How We've Made Buddhism Our Own

[sabaijai]

How we've made Buddhism our own

By PHRA CITTASAMVARO

SPECIAL TO THE NATION

Published on August 6, 2009

Buddhism and Thai culture are so intertwined that they can be difficult to distinguish. Buddhism travelled across a continent and naturalised in the rich Thai culture. Since its arrival 2,500 years ago, the Thais have made it uniquely their own.

In many instances we can see the original Buddhist ideas clearly, such as the barefoot monks making their alms rounds in the early morning, or the Pali chanting in the temples.

The cultural awareness of meditation, even if it sometimes seems as though few people undertake it, comes directly from under the trees of ancient India.

Other aspects are harder to fathom. People taking their new car to the temple to be blessed or offering plastic pails full of products to monks on national holidays can seem a little strange to the outside observer.

Or how about the taxis that have Buddhist icons dangling under the rearview mirror to keep them safe from accidents?

In fact, all these things can also trace their origins back to pre-Buddhist India. Many of the chants in the oldest scriptures were blessings of a sort: "May you be healthy, may you be well, may you be victorious ..."

And making offerings to religious ascetics dates back at least 3,000 years, to the time when the Aryans first settled the fertile river valleys of the Indus and Ganges.

Even amulets are not such a strange thing. All cultures have made concrete symbols for abstract concepts. It's a way of making the invisible more real and important.

A modern example might be the wedding ring, a powerful symbol of commitment and status. Buddha images, large and small, are a concrete symbol of faith and "refuge" in the Buddha.

Buddhism was originally taught to ascetic monks under the trees in the forests of India. These monks had left their homes and families and "gone forth" in the religious order to meditate and seek enlightenment.

The Vinaya - the 227 rules and regulations monks undertake - was born from this environment. Many of the rules, especially the lesser rules like not drinking while standing upright, arose from accepted norms of the culture.

It was a highly specialised environment. To survive outside its original setting, Buddhism had to adapt and become relevant to the peoples it encountered across Asia.

In cold Tibet, the robes were adapted, and an essential evening meal was permitted. On the lower subcontinent, the philosophical Indians took Buddhism out of the forests and into huge universities, with some 18 schools of interpretation springing up.

So it is only natural that Buddhism has put its own indelible stamp on Thai culture.

One of the first areas to be affected as the religion emerged from the forest setting was the arts. Alexander's Greeks are credited with carving the first Buddha images - stone symbols of people's faith and commitment. Temple walls were covered in murals depicting various stories and events in rich layers of metaphor and symbol.

For instance, in front of most Buddha images in Thai temples you can see the image of the beautiful Earth Goddess Dharani washing her hair beneath the meditating Buddha. To her left is the attacking army of Mara, the God of Delusion. To her right the demons are washed away by the water from her hair.

This representation comes from the story of Gotama. On the verge of enlightenment, the God of Delusion attacked with his armies. These symbolise the hoard of thoughts, desires and hates within the psyche. The Buddha-to-be called upon the earth as witness to his manifold good deeds of many lifetimes. Thus the distracting aspects of the psyche were "washed away".

Behind most Buddha images is another symbol. You will see the Buddha descending a three-tier staircase of emerald, gold and silver.

This represents the legend that he had sought his mother in the heavenly realms to give her the gift of dharma. After he expounded the teachings, the jewelled staircase appeared for him to return to the human world. The story symbolises gratitude and respect for ones mother.

Other areas of culture have been shaped by Buddhist ideas. Education in particular was centred on the temple, and today many Thai schools are built on temple land because of this. Healthcare was also influenced. You can see in Wat Po, for example, many recipes for herbal remedies recorded around the walls.

A more modern example is the hospice movement, largely inspired by the Buddhist tradition of contemplating and preparing for the dying process.

Probably the most modern field to draw on Buddhism is psychology. In recent times there has been much research into the effects of mindfulness meditation. For instance, the Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction study at the University of Massachusetts has run eight-week meditation courses for 30 years, documenting the effect of mindfulness meditation on a variety of physical stress indicators.

The programme has been used with HIV and cancer patients, and even together with treatments for skin conditions - all with good, peer-reviewed science.

Another modern application of mindfulness meditation is the ACT - Acceptance and Commitment Theory - supposedly a new "third wave" of psychology, as recently reported in Time magazine.

It is the meditation side of Buddhism that has the most appeal to Westerners today, and that is the focus of the upcoming series of talks. Buddhism offers practical tools for training the mind and spirit.

How will Buddhism adapt from this point on? One new connection that's becoming clear in the modern world is the link between physical exercise, diet and meditation. Monks, reliant on alms-food, have never been well positioned to manage a healthy diet. Nor do cultural norms see them engaged in exercise. Yet we now know that these practices all support each other.

One thing is definite, neither culture nor Buddhism have ever remained stationary for long. We can look forward to ever-new expressions of this ancient teaching.

The series of talks will be hosted by Planet Yoga on Sukhumvit Soi 23 on Thursday evenings from August 6 to Sept 24. It's free of charge. The focus is on meditation.

