How Many Years In Prison Does Thaksin Deserve?

[Soutpeel]

I'm just really curious why so many of you feel so strongly about Thaksin when you're not Thai and probably feel no difference no matter what politician is in power.

Because my wife is Thai, and she hates him...so doing what I am told....

Just because I am not Thai, doesnt mean I cannot have an opinion on a Thai Politican, but I am trying to base my opinon on his actions, which to date, do not lead me to believe he has anybodies interests at heart except his own...

[Thaddeus]

Can't vote on this I am afraid as there is no death sentence option.

[frodo]

To those voting Life Sentence or Multiple Life Sentence, how do you justify your verdict?

I'd suspect that crimes against humanity hold quite lengthy jail terms. That's a charge unlikely to ever reach court though, unfortunately.

I assume you're referring to the extra-judicial killings of drug dealers. If he's guilty of this, why wouldn't that charge reach court?

Now to the extent that some innocent people may have been gunned down, that would be a real crime against humanity. But even then, you have to consider how many lives were likely saved as a result. If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them.

Many innocents were in fact gunned down, including a 7 year old child. The Thaksin style war on drugs is was a crime against humanity, though many apologists on this forum will certainly downplay this. Thaksin demanded quotas be met, regardless if the those murdered were dealers or not. It was nothing but a murderous rampage, media manipulation by his government, and a way to continue his popularity. It is a shame that he can't be tried on the international level.

[rixalex]

The Thaksin style war on drugs is was a crime against humanity, though many apologists on this forum will certainly downplay this.

The other frequently used tactic by the apologists is to sit back smugly and claim triumphantly that Thaksin will never be tried for this terrible crime because many others would be implicated.

They seem to have this strange idea that the people on this forum that believe in justice and would love to see Thaksin banged to rights, also have some vested interest in protecting certain parts of Thai society.

I'm under no illusion whatsoever that Thaksin undertook these thousands of killings single-handedly - he obviously did not. But crucially he was the one who gave the order. For that he should be held accountable, as should all the people involved. Will it happen? Very unlikley. Should it happen? Without a shadow of a doubt. Why do people defend him of this crime and celebrate his ability to evade punishment for it? I have absolutely no clue. They obviously have zero empathy for those who lost loved ones. I hope that's a tragedy they never have to deal with.

[Samuian]

Many innocents were in fact gunned down, including a 7 year old child. The Thaksin style war on drugs is was a crime against humanity, though many apologists on this forum will certainly downplay this. Thaksin demanded quotas be met, regardless if the those murdered were dealers or not. It was nothing but a murderous rampage, media manipulation by his government, and a way to continue his popularity. It is a shame that he can't be tried on the international level.

back to the right of the fist?

because his own son..... ehem (clear throat..) was...

But nevertheless at entitles NOBODY to take the "law"into his own

hands and kill people without proper trial - there are simply limits

to certain actions!

But on the contrary then, I wonder of course why so many of his supporters

are against a out of court trial against his and is entourage's wrongdoings?

[Moonrakers]

The Thaksin style war on drugs is was a crime against humanity, though many apologists on this forum will certainly downplay this.

The other frequently used tactic by the apologists is to sit back smugly and claim triumphantly that Thaksin will never be tried for this terrible crime because many others would be implicated.

They seem to have this strange idea that the people on this forum that believe in justice and would love to see Thaksin banged to rights, also have some vested interest in protecting certain parts of Thai society.

I'm under no illusion whatsoever that Thaksin undertook these thousands of killings single-handedly - he obviously did not. But crucially he was the one who gave the order. For that he should be held accountable, as should all the people involved. Will it happen? Very unlikley. Should it happen? Without a shadow of a doubt. Why do people defend him of this crime and celebrate his ability to evade punishment for it? I have absolutely no clue. They obviously have zero empathy for those who lost loved ones. I hope that's a tragedy they never have to deal with.

Indeed, what he did was to commit genocide. A very very serious crime.

How some can defend him for that is beyond me.

[frodo]

I must stand corrected regarding the war on drugs. It should not have read "many innocents were gunned down," but all people who were gunned down were in fact innocent. Not a single one of these 3,000 innocent people were brought before any court and tried. Innocent until proven guilty, none were found guilty. I agree as well, nothing but a genocide under the guise of heinous marketing campaign to maintain popularity.

[DP25]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid alright, but it's not what I said. Here's what I said: "If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them."

I'll stand by that.

No where near 3000 drug dealers were put out of business. Investigations in to Thaksin "war on drugs" have shown that the vast majority 3000 people murdered without trial had absolutely no connections with drugs at all. People killed were political opponents, people who had recently won the lottery, people the police just didn't like, or a variety of other reasons, as the police were given death quotas that they had to fill, whether they were able to find actual drug dealers or not.

