Foreigners Taking Over Land In North Thailand, Claims Farmers' Group

[MRFortuner]

Basically what the Thai government is telling the foreigner (not a thai citizen), "You are the first of your own generation in Thailand. Whatever you invest is for your future generation which will be automatically granted a Thai citizenship and the same privileges under the Thai law; same benefit (hint hint)"

In other words, the Thai government just letting you know that, if you are seriously into permanently staying in Thailand, please do so. invest all you want, buy the land you want, rent the house you want because at the dawn of the day, you sons and daughters will get to own them. HOWEVER if you are not serious about it, please don't play around with the serious people. that all.. what is the big fuss.

For those non-Asian folks here, its really hard for you guys to understand the printing of Asian culture and thinking. You are all very lucky to have been borned in your own country (whether you are native or not) and given the same privileges and benefit. Many "Asian" countries don't. And Thailand is one of the many "Asian" countrries that I known; gives the same privileges and benefits as long as you are a Thai citizen irregardless of how many fuc*ing generation you are from. How about that?

I am from Malaysia. I am the 3-third generation of Chinese decendent in Malaysia. I hold malaysia passport, citizen card, sing the national anthem, speak the national language BUT i am still being referred to as "Malaysian-Chinese" with a 2nd class citizen privileges. "Malaysian-Chinese" are not given the same benefits as "Malaysian-Muslim". Muslim gets many discount. Chinese ethnic have not discount. Muslim get health benefit from government, Chinese ethnic pays our own fees, Muslim gets all the place in local universities and scholarship. Chinese need to fork-out from our own pocket. By the way, did I mentioned that "Malaysian-Muslim" are mostly decendent which ever colonial that have ever colonized malaysia prior to our independence in the year 1957? I guessed I missed that part. Malaysian's foreigner investment law are much strictier than Thailand's. At least the Thai government won't take 30% of your initial investment and capital for themselves.

Well, my paragraph have 2 deep meaning here.

1) If you think Thailand is bad, I can name you 20 more country worst than Thailand. I know one country in SEAsia region which is 1000X more corrupted than Thailand. Opps.. I think I mentioned one of them already..

2) If you love Thailand (like if you love your wife) then stay, get serious, start a new generation in this LOS. If you hate it (divorce your wife), stop complaining, move away. Find a place that is better to suit you.. please don't stay in Thailand and hoping Thailand will change for you in the future. Is like getting a gf and hoping that she will change to be who you want to be.. Bullshit. You see the beauty in her in-perfection. Same things as we see Thailand's beauty in its own in-perfection.

Man!!!! LIFE SUCKS.

[animatic]

As I understand it you can become a citizen here,

but most westerners don't go so far. But it is possible.

[lannarebirth]

Basically what the Thai government is telling the foreigner (not a thai citizen), "You are the first of your own generation in Thailand. Whatever you invest is for your future generation which will be automatically granted a Thai citizenship and the same privileges under the Thai law; same benefit (hint hint)"

In other words, the Thai government just letting you know that, if you are seriously into permanently staying in Thailand, please do so. invest all you want, buy the land you want, rent the house you want because at the dawn of the day, you sons and daughters will get to own them. HOWEVER if you are not serious about it, please don't play around with the serious people. that all.. what is the big fuss.

For those non-Asian folks here, its really hard for you guys to understand the printing of Asian culture and thinking. You are all very lucky to have been borned in your own country (whether you are native or not) and given the same privileges and benefit. Many "Asian" countries don't. And Thailand is one of the many "Asian" countrries that I known; gives the same privileges and benefits as long as you are a Thai citizen irregardless of how many fuc*ing generation you are from. How about that?

I am from Malaysia. I am the 3-third generation of Chinese decendent in Malaysia. I hold malaysia passport, citizen card, sing the national anthem, speak the national language BUT i am still being referred to as "Malaysian-Chinese" with a 2nd class citizen privileges. "Malaysian-Chinese" are not given the same benefits as "Malaysian-Muslim". Muslim gets many discount. Chinese ethnic have not discount. Muslim get health benefit from government, Chinese ethnic pays our own fees, Muslim gets all the place in local universities and scholarship. Chinese need to fork-out from our own pocket. By the way, did I mentioned that "Malaysian-Muslim" are mostly decendent which ever colonial that have ever colonized malaysia prior to our independence in the year 1957? I guessed I missed that part. Malaysian's foreigner investment law are much strictier than Thailand's. At least the Thai government won't take 30% of your initial investment and capital for themselves.

Well, my paragraph have 2 deep meaning here.

1) If you think Thailand is bad, I can name you 20 more country worst than Thailand. I know one country in SEAsia region which is 1000X more corrupted than Thailand. Opps.. I think I mentioned one of them already..