Find out more about it at www.Littlebang.wordpress.com, the website of the Little Bangkok Sangha ("littlebang"), which was co-founded by Phra Cittasamvaro Bhikkhu. The monk was ordained in Thailand in 1996. He has a BA in Buddhist psychology from Mahachulalongkorn Rajavidyalaya University.

[rockyysdt]

How will Buddhism adapt from this point on? One new connection that's becoming clear in the modern world is the link between physical exercise, diet and meditation. Monks, reliant on alms-food, have never been well positioned to manage a healthy diet. Nor do cultural norms see them engaged in exercise. Yet we now know that these practices all support each other.

I've recognised the importance of diet & exercise to improve my meditation.

I include regular gym work as well as place importance on eating a well balanced diet.

A fit body settles the mind, improves the breathe & gives you the strength to endure long sits.

If Thai Buddhism adapts, perhaps more focus can be directed towards physical exercise & diet as well as healthy lifestyle such as refraining from smoking tobacco amongst monks.

Although I already practice wakeful mindfulness I'm reading "Mindfulness in Plain English" by Bhante Henepola Gunaratana for inspiration as well as improvement in my technique.

The chapter on "The Practice" focuses heavily on breathing, an essential component for improving ones concentration, & "Attitude" which is essential in ones practice.

That's why, in order to adapt positively, Thai Buddhism must tackle tobacco addiction amongst its ranks.

Seeing monks smoking says many things to me.

• Poor attitude.
  
• Lung damage (Breathe is an essential element of Meditation).
  
• Buddhism's image severely damaged.
  
• Breaking of a precept (refrain from drugs of dependence).
  
• Misappropriation of funds better directed to charity.
  
• Lacking seriousness & credibility.
  

I sincerely hope Buddhism does adapt positively & doesn't fall away as have many religions around the world.

Edited August 7, 2009 by rockyysdt

[Samuian]

How we've made Buddhism our own

- caught in Samsara - delusion!

maybe a translation mistake -

Seeing monks smoking says many things to me.

Display of poor attitude.

Permanent damage to an essential element of Meditation (lungs - breathe).

Buddhism image severely damaged.

Breaking of a precept (nicoteine a drug of dependance).

Missapropriation which could have been directed to charity.

Lacking seriousness & credibility.

I sincerely hope Buddhism does adapt positively & doesn't fall away as have many religions around the world.

Do you heard the story with the cup?

[phetaroi]

I've recognised the importance of diet & exercise to improve my meditation.

Is this based on Buddha's teachings or your own personal belief?

I include regular gym work as well as place importance on eating a well balanced diet.

Is this based on Buddha's teachings or your own personal belief?

A fit body settles the mind, improves the breathe & gives you the strength to endure long sits.

Is this based on Buddha's teachings or your own personal belief?

If Thai Buddhism adapts, perhaps more focus can be directed towards physical exercise & diet as well as healthy lifestyle such as refraining from smoking tobacco amongst monks.

Is this based on Buddha's teachings or your own personal belief?

Although I already practice wakeful mindfulness I'm reading "Mindfulness in Plain English" by Bhante Henepola Gunaratana for inspiration as well as improvement in my technique.

The chapter on "The Practice" focuses heavily on breathing, an essential component for improving ones concentration, & "Attitude" which is essential in ones practice.

That's why, in order to adapt positively, Thai Buddhism must tackle tobacco addiction amongst its ranks.

Is this based on Buddha's teachings or your own personal belief?

Seeing monks smoking says many things to me.

• Poor attitude.
  
• Lung damage (Breathe is an essential element of Meditation).
  
• Buddhism's image severely damaged.
  
• Breaking of a precept (refrain from drugs of dependence).
  
• Misappropriation of funds better directed to charity.
  
• Lacking seriousness & credibility.
  

I sincerely hope Buddhism does adapt positively & doesn't fall away as have many religions around the world.

My point here is this...well, as much a question as a point -- I don't disagree that smoking is, at best foolish, at worst a sin. I'm not so sure Buddhism's image is severely damaged by smoking...after all, it's nothing new.

I think you have an excellent point about misappropriation of funds...although maybe the term misappropriation is a little misguided (to me it applies illegality).

Tell me more about the religions around the world that you feel have fallen away.

[rockyysdt]

Is this based on Buddha's teachings or your own personal belief?

Not "belief" Phetaroi.

The Buddha taught of the "five hinderances" which are negative mental states that impede success.

One of them is "sloth & torpor" - good diet & exercise guards against this.

Another is "sensual desire" or craving for pleasures to the senses - eating to live rather than living to eat is the best attitude here.

Another is "restlessness & worry" - regular exercise gives one strength & a level of calmness to overcome this & improve concentration.

I guess how I'd put it is that there are many obvious things in life that the Buddha would have supported but didn't specifically mention.

I personally have grown to the opinion that exercise & healthy lifestyle would have been one of these.

We all have different body types & physical dispositions which may require different levels of exercise.

