Oklahoma Woman Works To Free Slaves In Bangkok’s

[mahtin]

"The old game, I suspect, is beginning to play out in the Bible Belt."

[StatlerandWaldorf]

The Well had rescued 65 women at the end of the program this year, she said.

Suuuuuure....and you're paying them all 50,000 baht per month, and they're STILL secretly working at Soi Cowboy behind your back. What a retarded article.

Well I have rescued 65 girls also (approx over the years) at an average of 2000 baht per girl. So - yes - she is paying way over the top.

Oh, and I wonder how many guys out there have paid one of these young ladies a fair amount of baht per month to stay out of this terrible buisness, only to find that as soon as their ass is on the plane they're straight back on the pole. Thats why I prefer to rescue them for just one night each

Absolutely, one step at a time my friend, Rome wasn't built in a day. I think a good plan would be to rescue as many girls as you can, one night at a time.

[sanmiguellight]

from a neutral point of view, it's kind of amazing the immediate negative reactions this post got

Whats a neutral point of view, please explain this?

And the reactions are to the fact that it is said by this lady that many sex workers in Nana, Cowboy and Patpong are trafficed and enslaved for sexual exploitation, when for anyone such as people like you and me who have been there know this is an absolute lie and the men/women who work as prostitutes are there an their own free will.

[pavlovsdog]

Lets start a campaign. Everyone reading this should undertake to rescue at least one girl or guy for at least one night a week. And if you really like them, then become their sponser.

NB anyone currently sponsering a person or persons from said industry would be exempt from further long term sponserships (rescues)

[Maizefarmer]

One needs to define what is mean't by enslavement: does it mean tied down with rope and handcuff's or does it mean social/economic circumstances that amount to "you will pay the debt off and co-operate with us, or this or that will happen to the family back home", or does it mean simply a set of financial circumstances back home that leave the yong lady feeling that there is no way forward financialy, but to make the free choice and go on the game

How is enslavement defined?

Thailand has several types of sex trade markets for lack of a better way of putting it - there is the market that caters for ex-pats and Western tourists. Their is the market that caters for Thai's and there is the market that caters for neighbouring Asian workers, and then there are degrees of overlap between these markets.

"Enslavement" is far more prevalent in the Thai/Thai and Thai/Asian market than it is in the Thai/Western market, as is the incident of STD - if we are to accept the conventional defineation of enslavement. I think the percentage of Thai girls forced into the ex-pat sex market, is really very very small indeed.

If Ms. McGee wanted to make an impact on those enslaved in the trade against their will, the bright lights of Pat Pong and Patong beach is not the enviroment to be working in, and surely she must know this herself by now. It makes a nice story because, as it involves Westerners, supporters of her efforts will be able to identify with what she is doing - but it does not represent that area of the sex industry where the real problems she harps on about exist.

The other thing to keep in mind about prostitution in Thailand, is that unlike in the West it is very much an open-ended decision for many of the girls.

Whereas in the West prostitution is associated with all sorts of social evils like abuse and drug addiction, it's interesting to note that these social eveils are not a characteristic of prostitution in Thailand in the same way they are in the West. In Thailand the overwhelming motive for many of the girls is escape from poverty - nothing to do with abuse/addiction and the other social evils we come to associate with prostitution.

The point of all this is, we need to be careful in Thailand as many of the Western perceptions that have come to grow up around prostitution are not really applicable here as they are back in the West. There is a big difference.

While in the West we assocaite a whole range of "social evils" with the motivation to go on the game, in Thailand the consequences of going on the game become the "social evils" that are the motive for many girls in the West. i.e. the sad reality for most of the Thai girls who go on the game in Thailand, is that unless by their late 30's or early 40's they have got lucky and set themselves up for life with an obliging ex-pat partner, they have missed the oppurtunity. For them, its pretty late in life to be starting out with a new career with much hope of been able to ensure they are fiancialy secure in their old age.

