The Real Thailand Vs Your Thailand

[Alwaysright]

I have the time and money$$$$ to live anywhere in the world?Why Thailand?I don't bother anybody and NOBODY bothers me.No real rules and regulations,I live like a big shot but I am not.Bangkok has everything I want without the b/s in western countries.I drink with the mafia, police and locals,I respect them and get the same respect in return.

My Thailand is the real Thailand.....unlike those other fellows

Everyone's experience will be different from everyoneelse's. All we can say is that we have a good/bad experience - me, superb.

Why? Because of my wife, village life, the serenity of Buddhism, the food, the countryside, the climate, the people and the whole shebang

Edited August 6, 2009 by Alwaysright

[caf]

My Thailand must exist in an alternate universe than the Thailand of many posters. I get excellent medical care, cheaply. Thais don't rob or assault me. Drivers understand motorcycles. When I crash, Thais help me. Police don't hassle me. I ride 125 kph on freeways. Being gay and the father of six straight kids seems almost normal.

People have different experiences

You've had good results with medical care; others have not.

Ian has posted many good pics on this thread, then you see the pics in the Thai newspapers of road accidents and murders

You read the scams, then you observe how helping the Thais can be.

It's a mix. Certainly the real thailand is outside the tourist areas and the expat moobahns but each to his own. Harcourt made a good post.

[beerchang]

I love it here. I fit in and there's less a*sholes to deal with (except on the roads!). I live in the beautiful countryside and never tire of the views. I can get a two hour massage for 80bht. I can 'sexy butt watch' . It's the real Thailand for me as I just take it all in as the Thais do. Not difficult.

[mauGR1]

I remember last of the year 2001,went to disco in Buriram with a Dutch guy just met on the street.When we entered,hundreds of faces were staring at us in disbelief,but after few minutes everybody were smiling and giggling at us dancing,and everyone were racing to offer us a drink or share their buckets,we had a tough job leaving the disco in the small hours,almost crawling through the floor.That was fun!

[gwynt]

Btw, here is what I look like incase you see me out on the town and want to buy me a shot of rye.

Hmm…the forehead is a bit too big for me, and I don’t like a smoker..I can see a ciggy there

Can’t see the bottom half well, for all I know it could look like a butterball.

Also…you do look a bit stuck-up, all-that!!…with the “SP” personality (judging from the pix and posts)……a bit turn off - for me.

Btw…not everyone is poor, and throwing ourselves at any first available farang we see. Many of us do have better pick among our own local boys…..better looking, loving, considerate, caring, not a butterfly, not full of themselves,…similar ages & socioeconomic…..etcs

There are plenty of them, single & available!!!

And

Ooh you would be quite surprised how many of us (both white and darker skin tone…also anything in between)…are much richer than a lot of farangs over here.

So don’t flatter yourself too much when in thailand…yeah

Those are also another side of the real Thailand, and want to pass them along

Just in case you don’t understand the local language well, and some looks you may be getting.

Well you did ask…about the real Thailand.

Just want to contribute something..

Well put From a Thai perspective. I currently live near Pattaya, only because of work, but consider my home to be Loei.

I work with Thais and as you say the large percentage are not available to foriegners and a he*l of a lot of Thais are far wealthier than many of the farrangs on this forum. Most of my good friends are Thai from various social standing my farrang friends are long time married to Thais so are very much comsidered "locals". I love Thailand and will at my ultimate demise be cremated here so i'm going nowhere.

[Gaccha]

There is always talk in these types of web communities from expats who have obtained a higher knowledge of Thailand and Thai people than the other foreigners living here via the discovery of what is commonly referred to as 'The Real Thailand'.

I thought it would be interesting to hear what everyone's Thailand is. My Thailand is not very different from my America. Its primarily based on the consumption of food and women. I do not have much, if any, desire to form emotional or spiritual friendships with Thai people beyond my spouse. The best things about Thailand to me, are that everything is cheap, everyone is shorter than I am, the locals are subservient, you don't have to worry about getting robbed or attacked if you don't go looking for it, everywhere you go there are establishments setup for the purpose of male relaxation and they do a very good job at providing that service, the food is delicious, I do not have any problems communicating what I need to communicate to the locals while at the same time not being burdened by knowing what anyone else is saying. I love the fact that everyone smiles so much, the girls are so pretty and available and that everyone is so poor. I love that I do not have to work hard at all to live an awesome, worry free life style here.