For example, I'm a worrying anxious type. I find that regular exercise & good diet assists me to use up negative chemicals such as adrenilin & other negative hormones pumped into my blood stream which lead to anxiety & long term damage. Things which affect your concentration & ability to maintain regular meditation.

We find ourselves generally in a different world compared to thousands of years ago when people had very demanding physical lifestyles in order to survive. Generally, modern man has become sedentary & needs to include exercise to overcome this. Even in poor nations such as Thailand it is difficult to find someone who is starving. Most westerners over eat if anything.

I find after a good physical workout I become calmer & generally more relaxed, a state which assists my concentration and single pointedness when meditating.

Also keeping on top of my weight & general bowel condition gives me strength & compliments my ability to endure long sits.

In summary, I'd say that these things are now common sense.

Think of the importance of exercise & healthy diet as something which has become part of my awareness, learned from the process of mindfulness,

Do you get involved with physical fitness & good diet?

My point here is this...well, as much a question as a point -- I don't disagree that smoking is, at best foolish, at worst a sin. I'm not so sure Buddhism's image is severely damaged by smoking...after all, it's nothing new.

I'm not sure what the question is Phetaroi?

My main point is that the breathe is integral to meditation.

Damaging this is a major blow to your ability to progress on the path.

If Abbots & monks allow this to occur its showing a lack of seriousness to what the Buddha taught.

Isn't a major nicotine addiction at the very least "craving for pleasure to the senses" a major hinderence which impedes success.

Tell me more about the religions around the world that you feel have fallen away.

Islam - Used to severely disadvantage & control women & is starting to get caught up in Jihadist terrorism, both missing the spirit of the Koran.

Christianity - Bogged down in politics & fractured into dozens of groups all teaching different things, all missing the point of love for fellow man.

Edited August 8, 2009 by rockyysdt

[garro]

"It is the meditation side of Buddhism that has the most appeal to Westerners today, and that is the focus of the upcoming series of talks. Buddhism offers practical tools for training the mind and spirit."

I would definitely agree with this. I think that it was trying to escape from rituals and traditions that drove many of us to seek out Buddhism in the first place - of course this opinion may not be based on the Buddha's teachings and instead be more my own personal belief Then again every view on Buddhism is based on personal opinion as there is no recognised spokesperson for the Buddha as far as I'm aware. Mind you, there are plenty of people who seemed to have nominated themselves for the role.

Edited August 8, 2009 by garro

[phetaroi]

Not "belief" Phetaroi.

The Buddha taught of the "five hinderances" which are negative mental states that impede success.

One of them is "sloth & torpor" - good diet & exercise guards against this.

Okay, I see where you're coming from, but I do think you are extrapolating from something the Buddha taught. And that's okay, as long as we realize that Buddha did not specifically talk about smoking (as far as I know).

Another is "sensual desire" or craving for pleasures to the senses - eating to live rather than living to eat is the best attitude here.

Okay, good point! Seems very logical. Although it hardly seems as if eating yum woon sen will harm my meditation.

Another is "restlessness & worry" - regular exercise gives one strength & a level of calmness to overcome this & improve concentration.

Now I think you are extrapolating what helps you as compared to what helps someone else. May vary from person to person.

I guess how I'd put it is that there are many obvious things in life that the Buddha would have supported but didn't specifically mention. I personally have grown to the opinion that exercise & healthy lifestyle would have been one of these.

Okay, so you realize you are extrapolating and, hopefully, that everyone might not agree with you.

...

We find ourselves generally in a different world compared to thousands of years ago when people had very demanding physical lifestyles in order to survive. Generally, modern man has become sedentary & needs to include exercise to overcome this. Even in poor nations such as Thailand it is difficult to find someone who is starving. Most westerners over eat if anything.

You may not have noticed the increasing weight problems here in Bangkok.

I find after a good physical workout I become calmer & generally more relaxed, a state which assists my concentration and single pointedness when meditating.

The key here is that you say, "I find...." Perhaps someone else does not find this to be true. Although I enjoy hiking and, around Bangkok, long photography walks, I feel good but sleepy after I do them.

Also keeping on top of my weight & general bowel condition gives me strength & compliments my ability to endure long sits.

A great deal of extrapolating here, in my view, if you are relating your daily bowel condition with what the Buddha taught...unless, of course, you have a reference.

In summary, I'd say that these things are now common sense.

Oh oh. Even Voltaire said, "Common sense is not common." And what is sensible is totally subjective.

Think of the importance of exercise & healthy diet as something which has become part of my awareness, learned from the process of mindfulness,

Ah, it's part of YOUR awareness.

Do you get involved with physical fitness & good diet?

Improving my diet and occasional exercise. Not at all where I should be.

My point here is this...well, as much a question as a point -- I don't disagree that smoking is, at best foolish, at worst a sin. I'm not so sure Buddhism's image is severely damaged by smoking...after all, it's nothing new.

I'm not sure what the question is Phetaroi?

My main point is that the breathe is integral to meditation.

Damaging this is a major blow to your ability to progress on the path.

If Abbots & monks allow this to occur its showing a lack of seriousness to what the Buddha taught.