2) If you love Thailand (like if you love your wife) then stay, get serious, start a new generation in this LOS. If you hate it (divorce your wife), stop complaining, move away. Find a place that is better to suit you.. please don't stay in Thailand and hoping Thailand will change for you in the future. Is like getting a gf and hoping that she will change to be who you want to be.. Bullshit. You see the beauty in her in-perfection. Same things as we see Thailand's beauty in its own in-perfection.

Man!!!! LIFE SUCKS.

I was just about to write a post in a similar vein. Thanks for saving me the trouble. I agree with everything you posted.

[warmwater7]

So, what is the problem? These Thai farmers just have to go to US or Europe and buy all the land they want, IN THEIR OWN NAME !!!

so what is unfair?

:-)

Every country is begging for foreign investment except here.

What are they scared of ? Someone else may do it right!

THE INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM.

I MEAN, WHY BOTHER ?---------- SEE : M E X I C O.............................

[rkidlad]

More racism your GF comments. Her mother paid off for her ID did you know that or do you even care .

Frankly we who live here don't need your sympathy if you want to help get rights for all of us buckle down and help.

Frankly I get more tired of the guys living here than I do the locals.

I don't care, that's my point. Thought I'd made that quite obvious. Rights? I have rights, In my own country. Thai people don't even have rights here unless they have money.

I live here too, just like you. Maybe I should take to the streets and spill blood? I know her mother bought her way into citizenship- Why on earth would I want to do that? (I'm not running from anything and I'm not some nomad escaping from repression)

You knew from the beginning what life would be like here, but you chose to fight after. By all means, fight the power. My ancestors fought and died for the rights I enjoy today, and I 100% appreciate that. But as for Thailand, it has to come from the inside out.

"Frankly I get more tired of the guys living here than I do the locals" Sorry I make you tired, sorry the locals make you tired, everyday must be a chore.

I have a good set up, and if one day the Thai government take it all way, I'd be massively pissed. But I won't have lost anything I couldn't afford to. Immigration interview me once a year 'why you have no children? Buy no property?' Easy! Because you bunch of wanke_rs could take it away from me without a moments thought.

Thanks for your empathy though. And once again, sorry you're so tired of everybody here.

My g'f is racist? I really don't care about that, even if it were true. Thai people, asians, the French, Peruvians etc etc can say what they like about me and 'my kind' Stupid farang this, stupid farang that. I know who I am.

[brahmburgers]

As a farang, if you want to secure property in Thailand, here are a few suggestions;

1. consider non-titled. You can't own it anyway, so what's the big deal whether it has paper or not? I know of a few farang, wiley in Thai ways, who actually prefer non-titled to titled, mainly because of cheaper price. If considering non-title, it's best to talk with neighbors and pu yai ban where the property is. If they all say it's cool, then it probably is. Either way, don't spend more (on property and improvements) than you can afford to walk away from. When the smoke clears, and its time to check in to Pearly Gates Motel, you can probably look back and smile at the good times you had on the land you bought for pennies on the dollar (satang on the baht).

2. Whether titled or not, legally, a foreigner can own improvements on the land, but not the land itself. With that in mind, consider getting a yellow 'Tabian Ban

booklet, which is the farang equiv. of the blue one for Thais. It's a house registration in farang's name (written in Thai font). You, as a farang, probably paid for the house, so why not put the registration in your name. Plus, the yellow booklet renders bureaucratic things easier.

3. secure higher elevation property. As this is a rice-growing culture, rice paddies are held in special regard (as the OP report mentions) - so farang securing rice paddies or low-lying land might raise eyebrows among ultra-nationalists who seek a scapegoat for their perceived deprivity, or for their stupid earlier decisions.

4. Stay under the radar. Be legal, but don't wave your flag.

5. Regard such rantings as those in the OP with so many grains of salt or MSG. Whoever says such things about Palm Oil plantations in Chiang Rai (there are none) needs a tall glass of carrot juice to clear their heads.

6. Chinese Thais are here to stay - like it or not. Not much different than Mexican Americans throughout the SW USA. Best to find a way to enjoy them or at least tolerate them, and maybe they can do the same in regard to you.

7. Haven't heard mention of farang getting plastic surgery to change their features to Asian. Ok, it's not going to become a trend, but you got to admit it would put a dent in Thai xenophobia, as physical appearances are 90% of what's going on. However, even with Asian facial features, you still might get odd treatment with your hairy arms and bulky frame - though you might save 180 baht when entering a national park.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

interesting article

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: Sanitsuda Ekacai - Bangkok Post Reply with quote

Stop hunting for 'foreign' scapegoats

Writer: Sanitsuda Ekacai

Published: 13/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

It is one thing to nurse concern for small-scale farmers. It is another thing, however, to make foreigners the scapegoats. For the so-called backbone of the country, the lack of farmland indeed poses a serious problem to Thai farmers, who are also struggling with indebtedness from the high cost of farm investment amid chronically low prices, while their once fertile soil is rapidly dying due to intensive chemical farming. Should we focus on the root of their problems instead of resorting to xenophobia?

