Thai Customs Dept Facing Overhaul

[PEP]

No mention regarding the eradication of "tea money"

I am a loss to what constitutes "Tea Money"?

Does an upfront payment of 350.000 Baht for a guaranteed job in the current Police Recrutiment Campaign fall into this category or is this Corruption?

Is 2000 Baht for a Driver's Licence (license to kill!) to a person who has never even sat behind a steering wheel Corruption or Tea Money?

Any enlightment as to where the line would be interesting.

[Arkady]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

Good post and straight to the point! You will be told I'am sure by the less informed that if you don't like it here go home...what expats do not seem to realise is that all the shit that happens here will affect us all in some way or another.Also like myself I always try to say what would be good for Thailand but to be honest I getting to the point where I think I'am wasting my breath(or fingers) as the way things are going here it would only seem to be going more downhill! The major point you seem to make is that Thais do not seem to realise the problems they have.....Corruption only makes NATIONS POORER!

All the Thais I mentioned the King Power scams to were convinced that the foreigners stole the goods and that King Power and Thailand are being unfairly victimized by foreigners. They were obviously quite convincing in the Thai media and these kind of crooks know how to spin things to appeal to Thai bigotry. An example of this kind of spin and bigotry involving another type of foreign visitor is is how readily nearly all non-Muslim Thais believed that it was necessary to mistreat and kill the Rohingya because they were all terrorists being infiltrated into the South.

The King Power scams are in fact a good starting point because they illustrate the big picture chain of corruption and ignorance in Thai society. King Power is allowed to operate monopolistic concessions at Suvarnabhumi and allegedly traffic a huge volume of contraband licquor domestically and no one can touch them, even when they aid and abet the illegal detention and and extortion of tourists, who, even if in the unlikely event that they really are shoplifters, are entitled to due process. The reason for this is clear. The owner has cultivated very effective political connections through lavishly sponsoring politicians, first Thaksin and now Newin and his blue shirts. Newin can protect him from anything as long as Newin has political power and the businessman continues to help finance him. The Democrat Party, though far from clean and honest, is the cleanest and most honest you get in Thai politics but they rely on Newin to stay in power, even though he is a banned politician who epitomizes the corruption and gangster style politics that the Democrats claim are their avowed enemies. Newin holds the balance because he is an expert vote buyer in the most populous Isaan region, who has actually been caught red handed doing this twice and was highly valued by Thaksin for his vote buying expertise. Rural Thais sell their votes to crooks like Newin and Thaksin because they have no education and don't understand how corruption damages them personally and prevents them from developing. Crooked politicians along with the Democrats and the so called elite are united in ensuring that the peasants never receive enough education to be able to see through any of them. And so it goes on while other countries in the region are starting to get their acts together, leaving Thailand to wallow in its cesspool of corruption and backwardness along with its close friend, Burma.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Arkady

[topben]

Now, about the Tea Money matter. When does that become subject to a "crack down"?

soon, all depts will face the crack-down........or the minister will have to look for a new job.

[Thai at Heart]

They certainly need a new broom at the Customs Dept. Corruption and inefficiency there are a huge drag on Thailand's economic productivity. It is somehow appropriate that the iniative should come from the Finance Ministry, since the current minister's father served for many years as director-general of the Customs Dept and was eventually ousted from the job due to allegations of corruption.

The comic irony of Thailand raises it's head again.

[Pattel]

A few years ago some friends of mine were emigrating to the LOS.

On checking with the Embassy they were told that previously owned household goods that arrived in Thailand in containers were Tax Free.

They ordered Pickfords to come and pack their belongings and then they came to Pattaya to do some serious house hunting while they waited for their goods to arrive at Lam Chabang.

When they arrived at the port to collect the container they were told by Customs there was the equivalent of 400 Pounds to pay. They informed the Customs officer what they were told by the Embassy and were told it didn't matter what the Embassy said.

When they said they would appeal the man laughed and said go ahead it will take months and the goods wont be released until the matter was settled.

They paid.

On a smaller note, I was bringing in a Hedge Trimmer and the Customs Officer said "receipt or no receipt" when I said whats the difference he said "1000 Baht or 500 Baht"

I wont say which one I went for.