Isn't a major nicotine addiction at the very least "craving for pleasure to the senses" a major hinderence which impedes success.

I don't see how smoking will suddenly begin to be harmed by smoking. It's nothing new. Now, if you say that it will harm an individual Buddhist's progress, I wouldn't argue with your point.

Tell me more about the religions around the world that you feel have fallen away.

Islam - Used to severely disadvantage & control women & is starting to get caught up in Jihadist terrorism, both missing the spirit of the Koran.

Okay. I can see your point, and to some extent don't disagree. My adopted son and his wife are Muslim, and they are very mainstream. As a result I have gotten to see how most Muslims act and talk with them, and they are very far away from disadvantaging women and Jihadist terrorism. I think that all religions go through phases of major adjustment, as has Buddhism.

Christianity - Bogged down in politics & fractured into dozens of groups all teaching different things, all missing the point of love for fellow man.

Whoa! How many very distinct groups are there in Buddhism? I think you need to rethink this.

I am not criticizing. I like that you can explain your beliefs and positions. A non-thinking Buddhist is, in my personal view, not a Buddhist at all.

[rockyysdt]

The key here is that you say, "I find...." Perhaps someone else does not find this to be true. Although I enjoy hiking and, around Bangkok, long photography walks, I feel good but sleepy after I do them.

Do you hike regularly? Infrequent exercise & your current condition may have something to do with the tiredness you refer to. People who I speak to, who regularly exercise tell me how calm & invigorated they feel after a workout.

These views aren't mine but those of mainstream medicine.

The following is the finding of research done at the Royal Adelaide Hospital.

Some of the more noticeable changes to exercise include:

• Increased bone strength;
  
• Increased physical work capacity (one's ability to perform physical work);
  
• Increased joint range of motion or flexibility;
  
• Improved sense of well being;
  
• Increased muscular strength;
  
• Improved glucose regulation (very favourable for diabetics);
  
• Decreased blood pressure;
  
• Improved sleep patterns and levels of anxiety.
  

Exercise can have a profound effect upon older persons with the most "unfit" usually experiencing the greatest benefits.

Also keeping on top of my weight & general bowel condition gives me strength & compliments my ability to endure long sits.

A great deal of extrapolating here, in my view, if you are relating your daily bowel condition with what the Buddha taught...unless, of course, you have a reference.

Consequences of Obesity • If you are obese, severely obese, or morbidly obese, you may have:

Major health risks

• Shorter Life Expectancy
  
• Compared to people of normal weight, obese people have a 50% to 100%
  increased risk of dying prematurely
  
• Obese people have more risk for:
  - Diabetes (type 2)
  - Joint problems (e.g., arthritis)
  - High blood pressure
  - Heart disease
  - Gallbladder problems
  - Certain types of cancer (breast, uterine, colon)
  - Digestive disorders (e.g., gastroesophageal reflux disease, or GORD)
  - Breathing difficulties (e.g., sleep apnea, asthma)
  - Psychological problems such as depression
  - Problems with fertility and pregnancy
  - Urinary Incontinence
  

Risks to psychological and social well-being

• Negative self-image
  
• Social isolation
  
• Discrimination
  

All these can have dire consequences on your ability to travel down the path the Buddha taught.

This list below summarises the daily requirements of monks at Wat Phra Dhammakaya:

1. Almsround
   
2. Temple Cleaning
   
3. Confession
   
4. Chanting and Meditation
   
5. Reflection
   
6. Caring for the Preceptor
   
7. Exercise and Self Maintenance
   
8. Dhamma and Monastic Studies
   
9. Caring for Temple Properties
   
10. Behavior Worthy of Respect
    

If obesity or poor condition is not through heredity but through lifestyle (diet & exercise) then this is due to inattention of some of the five hindrances.

Think of the importance of exercise & healthy diet as something which has become part of my awareness, learned from the process of mindfulness,

Ah, it's part of YOUR awareness.

How can you tackle the five hindrances without an element of extrapolation?

Non of them specifically define the countless permutations and combinations of human life.

1. Sensual desire (kāmacchanda): Craving for pleasure to the senses.
   
2. Anger or ill-will (byāpāda, vyāpāda): Feelings of malice directed toward others.
   
3. Sloth-torpor or boredom (thīna-middha): Half-hearted action with little or no concentration.
   
4. Restlessness-worry (uddhacca-kukkucca): The inability to calm the mind.
   
5. Doubt (vicikicchā): Lack of conviction or trust.
   

I don't see how smoking will suddenly begin to be harmed by smoking. It's nothing new. Now, if you say that it will harm an individual Buddhist's progress, I wouldn't argue with your point.

Not sure what you mean? Perhaps a typo.

My understanding is that nicotine acts on the brain to produce a number of effects.

Specifically, its addictive nature has been found to show that nicotine activates reward pathways—the circuitry within the brain that regulates feelings of pleasure and euphoria. Nicotine acts as a chemical with intense addictive qualities. In many studies it has been shown to be more addictive than cocaine and heroin.