And that is the long term "lot" for most of the girls who spend their youth on the game in Thailand - the problems come after working in the bright lights industry, as opposed to it been the motivation for them to work in the industry in the first place. For Thailand that is still, and will be for a long time, a very small percentage of all North Eastern single girls, but its a figure that grows each year, and a percentage that is larger each generation through increasing social acceptability of the practise.

It's true socio-economic impact on the frabic of Thai society will take years to home and roost. It will be along time before the figures are large enough to have any siginifcant impact, but one day they will.

[bonobo]

However, and this may not be PC to write, I doubt very much that the majority or even a significant minority of the sex trade workers are "slaves."

The article is a typical example of news in the holiday season.

However, I agree with your "majority" but disagree with "significant minority". There IS such a significant minority (kept as slaves in rural brothels) although not visible for Farang, whether living in or outside Thailand.

Although a very long time ago I witnessed this for myself in the dark sois of rural Thailand in the south; the girls were chained to their beds, some of them shocking young.

I wasn't prepared to see what I saw and couldn't believe my eyes....TiT! I was sickened and laughed off because of my disgusted comments to the Thai who took me there; they found it quite funny...... Sex slavery doesn't just happen in India and/or other countries...in Thailand as well.

All these so called well fare people trying to rescue sex workers in the Farang touristic areas have no clue. They wouldn't be allowed in the "real" world of sex in Thailand. They would be disposed of by the powerful sex bosses in a split second

LaoPo

In response to your and Maizefarmer's posts, I guess I should be more speicific and state that in the types of sex markets to which she refers to in this article (Patpong, Soi Cowboy, etc.), in other words, areas which cater to the western target market, and I would add in the places which cater to the Japanese as well, I doubt a significant minority of women are forced into this trade.  As far as the Thai market,  I have don't have any concept of what is going on, but the little I have heard would confirm what you post.  And this situation is deplorable and should be fought not only by social-leaning do-gooders, but by everyone.

[wilsongbrown]

from a neutral point of view, it's kind of amazing the immediate negative reactions this post got

You were amazed by it?

[Neeranam]

"You look at these women, and their eyes are sad, empty, fearful or angry.”

I walked down soi nana recently, and she's right.

Also, I couldn't believe how old and ugly they were. Then again most of the tourists were sad, ugly men.

[sassienie]

the lady she is hugging looks like a tom

wonder if ...

http://www.facebook.com/people/Celeste-McGee/522248618

Probably and I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s a vegetarian as well.

What these morons don’t seem to understand is that with most of these girls who are involved with the sex industry are in it of their own choosing and have no wish to be saved, as a matter of fact many actually resent it.

It’s the same scenario as with those old gits who meet some young totty in a bar and believe that these girls will fall head over heels for them if they offer an escape from a life of what they consider to be depravity, sin and institutionalised prostitution.. Similar to buying a dog from a dog rescue centre and trying to make it into a pet loyal to it`s new master.

If these people think that in the hearts and minds of these girls their true desires is to live in a normal home, have a husband & kids and work a 9 to 5 office or shop assistant job, are very much mistaken

They’re all living in cloud cuckoo land.

One can equate the condition with those who become involved in cult religions and even long term prisoners after being institutionalised in that system for many years have been reluctant to leave what they have known as home when their term is up. Once moulded into an environment and way of life, it is almost impossible to reverse the process.

It’s all about that these do gooders consider themselves as the righteous because they believe third world countries such as Thailand are under educated, uncivilised and need to be shown the light and the errors of their ways.

These bearers of light and goodness do not study the facts and expert reports, but prefer to become self appointed authorities on subjects they know nothing about.

As some posters have quoted, they should sort out the problems in their own back yards first.

Edited August 15, 2009 by sassienie

[tropo]

from a neutral point of view, it's kind of amazing the immediate negative reactions this post got

I'm amazed that you should be amazed over reactions to this post.

[tropo]

Oh, and I wonder how many guys out there have paid one of these young ladies a fair amount of baht per month to stay out of this terrible buisness, only to find that as soon as their ass is on the plane they're straight back on the pole.

Let's forget being PC for a moment.

