Time Share Touts

[Theyreallrubbish]

I went to one of these presentations in Patong. I was just curious to see for myself what the pressure was like and also thought it would be entertaining to watch the salesmen squirm. Just to be safe in case they used drugs on me, I did not carry any credit card. The first salesman was exceedingly handsome. He realized fairly quickly I was a dud prospect and passed me off to a more senior fat bald guy. I won't be going again. They really ought to qualify their "prize winners" better!

I did exactly the same in Pattaya. Thought I'd see how it all works after being accosted to do a survey so many times.

There was large hotel banquet hall full of tables and most of the tables were occupied so the touts were certainly doing their job.

I got the smooth guy initially and he quickly passed me on to an older, somewhat depressed, English chap.

He started his spiel and I listened politely for a while and when he asked if this sounded good to me I told him I had a lot of experience in real estate and just came along to kill some time and see how it was all run.

He then started asking me to review his sales style and asked for advice on how better to sell!

I gave him some advice, (standard Dale Carnegie stuff, so I hope I didn't create a monster) then he thanked me and said I could still have the prize (which was a stay in one of their resorts if I remember correctly) and the free food, but I decided to leave as it was all a bit depressing and seedy.

[Boo]

Deleted posts being rude & flaming other posters. If you disagree with another posters career choice then disagree in a civil manner

[cdnvic]

So do they have WPs? It's bad enough with the local touts without these pests making nuisances of themselves.

These are often guys making their last desperate bid to find a way to remain in the country. They arrived with more dreams then plans and the final chapter is no surprise. Most of them are on the plane home not to long after.

[geriatrickid]

I have been solicited far too many times now too remember the exact number. The last timeI politely asked the chunky english woman if she felt bad peddling her garbage and phoney pleasantries. I had my best low key voice going when I asked her how'd she'd feel if some kid tried to sell stuff like this to her granny. She lost it and out of her mouth came one of the foulest tirades ever. I got to see the real person, that's for sure. These touts do the job because that's all they can do. Uneducated, unskilled and usually without any conscience.

Here's the bottom line, if these places are that good, why do they need to hire low end kids to push their stuff? if it's as good as they say, it would be flying off the developers books. I don't recall the Laguna development resorting to hiring slackjawed kids to chase down hapless tourists in order to sell their units. Anyone that needs to sell their "exclusive" units via touts obviously isn't going to attract the brightest of people, but maybe that's the point.

[stevenl]

Hello. I am an OPC in kata and patong sometimes. I have been doing this job for over a year. I think that i dont annoy tourists too much if they say no i say thanks! and ride away.

And what do you tell them: hello, I'm doing a survey? or Hello, I'm trying to sell you a timeshare?

[chuppachops]

@ geriatrickid, i had a skilled job back home working nightshifts as an engineer and i have a good education actually.

@ stevenl, when i approach people i ask them if they have a second, if they say sure.. then i tell them about our promotion offer them tickets to shows or a scratchcard to come to out presentation.

Im not rude in any way if they say no thats fine.. no problem

Im legal here have a workpermit which is more than most teachers and other types have.

best wishes to all.

[stevenl]

@ stevenl, when i approach people i ask them if they have a second, if they say sure.. then i tell them about our promotion offer them tickets to shows or a scratchcard to come to out presentation.

Sounds honest to me, I have no problems with that (I presume that includes telling them you're selling a time share and that the presentation is about selling them timeshare). I still don't like the way that is being sold, just as I don't like the tailors, but it is honest.

What happened in front of my shop was different though, because when I told the tourists it was a timeshare, the seller accused me of stealing. So obviously he did not tell, and that is IMO scamming.

[chuppachops]

I think 90% of people know its a holiday club or timeshare type presentation. They mostly go in for something to do, or for the elephant trecking tickets/prize what ever they are promised. Or just because they like me and want to do me a favour.

I tell them its a holiday club and that they dont have to join to get their promised gift. They can walk out anytime they like which some of them do anyway. But also a lot of people are joining when they see the benefits of being in the club compared to booking via travel agents.