One of the Buddhas 227 precepts was to abstain from intoxicants.

Doesn't powerful craving for regular ingestion of nicotine affect your behavior & judgment?

"quote name='phetaroi' post='2927301' date='2009-08-08 07:29:42' Okay. I can see your point, and to some extent don't disagree. My adopted son and his wife are Muslim, and they are very mainstream. As a result I have gotten to see how most Muslims act and talk with them, and they are very far away from disadvantaging women and Jihadist terrorism."

I was thinking globally. Women in places like Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, & parts of North Africa would tell a different story.

Phetaroi, wasn't this thread about what PHRA CITTASAMVARO thought about where Buddhism was going, quote:

How will Buddhism adapt from this point on? One new connection that's becoming clear in the modern world is the link between physical exercise, diet and meditation. Monks, reliant on alms-food, have never been well positioned to manage a healthy diet. Nor do cultural norms see them engaged in exercise. Yet we now know that these practices all support each other.

Not specifically what the Buddha taught?

I merely agreed & added consequences of nicotine, a habit which at the very least detracts from the respect of a monk,

& at its worst is a hindrance with serious medical consequences & a drain on the public purse.

Edited August 9, 2009 by rockyysdt

[krading]

sloth & torpor

That's going under my avatar when I hit 500 posts.

edit. I should have said "if I reach 500 posts"

Edited August 9, 2009 by krading

[phetaroi]

Phetaroi, wasn't this thread about what PHRA CITTASAMVARO thought about where Buddhism was going, quote:

How will Buddhism adapt from this point on? One new connection that's becoming clear in the modern world is the link between physical exercise, diet and meditation. Monks, reliant on alms-food, have never been well positioned to manage a healthy diet. Nor do cultural norms see them engaged in exercise. Yet we now know that these practices all support each other.

Not specifically what the Buddha taught?

I merely agreed & added consequences of nicotine, a habit which at the very least detracts from the respect of a monk,

& at its worst is a hindrance with serious medical consequences & a drain on the public purse.

Well, the whole forum is about Buddhism...which is based totally on what the Buddha taught, not what Rocky taught.

I have no problem with all you say about health and exercise. But I will say again, you are extrapolating your personal opinions to tell Thai Buddhist monks how to live. I agree with smoking and intoxicants and monks, because it does appear that was what the Buddha taught, but I will say again (and correctly this time), I don't see how monks smoking -- which they have done for years -- is going to suddenly begin to significantly harm Buddhism. I say this as a person who has had most of his family die from the results of smoking. I am a non-smoker. But this forum is not about Buddhism according to Vince...or Rocky...or any other person.

[agent69]

well, we have to look at how well and how much one eats and how much exercise one needs to maintain a healthy lifestyle, haven't we? Does one need to go to a gym everyday or left 20 pounds to maintain a healty life? A Thai monk would have to walk a fair distance each morning. They also have daily chore such as sweeping. Food that was given by lay people is quite nutritious though. They get variety of food from the local. But the point is having enough to life, never over indulge. I had been a monk for a month. Food was a lot healthier than what I would normally prepare for myself.

On the point of links between Buddhism and education, there was no formal school in the old days. The most common way of getting education was for a boy to be sent to a Wat to help the monks with every day chore. As for the return, they got food, place to stay and education. Buddhist wat had been the educational institution since the day one.

[rockyysdt]

I say this as a person who has had most of his family die from the results of smoking. I am a non-smoker.

Phetaroi, I'm sincerely sorry to hear of your family's misfortune.

But this forum is not about Buddhism according to Vince...or Rocky...or any other person.

Please never take my posts as personal attacks, but as sincere contributions to our path.

I don't see how monks smoking -- which they have done for years -- is going to suddenly begin to significantly harm Buddhism.

The harm has already been occurring for years?

An earlier post indicated that half of Thailand's 300,000 monks are smokers and a 2003 2004 study, conducted by the Priest hospital, found that cancer, tuberculosis, and pulmonary emphysema were the most common chronic diseases to affect 18,000 monk smokers during the past few years. Also that if a smoking ban was enforced they'd lose half the monks in Thailand overnight.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Death-Monks-...ng-t258250.html

The burden to the national health budget must be enormous.

In a poor nation scarce resources could be better spent on those with non discretionary illnesses.

The actions of these monks must have countless subtle but profound karmic impacts.

The real value of the Buddha's teachings is what it can do for us.

When people observe smoking monks and see what little their practice yields, then it can become easier for them to justify ignoring the path.

Edited August 10, 2009 by rockyysdt

[Samuian]

"up in smoke is where our money goes..."

Reminds one of the famous "smoking monk" there are even "Amulets" around with him smoking...well later

he renounced smoking as a result of "deeper insight" (in Hospital due to a heart problem) i went to one of his public appearances... it was money gathering, circus...he had someone around who always had a pack of his favored brand and a lighter at hand, the type of foreign brand cars he and his support crew arrived in not to mention....well yes, hopefully it isn't me envying this..may the Buddha forgive me and give me more insight and wisdom! but I can't help it if the hill tribes plight come to mind and the countless children on the streets... if I see a monk in the role of some pop-star!