[artspacecm]

How timely. Too bad they couldn't accommodate this change yesterday when I had to pay out close to $400. USD to get 2 boxes containing artwork that I MADE out of customs. The value placed on it from a gallery in Singapore was $400 for 4 works of art they were returning to me. They only bothered opening 1 box, yet claimed I owed them money equivalent to the amount it was valued at for insurance purposes. Nevermind that I didn't purchase the work. I inquired repeatedly as to why they charged that much and how they figured out what corrupt amount of money to steal from me. I could get no answers.

Luckily someone working really hard in their office photocopied "Hello Kitty" stickers onto the "luxury tax" itemized bill. They're so helpful.

[Maxxamum]

Has there been any recent incidents involving travellers carrying laptops etc for their own personal use being hassled by customs staff on arrival? I would not react well to this kind of shakedown.

I traveled to Thailand in July and no one bothered me about my laptop or other electronics I carried for personal use.

[topben]

Has there been any recent incidents involving travellers carrying laptops etc for their own personal use being hassled by customs staff on arrival? I would not react well to this kind of shakedown.

Good question yes.. ?

yes, they wanted to confiscate my laptop using the reason that it was a security measure during the asean ministerial meeting recently here in thailand. beware if you carry a brand new laptop...............at the airport especially. this is a common problem in the airports in this region...not only thailand. ...

[ianh68]

I personally haven't been hassled by Thai customs too much over the years (less, in fact, than than by U.S. customs) and have certainly brought my share of stuff in without paying duty.

It's the only country I've ever checked into by boat though where the official customs form had a space for declaring the number of taels of opium aboard so it is probably overdue for some modernization.

Love it!

[Thai at Heart]

I remember paying duty on the import of a child's safety seat which was a gift from a family member.

They designated it childrens equipment i.e. toys/clothing irrespective of the fact that it would potentially save the life of one of their citizens.

[Petsma]

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use.

Alot of the MP's were forced to pay money back, resigned or got sacked when this issue arrised. Can you see the same punishment being given out in Thailand?

[topben]

A few years ago some friends of mine were emigrating to the LOS.

On checking with the Embassy they were told that previously owned household goods that arrived in Thailand in containers were Tax Free.

They ordered Pickfords to come and pack their belongings and then they came to Pattaya to do some serious house hunting while they waited for their goods to arrive at Lam Chabang.

When they arrived at the port to collect the container they were told by Customs there was the equivalent of 400 Pounds to pay. They informed the Customs officer what they were told by the Embassy and were told it didn't matter what the Embassy said. refused to pay the "extras"

When they said they would appeal the man laughed and said go ahead it will take months and the goods wont be released until the matter was settled.

They paid.

On a smaller note, I was bringing in a Hedge Trimmer and the Customs Officer said "receipt or no receipt" when I said whats the difference he said "1000 Baht or 500 Baht"

I wont say which one I went for.

another farang neighbor who shipped his car here had his car laying in the sun in the port for three years when he refused to pay the "extras" though his shipping documents were intact. they - the ass-h----- simply made him wait to eternity ---sad thing was he got his car much much later in a battered condition minus some missing major parts.......

[Maxxamum]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

Good post and straight to the point! You will be told I'am sure by the less informed that if you don't like it here go home...what expats do not seem to realise is that all the shit that happens here will affect us all in some way or another.Also like myself I always try to say what would be good for Thailand but to be honest I getting to the point where I think I'am wasting my breath(or fingers) as the way things are going here it would only seem to be going more downhill! The major point you seem to make is that Thais do not seem to realise the problems they have.....Corruption only makes NATIONS POORER!

All the Thais I mentioned the King Power scams to were convinced that the foreigners stole the goods and that King Power and Thailand are being unfairly victimized by foreigners. They were obviously quite convincing in the Thai media and these kind of crooks know how to spin things to appeal to Thai bigotry. An example of this kind of spin and bigotry involving another type of foreign visitor is is how readily nearly all non-Muslim Thais believed that it was necessary to mistreat and kill the Rohingya because they were all terrorists being infiltrated into the South.

