endure Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ex-pm, now disgraced fugitive Thaksin is facing prison time back in Thailand. However, he has not faced trial for all the charges against him. If YOU could decide, how many years in prison, if any, do you think he deserves? Thaksin Shinawatra deserves whatever sentence a legally constituted Thai court passes on him for crimes that he's found guilty of by that court. He certainly doesn't deserve any sentence that non-Thai citizens think he ought to serve. If you want to express opinions about political leaders perhaps you ought to: A: Move to a country where you have a vote B: Establish citizenship in Thailand so you can vote there many of us pay taxes in thailand , have a thai wife and thai children. I think that gives us the right to an opinion on thai politics and the direction the country is taking. Do you have the vote in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 If the police were told to kill drug dealers and they purposely killed innocents instead, they are responsible, not Thaksin. One minute you are telling us what a smart, shrewd man Thaksin is, and the next you are telling us that giving the police free reign to shoot people dead without the need for evidence, pesky trials or enquiries, is something he did in good faith and there was no way he could have foreseen how this policy would be abused. And on that basis, he is in no way responsible. Love is indeed blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Thaksin Shinawatra deserves whatever sentence a legally constituted Thai court passes on him for crimes that he's found guilty of by that court. as far as I am aware he was passed down a 2 year sentence. only 2 voters thought he deserved 2 years, so its clear from this poll basically no one here respects the courts verdict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Do you have the vote in Thailand? Many of us actually do have the vote Endure - and those that don't, absolutely do have the right to an opinion - furthermore, discussing that opinion with others is what i would describe as being a healthy and normal thing to do. If the fact that you are unable to vote here makes you feel forming any sort of an opinion is a waste of your time then fine - your choice - but please don't tell others they have no right to an opinion or a right to debate with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Thaksin Shinawatra deserves whatever sentence a legally constituted Thai court passes on him for crimes that he's found guilty of by that court. as far as I am aware he was passed down a 2 year sentence. You dispute that don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowena Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ex-pm, now disgraced fugitive Thaksin is facing prison time back in Thailand. However, he has not faced trial for all the charges against him. If YOU could decide, how many years in prison, if any, do you think he deserves? Jingthing None. If he is really disgraced fugitive, other countries probably would cooperative with Thailand by sending him back according to the Terrorist Foreign Minister's request. Other civilized countries would not accept the ridicule verdict that the buyer and the seller were not guilty but the husband was guilty for signing the consent for his wife to buy the land and most of all this sentence was done by the only one court system for politician like we have here in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ex-pm, now disgraced fugitive Thaksin is facing prison time back in Thailand. However, he has not faced trial for all the charges against him. If YOU could decide, how many years in prison, if any, do you think he deserves? Thaksin Shinawatra deserves whatever sentence a legally constituted Thai court passes on him for crimes that he's found guilty of by that court. He certainly doesn't deserve any sentence that non-Thai citizens think he ought to serve. If you want to express opinions about political leaders perhaps you ought to: A: Move to a country where you have a vote B: Establish citizenship in Thailand so you can vote there many of us pay taxes in thailand , have a thai wife and thai children. I think that gives us the right to an opinion on thai politics and the direction the country is taking. Do you have the vote in Thailand? Thank Gawd they do not..... Otherwise they would transform LOS into the same type of place they are running from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 But I'm a skeptical sort - I don't come to believe things easily. Me too. So you'll forgive me when i say i have suspicions about a recently signed up member with a name like "dumbnewbie" who declares his mind to be a clean slate with no prejudicies or preconceived opinions. The "i have no stand in this - i'm completely neutral" tactic is one used on a frequent basis by returning banned members. In the fullness of time though they can hide their colours no longer. I am a skeptic who likes to be proved wrong however, so should you (prove me wrong that is), i'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 If the police were told to kill drug dealers and they purposely killed innocents instead, they are responsible, not Thaksin. One minute you are telling us what a smart, shrewd man Thaksin is... Why don't you point out where I said this. I do not "love" him, but I think that he is no worse than most other Prime Ministers and was better in some ways. That is about as far as I would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Thaksin Shinawatra deserves whatever sentence a legally constituted Thai court passes on him for crimes that he's found guilty of by that court. as far as I am aware he was passed down a 2 year sentence. You dispute that don't you? i cant discuss it due to forum rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Thank Gawd they do not..... Otherwise they would transform LOS into the same type of place they are running from. You are right. Thais are doing a fine job of running the country without the help of foreigners, be they with the vote or without. Just look at the change Thai people have brought about in the last few years - Thaksin has gone from leader to convicted criminal. That is indeed progress and all down to Thai people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD333 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Insight, that occured to me also which is why I felt the need to cite Frodo's was a good post. I have noticed that when someone lays out the facts, their justifiable complaints regarding Thaksin, logical counter arguments seem to evaporate and real responses disappear. What I have felt alarmed about (truly underlined with this poll) is the amount of foreigners who now seem to be revisionists of history, or as you said... ...'are adopting the "so what? everybody's corrupt" mentality'. My theory is that a number of