter is a consonant, it is also used as a vowel, hence the transliteration OR or AW. Aside from this one consonant, the OR or AW part really doesn't matter much as it's only added, (as previously stated), for euphony. So….ก ไก่ can be GOR GAI or GAW GAI or GAW GY. The important thing is that you pronounce it the same way as the Thai speaker. The Latin transliteration will only ever be a rough guide to pronunciation and never a substitute for learning the sounds of the consonants and vowels by imitating a native Thai speaker.

Edited August 5, 2009 by dvc

[dvc]

After a while, I stopped listening to people who told me reading and writing Thai is impossible.

You too? Strange isn't it? After hearing someone say this to me, (that a foreigner could never learn to read and write Thai), I reasoned to myself; there's more than 60 million people living in Thailand and better than 90% of them can read and write their own language. They can't all be rocket scientists can they? Then there are the Thais who don't believe you when you say you can read and write. On more than one occasion I've been asked to prove my ability. The nearest printed page is thrust in front of me to read; the reaction is either grudging acceptance or something akin to that of their being in the presence of a talking monkey.

I took a 5 week course at AUA learning to read and write Thai. After 4 weeks of toil and trouble I had a light-bulb moment

(rare at my age ) It opened up a whole new world and makes it so much easier with pronunciation. So much so that I did have

to re-learn a few words that I kept saying incorrectly.

I remember that happening for me too. It was at the point when I was learning the tone rules. One day, bling!, a light went on and suddenly everything made sense.

Edited August 6, 2009 by dvc

[ElZorro]

I didn't write the Manee reader myself, nor did I build the website. That credit should go to the Paknam Web Thailand group, Richard Barrow and some Thai teachers from the Sriwittayapaknam School who did the reading. There is another version of the Manee reader online, prepared by the Center for Southeast Asian Studies of the Northern Illinois University.

I am surprised that there are some people interested in learning Thai who didn't know about the Manee reader. Maybe some of you don't know about the excellent blog Women Learning Thai, where Catherine has been compiling resources and tips for learning Thai on and off-line.

[somchaiq]

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.

It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

How are kids learning???

The Baby start speaking something like daddy or mommy first. after soime years speaking they learn reading and writing in Kinder Garten. That is naturally the way in every country used. So why not doing it this way? I did it and it was working for me.

[meadish_sweetball]

There are many ways of acquiring a language, and people learn in slightly different ways, even as children, because we all have our strong and weak areas.

Personally I don't think it is possible to emulate the actual environment of a child for an adult, and apart from that, as adults, we generally have found our ways to shortcuts and alternative methods of learning, which can be quicker and more effective, or at any rate more motivating.

That being said, learning is a holistic process, and there are many skills involved in mastering a language and one is usually better at some than at others.

When you try to only listen, one problem for most adult learners of new languages is that our brain trick us into not hearing what is actually there, but rather what it tells you is important, based on the rules from our mother tongue or possibly any second or third languages we have learned.

This is why many foreigners will think that words with different tones are essentially 'the same word' even though they are not, because the tones are phonemic, and also why foreigners might get the idea that อื อึ are just variants of the same sound as อู อุ - while these are clearly distinct phonemes to Thais.

It is also why many Thais (and Swedes, for that matter) are unable to hear or produce the difference between the /s/ sound in 'rice' and the /z/ sound in 'rise'.

In contrast, a child listens without such prejudice. So while it is possible to do it that way, I think a combination of theory and practice right from the start is usually a better idea.

Exactly how the optimal language training should be constructed depends on the student's individual abilities and experiences.

[Harcourt]

There are many ways of acquiring a language, and people learn in slightly different ways, even as children, because we all have our strong and weak areas.

Personally I don't think it is possible to emulate the actual environment of a child for an adult, and apart from that, as adults, we generally have found our ways to shortcuts and alternative methods of learning, which can be quicker and more effective, or at any rate more motivating.

That being said, learning is a holistic process, and there are many skills involved in mastering a language and one is usually better at some than at others.

When you try to only listen, one problem for most adult learners of new languages is that our brain trick us into not hearing what is actually there, but rather what it tells you is important, based on the rules from our mother tongue or possibly any second or third languages we have learned.

This is why many foreigners will think that words with different tones are essentially 'the same word' even though they are not, because the tones are phonemic, and also why foreigners might get the idea that อื อึ are just variants of the same sound as อู อุ - while these are clearly distinct phonemes to Thais.

It is also why many Thais (and Swedes, for that matter) are unable to hear or produce the difference between the /s/ sound in 'rice' and the /z/ sound in 'rise'.

In contrast, a child listens without such prejudice. So while it is possible to do it that way, I think a combination of theory and practice right from the start is usually a better idea.

Exactly how the optimal language training should be constructed depends on the student's individual abilities and experiences.

This is a really good post.

I watched a documentary recently where they were studying language development. A very interesting study. For example, there are certain sounds in Hindi that adult Westeners just do not hear; we can not distinguish certain particular phonemes from another. But a child can.

They took some American children and played a recording of an Indian saying "dha"(1) and "dha"(2). No adult non-Hindi speaker could distinguish between dah 1 or 2. By producing a reward (a picture of a clown on a video screen) each time dah 1 was said, and no reward when dah 2 was spoken, the scientists proved that children under 2 years old could make the distinction. After a short learning period, each time dah 1 was played, the children would look at the screen hoping to see the clown, and each time dah 2 was played, they didn't bother.