Q: Why do you think well paid (supported) girls head back to the pole in such a hurry?

A: They enjoy their work.

[Neeranam]

from a neutral point of view, it's kind of amazing the immediate negative reactions this post got

I'm amazed that you should be amazed over reactions to this post.

I'm not amazed as I've seen it before - they're all sex addicts in denial and if someone tries to take their supply away they get upset.

Good on the woman.

[Neeranam]

Oh, and I wonder how many guys out there have paid one of these young ladies a fair amount of baht per month to stay out of this terrible buisness, only to find that as soon as their ass is on the plane they're straight back on the pole.

Let's forget being PC for a moment.

Q: Why do you think well paid (supported) girls head back to the pole in such a hurry?

A: They enjoy their work.

Rubbish - most are addicted to drugs or alcohol and it's the only way they know to get money.

If they are supported by Fred the 50 year old fat baldy butcher from Scunthorpe, they'll maybe go back to find a better model.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Neeranam

[Maizefarmer]

Oh, and I wonder how many guys out there have paid one of these young ladies a fair amount of baht per month to stay out of this terrible buisness, only to find that as soon as their ass is on the plane they're straight back on the pole.

Let's forget being PC for a moment.

Q: Why do you think well paid (supported) girls head back to the pole in such a hurry?

A: They enjoy their work.

Rubbish - most are addicted to drugs or alcohol and it's the only way they know to get money.

I'm sorry Neeranam - while there is drug addiction amongst the girls, it is not the primary motive: many of the girls are quite hopeless in running their financial affairs.

Their lifestyle is one of "money in one hand and out the other hand" and they are constantly in debt and under pressure to support the extended family back home (and not to few of them loose a sizaeble portion of their earnings palying cards whenever they get a chance).

It's this motive which I believe, and which social scientists who have studied the "business" have found to be far more significant than drug addiction - at least in the Western patronised bar/sex industry. Bar owners have a big issue with girls who are addicted to drugs and alcohol - speak to any of them in confidence and they will tell you the same thing: girls who are addicted to drugs or alcohol are more trouble than they are worth - they are unreliable attendees, they cause problems with clients, and they are a potential problem for the business when the boys in brown pay their occassional visits. They have little time for them, and they are by and large fast moved onto the Thai and other Asian bright lights businesses.

So, while it does occur, the motive for the majority of the girls he head straight back to the "pole" is a hopeless inability to keep their financial affairs in order (of which part may well be keeping the dealer paid up!).

[zorro1]

agreed they are addicted to alcohol and drugs but far less then western whores or western men for that matter. Just go for a walk down kings cross in Sydney and see the walking dead hookers, a far cry from the smiling tight and healthy looking girls In Thailand. My experiences with normal Thai ladies is that they over sexed and that goes for girls in Asia in general .

[Maizefarmer]

Zorro ,,,, and to add to what you have said, I think its important to note a very significant differenace between prostitution here in Thailand and elswhere in the world - like Kings Cross in Australia, or Kings Cross in the UK - many of the girls who work in those Western enviroments do so to earn income to support addiction problems, whereas by contrast in Thailand (which was the point I was trying to make earlier), many of the girls who work in the business, do not do so because of addiction problems, but because of grinding poverty back home. That of course is not to say that the bar business and the social conditions that surround the industry do lead to addiction problems in some girls, just that the initial motives for getting into the game tend to contrast with those in Western cultures (..... and before someone says it, yes, they are exceptions in both enviroments)

[zorro1]

Zorro ,,,, and to add to what you have said, I think its important to note a very significant differenace between prostitution here in Thailand and elswhere in the world - like Kings Cross in Australia, or Kings Cross in the UK - many of the girls who work in those Western enviroments do so to earn income to support addiction problems, whereas by contrast in Thailand (which was the point I was trying to make earlier), many of the girls who work in the business, do not do so because of addiction problems, but because of grinding poverty back home. That of course is not to say that the bar business and the social conditions that surround the industry do lead to addiction problems in some girls, just that the initial motives for getting into the game tend to contrast with those in Western cultures (..... and before someone says it, yes, they are exceptions in both enviroments)

Absolutely maizefarmer summed up well. What do you guys think a lady drink consists of? Cordial usually unless of course its party time 10pm-2am but thats just normal social behavior, but then again I'm no expert

[LaoPo]

However, and this may not be PC to write, I doubt very much that the majority or even a significant minority of the sex trade workers are "slaves."