...sorry not meant to offend, just my perception of the "truth".

well yeah... the question arises about the sincerity of these monks being a monk

and following the path of the Buddha, doesn't it?

In some aspects, seeing the orange wrapped monks around in certain sections

in Pantip plaza makes one think, doesn't it?

I do believe much of these "ailments" riddling the monkhood derives from the

cultural/traditional pressure that males become a monk - no questions asked.

I had the chance to witness the "becoming of a monk" of one of the sons out of my

thai friends circles, what would he have given NOT to become a monk!

The next things is that the monasteries serve as some sort of social gathering place

and refuge, so in certain cases elements gather there who not really belong there

and help to till the picture, but then they are somehow part of it all too!

Regarding the notion that "exercise and fitness is good to attain nirvana...."

I would like to ask if a crippled man, (I don't dare to mention

women),

than can't ever reach nirvana or meditate in the first place?

Is spirituality then, detachment, "let go", to reach enlightenment exceptionally

tied to exercise, resulting fitness, meditation and specifically to a certain type of doctrine and it's laws?

I really appreciate students, disciples, monks, searchers

who get exited by their achievements, but is it this what it is all about?

Or is it all just blown up ego......?

Edited August 10, 2009 by Samuian

[Groongthep]

First of all thanks to sabaijai for posting this article from The Nation about the upcoming dhamma talks to be held by Phra Cittasamvaro. I would like to attend myself but unfortunately I am presently outside of Thailand and won't be back until November. I also found it interesting that the thread quickly turned into a discussion of monks who smoke and do other things that seem to fall outside the guidelines of the Vinaya. From my readings of Thai history however, these things are nothing new. As far back as the reign of King Mongkut in the mid 1800s there were concerns over the Sangha falling into lax practices. That is one reason he founded the more austere Dhammayut Order in that same time period. I imagine there have always been those who have ordained as monks only to practice to different degrees of earnestness. Some apply themselves very honestly while others hardly seem to care at all. I don't think that will change anytime soon.

Getting back to the original subject of the dhamma talks, I did a bit of searching on some different search engines and discovered that Phra Cittasamvaro offered a very similar program last year. Here's a link to a Bangkok Post article dated last August that spoke of the event. 2008 Dhamma talk I was wondering if there is anyone reading this who happened to attend. I ask not only to get your opinion on the substance of the talks but to inquire if there was perhaps any other commercial aspect to the program. The reason I ask is that I also came across this article from ThaiAsiaToday. Gym owner promotes dhamma program It looks somewhat suspiciously to me to be a sort of bait and switch tactic to get one to join California WOW and/or Planet Yoga which are run by a Eric Levine who also just happens to be co-promoting the event.

I hope I am not being too skeptical but with the disproportionately high amount of scams going on here in Thailand I would really be disappointed to see this be just another and this one being pulled off using the venerable institution of Buddhism as the hook.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Groongthep

[rockyysdt]

The reason I ask is that I also came across this article from ThaiAsiaToday. Gym owner promotes dhamma program It looks somewhat suspiciously to me to be a sort of bait and switch tactic to get one to join California WOW and/or Planet Yoga which are run by a Eric Levine who also just happens to be co-promoting the event.

I hope I am not being too skeptical but with the disproportionately high amount of scams going on here in Thailand I would really be disappointed to see this be just another and this one being pulled off using the venerable institution of Buddhism as the hook.

It would be a terrible thing if there was a connection.

Not just for the public image of those concerned but their hidden karmic implications.

[rockyysdt]

Samuian

You should be a public speaker.

I absolutely love the way you word things.

You'd at the very least make a great speech writer.

Regarding the notion that "exercise and fitness is good to attain nirvana...."

I would like to ask if a crippled man, (I don't dare to mention

women), than can't ever reach nirvana or meditate in the first place?

This reminds me of the qualifications for those to be ordained at Wat Phra Dhammakaya

Quote: The persons forbidden from being a monk are;

1. Those are homosexuals and hermaphrodites.
   
2. Those who have done wrong against Buddhism such as killed an Arahant, caused schism in monastic community and asked to leave monkhood before.
   
3. Those who suffer from the following diseases;
   • Leprosy, Measles or Pox, fungus of skin.
     
   • Skeletal deformity including handicapped, blind or deft.
     
   • Debilitating weakness.
     

[*]Those who have prior restrictions or commitments such as not having parental or guardian consent, or by reasons of royal decree.

I couldn't believe it when I read it.

http://www.dhammakaya.net/events/510708_Ordination.php

Is spirituality then, detachment, "let go", to reach enlightenment exceptionally

tied to exercise, resulting fitness, meditation and specifically to a certain type of doctrine and it's laws?

I really appreciate students, disciples, monks, searchers who get exited by their achievements, but is it this what it is all about? Or is it all just blown up ego......?

I've read that others can point out our flaws better than ourselves.

Thanks for doing it subtly & without offense, which is apparently the key.