Its a fun job, good money, legal work here. i love it.

thats all from me on the subject. we arnt all bad eggs although there are some!

[stevenl]

So you avoid the word 'timeshare', possibly because it has a negative meaning? But still, it is 'timeshare'.

[chuppachops]

As said before, first are the scratch cards or tourist survey on the beach. Big win and paid transfer to Patong.

At the start it's mostly nice talk about the time share hotels. Nothing wrong with that. But when the tourists are not interested, the pressure will rise. The touts are asking credit card number and trying to pressure the customers to sign papers etc. Not letting them to get back (even as they have promised taxi back to Kata/Karon). After the pressure time, they usually pay the taxi back anyway.

The taxi deal doesn't sound much for the people who are living in Phuket. But it's a big uncertainty for the tourists who are spending their vacation on other beaches and who are not familiar traveling in Phuket. This is all well known by the touts and they are using the taxi ride to keep the pressure on.

For the business owners, who have these touts in the front of your businesses. Next time when they the touts show up and have customers. Why don't you just go to talk with the tourists and 'rescue' them from the touts to your own shop.

You are wrong , we dont ask for and credit card details, they dont even have to show they have one.. if they want to buy then they get the card out. We dont put pressure on them in the taxi they come of their own free will. If they dont like it they can go at any time!

Oh and our resort is in Kata so your wrong there too.

[loubrockbank]

So you avoid the word 'timeshare', possibly because it has a negative meaning? But still, it is 'timeshare'.

Does it matter? The word timeshare is about as 80's as perms and pop socks and has the same stigma. These holiday clubs guarantee a 4/5 star hotel/apartment. Yes you may struggle to get your weeks, but they can be banked. And used all over the world. So say an Aussie wanted to come to Phuket then to Nepal then to Mexico. No shanty huts just top quality hotels.

The reason alot of people hate the touts is they are uneducated about FRACTIONAL OWNERSHIP (its modern day title) and that is what the presentation is about really. Only adults are targeted and surely they can say No anytime they like. Whether that is before, during, or at the end.

It is only a form of selling. The OP does it in his shop, tailors do it, 7/11's do it. Just all in different ways. Buying and selling stuff makes the world go around, so just try and have an open mind

Some of these Aussie tourists spend $8-10,000 a shot at coming to Phuket (Patong) every year. Surely having a decent apartment/hotel is a wise investment. They might not have the money to buy a luxury villa on the mountain side, like all of you make out, but prefer to not get shoved into a guest house that 'looked' great on the internet.

All of the above is in MY opinion, and having worked there, I'd say its a dam_n site more factual than most of the sweeping generalisations in this thread.

[kamelot]

You are wrong , we dont ask for and credit card details, they dont even have to show they have one.. if they want to buy then they get the card out. We dont put pressure on them in the taxi they come of their own free will. If they dont like it they can go at any time!

Oh and our resort is in Kata so your wrong there too.

Hi

your ompany have a resort in Kata,i have a friend that has been looking to buy a Timeshare there..what is the name of the resort?and what exchange company do you use?is it a 30 year agreement?

Thanks

[bino]

So you avoid the word 'timeshare', possibly because it has a negative meaning? But still, it is 'timeshare'.

No, it isn't. It's a vacation club.

Timeshare is something totally different. It usually involves buying a "week" of time in a resort that can be "fixed" - same week every year, or "floating" in that it is interchangeable to any other week of the year.

Vacation clubs don't involve actually owning anything. Almost every major hotel chain like Marriot, Hilton, Ritz Carlton has them. Why? Simple. People buy them and use them. Most of them offer connections to airline frequent flyer programs, fine dining discounts and a lot more. Try it for yourself - search for any major hotel name followed by "vacation club", and you will find a website.

Years ago, I was also an OPC, and had the time of my life. Living and working in ski resorts, busy Caribbean cruise ship ports, and many other places around the world. I was good at it, and was made a lot of money. I'd follow the busy seasons and go where there was money to be made. It is true that it isn't a job for everyone... it does take a certain amount of "moxie" that some people just don't have, and a certain amount of indifference to the people who have preconcieved notions, small minds, or just enjoy being rude.