The article is a typical example of news in the holiday season.

However, I agree with your "majority" but disagree with "significant minority". There IS such a significant minority (kept as slaves in rural brothels) although not visible for Farang, whether living in or outside Thailand.

Although a very long time ago I witnessed this for myself in the dark sois of rural Thailand in the south; the girls were chained to their beds, some of them shocking young.

I wasn't prepared to see what I saw and couldn't believe my eyes....TiT! I was sickened and laughed off because of my disgusted comments to the Thai who took me there; they found it quite funny...... Sex slavery doesn't just happen in India and/or other countries...in Thailand as well.

All these so called well fare people trying to rescue sex workers in the Farang touristic areas have no clue. They wouldn't be allowed in the "real" world of sex in Thailand. They would be disposed of by the powerful sex bosses in a split second

LaoPo

In response to your and Maizefarmer's posts, I guess I should be more speicific and state that in the types of sex markets to which she refers to in this article (Patpong, Soi Cowboy, etc.), in other words, areas which cater to the western target market, and I would add in the places which cater to the Japanese as well, I doubt a significant minority of women are forced into this trade.  As far as the Thai market,  I have don't have any concept of what is going on, but the little I have heard would confirm what you post.  And this situation is deplorable and should be fought not only by social-leaning do-gooders, but by everyone.

I agree with what you say but I don't think it's a good idea that Farang people should intervene in the Thai sex industry.

I think it's up to the Thai -Government!- to do something about it.

In all major cities of Europe there are forced sex workers; it would be the same if Thai do-gooders travel to Europe and "rescue" sex workers....

The world upside down.

LaoPo

[cdnvic]

harder to convert back home.

in thailand they are more vulnerable.

Not really. In Thailand it's about money, back in Oklahoma you'd probably find addiction the driving force.

I would guess the impoverished have an easier time resisting than the addicts.

[Maizefarmer]

However, and this may not be PC to write, I doubt very much that the majority or even a significant minority of the sex trade workers are "slaves."

The article is a typical example of news in the holiday season.

However, I agree with your "majority" but disagree with "significant minority". There IS such a significant minority (kept as slaves in rural brothels) although not visible for Farang, whether living in or outside Thailand.

Although a very long time ago I witnessed this for myself in the dark sois of rural Thailand in the south; the girls were chained to their beds, some of them shocking young.

I wasn't prepared to see what I saw and couldn't believe my eyes....TiT! I was sickened and laughed off because of my disgusted comments to the Thai who took me there; they found it quite funny...... Sex slavery doesn't just happen in India and/or other countries...in Thailand as well.

All these so called well fare people trying to rescue sex workers in the Farang touristic areas have no clue. They wouldn't be allowed in the "real" world of sex in Thailand. They would be disposed of by the powerful sex bosses in a split second

LaoPo

In response to your and Maizefarmer's posts, I guess I should be more speicific and state that in the types of sex markets to which she refers to in this article (Patpong, Soi Cowboy, etc.), in other words, areas which cater to the western target market, and I would add in the places which cater to the Japanese as well, I doubt a significant minority of women are forced into this trade.  As far as the Thai market,  I have don't have any concept of what is going on, but the little I have heard would confirm what you post.  And this situation is deplorable and should be fought not only by social-leaning do-gooders, but by everyone.

I agree with what you say but I don't think it's a good idea that Farang people should intervene in the Thai sex industry.

I think it's up to the Thai -Government!- to do something about it.

In all major cities of Europe there are forced sex workers; it would be the same if Thai do-gooders travel to Europe and "rescue" sex workers....

The world upside down.

LaoPo

.. my issue with "do-gooders" is that they link their motives, intentions with religon - can't they just get on with it unconditionly.