The recent spate of news on proxy ownership of rice farmland by rich foreign investors has stirred much public anxiety and nationalist fervour, although much of the news has been based on the news sources' concerns, rather than on concrete evidence. According to these news reports, the foreigners - mainly those from oil-rich Arab countries - are buying up rice paddies in the countryside and hiring the locals to till the land in order to ensure sufficient rice supply for their countries, and to benefit financially from the various rice support schemes offered by the government.

While this story is going nowhere, reportedly due to the farmers' fear to talk, the latest news angle focuses on the foreign husbands of Thai women who, through their wives, are buying up farmland in scenic areas in order to build resorts.

Yes, we should be concerned about the farmers' rapid loss of land. But aren't we pointing the finger in the wrong direction?

When the government launched the Green Revolution 40 years ago with an aim to make Thailand the world's biggest rice exporter, every farmer dreamed that the high-yield rice varieties and chemical rice farming would make them prosperous for good.No one knew that they would soon suffer from frequent pestilence as a result of mono-culture farming and a losing business. How could they survive when fluctuating rice prices in the world market just could not keep up with the skyrocketing prices of farm chemicals?

While the farmers wilt, intensive chemical farming destroys soil fertility, contaminates the waterways, causes various illnesses from chemical residue in the food chain, or simply maims and kills farmers from prolonged over-exposure to hazardous chemicals.

And now when the farmers feel they know better and are trying to switch to organic farming and herbal pesticides, guess who are their main opponents? Who else but the farm chemical giants - and our very own agricultural authorities.

Remember their efforts to list such medicinal herbs that are widely used for herbal pesticides as "hazardous" and thus subject to tight control? Guess why.

Amid the losing business of rice farming, many farmers decided to sell their land to speculators under rising demand from the tourism industry and the urban middle class' need for holiday homes. For those who wanted to keep the land, many experimented with contract farming with big business, only to find themselves in the same trap of chemical farming and empty promises.

Out of familial gratitude, many daughters of poor farmers entered the sex trade to support their families. Many are severely exploited. Many have died from work-related sicknesses. But some, too, found love and security through marrying foreigners. They set up families and started doing business, as all couples do. We should be happy for them, shouldn't we? Why should we harass them with this proxy land ownership fervour?

Is it because it is much easier to hassle them than take to task the big investors, Thai and foreign, who are paying the land officials big time to get prime resort locations illegally?

Or is it because they prefer to turn a blind eye to the inequitable land ownership system, knowing that the politically powerful landlords are here to stay, regardless of their political colours?

Have some guts. Deal with destructive farming. Deal with big landlords. Deal with corrupt officials.

If the government cannot address the real cause of landlessness, leave those women who now have a life with their foreign spouses alone.

Sanitsuda Ekachai is Assistant Editor (Outlook), Bangkok Post.

Email: [email protected]

[Heng]

Well, as long as it doesn't end up like the Jakarta riots of May 1998..

Unlikely, different demographics. The indigenous folks here have more in common with the Native American response to losing all of their land and resources. That said, those who now own everything treat them a WHOLE lot better though, not to mention allowing them to maintain virtually all of their original cultural identity. Fusion/assimilation, not destroy and rebuild.

As for Jakarta, that accomplished nothing. Back then, the Huaren already controlled 90% of the country's wealth. The % in the present day is the same or higher.

[NanaFoods]

Typical Thai-style whining and unbridled jealousy/envy:

Unashamedly covetous of others perceived "wealth".

Blame everyone else for their own failures, starting with "foreigners"; "its not my fault".

Never stop to think "someone" thought it was advantageous to rent or sell their land in the first place.

Who are these people to dictate who can buy, sell, or rent to whom?

These particular ignoramuses are even trying to figure a way to steal land/wealth from "foreigners" to solve their gambling... erm-uh, I mean, economic woes.... but they can't bcuz the land is in the "foreigners'" Thai wive's name. Cannot contain their frustration and envy. LOL.

Pathetic.

[Thai at Heart]

Basically what the Thai government is telling the foreigner (not a thai citizen), "You are the first of your own generation in Thailand. Whatever you invest is for your future generation which will be automatically granted a Thai citizenship and the same privileges under the Thai law; same benefit (hint hint)"

In other words, the Thai government just letting you know that, if you are seriously into permanently staying in Thailand, please do so. invest all you want, buy the land you want, rent the house you want because at the dawn of the day, you sons and daughters will get to own them. HOWEVER if you are not serious about it, please don't play around with the serious people. that all.. what is the big fuss.