In the case of people who are at the end of their resources in Thailand and trying to become an OPC, only a small amount will succeed. They probably tried teaching English first, and if they couldn't do that, they probably wouldn't have what it takes to be an OPC. They are both similar in the sense that both jobs involve being a "performer". Furthermore, OPC can be tough for someone because it is paid on commission basis only- no ups, no pay. Lots of people can't deal with that, and need the security of a regular paycheck.

I'm also an owner- I own a week in one of the resorts that I worked at in the Caribbean. I haven't been back there for more than a decade, but get my use out of it every year by trading it for any of thousands of resorts around the world. No regrets at all- it continues to be a great deal. I'm entitled to a two bedroom unit, which will have kitchen facilites. This is a h*ll of a lot nicer than a hotel room, and substantially cheaper!

Those of you who choose to decry the vacation ownership / vacation club / timeshare industry, that's fine. Every OPC and TS Salesperson knows that it is a numbers game... gotta take a certain number of no's to get a yes.

And, they all know that there is an a-hole in every crowd.

[neverdie]

So only 'some' of the opc's run around threatening to break peoples jaws? ...albiet using the very brave method via the internet

Edited August 8, 2009 by neverdie

[paulfromphuket]

Deleted posts being rude & flaming other posters. If you disagree with another posters career choice then disagree in a civil manner

Time share touts, or any other touts are vermin plain and simple.

NOT my words, Thanks philharris.

I was I think a little more friendly but must have been reported. must make time to waste some timeshare touts time soon

[stevenl]

Does it matter? The word timeshare is about as 80's as perms and pop socks and has the same stigma.

Loubrockbank, you're right, it doesn't really matter.

It is only a form of selling. The OP does it in his shop, tailors do it, 7/11's do it. Just all in different ways. Buying and selling stuff makes the world go around, so just try and have an open mind smile.gif

Yes, it is all selling, but some of the sales are done in a friendly manner, and some in a very aggressive way, which makes me resist them very much.

While I don't agree with some of your ideas, I do appreciate your input here in this thread.

[smartecosse]

@ geriatrickid, i had a skilled job back home working nightshifts as an engineer and i have a good education actually.

@ stevenl, when i approach people i ask them if they have a second, if they say sure.. then i tell them about our promotion offer them tickets to shows or a scratchcard to come to out presentation.

Im not rude in any way if they say no thats fine.. no problem

Im legal here have a workpermit which is more than most teachers and other types have.

best wishes to all.

So does the work permit state that you can actually do the job that you do, ie touting or does it say that you are an office manager etc etc..........

Pretty sure that its the latter as the "job" that you are doing is prohibited under thai law to foreigners.

I am sure that you make a good living and are honest and up front with the customers.

HOWEVER, this is not the case with the vast majority of those that work at this, for every talented person that can easily sell there are many many more that tells lies and are deceitful to get people there.

[Ossies]

From family experience going back many years my understanding is that once you buy your timeshare or whatever you want to call it, there is then an annual service charge which not surprisingly increases year after year.

As a result it no longer makes sense as a financial investment and in my parents case they just walked away in the end as the promises at the outset that you can sell it on just does not happen in reality.

Maybe things have changed but thought I would add the 'annual service charge' angle as a reason why it may not be a good investment.

[harleyclarkey]

Aach position I held as either OPC or Rep came with a legal WP, so the above statement incorrect.

It was clear from your previous post, because of your rant and threats, that you are/were an OPC or even a "Rep" as you put it. Now you admit it.

You know, as well as the dogs in the street, darn well what you are doing and that it is a scam. You doing your little act on the side is a con and only helping to scam people.

Edited August 9, 2009 by harleyclarkey

[geriatrickid]

@ geriatrickid, i had a skilled job back home working nightshifts as an engineer and i have a good education actually.