[tropo]

Oh, and I wonder how many guys out there have paid one of these young ladies a fair amount of baht per month to stay out of this terrible buisness, only to find that as soon as their ass is on the plane they're straight back on the pole.

Let's forget being PC for a moment.

Q: Why do you think well paid (supported) girls head back to the pole in such a hurry?

A: They enjoy their work.

Rubbish - most are addicted to drugs or alcohol and it's the only way they know to get money.

If they are supported by Fred the 50 year old fat baldy butcher from Scunthorpe, they'll maybe go back to find a better model.

You are just about as naive as our puritanical hero from Oklahoma.

You obviously have an extremely limited insight into the psyche of Thai bargirls.

[tropo]

many of the girls who work in the business, do not do so because of addiction problems, but because of grinding poverty back home.

Everyone thinks the girls work in the sex industry because of grinding proverty back home. Although poverty does come into it, the main reason is that girls can have a very high income for doing very little and there is always the possibility of nabbing a Farang to support them. Pattaya in particular is like Disneyland for young females.

Have a look around bar districts to see how much money these girls spend on shopping, entertainment and their Thai male partners. Most of them own motorbikes and live well. Only a small percentage of money makes it back to the families in most cases.

[sokal]

Oh, and I wonder how many guys out there have paid one of these young ladies a fair amount of baht per month to stay out of this terrible buisness, only to find that as soon as their ass is on the plane they're straight back on the pole.

Let's forget being PC for a moment.

Q: Why do you think well paid (supported) girls head back to the pole in such a hurry?

A: They enjoy their work.

Rubbish - most are addicted to drugs or alcohol and it's the only way they know to get money.

If they are supported by Fred the 50 year old fat baldy butcher from Scunthorpe, they'll maybe go back to find a better model.

The girl I was with was a really hot 25 year old and she has been asked to get married to regular wealthy guys about 3 or 4 times. Just for the heck of it I asked if she wanted to be with me for a long time.( I am 25 too) she said " maybe " but I am young now and I will miss my friends too much.

Also she had a brand new Yamaha Fino along with a $300 camera with bluetooth. And 2 of her other friends had brand new Finos. These girls said to my face that they knew that they would eventually have to get married to a farang for long term support. But for now its party time !

Edited August 15, 2009 by sokal

[Boo]

yeah what a total cow for choosing to try to help people. (that was sarcasm in case it didn't come through)

Who cares why she is doing it or why she thinks she needs to, the fact that she is trying to help is a positive thing imo. If she helps only one sex worker who wants out of the game, then her mission is a success.

[mc2]

she looks like a horse, not a cow

Edited August 15, 2009 by mc2

[Boo]

Hmm I find this need by some posters to make insults to this person based on her looks or by making snide speculation on her sexual preference to be quite telling of some posters agenda. If you disagree with her campaign then do so without resorting to the usual disparaging remarks.

[britmaveric]

Shame she couldnt help those that need it, concentrate on the real problem areas where the thai lads go. Course prob be dead if she went that route. The ladies she helped most likely back the very next day plying their trade. Well intentioned, but totally naive. Wonder why she doesnt help her fellow yanks closer to home???

[sokal]

yeah what a total cow for choosing to try to help people. (that was sarcasm in case it didn't come through)

Who cares why she is doing it or why she thinks she needs to, the fact that she is trying to help is a positive thing imo. If she helps only one sex worker who wants out of the game, then her mission is a success.

She is the kind of person that gives Thailand a bad name. She is doing unwarranted harm to the reputations of expats and tourists.

[LivinginKata]

Remarks about American politics have been removed as off topic.

[tropo]

yeah what a total cow for choosing to try to help people. (that was sarcasm in case it didn't come through)

Who cares why she is doing it or why she thinks she needs to, the fact that she is trying to help is a positive thing imo.

Yeah, what a total cow (no sarcasm intended).

You reckon she is helping, but she's the one who needs help (education). She's about as clued up as newbies who visit bars thinking the girls love them.