For those non-Asian folks here, its really hard for you guys to understand the printing of Asian culture and thinking. You are all very lucky to have been borned in your own country (whether you are native or not) and given the same privileges and benefit. Many "Asian" countries don't. And Thailand is one of the many "Asian" countrries that I known; gives the same privileges and benefits as long as you are a Thai citizen irregardless of how many fuc*ing generation you are from. How about that?

I am from Malaysia. I am the 3-third generation of Chinese decendent in Malaysia. I hold malaysia passport, citizen card, sing the national anthem, speak the national language BUT i am still being referred to as "Malaysian-Chinese" with a 2nd class citizen privileges. "Malaysian-Chinese" are not given the same benefits as "Malaysian-Muslim". Muslim gets many discount. Chinese ethnic have not discount. Muslim get health benefit from government, Chinese ethnic pays our own fees, Muslim gets all the place in local universities and scholarship. Chinese need to fork-out from our own pocket. By the way, did I mentioned that "Malaysian-Muslim" are mostly decendent which ever colonial that have ever colonized malaysia prior to our independence in the year 1957? I guessed I missed that part. Malaysian's foreigner investment law are much strictier than Thailand's. At least the Thai government won't take 30% of your initial investment and capital for themselves.

Well, my paragraph have 2 deep meaning here.

1) If you think Thailand is bad, I can name you 20 more country worst than Thailand. I know one country in SEAsia region which is 1000X more corrupted than Thailand. Opps.. I think I mentioned one of them already..

2) If you love Thailand (like if you love your wife) then stay, get serious, start a new generation in this LOS. If you hate it (divorce your wife), stop complaining, move away. Find a place that is better to suit you.. please don't stay in Thailand and hoping Thailand will change for you in the future. Is like getting a gf and hoping that she will change to be who you want to be.. Bullshit. You see the beauty in her in-perfection. Same things as we see Thailand's beauty in its own in-perfection.

Man!!!! LIFE SUCKS.

How long until the first Loog Krung PM.

Ironically, my nephew is at Eton with a Look Krung Thai, and he is off to Oxford.

The system here doesn't even know he exists.

[Heng]

Any particular reason why it should?

There is a luk krung MP. And there's n'Bamm (Banharn's gal pal) who is about 1/4 or 1/8th krung.

It can be a slow upward climb here but it's more than rewarding. If you want future generations to be successful, you have to build the foundation.

[Thai at Heart]

Any particular reason why it should?

There is a luk krung MP. And there's n'Bamm (Banharn's gal pal) who is about 1/4 or 1/8th krung.

It can be a slow upward climb here but it's more than rewarding. If you want future generations to be successful, you have to build the foundation.

You mean, better than being the best man for the job, he should network his way through.

I seem to remember a Thai/French girl a few years ago who actively wanted to be part of the Thai Olympic team and they wouldn't let her in. She won a medal (maybe silver) but the Thai's didn't want her.

[vahack]

OK, to be honest, I AM GLAD about every Farang investing money here for the only reason of making MORE money and then went bankrupt.....I am loving these guys, specially the old ones which should be retire, watch the sun and having a cold beer on their terrace. Problem is most of them CANT RELAX, they always want more more more more....IDIOTS.

We have someone of this old pals from US in Phuket. He was running a nice small restaurant, now he owns his own so called MALL.....this old fart is close to 90 but the only reason why he is still alive seems to work on his next million.....one day he will die in his <deleted>...n mall and never had fun except counting money, then I will laugh again.....

I will never understand why people always want more more more and try to fulfill that dream in Thailand, we have HOUSE FOR SALE ads on nearly every house in Phuket which is owned by a Farang, I never build my house here for the reason of winning money,

dont hate the guy because YOU lack drive and motivation.

maybe making money IS fun for him, while you stick to your heineken on the terrace.

to each his own.

[otherstuff1957]

interesting article

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: Sanitsuda Ekacai - Bangkok Post Reply with quote

Stop hunting for 'foreign' scapegoats

Writer: Sanitsuda Ekacai

Published: 13/08/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

The recent spate of news on proxy ownership of rice farmland by rich foreign investors has stirred much public anxiety and nationalist fervour, although much of the news has been based on the news sources' concerns, rather than on concrete evidence. According to these news reports, the foreigners - mainly those from oil-rich Arab countries - are buying up rice paddies in the countryside and hiring the locals to till the land in order to ensure sufficient rice supply for their countries, and to benefit financially from the various rice support schemes offered by the government.

While this story is going nowhere, reportedly due to the farmers' fear to talk, the latest news angle focuses on the foreign husbands of Thai women who, through their wives, are buying up farmland in scenic areas in order to build resorts.

Yes, we should be concerned about the farmers' rapid loss of land. But aren't we pointing the finger in the wrong direction?