I'm not saying it's mandatory but as the mind & body are intertwined, physical care is very important.

There are many afflictions, such as mental illness, physical disability, disease & other things which can hinder our growth.

Some may be difficult or impossible to overcome in a given lifetime. Others may require specialised effort.

Those who are crippled have a raft of specialised programs official & unofficial available to them.

I tip my hat to the single legged guy who I see regularly working out.

Edited August 10, 2009 by rockyysdt

[camerata]

I was wondering if there is anyone reading this who happened to attend. I ask not only to get your opinion on the substance of the talks but to inquire if there was perhaps any other commercial aspect to the program. The reason I ask is that I also came across this article from ThaiAsiaToday. Gym owner promotes dhamma program It looks somewhat suspiciously to me to be a sort of bait and switch tactic to get one to join California WOW and/or Planet Yoga which are run by a Eric Levine who also just happens to be co-promoting the event.

I attended all the talks last year. They were held at Wat Yannawa. Nothing commercial about it. I believe some participants this year expressed an interest in a new venue (obviously has to be near a train station). At talks like these, up to a half of the participants may be non-Buddhists or total beginners, and as Westerners I think they prefer a secular venue. For example, at Wat Yannawa nobody bothered to wai or krab the Buddha image in the room. Also, the abbot wasn't happy that some participants wandered around the ground floor - where sacred relics are kept - with their shoes on. Personally, I prefer to hear a darma talk in a temple, but not everyone does.

[billzant]

Dear Forum,

Groongthep made the following comment:-

Getting back to the original subject of the dhamma talks, I did a bit of searching on some different search engines and discovered that Phra Cittasamvaro offered a very similar program last year. Here's a link to a Bangkok Post article dated last August that spoke of the event. 2008 Dhamma talk I was wondering if there is anyone reading this who happened to attend. I ask not only to get your opinion on the substance of the talks but to inquire if there was perhaps any other commercial aspect to the program. The reason I ask is that I also came across this article from ThaiAsiaToday. Gym owner promotes dhamma program It looks somewhat suspiciously to me to be a sort of bait and switch tactic to get one to join California WOW and/or Planet Yoga which are run by a Eric Levine who also just happens to be co-promoting the event.

In the original piece there is a reference for Littlebang (http://littlebang.wordpress.com/), and in particular a blog-entry by Phra Cittasamvaro about the talks:-

http://littlebang.wordpress.com/2009/08/04...is-years-talks/

Nowhere does it fully address the motivations of the donor. Littlebang does however offer Buddhists in Bangkok an opportunity to hear the Dhamma in English as well as providing a good source of information of wider Buddhist events in Bangkok. Reading the site or attending events could give you an insight into your assertion.

Hope you are keeping well,

All the Best,

Bill Z

[Samuian]

Samuian

You should be a public speaker.

I absolutely love the way you word things.

You'd at the very least make a great speech writer.

Regarding the notion that "exercise and fitness is good to attain nirvana...."

I would like to ask if a crippled man, (I don't dare to mention

women), than can't ever reach nirvana or meditate in the first place?

This reminds me of the qualifications for those to be ordained at Wat Phra Dhammakaya

Quote: The persons forbidden from being a monk are;

1. Those are homosexuals and hermaphrodites.
   
2. Those who have done wrong against Buddhism such as killed an Arahant, caused schism in monastic community and asked to leave monkhood before.
   
3. Those who suffer from the following diseases;
   • Leprosy, Measles or Pox, fungus of skin.
     
   • Skeletal deformity including handicapped, blind or deft.
     
   • Debilitating weakness.
     

[*]Those who have prior restrictions or commitments such as not having parental or guardian consent, or by reasons of royal decree.

I couldn't believe it when I read it.

http://www.dhammakaya.net/events/510708_Ordination.php

Is spirituality then, detachment, "let go", to reach enlightenment exceptionally

tied to exercise, resulting fitness, meditation and specifically to a certain type of doctrine and it's laws?

I really appreciate students, disciples, monks, searchers who get exited by their achievements, but is it this what it is all about? Or is it all just blown up ego......?

I've read that others can point out our flaws better than ourselves.

Thanks for doing it subtly & without offense, which is apparently the key.

I'm not saying it's mandatory but as the mind & body are intertwined, physical care is very important.

There are many afflictions, such as mental illness, physical disability, disease & other things which can hinder our growth.

Some may be difficult or impossible to overcome in a given lifetime. Others may require specialised effort.

Those who are crippled have a raft of specialised programs official & unofficial available to them.

I tip my hat to the single legged guy who I see regularly working out.

Thanks for the honors of my humble observations and resulting viewpoints!

And taking the time for further explanations regarding the tackled topics...

A little contribution to help and spill the tea..!

I just have the impression since long, that "much a do" about the

surroundings of the teachings, not only within Buddhist Sangha,

this is going on and the essence, what it all really is about gets "lost in translation",

or simply overlooked, with this brand of yoga mat, this kind of nirvana inscense...

Sometimes it seems to be more important how "the robe is wrapped" then "the knots

in the silken shawl" (kamma) become undone!