The King Power scams are in fact a good starting point because they illustrate the big picture chain of corruption and ignorance in Thai society. King Power is allowed to operate monopolistic concessions at Suvarnabhumi and allegedly traffic a huge volume of contraband licquor domestically and no one can touch them, even when they aid and abet the illegal detention and and extortion of tourists, who, even if in the unlikely event that they really are shoplifters, are entitled to due process. The reason for this is clear. The owner has cultivated very effective political connections through lavishly sponsoring politicians, first Thaksin and now Newin and his blue shirts. Newin can protect him from anything as long as Newin has political power and the businessman continues to help finance him. The Democrat Party, though far from clean and honest, is the cleanest and most honest you get in Thai politics but they rely on Newin to stay in power, even though he is a banned politician who epitomizes the corruption and gangster style politics that the Democrats claim are their avowed enemies. Newin holds the balance because he is an expert vote buyer in the most populous Isaan region, who has actually been caught red handed doing this twice and was highly valued by Thaksin for his vote buying expertise. Rural Thais sell their votes to crooks like Newin and Thaksin because they have no education and don't understand how corruption damages them personally and prevents them from developing. Crooked politicians along with the Democrats and the so called elite are united in ensuring that the peasants never receive enough education to be able to see through any of them. And so it goes on while other countries in the region are starting to get their acts together, leaving Thailand to wallow in its cesspool of corruption and backwardness along with its close friend, Burma.

My wife and her family are from Issan and are all red. They love Thaksin and say when he is allowed to come back, the price of rubber will go up, the price of ecalyptus will go up and everything in la la farm land will be great. They do not care that he 'eats' money, everybody does it and I just shake my head in wonderment. They believe what the red shirts tell them to believe and fail to see or care about the bigger picture.

[bonobo]

Has there been any recent incidents involving travellers carrying laptops etc for their own personal use being hassled by customs staff on arrival? I would not react well to this kind of shakedown.

I carry my laptop in & our of Thailand every other month - have done for years & never had even the slightest hitch or problem with Thai Customs - or any other customs for that matter.

I have to second that.  I have come in and out of Thailand 6 or 8 times a year for most of the past 8 years, and I have never had one problem with customs with my laptop nor my regular luggage.  I have had huge problems in Russia in the past, and I have witnessed outright corruption in Lagos.  I even have to go through the tedious process of a secondary check in the US on every trip (as I always declare my commercial samples), but I have never once had a problem in Thailand.

[cdnvic]

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use.

Alot of the MP's were forced to pay money back, resigned or got sacked when this issue arrised. Can you see the same punishment being given out in Thailand?

Only because the UK hasn't invented inactive posts.

Gordon Brown notwithstanding.

[KhunVee]

Meanwhile, Wisut said the department would cut out a lot of unnecessary paperwork by eliminating redundant forms duplicating information submitted to the department, such as the Cargo Control Form used at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

-- The Nation 2009-08-20

Meaning: In stead of stapling a 500 THB bill to 2 documents, now you can save on staples and just staple a 1.000 THB bill to one document to get your stamp.

Makes sense to me.

[Thai at Heart]

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use.

What a typical retort. "They do it too, so it is ok for me." This is reserved for the kindergarten playground.

The story was dug up by some great investigative journalism and has become a story which has led to enormous investigation and naming and shaming of those who broke the rules. The PM's lack of balls in handling it will have proven to be the last nail in his party's electoral coffin. Some MP's entire political careers are over and for that I am very glad.

Cases are still open as to whether there will be charges brought. And no, I don't expect an MP to be able to buy off the system to get away with it. The entire system here perpetuates the need for dodgy underhand dealings.

At least some other countries have tried for many years to keep their systems as clean as they can. Thailand at the moment is just starting to lift the lid on the cess pit that is corruption here.

Please feel free to let Thailand climb the index.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

[liloldspirut]

As a past victim of the Customs Deptartment I say it's about time!!I just hope it's not all show and no go and that these crooks are not just reassigned somewhere. In Xiamen, China the corrupt guy that headed the Customs Department there was convicted and executed. Maybe the Chinese have the right idea!!!

I agree with you, Anyone who takes advantage of prople in this manor should be executed.

[munirkn]

LONG LIVE THE "TEA MONEY"

as long as human beings live and take tea, there will be "tea money" and its good bcoz in some countries its almost impossible to get YOUR RIGHT without tea money. its only and fast track to your goal. otherwise you have to wait till your death.

[Foggy Bottom]

Important topic - 1,555 people reading it right now.