If the government cannot address the real cause of landlessness, leave those women who now have a life with their foreign spouses alone.

Sanitsuda Ekachai is Assistant Editor (Outlook), Bangkok Post.

Email: [email protected]

Excellent article there that points to the root of the real problem.

I mentioned this to my wife who said that this is big news in the Thai media. However, when I mentioned Thai wives of Farangs being targeting she just looked puzzled. The story in the Thai News is all about nominees owning farmland for foreign companies, Mia Farangs are not even mentioned!

[Roachiebkk]

Foreigners taking over land in North, claims farmers' group

CHIANG MAI: -- Vast tracts of land in the North are now in the hands of foreigners, mostly through marriages to Thai women, a local farmers' group said yesterday.

Most of the land has been used for hotels and resorts put under the names of their wives, said Samarn Thadthieng, head of a group of farmers based in the Kuang River Basin in Chiang Mai and Lamphun. Plus, he said, there is an estate covering around 100 rai that only foreigners can rent.

He added that a large number of farmers also rented their farms to foreigners, and received payment in the form of rice instead of cash. In addition, he said, foreigners were also benefiting from the government's price-intervention scheme and were being given free rice seeds through other assistance programmes.

"This is dangerous, because these foreigners will turn from renters into beneficiaries exploiting Thai soil, sending remittances overseas and damaging the country's economy," he added.

He said government budgets were now being spent to benefit these foreigners instead of poor farmers, and those who have rented their land on a long-term basis to foreigners, end up encroaching on forests to obtain new land for themselves.

He called on the government and local administrative bodies to look into the matter.

In Chiang Rai, chief of a palm oil cooperative Inkham Namwong claimed that around 70 per cent of farmland and plantation in the province had been rented to foreigners. He said he was waiting for government funds to help set up a new cooperative that would help Thai farmers compete against foreign-owned palm plantations.

-- The Nation 2009-08-12

Wow, Kill all the foreigners, they are stealing our rice seed and sending the huge profits overseas. This is actually very scary xenophobic thinking and the newspapers/media may find themselves responsible in the future if things were to turn ugly and were seen as inciting violence against others.

[mrtoad]

I met my Thai wife in England 23 years ago.

She lived at the Thai embassy in Kensington, London England and was secretary to her Uncle, the Thai ambassador.

At that time my wife was earning more than me and when we married my wife sent money over to Thailand from her wages for the purchase of land and some houses.

In 2003 with our daughter, we all moved to Chiang Mai Thailand permanently.

The house that she bought and we now live is in our daughter’s name as insurance that if my wife died, I can remain in the house as a tenant of my daughter.

The property is all for my daughter in the future and all I have is my pension and savings brought over from England.

Everything above board, nothing to hide and have the documents to prove it.

I also have documents from the metropolitan police in London that shows I have no criminal records.

My daughter is now a part time policewoman with Immigration here in Chiang Mai; she deals with visa applications and with the arrests of Farangs who over stay their visas, drug dealers and other undesirables.

If one phones Chiang Mai Immigration after hours, it is my daughter’s voice on the answer machine.

Thought you'd bite.

Okay Sassie, that's a fairly detailed report which you didn't have to divulge.

However, you seem to have a fixation with Farangs who over stay visa, drug dealers and other undesirables. I'm particularly interested to hear what you class as "other undesirables". It seems that some people obviously meet a lot more undesirables than others.

Now back onto the actual topic, the ownership rights still seem rather backward to me, and are certainly open to abuse by foreigner and authorities a like. I don't think it is a big ask, for certain rights to be granted to Farangs who are married and have Thai children, do you? In the end you can be here legally, lose your job and then have 7 days to get out - regrdless of if you have dependents. Most of this BS is all about keeping the feudal system in place, which has served the powers that be so well, for so long.

Just for the record, I am here legally.

[lannarebirth]

As a farang, if you want to secure property in Thailand, here are a few suggestions;

1. consider non-titled. You can't own it anyway, so what's the big deal whether it has paper or not? I know of a few farang, wiley in Thai ways, who actually prefer non-titled to titled, mainly because of cheaper price. If considering non-title, it's best to talk with neighbors and pu yai ban where the property is. If they all say it's cool, then it probably is. Either way, don't spend more (on property and improvements) than you can afford to walk away from. When the smoke clears, and its time to check in to Pearly Gates Motel, you can probably look back and smile at the good times you had on the land you bought for pennies on the dollar (satang on the baht).

2. Whether titled or not, legally, a foreigner can own improvements on the land, but not the land itself. With that in mind, consider getting a yellow 'Tabian Ban

booklet, which is the farang equiv. of the blue one for Thais. It's a house registration in farang's name (written in Thai font). You, as a farang, probably paid for the house, so why not put the registration in your name. Plus, the yellow booklet renders bureaucratic things easier.