The entire war on drugs was a sham to begin with, it was launched SOLELY to divert media attention from the multiple corruption cases that he was facing. There was no need for a war, Bangkok is not Bogata, you can safely walk the streets at night without being gunned down by drug dealers. It was an artificial war that executed thousands of innocent citizens for the sole purpose of protecting Thaksin from corruption charges. These were not drug dealers that were killed, they were innocent Thai citizens, and the man is truly one of the greatest monsters of our time.

[monkfish]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid alright, but it's not what I said. Here's what I said: "If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them."

I'll stand by that.

No where near 3000 drug dealers were put out of business. Investigations in to Thaksin "war on drugs" have shown that the vast majority 3000 people murdered without trial had absolutely no connections with drugs at all. People killed were political opponents, people who had recently won the lottery, people the police just didn't like, or a variety of other reasons, as the police were given death quotas that they had to fill, whether they were able to find actual drug dealers or not.

The entire war on drugs was a sham to begin with, it was launched SOLELY to divert media attention from the multiple corruption cases that he was facing. There was no need for a war, Bangkok is not Bogata, you can safely walk the streets at night without being gunned down by drug dealers. It was an artificial war that executed thousands of innocent citizens for the sole purpose of protecting Thaksin from corruption charges. These were not drug dealers that were killed, they were innocent Thai citizens, and the man is truly one of the greatest monsters of our time.

Do you have any evidence that none of the 3000 killed were drug dealers?

Or where did you get the information?

[hearditallbefore]

How many kicks in the ass do you deserve you silly boy?

We will be rejoicing when he takes his elected post back!!!!!!!!!!! And the bullshit mafia is out !!!!!!!

[Moonrakers]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid alright, but it's not what I said. Here's what I said: "If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them."

I'll stand by that.

No where near 3000 drug dealers were put out of business. Investigations in to Thaksin "war on drugs" have shown that the vast majority 3000 people murdered without trial had absolutely no connections with drugs at all. People killed were political opponents, people who had recently won the lottery, people the police just didn't like, or a variety of other reasons, as the police were given death quotas that they had to fill, whether they were able to find actual drug dealers or not.

The entire war on drugs was a sham to begin with, it was launched SOLELY to divert media attention from the multiple corruption cases that he was facing. There was no need for a war, Bangkok is not Bogata, you can safely walk the streets at night without being gunned down by drug dealers. It was an artificial war that executed thousands of innocent citizens for the sole purpose of protecting Thaksin from corruption charges. These were not drug dealers that were killed, they were innocent Thai citizens, and the man is truly one of the greatest monsters of our time.

Do you have any evidence that none of the 3000 killed were drug dealers?

Or where did you get the information?

He didn't say that none of them where.

Although technically none where dealers as not one was found guilty in court.

[hearditallbefore]

deleted

[monkfish]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid alright, but it's not what I said. Here's what I said: "If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them."

I'll stand by that.

No where near 3000 drug dealers were put out of business. Investigations in to Thaksin "war on drugs" have shown that the vast majority 3000 people murdered without trial had absolutely no connections with drugs at all. People killed were political opponents, people who had recently won the lottery, people the police just didn't like, or a variety of other reasons, as the police were given death quotas that they had to fill, whether they were able to find actual drug dealers or not.

The entire war on drugs was a sham to begin with, it was launched SOLELY to divert media attention from the multiple corruption cases that he was facing. There was no need for a war, Bangkok is not Bogata, you can safely walk the streets at night without being gunned down by drug dealers. It was an artificial war that executed thousands of innocent citizens for the sole purpose of protecting Thaksin from corruption charges. These were not drug dealers that were killed, they were innocent Thai citizens, and the man is truly one of the greatest monsters of our time.

Do you have any evidence that none of the 3000 killed were drug dealers?

Or where did you get the information?

He didn't say that none of them where.

Although technically none where dealers as not one was found guilty in court.

May be this is a Thai thing and not just Thaksin??

This is a quote from Amnesty International UK

In February 2008 Prime Minister Sundaravej publicly stated that 'When the crackdown [on drugs] is underway, killings will take place ... extrajudicial killings do occur'.

Source:

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17678

[frodo]

Maybe the whole drug war murders are just a TRT, PPP, or whatever reincarnation they happen to have and some Thaksin extremists on this forum who advocate the murder of innocent people. Thaksin, Prime Minister Sundaravej, Chalerm Yubamrung and hard core forum members have been rather vocal about killings without trial. Maybe the party can reicarnate itself as the GUPI Party...Guilty Until Proven Innocent. Wait....not a one ever had that chance to prove anything.