What is your Thailand?

Well, Mr Draper, let me conceptualise this a bit to advance the discussion beyond "this is the real Thailand", "no, this is the real Thailand", "no this...".

Your positioning is a kind of reverse snobbery. You are proud of your lack of cosmopolitanism (I wonder if you are working class origins?). Other posters have picked up on the equal lack of any sense of the cosmopolitan by tourists, whether they are backpackers or 5 star hotel residents-- there is a sense of a staged authenticity about it. The backpackers may seek a more genuine Thailand (by living rough, not taking staged photos) but their priority of enjoyment means they never find it. As you have noticed, it can take pain or boredom to find the real place, the real Other.

So where is the real Thailand? Mr Forbes intimates with his pictures that it is to be found in the simple country life: the dog scratching, the children playing in the river, the old lady selling fruits. But that is simply romantic imagery (that not only Westerners but Thais also have).

You must go deep to find the real place. Simply speaking the language is not enough. You must be prepared to not only consume the culture but produce the culture. It requires building a slick ability to go between your culture (the Western World dominant) to the local and back. This will be boring, may be met with hostility and feel deeply unrewarding. But it can be done.

Most people will not be able to truly shift into the other culture. Almost all of us need our home comforts (newspapers, English breakfast...) but many of us can act cosmopolitan and glide easily between the two socionormative regimes.

I want to distinguish this ability to casually move between cultural norms from the businessman who works and flys around the globe. They are the metropolitan mobiles, but they are certainly not cosmopolitan. They have only a very fake, superficial contact with the local culture, as they stay in their penthouse with their housemaid, swimming pool, and hang around with their expat friends;their life is the most banal and parochial of them all.

A Thai who has never travelled abroad can get quite cosmopolitan; think, if we must, of the bar girls. They must develop considerable adeptness in working around the map of the Western culture in order to extract the most cash out of you (not me).

[phutoie2]

I learned a lot about Thailand from this fella, married one of his daughters.

Aged 74 (we think!) and still working the fields.

[barrybankruad]

OH YES! You have pictured the REAL Thailand perfectly without having to add a word! Well done!

[Gaccha]

OH YES! You have pictured the REAL Thailand perfectly without having to add a word! Well done!

Eh, no he hasn't. Read my post above. No more than a duck pond in a village green is the real (sorry, 'REAL') England.

[IanForbes]

OH YES! You have pictured the REAL Thailand perfectly without having to add a word! Well done!

Eh, no he hasn't. Read my post above. No more than a duck pond in a village green is the real (sorry, 'REAL') England.

I don't diagree with you, Gaccha, I just don't have any pictures available of the business world of Bangkok offices and all the bustling people who go to make up the glut and stench of a huge city. As you point out, the "REAL" any country is made up of mosaic of many things.

[Birdman]

Once, 25 years ago, I travelled 1 year in Thailand. In this year I rented a poor corrugated-iron shack in a Bangkok slum. Why? To get away from normality lived all my life as a wealthy Westerner. It was the best experience I made.

It was not perfect, 'cause even I lived same like everyone around me at the slum, money would not have been an issue for me in case..., but the warmness I experienced from that slum community stays in my heart until now and forever...

[mauGR1]

OH YES! You have pictured the REAL Thailand perfectly without having to add a word! Well done!

Eh, no he hasn't. Read my post above. No more than a duck pond in a village green is the real (sorry, 'REAL') England.

So,Gaccha assuming that is impossible to represent the real Thailand in a few pictures,would you care to explain what is the real Thailand?

IMO the "real Thailand" (or any other country or place on this Planet)is something not really existing,but in the mind of each individual who cares to look for.

I.E. you can ask a thousand Thais what is the real Thailand,you will probably get a thousand different answers.

Or not?

PS i really like Ian pics

[bojo]

Once, 25 years ago, I travelled 1 year in Thailand. In this year I rented a poor corrugated-iron shack in a Bangkok slum. Why? To get away from normality lived all my life as a wealthy Westerner. It was the best experience I made.

It was not perfect, 'cause even I lived same like everyone around me at the slum, money would not have been an issue for me in case..., but the warmness I experienced from that slum community stays in my heart until now and forever...