3. secure higher elevation property. As this is a rice-growing culture, rice paddies are held in special regard (as the OP report mentions) - so farang securing rice paddies or low-lying land might raise eyebrows among ultra-nationalists who seek a scapegoat for their perceived deprivity, or for their stupid earlier decisions.

4. Stay under the radar. Be legal, but don't wave your flag.

5. Regard such rantings as those in the OP with so many grains of salt or MSG. Whoever says such things about Palm Oil plantations in Chiang Rai (there are none) needs a tall glass of carrot juice to clear their heads.

6. Chinese Thais are here to stay - like it or not. Not much different than Mexican Americans throughout the SW USA. Best to find a way to enjoy them or at least tolerate them, and maybe they can do the same in regard to you.

7. Haven't heard mention of farang getting plastic surgery to change their features to Asian. Ok, it's not going to become a trend, but you got to admit it would put a dent in Thai xenophobia, as physical appearances are 90% of what's going on. However, even with Asian facial features, you still might get odd treatment with your hairy arms and bulky frame - though you might save 180 baht when entering a national park.

Very good post which will be largely ignored I'm afraid.

[Heng]

Any particular reason why it should?

There is a luk krung MP. And there's n'Bamm (Banharn's gal pal) who is about 1/4 or 1/8th krung.

It can be a slow upward climb here but it's more than rewarding. If you want future generations to be successful, you have to build the foundation.

You mean, better than being the best man for the job, he should network his way through.

I seem to remember a Thai/French girl a few years ago who actively wanted to be part of the Thai Olympic team and they wouldn't let her in. She won a medal (maybe silver) but the Thai's didn't want her.

Meaning, so he's at Oxford... has he done anything noteworthy other than getting into a good school? There are plenty of Thais at tier one universities all over the world, why should the system "take notice?" Do something notable, and people notice.

[JetsetBkk]

Basically what the Thai government is telling the foreigner (not a thai citizen)...

Great post!

As a farang, if you want to secure property in Thailand, here are a few suggestions;...

Ditto.

More racism your GF comments. Her mother paid off for her ID did you know that or do you even care ....

My ex-g/f was from Cambodia. Now she's Thai, thanks to dad's money under the table.

[Bruce1]

I Understood it was possible for a foreigner to legally become a Thai citizen, but you had to pay a lot of money (non-refundable if not granted), pass a language test, submit an application and wait, and only a small number of people from each country (was it 50 a year?) were approved. So why would you bother unless you were really determined, and lucky enough for your number to come up?

Chinese are known worldwide as tough, determined business people. "Better to be a lender than a borrower" is an old Chinese saying. Lazy people resent that. Much easier to rent out your land, use the money to get drunk, buy women, boast about being 'real Thai' and not worry about the future.

[LaoPo]

interesting article

Stop hunting for 'foreign' scapegoats

Just for the record:

Member Thai at Heart already posted this link here in post # 102....of which said article I posted a few posts and comments also, earlier.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Foreigners-L...85#entry2939385

http://bangkokpost.net/opinion/opinion/219...eign-scapegoats

LaoPo

[Umpatan]

Foreigners taking over land in North, claims farmers' group

CHIANG MAI: -- Vast tracts of land in the North are now in the hands of foreigners, mostly through marriages to Thai women, a local farmers' group said yesterday.

Most of the land has been used for hotels and resorts put under the names of their wives, said Samarn Thadthieng, head of a group of farmers based in the Kuang River Basin in Chiang Mai and Lamphun. Plus, he said, there is an estate covering around 100 rai that only foreigners can rent.

He added that a large number of farmers also rented their farms to foreigners, and received payment in the form of rice instead of cash. In addition, he said, foreigners were also benefiting from the government's price-intervention scheme and were being given free rice seeds through other assistance programmes.

"This is dangerous, because these foreigners will turn from renters into beneficiaries exploiting Thai soil, sending remittances overseas and damaging the country's economy," he added.

He said government budgets were now being spent to benefit these foreigners instead of poor farmers, and those who have rented their land on a long-term basis to foreigners, end up encroaching on forests to obtain new land for themselves.

He called on the government and local administrative bodies to look into the matter.

In Chiang Rai, chief of a palm oil cooperative Inkham Namwong claimed that around 70 per cent of farmland and plantation in the province had been rented to foreigners. He said he was waiting for government funds to help set up a new cooperative that would help Thai farmers compete against foreign-owned palm plantations.

-- The Nation 2009-08-12

But how is this any different from what happens in America allegorically? AIG, General Motors, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac receiving coporate bailouts to "stimulate" the economy? The devaluation of the dollar results, and and the poor take the brunt end of the deal while the rich fortune 500 executives receive large bonuses off the backs of taxpayers? The renting situation is the same where the foreigners are the large corporate executives and the thai people are getting screwed. Remeber, America is also a renter of money with US treasuries held mostly by China!