Especially as the teaching of the Wise One is pointing to simplicity, easiness,

the "down to earth" way and to "do it you yourself and be critical".... agreed some spiritual

(not the esoteric stuff) teachings, hearings are necessary to maybe "ignite the fire",

but then if the individual doesn't "walk the path" for itself no other will or can do for it/him/her.

One reason why I mentioned the "crippled man" will deaf people who never can hear about the dhamma

not be able to attain Buddhahood, will the blind because they can't read....and so on...

And as it has been mentioned in another post here, nowadays there is even an increased

chance that the individual can run into some sort of scam, or sect where of course, (for me very important)

underlying supporting sattvic nature of "darshan" , the "cleanliness", honesty,

the genuine effort, with all of ones senses fully committed to this, isn't present!

And just because of this it, is as much of value as a piece of discarded carboard on the road...

So one has to be careful it's a jungle "out there", different as in the times of the Enlightened One,

but still with many, many treacherous paths, and traps on the way!

Is about the chocolate not about the wrapping or the vendor!

Attaining Buddhahood is very much the same as an archer never looses sight of the target,

once focused, he/she stays focused "forever"!

...now I "forgot" what I wanted to say....

Edited August 10, 2009 by Samuian

[rockyysdt]

I hear what you say Samuian.

I did say you're an exemplary orator.

Not for the purposes of padding your ego.

I can see you have the gift of being able to inspire.

Most are ego based, perhaps me more than others, but using your example of the archer, as far away as it may seem for me, in my own way, I strive to keep my eye on the target.

Edited August 10, 2009 by rockyysdt

[Groongthep]

I was wondering if there is anyone reading this who happened to attend. I ask not only to get your opinion on the substance of the talks but to inquire if there was perhaps any other commercial aspect to the program. The reason I ask is that I also came across this article from ThaiAsiaToday. Gym owner promotes dhamma program It looks somewhat suspiciously to me to be a sort of bait and switch tactic to get one to join California WOW and/or Planet Yoga which are run by a Eric Levine who also just happens to be co-promoting the event.

I attended all the talks last year. They were held at Wat Yannawa. Nothing commercial about it. I believe some participants this year expressed an interest in a new venue (obviously has to be near a train station). At talks like these, up to a half of the participants may be non-Buddhists or total beginners, and as Westerners I think they prefer a secular venue. For example, at Wat Yannawa nobody bothered to wai or krab the Buddha image in the room. Also, the abbot wasn't happy that some participants wandered around the ground floor - where sacred relics are kept - with their shoes on. Personally, I prefer to hear a darma talk in a temple, but not everyone does.

I was very glad to hear this. Thanks for your imput camerata.

[Samuian]

....., I strive to keep my eye on the target.

Bullseye!

Keep it this way ..... and

...become the target!

..the archer, the bow, the arrow and the target are no different,

the difference is the way we are conditioned and tend to perceive the

appearences of the empiric world...

As the beginning has no end and there is no beginning to the end,

no specific borders, no steps to climb, tomorrow not come and yesterday's gone

only the present, the here and now is of any accountable reality you, me, he, she,

them are here and now together, no matter where and when - it's not about the

arrival - it's the Journey!

Enjoy livin by and with the dhamma, the sky has no limits and there for is the ceiling

of the temple - welcome to the compost heap!

"Don't seek the truth, drop your opinion!"

May all beings be happy!

Edited August 11, 2009 by Samuian

[camerata]

I was wondering if there is anyone reading this who happened to attend. I ask not only to get your opinion on the substance of the talks but to inquire if there was perhaps any other commercial aspect to the program. The reason I ask is that I also came across this article from ThaiAsiaToday. Gym owner promotes dhamma program It looks somewhat suspiciously to me to be a sort of bait and switch tactic to get one to join California WOW and/or Planet Yoga which are run by a Eric Levine who also just happens to be co-promoting the event.

I attended all the talks last year. They were held at Wat Yannawa. Nothing commercial about it. I believe some participants this year expressed an interest in a new venue (obviously has to be near a train station). At talks like these, up to a half of the participants may be non-Buddhists or total beginners, and as Westerners I think they prefer a secular venue. For example, at Wat Yannawa nobody bothered to wai or krab the Buddha image in the room. Also, the abbot wasn't happy that some participants wandered around the ground floor - where sacred relics are kept - with their shoes on. Personally, I prefer to hear a darma talk in a temple, but not everyone does.

I was very glad to hear this. Thanks for your imput camerata.

Now I see this on the LittleBang site:

"It is free of charge, and there is no need for advance registration, but there is a standard Planet Yoga registration form to fill in, so please arrive early if you are not a member.

People sometimes worry in temples that they might inadvertently be doing something wrong. Being a yoga studio, there are no rites/rituals, so everyone can feel at ease. And it is a very convenient location of course."

So participants may well start getting spam from Planet Yoga at some point. I suppose that's what they get in exchange for allowing free use of their premises. I wonder if I'd be violating the precept on lying if I put down a false address or phone number...