[dabest]

this guy is sicker than sick and has paid many time thugs to kill others

I think he deserves the death penalty for such gross use of his corrupt power

[MiG16]

alright people

i know this topic always brings up a lot of emotions in everyone

those that are for him, against him and even those that are neutral.

but posts, thoughts, ideas discussing or proposing violence will not be tolerated on the forum.

Please keep that in mind. Any further repeat of such, and the poster will be issued with a warning and possibly suspension of posting rights.

cheers

[hearditallbefore]

alright people

i know this topic always brings up a lot of emotions in everyone

those that are for him, against him and even those that are neutral.

but posts, thoughts, ideas discussing or proposing violence will not be tolerated on the forum.

Please keep that in mind. Any further repeat of such, and the poster will be issued with a warning and possibly suspension of posting rights.

cheers

katot khun MiG16, law lin na, mai thon kriet

[dabest]

r u referring to my post?

anyone who has killed, by order and payment 1000's of innocent people should receive a death sentence is just my humble opinion and sure by a legal court of justice only

not in the streets as it would then be violence correct?

did I miss something here?

[catmac]

To those voting Life Sentence or Multiple Life Sentence, how do you justify your verdict?

I'd suspect that crimes against humanity hold quite lengthy jail terms. That's a charge unlikely to ever reach court though, unfortunately.

I assume you're referring to the extra-judicial killings of drug dealers. If he's guilty of this, why wouldn't that charge reach court?

Anyway, I don't know if drug dealers can be counted as 'humanity'. You do understand the nature of the drug business, right? These are highly addictive substances which utterly destroy people's lives (and seriously mess up the lives of their loved ones as well).

Now to the extent that some innocent people may have been gunned down, that would be a real crime against humanity. But even then, you have to consider how many lives were likely saved as a result. If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them.

Please don't tell me that you think it's OK because they where drug dealers.

What about a persons right to trial by jury. What about a persons right to be considered innocent until proven otherwise.

Could that concept not also be applied to Thaksin? It would appear that many on this thread don't think so - blind hatred rules!

[Moonrakers]

Except that Thaksin was found guilty after a trial.

[Ulysses G.]

Not of killing anyone, which is what the Thaksin haters are using to justify their hatred.

He is not guilty until it is proven in a court of law!

[DP25]

Could that concept not also be applied to Thaksin? It would appear that many on this thread don't think so - blind hatred rules!

It should apply to Thaksin as well. Have him come back and stand trial for his crimes. That is a better fate than nearly 3000 people were offered when they were executed without trial.

[catmac]

Except that Thaksin was found guilty after a trial.

For a piddling technicality, for which he was sentenced to 2 years. As I said in my first post on this thread, all the rest is simply a pack of allegations, not proven in any court of law at this moment in time.

That, however, doesn't seem to stop the Thaksin haters from pronouncing him guilty, and sentencing him to ludicrous terms of imprisonment.

[Moonrakers]

Except that Thaksin was found guilty after a trial.

For a piddling technicality, for which he was sentenced to 2 years. As I said in my first post on this thread, all the rest is simply a pack of allegations, not proven in any court of law at this moment in time.

That, however, doesn't seem to stop the Thaksin haters from pronouncing him guilty, and sentencing him to ludicrous terms of imprisonment.

If he was to return then he could face other charges against him. And if his conviction was for a 'piddling technicality', then why did he try to hide it by having his wife sign false documents? He knew himself that what he did was against the law and tried to cover it up.

That those people during the drug war where not allowed the same basic right is a fact that not even Thaksin himself has tried to deny. Instead he and his supporters try to justify it by stating that drug dealers are evil etc etc. Major international organisations know what happened and condemn it.

Sure he has not been tried for that and is technically still "innocent" of the crime. The difference being though that what happens on this forum will not have him put in prison, or even killed without him having a chance to prove his innocence.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Moonrakers

[frodo]

My personal dislike of Thaksin does stem from these killings. I actually respected the man at one time. Once the murders began, that was the day he lost total respect from me. As many of us know and will openly admit, he became drunk in his power. The continual open threats against the media, the frivolous lawsuits nearly each day when anyone dared to be critical of him, his handling of the south was unacceptable and appalling, and we are still feeling the consequences of this. There are other incidents of him being insulting to another institution which I cannot discuss.

Incidents of elderly people being attacked and beaten by his goon-squad for speaking out against him....this is democracy? I can never convince anyone to believe one way or another, it's a personal choice and matter. Watching how he had destroyed a country and continues to do so, I will never change my dislike for this person. His arrogance and flaunting of the law and feeling he was above the law, he deserves whatever happens to him.