Edited August 15, 2009 by Umpatan

[loong]

But how is this any different from what happens in America allegorically?

But how does your post have any relevance to this thread?

Last time I checked this was still Thailand.

[psdone]

As a farang, if you want to secure property in Thailand, here are a few suggestions;

1. consider non-titled. You can't own it anyway, so what's the big deal whether it has paper or not? I know of a few farang, wiley in Thai ways, who actually prefer non-titled to titled, mainly because of cheaper price. If considering non-title, it's best to talk with neighbors and pu yai ban where the property is. If they all say it's cool, then it probably is. Either way, don't spend more (on property and improvements) than you can afford to walk away from. When the smoke clears, and its time to check in to Pearly Gates Motel, you can probably look back and smile at the good times you had on the land you bought for pennies on the dollar (satang on the baht).

...

Excellent post brahmburgers,

Would you or someone else kindly explain how to do (1) ? I was thinking I would need to get a 30 year lease on some land to put up a small factory, but this sounds better ...

Thanks,

Phil

[barky]

You have to be oriental to be Thai. My gf's mother is Vietnamese. She has a Thai passport and ID card etc. I jokingly said to my g/f, if your mum can be a citizen, then so can I. She quickly and sharply replied 'never!' I was curious and asked why? She said her mum looks Thai, and I don't. (My g'f really is a nice person, it's just she has it ingrained in her)

The bottom line is, this is a developing country, in every aspect. I don't wanna be Thai, I don't bang on about how I love the culture and suck up, cos to be honest, they don't always like it. I'm from England, and proud. I have a good job here, I pay tax, keep my head down, offend no one, stick to the letter of the law and mind my own business.

I have a country I can go back to any time, where I have rights that I'm happy with, people who respect me and call me their own. Better to be a outside in someone else's country than your own.

I feel bad for the foreigners here with families who have the best intentions but have absolutely no rights. But at the end of the day, If I get married and have kids, I won't do it here. I'll take my g/f back to England and be safe in the knowledge that I will be treated fairly.

Best piece of advice I ever received about Thailand was 'don't take this place seriously, have fun, do what you need to do but expect nothing in the long run'

Mai pen rai and all that.

Thank you and well said . I think you definately got a handle on the situation.

[sabaijai]

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

I do find it funny when the Thais complain to their third generation Chinese bosses in Bangkok how the foreigners that married a Thai woman are stealing their countries wealth...

[brahmburgers]

As a farang, if you want to secure property in Thailand, here are a few suggestions;

1. consider non-titled. You can't own it anyway, so what's the big deal whether it has paper or not? I know of a few farang, wiley in Thai ways, who actually prefer non-titled to titled, mainly because of cheaper price. If considering non-title, it's best to talk with neighbors and pu yai ban where the property is. If they all say it's cool, then it probably is. Either way, don't spend more (on property and improvements) than you can afford to walk away from. When the smoke clears, and its time to check in to Pearly Gates Motel, you can probably look back and smile at the good times you had on the land you bought for pennies on the dollar (satang on the baht).

...

Excellent post brahmburgers,

Would you or someone else kindly explain how to do (1) ? I was thinking I would need to get a 30 year lease on some land to put up a small factory, but this sounds better ...

Thanks,

Phil

you're welcome Phil, it's good to see that at least one person appreciates genius when they see it - ha ha, chortle.

I don't know what area you're in. I'm somewhat familiar with northernmost Thailand, and couldn't speak with confidence about what's going on in other regions. Generally, check with neighbors re; any property you're attracted to. TIT, with all folks grinding away at the local gossip mill, and everybody knows where everyone else's litter box is.

10 months ago I secured some drop-dead attractive 4 rai parcel, large trees, semi-secluded, 100 meter limestone cliffs along one side, 10 minute drive to downtown, for under $10,000. A Thai friend of mine grew up with the seller, and I was shown (and given) a formal receipt showing the seller's father (now deceased) got the land for 64 baht sixteen years earlier. No, I didn't delete a few zeros, that sixty four, as in "will you still love me, will you still hug me...."

So, when I hear of farang in Pattaya/Bangkok/Phuket securing pieces of property for many times that amount (and almost always in their wife's name), I have to stiffle a chuckle. ....especially looking at statistics showing how long the average Thai/farang couple stay together, and how often the farang winds up with the property he paid for (right around zero %, if all the sob stories are half true) - when the couples split up.

I probably didn't answer Phil's question very well, but I appreciate sharing when I can.

Edited August 15, 2009 by brahmburgers

[topben]

As they say in cricket, look in the book.

If it is a Thai name on the paper, that is who owns it.