It compliments Meadish's point about what we learn as children. The study I mentioned hypothesised that this ability in children is part of the brain's development. In the study, 5 year old English speaking children could not learn the difference between dah 1 and dah 2.

Westerners see this with even well educated people, eg Sri Lankans that always pronounce the f sound as "p" ("Wednesday, Thursday, Priday"), Indians that can not, no matter how hard they try to pronounce w it always comes out as v, etc. (Generalisation, of course)

I wonder if there are "inaudible" sounds in Thai, or "unpronouncable" sounds (to Western ears and tongues)?

Even though I consider myself fairly linguistic (English and 2 other languages), I struggle to pronounce some words to the satisfaction of my GF's ear!

Examples that I can't get my tongue around: เบื่อ , ตั้งชื่อ , and so on. Or is it just me?

[SoftWater]

You too? Strange isn't it? After hearing someone say this to me, (that a foreigner could never learn to read and write Thai), I reasoned to myself; there's more than 60 million people living in Thailand and better than 90% of them can read and write their own language. They can't all be rocket scientists can they? Then there are the Thais who don't believe you when you say you can read and write. On more than one occasion I've been asked to prove my ability. The nearest printed page is thrust in front of me to read; the reaction is either grudging acceptance or something akin to that of their being in the presence of a talking monkey.

I get this reaction too. It's very curious - when it comes to speaking, Thai people are almost always supportive, but mention reading and writing and I'm forever met with first, scepticism, and second, belligerance. Almost without exception, I am declared 'odd' (in the way that implies they don't believe me) when I tell people that I actually find reading and writing Thai far easier than speaking and listening.

Even Thais who are English teachers seem to take some convincing that learning to read and write a second language is easier than to speak it, despite the fact that they all (eventually) agree that they themselves can understand English easier when its written on the page (which allows time to analyse, look up, figure things out) than they can when it is merely spoken. I like to point out to them that when their students can't understand some new vocab, what is the first thing they do? Normally, they write it on the board.

The only explanation that I can come up with for this rather bizarre idea is that Thais assume you would have to go to school and learn to read and write by rote for many years as they did, and I guess if they think this is the only way to learn the written Thai language its not surprising that they don't believe foreigners would do this.

As it is, for adults (not children), we have a lot of extra conceptual resources to hand that allow us to learn abstract concepts much faster. I'd say you can teach yourself the alphabet and tone rules in about two weeks of daily study. I used a little red book available in most bookstores called 'Easy Thai' - I can't remember the author or the full title, but the book is very distinctive because it's got a bright pillar-box red cover, is very thin and only costs something like 180 baht -. (sorry, this is from memory, so might not be exactly accurate).

Once you've got the alpahbet and tone rules down, you've opened up a whole new world of learning. One of the best things at this stage is picking up new vocab by being able to read signs in supermarkets, on food packages, traffic signs and so on if you're in Thailand. If you're not, don't worry, there are plenty of sites on the 'net as detailed in this thread and others on TV where you can practice and develop your new found skill. I would say, though, youneed a good dictionary (probably more than one - i've got several and i'm always on the look out for more!) Get a good Thai-English and a good English-Thai (the Oxford one is by far the best of the latter).

[RickBradford]

The book is called 'Easy Thai, An Introduction to the Thai Language', and is by Gordon H Allison. Yes, pillar-box red cover, only 105 pages, see here.

I am in agreement that Thais generally dismiss our reading abilities.

I was recently sitting in a cafe battling with my copy of the Daily News, when I overheard an exchange between two female members of staff, which surprised me (mainly because it meant they had registered what I was doing, but then again I was the only customer).

Surly Waitress 1: "The farang is reading a Thai newspaper."

Surly Waitress 2: "Oh, he's just looking at the pictures."

[SoftWater]

The book is called 'Easy Thai, An Introduction to the Thai Language', and is by Gordon H Allison. Yes, pillar-box red cover, only 105 pages, see here.

I am in agreement that Thais generally dismiss our reading abilities.

I was recently sitting in a cafe battling with my copy of the Daily News, when I overheard an exchange between two female members of staff, which surprised me (mainly because it meant they had registered what I was doing, but then again I was the only customer).

Surly Waitress 1: "The farang is reading a Thai newspaper."

Surly Waitress 2: "Oh, he's just looking at the pictures."

Thanks Rick for the correct reference. To beginners, I would just add that the book is old but good, and as i said, it can be worked through fairly comprehensively in about two weeks. The description of it as an intro to "spoken thai" I would say is misleading, but it does do a good job of teaching you the alphabet. On reflection, I can't remember now how far it gets into the tone rules. For me, the clearest outline of tone rules is in David Smyth's little 'Teach Yourself Thai' book, which I used consecutively with Easy Thai. I recall struggling to follow the explanations of tone rules in other texts beforehand, but found Smyth very clear.

Rick, I loved this story about you reading the paper. I find that people will never be shy to make comments about me within earshot even when they know, or should be able to deudce (like if you're reading the paper or have just spoken to them in thai) that I can understand them. It's as if they don't connect the fact that you've just spoken to them in Thai with the fact that you can understand what they say when they talk about you!

Edited August 7, 2009 by SoftWater