This reminds me of 'Shantaram' with the exception that he was on the run from the law, not western normality. A great book for those who haven't read it.

Regards Bojo

[doodee]

its like looking in the rear view mirror in a motorcycle race and seeing that 90% of your competition is on foot and that your children will inherit your same good fortune. my kids will be internationally schooled while all the other kids are singing nation songs in their gov funded classroom.

Now that doesnt sound like the real Thailand,that sounds like nepatism.

You dont want your kids to grow up in the real Thailand then?????

[doodee]

OH YES! You have pictured the REAL Thailand perfectly without having to add a word! Well done!

Eh, no he hasn't. Read my post above. No more than a duck pond in a village green is the real (sorry, 'REAL') England.

THE REAL THAILAND,

You are in cuckoo land,i thought that was the dark side,which is 5 k from Pattaya central.

[dondraper]

its like looking in the rear view mirror in a motorcycle race and seeing that 90% of your competition is on foot and that your children will inherit your same good fortune. my kids will be internationally schooled while all the other kids are singing nation songs in their gov funded classroom.

Now that doesnt sound like the real Thailand,that sounds like nepatism.

You dont want your kids to grow up in the real Thailand then?????

So the Thai children who go to International Schools are not real Thais?

[Gaccha]

OH YES! You have pictured the REAL Thailand perfectly without having to add a word! Well done!

Eh, no he hasn't. Read my post above. No more than a duck pond in a village green is the real (sorry, 'REAL') England.

So,Gaccha assuming that is impossible to represent the real Thailand in a few pictures,would you care to explain what is the real Thailand?

IMO the "real Thailand" (or any other country or place on this Planet)is something not really existing,but in the mind of each individual who cares to look for.

I.E. you can ask a thousand Thais what is the real Thailand,you will probably get a thousand different answers.

Or not?

PS i really like Ian pics

The one hundred million dollar question. Obviously it is not a material truth. I cannot find it in photos, although poses in photos, or quizzical looks may offer the chance to grasp at it.

It is clearly in the persons' minds. Although I reject your (positivist) notion that if it is only in a person's mind then it is not 'real' (let me digress to explain this: how do you know that which you claim to know? When you look at China do you see it as more of a threat to the World than the US? To answer this would you add up the number of tanks they have, look at the designs of their nukes and calculate the greatest danger. I think not. You would try to work out the ideas they have. How aggressive they are, how they feel about themselves. In other words, the only reality is the ideas people have, the material is irrelevant [the reversal of your position]).

So how do we discover this reality. Obviously asking people what it is will not work. it is the ideational realtionships they have with Others that makes this reality. How they know how to behave, what they expect of Others, define what it is to be Thai. They define themselves by saying what they are not; in olden times this was the hated Burmese, in modern times it is the Farang.

As Farang we catch glimpses of this constantly changing and challenged narrative of Thainess. We find it difficult to follow as we are not completely submerged within and when confronted by a dissonance with are own culture we will try to resolve this dissonance by a rational explanation on our own terms, e.g. claim it is TiT.

As an example a dominant narrative is to be Thai is to be democratic. Another narrative is the idea of a land of no violence. You will readily spot that the facts as we known them often do not immediatley back up the narrative of the identity.

The idea of Thainess obviously is a faked concept (just as so is Englishness). The nation-state needs to instill this concept to ensure harmony. It does this through education at schools or in Thailand's case, the 'Village Scout' movement was used agggressively in Issan to force a sense of Thainess. The most nationalistic Thais you will meet are from Issan, yet Issan was a serious trouble spot in the late 1960s and 1970s. The Village Scouts did their job well.

So I like photos that present ideas, rather than scenes. They reveal truths, not colours.

[dondraper]

Btw…not everyone is poor, and throwing ourselves at any first available farang we see. Many of us do have better pick among our own local boys…..better looking, loving, considerate, caring, not a butterfly, not full of themselves,…similar ages & socioeconomic…..etcs

There are plenty of them, single & available!!!

And

Ooh you would be quite surprised how many of us (both white and darker skin tone…also anything in between)…are much richer than a lot of farangs over here.

White Skin, Height, Top .001% of earners for my age bracket. Its not a Thai/Farang thing. Sure, there will always be people richer taller or prettier than you. My point, really, is that Thailand is like an all you can eat buffet. Imagine how hard one would have to work in England or Japan to become a top .001% earner in their age bracket? Living in Thailand is like being able to use the cheat codes in a video game.