Ok, let me make sure I understand this correctly, you were an engineer, as in someone that went through 4 years of university and completed the basic university requirements for an engineering diploma and then you passed the exams in order to become a member of your nation's professional order and then walked away from all of that to sell time shares?

Wow.

Unless you aren't really an engineer but had the type of job where people like to call themselves something they are not. Sort of like, when I clean up the dog's droppings from the yard, I'm a sanitation engineer. And herein is a revealing facet of the character of a time-share salesperson: The blurring of important details. It is misleading. It's like a book keeper that calls her or himself an accountant.

Nitpicking? Nope, as it gets to the heart of the subject. The typical timeshare touton a scooter in Thailand is fundamentally dishonest. Maybe it's not always intentional, but these are people that think in terms of instant gratification, are selfish and demonstrate no empathy to their victims/prospects. If they did have the ability to demonstrate understanding for others, they would not be chasing folks down the street and telliing tall tales. Attempting to justify the actions by saying, "oh gosh the targets know what it's about", or, "I help people sometimes" is crap. So what? I have given money to the destitute, but that doesn't justify my then asking them if I can buying one of their kidneys for resale.

I am also aware that there are some kids that fall into this way of life. It seems fun at first, but within a few months they are on the phone to mummy asking for money to get the heck out of there. The salespeople are exploited and disposible just like their targets, The only ones that profit are the "developers" and the lawyers that facilitate the activity. If the kids ask too many questions or say, hey that's dishonest, they get tossed and a new sap takes his or her place. Promises of money and the good life that do not happen.

(Note: I am referencing the beach scavengers and scooter touts, not the legitimate real estate people.)

[chuppachops]

Ok, let me make sure I understand this correctly, you were an engineer, as in someone that went through 4 years of university and completed the basic university requirements for an engineering diploma and then you passed the exams in order to become a member of your nation's professional order and then walked away from all of that to sell time shares?

Correct, I done an apprenticeship, got my trade as a fitter. When i left school and had a steady job for many years doing nightshift. Had no life whatsoever and certainly no money back home, until i packed it all in to come here. Believe it or not i dont care, i make more money doing this and have a great lifestyle.

[Lite Beer]

Post containing profanities deleted.

[steelepulse]

I know where I come from getting a 4 year uni degree in electrical or mechanical engineering has nothing to do with being a fitter.  I think of a fitter as someone that went to trade school to learn a skill set, not a university.  My brother was a "pipe fitter" and made over 100K USD/year, so I'm not sure why you didn't make very good money.

 Anyway, if you're happy and pitch your club/timeshare ethically, keep on doing what you're doing. 

[Ping]

The male/female team that hangs about near the Karon roundabout are trouble. Nearly got into a stoush with the bloke yesterday when I told him I did not want his services.

[paulfromphuket]

This is getting soooo tired, please somebody close it.

This guy is so a believer he might as well go to the timeshare church, i ai'nt buying it and 99% of us wont either so not wasteing another minute of my valuable TIME on this nonsence.

Love you all enjoy your job, now there must be an unspecting tourist to tout.

[chuppachops]

This is getting soooo tired, please somebody close it.

This guy is so a believer he might as well go to the timeshare church, i ai'nt buying it and 99% of us wont either so not wasteing another minute of my valuable TIME on this nonsence.

Love you all enjoy your job, now there must be an unspecting tourist to tout.

LOL well stop reading it and posting then!

[Patriot]

I would rather be in a room full of OPCs and time share saleamen than a room full of Jetski renters, beach boys, bar girls, Nepalese clothes sellers, tuk-tuk drivers, whinging farang bar owners et al.

Since 1999 I have fond memories of good laughs and blinding nights out with "Big" Gary (where is he now), "Scouse" Paul and Dominic, Johnny "Short time", Ice clamp" Jerry, Scottie (of Scottie Bar fame) and many many more.

Yes folks, time share personnel ARE human beings after all!!!!!