If they really look hard and deep into who actually owns 70% of the decent farming land in the North, it would make very instructive reading who are the top 5 family owners. The farmers of Thailand are not being exploited by any foreigners, the people ripping them off are to be found much closer to home.

This kind of silly sentiment is starting to be a daily occurence, and I would hope that this nationalisitic rhetoric is only designed to divert attention in the news from the real problems of the day.

it's all politics , you know. divert attention from the real problems besieging the country. best scapegoats? today farangs, tomorrow drug peddlars, another day, thaksin, and yet another day, god-knows who or what. it's a circus churned out by the masters of the papparazis. it is what we call, he who pays the piper calls the tune.the band will just play on..........

[topben]

Hmmm, when I lived in a rice-farming village near Chiang Mai in the mid-80s, the peasants used to complain about the foreigners buying up land, and cheating them in the market place. They meant Bangkok Chinese.

If the government permits the Chinese to buy land in the north, as the Chinese do in Burma, then yes a lot of land will move from Thai to foreign hands. Northern Burma is said to be a like a Chinese colony now. Look at the investment China is proposing to put into Thailand and Laos, and China is, or has, sent Mandarin volunteer teachers to provide free language lessons to the Thais and one would be almost led to think that China has a plan for Thailand and Laos.

why so? explain then the farang bashing now....who is behind all these bashings? the bangkok chinese? sondhi limtongkul n friends, the media moguls who own some of these forums? the yellow shirts who shut down the airports recently with impunity? are not the northern thais ethnically chinese too once upon a time?

So true TiloKarat but guess what is Thailand since hundreds of years! Thaigovernment is Chinesethai, Buisiness is 95% in Chinesethai hands, all the mayor properties and wealth is owned by Chinesethais, the best educated citizens are Chinesethai, the Elite in your Country is Chinesethai, most movies and all the bu..l..it soap operas in TV are made by Chinesethai....so Thailand never was colonialized????

China dont need weapons to win a war in an Asian country, they never did, they never will,

[NanLaew]

Basically what the Thai government is telling the foreigner (not a thai citizen), "You are the first of your own generation in Thailand. Whatever you invest is for your future generation which will be automatically granted a Thai citizenship and the same privileges under the Thai law; same benefit (hint hint)"

In other words, the Thai government just letting you know that, if you are seriously into permanently staying in Thailand, please do so. invest all you want, buy the land you want, rent the house you want because at the dawn of the day, you sons and daughters will get to own them. HOWEVER if you are not serious about it, please don't play around with the serious people. that all.. what is the big fuss.

For those non-Asian folks here, its really hard for you guys to understand the printing of Asian culture and thinking. You are all very lucky to have been borned in your own country (whether you are native or not) and given the same privileges and benefit. Many "Asian" countries don't. And Thailand is one of the many "Asian" countrries that I known; gives the same privileges and benefits as long as you are a Thai citizen irregardless of how many fuc*ing generation you are from. How about that?

I am from Malaysia. I am the 3-third generation of Chinese decendent in Malaysia. I hold malaysia passport, citizen card, sing the national anthem, speak the national language BUT i am still being referred to as "Malaysian-Chinese" with a 2nd class citizen privileges. "Malaysian-Chinese" are not given the same benefits as "Malaysian-Muslim". Muslim gets many discount. Chinese ethnic have not discount. Muslim get health benefit from government, Chinese ethnic pays our own fees, Muslim gets all the place in local universities and scholarship. Chinese need to fork-out from our own pocket. By the way, did I mentioned that "Malaysian-Muslim" are mostly decendent which ever colonial that have ever colonized malaysia prior to our independence in the year 1957? I guessed I missed that part. Malaysian's foreigner investment law are much strictier than Thailand's. At least the Thai government won't take 30% of your initial investment and capital for themselves.

Well, my paragraph have 2 deep meaning here.

1) If you think Thailand is bad, I can name you 20 more country worst than Thailand. I know one country in SEAsia region which is 1000X more corrupted than Thailand. Opps.. I think I mentioned one of them already..

2) If you love Thailand (like if you love your wife) then stay, get serious, start a new generation in this LOS. If you hate it (divorce your wife), stop complaining, move away. Find a place that is better to suit you.. please don't stay in Thailand and hoping Thailand will change for you in the future. Is like getting a gf and hoping that she will change to be who you want to be.. Bullshit. You see the beauty in her in-perfection. Same things as we see Thailand's beauty in its own in-perfection.

Man!!!! LIFE SUCKS.

Excellent, truly excellent post! Now, will all the whining, hard done by, foreigners crying racism, xenophobia and hatred, those who STILL want instant Thai land ownership, citizenship or other recognition that they are a good and decent chap, took a local lass out of service and have 'invested' here and somehow can't appreciate that they will always be foreigners in a foreign land stick their pacifiers back in their cake holes and <deleted>.... PLEASE???