people now think the country would be in a much better economic position had Thaksin remained in power. This from the outset is flawed thinking as it is the global economy having an effect on tourism/exports etc rather than domestic political problems. Yes, the bad press has exacerbated the effects of the worldwide downturn but as I posted in another blog - when the airport was still closed, I was arguing as soon as it reopened, the flights would be full and people would fly here. I was proved correct. Its nonsense to lay the more recent drop in tourism at the feet of the demonstrations. Most international tourists did not give a dam_n about red or yellow shirts.. However, the idea that 'things would be better' is a bad joke for an entirely different and alarming reason, one which was widely reported (and confirmed) and now so many (again, foreigners at the forefront) are conveniently forgetting - the evidence that Thaksin was planning his own coup. How is it that this is being swept under the rug? All we hear is incessent bleating regarding the illegality of his removal by the military, however... Prior to the events in September 2006 there had been a wave of disgust against Thaksin (and please spare me the idea this was all 'organised'...people were simply disgusted with the affront of Thaksin changing laws to enable the sale of Shin Corp to Temasak. To then contrive that no tax was owed is the straw which broke the camels back) Whatever PAD was organising paled compared to the uptick of anti-Thaksin feeling. Then under Yongyuth's direction, enter the Forest Rangers to start breaking up anti-Thaksin demonstrations violently. This was reported on (running through malls and beating people) across the media. Things were taking an unsavory turn. Throughout this period, Thaksin repeatedly tried to antagonise the demonstrators to claim that there was increasing violence on the street (reported daily). There was nothing of the sort or it was solely coming from Thaksin supporters. Continued accusations from Thaksin and his supporters and low and behold, the Forest Rangers are being mobilised again to come into Bangkok from Khao Yai (all reported and factual). At this point friends and myself are already firmly of the opinion that Thaksin is trying to precipitate much more violence so he can declare a state of emergency and use sections of the army (commanded by his relatives) to stage his own coup as he felt power slipping rapidly away from him. Weasle that he is, he removes his family and self from the scene of the crime just in case things went pear shaped - which they did (should we talk about the documented exit via private plane with the family and family jewels etc before the coup?) . That is why no-body contested the military takeover at the time. The facts were all on hand for the international press to report on (Yongyuth briefly on the run and hiding out in a Forest Ranger 'safe house' whatever the hel_l that is supposed to be etc etc etc) but they failed miserably in their lazy reportage of a 'step back for democracy'. This is what staggers me concerning longer term farangs and their blithe acceptance, their revised take on Thaksin. It appears that a lot of posters are put out of joint concerning an ailing economy. What I see is anger originating from selfish reasons, i.e. i am not doing as well, rather than some true concern for the country. If I am correct in that their protestations are derived from shallow and selfish reasons, then it is not a surpise that they don't appear to give a crap regarding the rule of law or the drain of Thaksin's corruption. Their silly and simple perception is things would be better for me under Thaksin. However, the facts point to something entirely differnt...that chance are Thaksin was attempting to place thailand under his dictatorship. Again, have we all conveniently forgotten this? Google any number of aspects cited here to confirm. So imagine that scenario coming to reality and how the international media would have been reporting on that, (presuming that they actually woke up and were bothering to report the facts?) Imagine the factions fighting, the quashing of demonstrations, whatever vestige of free speeech evaporating, Thaksin out of control as the megolomaic he really is. Thaksin had painted himself into an untenable corner by his own repeatedly questionable actions. He'll never face up to 'his bad' but it is very deflating that farangs in numbers now seem prepared to ignore and absolve him of his transgressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) You are right. Thais are doing a fine job of running the country without the help of foreigners, be they with the vote or without. Just look at the change Thai people have brought about in the last few years - Thaksin has gone from leader to convicted criminal. That is indeed progress and all down to Thai people. Yes unless of course you want to take credit? I would not say the Thai people brought about this mess....more a select group...But not my fight. Funny I would like to see a foreigner go to what ever country your from....One that does not read, write or speak your language for the most part...one who cannot read or know your history due to these lack of abilities so does not know your constitution etc,,....Yet presume/demand that they know best how to run the place from where you sprang. I am sure you would be all for that. It is a very good thing that folks like the ones that start these silly non-polls are only allowed a pay to stay visa. Edited August 9, 2009 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ex-pm, now disgraced fugitive Thaksin is facing prison time back in Thailand. However, he has not faced trial for all the charges against him. If YOU could decide, how many years in prison, if any, do you think he deserves? Thaksin Shinawatra deserves whatever sentence a legally constituted Thai court passes on him for crimes that he's found guilty of by that court. He certainly doesn't deserve any sentence that non-Thai citizens think he ought to serve. If you want to express opinions about political leaders perhaps you ought to: A: Move to a country where you have a vote B: Establish citizenship in Thailand so you can vote there many of us pay taxes in thailand , have a thai wife and thai children. I think that gives us the right to an opinion on thai politics and the direction the country is taking. Do you have the vote in Thailand? The TV voting occurs over here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Support-Lead...nd-t283106.html Poll: Who Do You Support To Lead Thailand? The Expat Polls are open! interesting and telling results thus far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 The TV voting occurs over here:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Support-Lead...nd-t283106.html Poll: Who Do You Support To Lead Thailand? The Expat Polls are open! interesting and telling