BTW, I work offshore

[smartecosse]

Ok, let me make sure I understand this correctly, you were an engineer, as in someone that went through 4 years of university and completed the basic university requirements for an engineering diploma and then you passed the exams in order to become a member of your nation's professional order and then walked away from all of that to sell time shares?

Correct, I done an apprenticeship, got my trade as a fitter. When i left school and had a steady job for many years doing nightshift. Had no life whatsoever and certainly no money back home, until i packed it all in to come here. Believe it or not i dont care, i make more money doing this and have a great lifestyle.

and back to the work permit / being legal question......................

your work permit says what on it?

[DLock]

So you avoid the word 'timeshare', possibly because it has a negative meaning? But still, it is 'timeshare'.

No, it isn't. It's a vacation club.

Timeshare is something totally different. It usually involves buying a "week" of time in a resort that can be "fixed" - same week every year, or "floating" in that it is interchangeable to any other week of the year.

Vacation clubs don't involve actually owning anything. Almost every major hotel chain like Marriot, Hilton, Ritz Carlton has them. Why? Simple. People buy them and use them. Most of them offer connections to airline frequent flyer programs, fine dining discounts and a lot more. Try it for yourself - search for any major hotel name followed by "vacation club", and you will find a website.

Years ago, I was also an OPC, and had the time of my life. Living and working in ski resorts, busy Caribbean cruise ship ports, and many other places around the world. I was good at it, and was made a lot of money. I'd follow the busy seasons and go where there was money to be made. It is true that it isn't a job for everyone... it does take a certain amount of "moxie" that some people just don't have, and a certain amount of indifference to the people who have preconcieved notions, small minds, or just enjoy being rude.

In the case of people who are at the end of their resources in Thailand and trying to become an OPC, only a small amount will succeed. They probably tried teaching English first, and if they couldn't do that, they probably wouldn't have what it takes to be an OPC. They are both similar in the sense that both jobs involve being a "performer". Furthermore, OPC can be tough for someone because it is paid on commission basis only- no ups, no pay. Lots of people can't deal with that, and need the security of a regular paycheck.

I'm also an owner- I own a week in one of the resorts that I worked at in the Caribbean. I haven't been back there for more than a decade, but get my use out of it every year by trading it for any of thousands of resorts around the world. No regrets at all- it continues to be a great deal. I'm entitled to a two bedroom unit, which will have kitchen facilites. This is a h*ll of a lot nicer than a hotel room, and substantially cheaper!

Those of you who choose to decry the vacation ownership / vacation club / timeshare industry, that's fine. Every OPC and TS Salesperson knows that it is a numbers game... gotta take a certain number of no's to get a yes.

And, they all know that there is an a-hole in every crowd.

Bino, that was actually well written and some good points.

But I don't think this is about how good a deal "vacation clubs" are, which 5-star hotels have them or even how straight-up you are in how you operate.

Having been approached dozens of times by wide-boys in ill fitting polo shirts, combat shorts and flip-flops with the "Oy, you speak English mate?" only to be sworn at as I ignore them, or cutoff on the pavement by motorcycle two-sums with scratch cards, or asked to fill out a "Tourism survey" as a front for timeshare selling, you are tarnished by those bad experiences.

As a result, most of us seem to treat OPC's with disdain and whatever you are selling as a scam. I do feel sorry for the polite tourists who don't know any better and will stand and listen to the pitch. These are the same people who say "No thankyou" to every tuk tuk they pass, and shake hands with every "Apu the tailor" on beach road who mocks their accent. These are your marks and I feel bad for them.

You noted that the Ritz, Hilton and Marriot have "vacation clubs", but funny, I've never been approached by a likely-lad trying to sell me a "vacation club". Why is that?

So, it may not be what you are selling...it's how you are selling it, and who is fronting...and so far, no one has a nice word to say...

[thaiwanderer]

(Note: I am referencing the beach scavengers and scooter touts, not the legitimate real estate people.)

Why differentiate?

'legitimate real estate agents' tout renewable leases amongst other things. Is that not dishonest in the same way? Or does an air con office and a truck make them more trustworthy than a chancer on a scooter?