I am happy for you that you have your pick of handsome, rich, faithful Thai men to choose from and are not interested in infidels like moi.

Those are also another side of the real Thailand, and want to pass them along

Just in case you don't understand the local language well, and some looks you may be getting.

Are you talking about those people handing out advertisement brochures?

[bojo]

its like looking in the rear view mirror in a motorcycle race and seeing that 90% of your competition is on foot and that your children will inherit your same good fortune. my kids will be internationally schooled while all the other kids are singing nation songs in their gov funded classroom.

Now that doesnt sound like the real Thailand,that sounds like nepatism.

You dont want your kids to grow up in the real Thailand then?????

So the Thai children who go to International Schools are not real Thais?

I'd say that kids that go to Thai schools have more 'Thainess' about them than those who go to international schools. I think most would agree with that. Born and bred in Thailand= real Thai,( depending on one's definition of the saying), just some parents would prefer their kids to experience an education/lifestyle at school not that dissimilar from a western one and I suspect at the back of their minds those parents consider the possibilty of their child either living in the west or furthering their education abroad at a later stage. I know I do.

Regards Bojo

[dcfc2007]

my thailand is hopefully one day going to be my home, i love it so much.

through the work that i do in thailand i have been lucky enough to experience one of the beautiful sides of thailand and that is the sense of love and happiness thai people have. i have been able to make friends from all over thailand, burma and cambodia and although many of these men, women and children have since went home and i have been lucky enough to visit some of them in chang mai, sisaket, chonburi and burma.

through the work that i do i have also been able to meet some amazing foregin visitors to thailand men and women that do amazing work in their home country and come out to thailand to share their genuine love.

real thailand for me is that women who fed me for free on koh larn when i had forgotten my money, it was the people in chonburi that looked after me when i got dengue fever, it was the burmese immigrants that spared me a lift in mae sot and it is the loving feeling i get from my friends and family when i go back out each year.

not the greedy taxi drivers and scammers.

[Birdman]

Btw…not everyone is poor, and throwing ourselves at any first available farang we see. Many of us do have better pick among our own local boys…..better looking, loving, considerate, caring, not a butterfly, not full of themselves,…similar ages & socioeconomic…..etcs

There are plenty of them, single & available!!!

And

Ooh you would be quite surprised how many of us (both white and darker skin tone…also anything in between)…are much richer than a lot of farangs over here.

White Skin, Height, Top .001% of earners for my age bracket. Its not a Thai/Farang thing. Sure, there will always be people richer taller or prettier than you. My point, really, is that Thailand is like an all you can eat buffet. Imagine how hard one would have to work in England or Japan to become a top .001% earner in their age bracket? Living in Thailand is like being able to use the cheat codes in a video game.

I am happy for you that you have your pick of handsome, rich, faithful Thai men to choose from and are not interested in infidels like moi.

Those are also another side of the real Thailand, and want to pass them along

Just in case you don't understand the local language well, and some looks you may be getting.

Are you talking about those people handing out advertisement brochures?

2+2=4, but that does not make one an Einstein. In some cases not even a fool...rather a charlatan...

[bojo]

my thailand is hopefully one day going to be my home, i love it so much.

through the work that i do in thailand i have been lucky enough to experience one of the beautiful sides of thailand and that is the sense of love and happiness thai people have. i have been able to make friends from all over thailand, burma and cambodia and although many of these men, women and children have since went home and i have been lucky enough to visit some of them in chang mai, sisaket, chonburi and burma.

through the work that i do i have also been able to meet some amazing foregin visitors to thailand men and women that do amazing work in their home country and come out to thailand to share their genuine love.

real thailand for me is that women who fed me for free on koh larn when i had forgotten my money, it was the people in chonburi that looked after me when i got dengue fever, it was the burmese immigrants that spared me a lift in mae sot and it is the loving feeling i get from my friends and family when i go back out each year.

not the greedy taxi drivers and scammers.

How lucky and pragmatic you are to admire Thailand in such a way. I wish I had your ability, your vision of Thailand truely sums up how most foreigners, I imagine, would like to remember our stay here.

regards Bojo

[dondraper]

Once, 25 years ago, I travelled 1 year in Thailand. In this year I rented a poor corrugated-iron shack in a Bangkok slum. Why? To get away from normality lived all my life as a wealthy Westerner. It was the best experience I made.