He was found guilty by the courts and he is therefore guilty. It's that simple. I know many folks will begin stating the courts were stacked, but when he narrowly escaped the charges in 2001 and was let off the hook, the verdict had to be respected. It is also well documented that the judges that found him not-guilty in 2001, were bribed and coerced into coming to that verdict. If the rules had to be respected back then, they need to be respected this time around. Unfortunately, Thaksin refuses to cooperate in any way and feels he is the victim. No, the real victims are no longer around; be it the drug war victims of gross injustice, the Thai-Muslims in the south who were thrown into backs of trucks and either died or became mutilated or perhaps Somchai Neelapaichit. The list goes on.

Some feel he was the best thing for Thailand, but that is never an excuse for the extreme abuses and corruption which took place at his control. Some of you are right, he hasn't been found guilty in the courts on many charges...he refuses to come back and acknowledge them. Instead, he uses those he bought off years ago as shields. The only good these people are to Thaksin is to make sure he gets his money back, and revenge on those who dared go against him. For many of those folks, it's time to pay the piper, and they don't even realize it.

Edited August 8, 2009 by frodo

[Thaddeus]

Yeah, that's pretty stupid alright, but it's not what I said. Here's what I said: "If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them."

I'll stand by that.

No where near 3000 drug dealers were put out of business. Investigations in to Thaksin "war on drugs" have shown that the vast majority 3000 people murdered without trial had absolutely no connections with drugs at all. People killed were political opponents, people who had recently won the lottery, people the police just didn't like, or a variety of other reasons, as the police were given death quotas that they had to fill, whether they were able to find actual drug dealers or not.

The entire war on drugs was a sham to begin with, it was launched SOLELY to divert media attention from the multiple corruption cases that he was facing. There was no need for a war, Bangkok is not Bogata, you can safely walk the streets at night without being gunned down by drug dealers. It was an artificial war that executed thousands of innocent citizens for the sole purpose of protecting Thaksin from corruption charges. These were not drug dealers that were killed, they were innocent Thai citizens, and the man is truly one of the greatest monsters of our time.

Do you have any evidence that none of the 3000 killed were drug dealers?

Or where did you get the information?

Christ on a bike, if just one of those 3,000 was an innocent that makes him guilty ..... and I used to know two of them who had done nothing more than rub a cop up the wrong way.

Either directly or indirectly makes no difference, Thaksin (missed off the khun intentionally) is a murderer.

[emancipationthailand]

The efforts had been done and the POVs here had been monitored by some of the most popular political boards in Thailand. Thanks for showing FIERCE opinions from the yellow/Democrat camp. We values these reflects coming from farangs in Democrat dominated regions in Thailand.

Now, let's see what will hold in the future from now on.

5 5 5 5 5

For farangs that still didn't realized this, your mode of thoughts is almost 1-year outdated, which is quite ancient considering the current situation.

I don't see any expressions of YOUR PERSONAL HARDSHIPS/SUFFERINGS affected from the late political crisis at all, absolutely.

[flying]

I think these silly Thaksin Hate polls that continue to

surface should be confined to the Baht Bus

Where they could get properly treated.

[Abrak]

I realize that feelings about Thaksin run high. Some object to the deaths of 3000 drug dealers in principal while other point that a couple of hundred were innocent. Pro Thaksin supporters justify the hard line and probably believe that many 1000s of lives have been saved by the crackdown even if it resulted in the deaths of a few hundred. Pro-Thaksin supporters look to the redistirbution of income which was unparalleled in SE Asia while anti Thaksin supporters believe that someone who sold his company for US$2bn and paid not tax has no moral authority to run any country.

It just goes on, other Thai PMs ordered the shooting of protesters and were not jailed and other Thai PMs were involved in the majority of drug smuggling within the country.

The worst problem with Thaksin is that he created a huge divisive and destructive divide within the country. If he is ignored and gradually forgotten that divide will eventually erode which is in everyones best interests. If he is brought back to this country and tried through an unelected government (assuming you believe votes should not be restricted to say intelligent people with an Oxford/ Cambridge degree) it will only re-ignite past differences.

I know anti-Thaksin people claim moral precedence over what they consider a corrupt and immoral man but they should at least realize that the only reason he is not in power is that they have abused a democratic system which they hold so dearly.

Let him fade away for the good of everyone.

[DP25]

Some object to the deaths of 3000 drug dealers in principal while other point that a couple of hundred were innocent.

It wasn't just a couple hundred. 1500 people were found to have had no connections at all with drugs, out of the 2500 people killed. Note that this does not mean the remaining 1000 were guilty either.