results thus far.... a more scientific and realistic ABAC poll conducted with real thai people was done not more than a few weeks ago and put Thaksin ahead of Abhisit in terms of popularity/leadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) The TV voting occurs over here:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Support-Lead...nd-t283106.html Poll: Who Do You Support To Lead Thailand? The Expat Polls are open! interesting and telling results thus far.... a more scientific and realistic ABAC poll conducted with real thai people was done not more than a few weeks ago and put Thaksin ahead of Abhisit in terms of popularity/leadership The ABAC poll wasn't a straight up voting preference poll of candidates. Edited August 9, 2009 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I would not say the Thai people brought about this mess....more a select group. A select group of Thai people perhaps? So i take it then that you respect what they have done and bow to their better judgment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 So i take it then that you respect what they have done and bow to their better judgment? Neither here nor there.....That is the whole point It is their country you are a pay for visa guest. Accept That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) The TV voting occurs over here:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Support-Lead...nd-t283106.html Poll: Who Do You Support To Lead Thailand? The Expat Polls are open! interesting and telling results thus far.... a more scientific and realistic ABAC poll conducted with real thai people was done not more than a few weeks ago and put Thaksin ahead of Abhisit in terms of popularity/leadership The ABAC poll wasn't a straight up voting preference poll of candidates. nevertheless there is a strong relationship between popularity and voting preference, its certainally a more realistic indicator than the lopsided and biased expat poll you seem so keen to want to promote Edited August 9, 2009 by mc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 If the police were told to kill drug dealers and they purposely killed innocents instead, they are responsible, not Thaksin. One minute you are telling us what a smart, shrewd man Thaksin is... Why don't you point out where I said this. It was the impression i got, but if you are telling me you don't think he is smart or shrewd, i certainly won't argue with you. P.S. Don't worry, i'm sure we can find other things to argue about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) The TV voting occurs over here:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Support-Lead...nd-t283106.html Poll: Who Do You Support To Lead Thailand? The Expat Polls are open! interesting and telling results thus far.... a more scientific and realistic ABAC poll conducted with real thai people was done not more than a few weeks ago and put Thaksin ahead of Abhisit in terms of popularity/leadership The ABAC poll wasn't a straight up voting preference poll of candidates. nevertheless there is a strong relationship between popularity and voting preference, its certainally a more realistic indicator than the lopsided expat poll you seem so keen to want to promote The relationship is not nearly as strong as the relationship between voting preference and voting preference. That ex-pat poll has the same validity as this poll, and not "promoting" the other poll... just hoping to keep things in perspective, as dozens of posts in this thread reflect an over-exaggeration of this poll results and its meaning. A lot like ABAC polls, which are far removed from "scientific and realistic" in their own right, btw. Edited August 9, 2009 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 It is their country you are a pay for visa guest. Speak for yourself. You have no idea what the background of people are on this forum - don't presume to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) Speak for yourself. You have no idea what the background of people are on this forum - don't presume to. I see so today you are a Thai citizen eh? How about last week...secret service or gynecologist I presume If you had the ability to vote you wouldn't take part in these play polls Edited August 9, 2009 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) It is their country you are a pay for visa guest. Speak for yourself. You have no idea what the background of people are on this forum - don't presume to. It also presumes that even for those people that are a visa guest that they have absolutely no ability to influence people that can vote. In reality and on the contrary... amazingly, some visa guests actually do talk to Thai people. Edited August 9, 2009 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 If you had the ability to vote you wouldn't take part in these play polls as per above "talking to Thais" post, it IS possible to do both and have an influence on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD333 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 So the Forest Rangers were not shipped into Bangkok to quell anti-Thaksin demonstrations? So the same Rangers were not ordered/scheduled to return to Bangkok at the alarm of many parties? So Thaksin was not repeatedly claiming that violence was on the street when there was none? Facts. Yes, thats why I said Google on any number of points in my post. Oddly, you can find many reports pre-coup when even some foreign press were looking askance at Thaksin's actions. You are correct, lets discuss what he actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 ooooooo so this is how you came up with your brilliant idea that the "vast majority" of foreigners in Thailand are "anti" Thaksin. A robust 98 people have said he should be incarcerated. Very scientific. So very indicative of the sentiments of people. Know what? For the majority of foreigners, I don't think they care. Please don't tell me you have a collection of images of Mr. Thaksin.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 For the majority of foreigners, I don't think they care. No opinion option. No opinion [ 2 ] ** [1.41%] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) yeh but this thread has more than 3000 views and just 150 votes so there is people who dont care so much they couldnt care to vote. then there are those that read the topic title and dont care to click on it. Edited August 9, 2009 by mc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) yeh but this thread has more than 3000 views and just 150 votes so there is people who dont care so much they couldnt care to vote. TOTAL BS and you know it. Many of the same people come back to comment and view the new results! True believers/propagandists will stop at anything to maintain their world view. Edited August 9, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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