It was not perfect, 'cause even I lived same like everyone around me at the slum, money would not have been an issue for me in case..., but the warmness I experienced from that slum community stays in my heart until now and forever...

...not to mention your achieved wisdom/spiritual awakening in the slum.

Edited August 6, 2009 by dondraper

[mauGR1]

ideational realtionships[/i] they have with Others that makes this reality. How they know how to behave, what they expect of Others, define what it is to be Thai. They define themselves by saying what they are not; in olden times this was the hated Burmese, in modern times it is the Farang.

As Farang we catch glimpses of this constantly changing and challenged narrative of Thainess. We find it difficult to follow as we are not completely submerged within and when confronted by a dissonance with are own culture we will try to resolve this dissonance by a rational explanation on our own terms, e.g. claim it is TiT.

As an example a dominant narrative is to be Thai is to be democratic. Another narrative is the idea of a land of no violence. You will readily spot that the facts as we known them often do not immediatley back up the narrative of the identity.

The idea of Thainess obviously is a faked concept (just as so is Englishness). The nation-state needs to instill this concept to ensure harmony. It does this through education at schools or in Thailand's case, the 'Village Scout' movement was used agggressively in Issan to force a sense of Thainess. The most nationalistic Thais you will meet are from Issan, yet Issan was a serious trouble spot in the late 1960s and 1970s. The Village Scouts did their job well.

So I like photos that present ideas, rather than scenes. They reveal truths, not colours.

Thanks Gaccha for taking the time to answer,i must say i agree very much with what you say

Sorry for cutting your good post,i left out the philosophical part which is not Thailand related,i almost agree on that too!

[cobra]

You can say you see Thailand differently if you are a millionaire, rich funded, or backpacker. So everybody has different views. If your rich, you have never lived like the poor, and the other way around.

Good point,

How we see and interact with a local enviroment will always be cailbrated to one's status and wealth.

[marsteele]

OP, ".....I love the fact........that everyone is so poor..". I'm not sure how to take that, but regardless, this is an interesting topic.

I met my GF on the internet years ago. When I finally flew to BKK, she drove 5 hours to pick me up, then took me around the country in her car.

I've never been a "tourist" type of tourist and always prefer to get off the beaten track. It was unavoidable at times to go to the tourist hot-spots (a night or two on Koh Chang and a night in Pattaya on the way back to BKK, a few days in BKK etc) and the difference between the touristy places and the non-tourist places was significant.

It's not just that the "real" places didn't have the two-price system or sleazy-looking sex tourists holding hands with minors (I was shocked in Pattaya!), it was the genuiness of the people.

There was also the novelty of people pointing, "Farang, farang!"...funny that. I got into the habit of it myself whenever we were in a small 99.99% Thai town and saw another white man, hehe.

I can't say that I'm an experienced Siamophile, but I do love the Thailand unsullied by foreign values, interference, and sleaze.

Some pleasant memories wandering on my own while the GF attended to the family business:

Walking past a group of old men sitting on the sidewalk playing maak rook. Seeing the open jawed suprise of a shopkeeper when I walked into a shop selling traditional Thai instruments (What's HE doing here???). The amusement of the bystanders when I unthinkingly asked a samlor to take me somewhere (I'm not fat, but at 85 kg I was a burden...I felt guilty afterwards...the tip must have made it worth it for him though ). Once I stopped and asked a group of school kids for directions to an internet cafe...they pointed and tried to explain. I took off in the direction, but inadvertantly walked right past the cafe....the kids must have been watching me, because one of them ran after me and took me back to the right place....kind and considerate. Outside a bar at closing time there was a fight...some strangers who had been talking to me insisted that I don't go and look, probably for my own safety. I went to Mae Sot with GF's brother to deliver 2500 dozen eggs, what a white-knuckled drive that was! Meeting Burmese workers, drinking beer with the locals. Locals shouting me beers at 7 am at a street vendor's bbq because of the novelty to them of a farang eating the extra spicy sauce they had. Asking a waiter to take my bottle of Johnny Walker over to the only other occupied table in the restaurant and then joining the group of soccer players for alot of spontaneous laughter as none could speak English very well, and I only had a small phrase book. Another night, being taken home (my GF's home...they were giving me a lift only) by 2 drunk katoys on one motorbike...that was scary...all 3 of us drunk and on a small bike.....it must have been hilarious to any onlookers.....gosh I could go on. Very pleasant reminisces of non-tourist Thailand.