As a foreign business person who had a run in with Customs earlier this decade, for trying to insist on being charged only the 5% duty that was stipulated in the tariff guide, I pushed the issue long and hard until I was warned via "channels" to back off and lose the shipment, or receive an additional hole in the head for objecting to the required, but unofficial, facilitation fee..

I will welcome any cleaning up of the Customs Department, however token, especially if it removes from the Department anyone with the prefix "Na-" to their family name. There are too many of these people from the de-royaled families (look up the Thai rules for 6th generation removed from direct and immediate first royalty status) in positions of importance, and these no-longer-royals seem to continue believing they are still in the 15th and 16th century regarding the "respect" they deem they should receive.

In the Royalist nation where I originated, respect is earned, not automatic - except in the armed forces where respect for rank is written into military law, but respect for the wearer of the rank is optional. That particular type of mindset from my country needs drummed into Thai society with King Kong sized drumsticks. Until the D'tai Feudality and Sakdina systems disappear completely (as opposed to just officially), it will always be the "Na-wherevers" that wield the power in government departments outside of the capitol.

Personally, I recommend a modernisation system that would never receive sanction in Thailand - job exchanges with near-corruptionless western countries such that officers here have a mentoring watchdog farang paired up on a one-to-one for several years each - any Thai that gets badly assessed by a watchdog gets the boot, and a new clean recruit then gets mentored by the same farang for a 2-3 year probation period. Similar tactics are needed in all the police divisions (except strangely, maybe the Immigration Department is the only one that doesn't need this, as they are already for more "straight" than the rest).

Tangent - in addition, I'd highly recommend the Thais consider importing European and North American Highway Police to teach them the arts of stopping motorists committing "moving traffic offences". Has anyone here ever been pulled over by a moving police vehicle (other than to make space for VIP convoys racing through city centres in the rush hour)? The sooner the Thai cops learn how to behave like policemen and enforce the rules of the road, the sooner it will be safer for everyone. That also includes removing the step ladders over the concrete safety walls along the Don Muang highway, which pedestrians use for short cutting across the highway, and taxis use as taxi-rank markers. That would greatly speed traffic egress during the rush hour, and overall ease the city-centre congestion.

Within its own specialist area, Customs may rank as the most corrupt division in the nation, but in terms of laziness and ineffectuality of primary mission, they are the good guys compared to the traffic and Tessabaan BiB's.

Foggy

[Hyponeros]

I will believe this, when I see it. The customs department is about as corrupt as the police. Here is a recent post from one of

my thai corruption rants:

This is one of those posts that gets right to the heart of an issue that seems to really bother alot of ex-pats, who are

exposed to the corruption here. I have read many of the replies, and there seems to be a sense of resignation. How

can anything change? Well, it is changing throughout the region. Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and Vietnam are making

serious efforts to root out the corruption. Officials, CEO's, and people in positions of authority and power are getting

arrested, and sentenced. Of course, that seems almost impossible here, but I do hope it happens. I guess the aspect that

is not getting mentioned much, is why Thailand has so little interest in addressing it's staggering level of corruption. Malaysia

has set up a corruption commission, and is making DAILY arrests of top officials, ministers, local politicians, and businessmen. Indonesia

has set up a corruption commission, and so far their antigraft commission has achieved a 100-percent conviction rate in 86 cases of bribery

and graft related to government procurements and budgets. And where is Thailand in all of this. Why aren't men like Newin, and others, who

are coming up with expensive schemes to line their pockets being arrested, and tried? Why is the CEO of King Power still employed? Why is the

Police Captain in charge of the airport security, who appears to be involved in the King Power scam, still in his position? Does anyone really think

there is even a chance that the King Power scheme is not real? That they are arresting only guilty shoplifters? Does all King Power have to do is

post one video on the internet, of a guilty party, for all of us to let them off the hook? Is that all it takes? Even India is getting actively involved

in tackling corruption. When was the last time we heard of a government minister, or top official, or corporate CEO being arrested on corruption charges,

here in Thailand? There was a recent story of jet ski operators in Koh Samui, extorting $1,000's of dollars out of tourists, with the threat of,

and occasionally acts of violence, right on the beach in front of dozens of tourists, for supposedly getting a scratch on a jet ski. When one tourist

caught this on video, and presented it to the authorities, the culprits were confronted, and forced to a pay a fine of 1,000 baht! I am sure they

have not stopped laughing since the incident. Unless Thailand gets serious, and starts introducing fines and jail sentenced that are in proportion

to the crime, nobody will take them seriously. Thailand will continue to be the laughing stock of the world. They will continue to be considered

"that 3rd world country with so much promise, that could not do ANYTHING, to help itself". Or, "the country that always shoots itself in the foot".

Thailand is rapidly approching a point of being way past redemption. If nobody does something truly gutsy or courageous, the time will pass, for

Thailand to turn things around. History may show Thailand as having achieved it's greatest apex of development in 2000-2005. History may show

it being all downhill from there. The Thai people nor the Thai government seem to have no realization of how serious things are, and how perilous a

time this is for the nation. Very, very, very few people here seem to get it. A country can only make so many mistakes before the world leaves it

behind. Especially when neighbors like Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, and others are making so much progress, and trying so hard. This makes

the lack of effort here seem all the more staggering, and shocking. Someone needs to act. So what if jobs are lost. So what if heads roll. So what if

people in power are humiliated, and their lives are ruined. So what. It is not too late for Thailand, but the time when it is, is rapidly approaching. Change

is hard. Progress is difficult. But, not impossible. Thailand is not beyond redemption. There are many good people here who would like to see things

different. Conviction, with fines of 500,000 baht and up, and jail terms of 5-10 years is a good place to start. Tony, of course would be a great example

for a first conviction. I would suggest a fine of 2,000,000 baht, and a jail term of 20 years for him. He deserves it. He earned it.

17 Aug 2009

So, the real question is, who in the government is prepared to grow a set of balls big enough to tackle a problem that is holding Thailand firmly

locked into 3rd world status? Abhisit? Who else could do it?

Good post and straight to the point! You will be told I'am sure by the less informed that if you don't like it here go home...what expats do not seem to realise is that all the shit that happens here will affect us all in some way or another.Also like myself I always try to say what would be good for Thailand but to be honest I getting to the point where I think I'am wasting my breath(or fingers) as the way things are going here it would only seem to be going more downhill! The major point you seem to make is that Thais do not seem to realise the problems they have.....Corruption only makes NATIONS POORER!

All the Thais I mentioned the King Power scams to were convinced that the foreigners stole the goods and that King Power and Thailand are being unfairly victimized by foreigners. They were obviously quite convincing in the Thai media and these kind of crooks know how to spin things to appeal to Thai bigotry. An example of this kind of spin and bigotry involving another type of foreign visitor is is how readily nearly all non-Muslim Thais believed that it was necessary to mistreat and kill the Rohingya because they were all terrorists being infiltrated into the South.

The King Power scams are in fact a good starting point because they illustrate the big picture chain of corruption and ignorance in Thai society. King Power is allowed to operate monopolistic concessions at Suvarnabhumi and allegedly traffic a huge volume of contraband licquor domestically and no one can touch them, even when they aid and abet the illegal detention and and extortion of tourists, who, even if in the unlikely event that they really are shoplifters, are entitled to due process. The reason for this is clear. The owner has cultivated very effective political connections through lavishly sponsoring politicians, first Thaksin and now Newin and his blue shirts. Newin can protect him from anything as long as Newin has political power and the businessman continues to help finance him. The Democrat Party, though far from clean and honest, is the cleanest and most honest you get in Thai politics but they rely on Newin to stay in power, even though he is a banned politician who epitomizes the corruption and gangster style politics that the Democrats claim are their avowed enemies. Newin holds the balance because he is an expert vote buyer in the most populous Isaan region, who has actually been caught red handed doing this twice and was highly valued by Thaksin for his vote buying expertise. Rural Thais sell their votes to crooks like Newin and Thaksin because they have no education and don't understand how corruption damages them personally and prevents them from developing. Crooked politicians along with the Democrats and the so called elite are united in ensuring that the peasants never receive enough education to be able to see through any of them. And so it goes on while other countries in the region are starting to get their acts together, leaving Thailand to wallow in its cesspool of corruption and backwardness along with its close friend, Burma.

At the end of the day those who will really suffer from corruption and all the stupidness are not the foreigners, who still have the option to change the country if things go too bad, but the Thais.