Yes I agree 100% Places like Pattaya are nothing like Thailand. Pattaya is modeled on western society and caters for farangs. These people who go to Pattaya will return home and tell thier experiences of visiting another country and meeting the people. "Went to Thailand sat on a bar stool, drank the local whiskey, didn't have to venture out as the locals are so friendly the women come to me in the bar. The pizza, KFC and McDonalds in Thailand is good."

[IanForbes]

So I like photos that present ideas, rather than scenes. They reveal truths, not colours.

Interesting concept. How do you reveal truths in a photo? I could show the same photo to 100 different people and there would be at least 25 different answers if I asked what the picture represented to them. Impressionistic and abstract artists have tried doing that with paintings for years. In some cases it's just a joke to sell crap to the avante guard types, but in others there is a message in their art.

To me, innocent, poor children playing in a local river is a form of truth. They haven't been spoiled and manipulated by what life has to offer later. And old lady sewing with reading glasses bought in some market reveals the truth that we all need to survive somehow in a modern world. Your description of a row of tanks or military force can be tossed off as just a big show, or it could reveal something deeper in the makeup of a country and its leadership. Two people can attend the same event at the same time and come away with two entirely different viewpoints. It's the same with photos. Very few photos actually capture a wistful suggestion of what might be going on behind the eyes of a subject.

The OP's topic was what is Thailand to each individual willing to respond to the question. I've just shown a few of mine in words and pictures. Yes, many things we experience ARE superficial, but the more we experience the closer we get to the truth... whatever that is.

[dondraper]

I reject the notion that deprivation is superior to consumption. Where did this silly modern idea come from?

Edited August 6, 2009 by dondraper

[IanForbes]

Yes I agree 100% Places like Pattaya are nothing like Thailand. Pattaya is modeled on western society and caters for farangs. These people who go to Pattaya will return home and tell thier experiences of visiting another country and meeting the people. "Went to Thailand sat on a bar stool, drank the local whiskey, didn't have to venture out as the locals are so friendly the women come to me in the bar. The pizza, KFC and McDonalds in Thailand is good."

I disagree, Pattaya is UNIQUE to Thailand. There are very few other places like it in the world... if any. But, is it the ONLY example of Thailand? Of course not, but it is part of a mosaic that makes up the entire country. Comparing Pattaya to Sakhon Nakhon or Ayutthaya is like comparing chalk and cheese.

Unfortunately, the news makers of the world like to portray the seedier part of life because it sells, and in that degree they are successful in their portrayal of Thailand. Everyone in countries outside Thailand hear of the sex tourism business and very little else, and yet that is just a miniscule part of a wonderful country. In Canada and the USA it is just as bad, if not worse. It's only different because North Americans are hypocrites about it.

[dcfc2007]

my thailand is hopefully one day going to be my home, i love it so much.

through the work that i do in thailand i have been lucky enough to experience one of the beautiful sides of thailand and that is the sense of love and happiness thai people have. i have been able to make friends from all over thailand, burma and cambodia and although many of these men, women and children have since went home and i have been lucky enough to visit some of them in chang mai, sisaket, chonburi and burma.

through the work that i do i have also been able to meet some amazing foregin visitors to thailand men and women that do amazing work in their home country and come out to thailand to share their genuine love.

real thailand for me is that women who fed me for free on koh larn when i had forgotten my money, it was the people in chonburi that looked after me when i got dengue fever, it was the burmese immigrants that spared me a lift in mae sot and it is the loving feeling i get from my friends and family when i go back out each year.

not the greedy taxi drivers and scammers.

How lucky and pragmatic you are to admire Thailand in such a way. I wish I had your ability, your vision of Thailand truely sums up how most foreigners, I imagine, would like to remember our stay here.

regards Bojo

i have also seen a very ugly side to thailand, i have had people who i thought were my friends betray me for the sake of money and i have been ripped off a few times but i try to shake it off and see the beautiful side of thailand.

as a wise elderly thai lady taught me, if it sounds too good to be true then it is.