Foreigners know they cannot change anything and Thais believe they cannot change anything so they don't try! Those who are in the position to change things will not do it because they benefit from it and most people know that long term thinking is not the strength of Thai people!

[lifeincnx]

All of which we reminds me of Captain Renault's memorable lines from the film Casablanca:

"Major Strasser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects."

or perhaps even more appropriate...

Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?

Capt. Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]

Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

Capt. Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.

[aloud]

Capt. Renault: Everybody out at once!

[markokang]

I thought the Police was Thailand's most corrupt Department!???????

Man! That's some claim to fame if you can beat the Police at corruption!!!

[Dap]

Instead of picking on Thailand maybe look at your home country --England for example just went through a whole series of news breaking corruption--MP's misusing fund for personal use.

Alot of the MP's were forced to pay money back, resigned or got sacked when this issue arrised. Can you see the same punishment being given out in Thailand?

As noted earlier, "When Pigs Fly"

[Mai Krap]

Does this even deserve comments?

[pjd]

After meeting with representatives of various trade associations and the Chamber of Commerce, Pradit concluded the most common complaint is that companies cannot get the Customs Department to confirm exactly how a particular product will be classified, which leads to vague duties and a waste of time.

A few days ago I spent half a day trying to find out how to avoid a Customs duty on a camera repair. I'm sending the camera to Japan from Thailand and it's coming back to Thailand in 3-4 weeks. After a repetitive circle to three Customs offices I was finally told (by a smarmy, gold-laden Customs official) that there is no way to guarantee that the repaired camera will be exempt from new duties (and the valuation that will consider the camera brand new). Following that I attempted to find out what the camera duty would/could be. No one could give me an answer to that question - not even an estimated percentage of the camera value.

In contrast, when I called Japanese Customs, I was immediately given a detailed description of duty procedures and valuations and how to make sure my camera is not charged when it enters the country for a repair - polite and concise service.

I'd love to see Thai Customs improved, but after 5 years in Thailand, I have little hope of this happening anytime soon.

[catmac]

On the face of it, it would appear that the proposed reforms would be an excellent start to overhauling an archaic, bureaucratic mess that is the present Customs Dept.

However, as many posters on this thread and countless others have detailed, however efficient the system itself may become, if the present regime of bribery and corruption is not tackled at the same time then all the fanfare of reform will be no more than a cosmetic facade.

For example, liloldspirut's dog may only need half the number of forms, etc., that the dog needs now, and the new clearly published tariff may well show that no duty is payable - all well and good, but if he is still going to be blackmailed into paying hard cash to some corrupt custom's official or the dog will be left to die in the custom's shed whilst he appeals to the courts, then where's the great improvement?

I'm afraid that this is just another one of Abhisit's goody-goody public announcements - sounds great, makes everyone think that his team is on the ball, but without any real intention of tackling the root cause of the problem.

[barry]

THAI CUSTOMS MOST CORRUPT?

YEA! WE'RE NO.1 WE'RE NO.1

[tim73]

All Governments are corrupt to a certain extent. It actuality the lobbying of politicians in the USA is corruption, it has just ingrained itself into the system. I suspect the Thai government is no different. You cannot have a non-corrupt government. Obama has standing orders not to hire any past lobbyist for government work and it is not working --they are the only people who are experienced enough to get anything done. There several hundred positions he cannot fill.

Exactly. In the West the corruption is more invisible, more high level, more sophisticated and much more money involved. You have to belong certain country club or go to a 5000 dollar "dinner" to discuss or hear some election candidate to speak. Or officials get free benefits from certain lobby groups or "holiday trips". The possibilities are endless. No need to carry suitcases of cash to the officials. That is sooo barbaric

Then they screw the J6Ps out there with bailout money for the banks. The money they do not need to pay back and are using to pay outrageous bonuses to their employees. Is that any better than in Thailand?

Thailand is still at the "hey man, better show me the money and some whisky too!"-corruption level. In a way much more honest way of corruption. Both of course are wrong but that "I am so much better as a white man and sure know how these pesky natives should behave"-attitude is not going to work.

[dreamtime]

All Governments are corrupt to a certain extent. It actuality the lobbying of politicians in the USA is corruption, it has just ingrained itself into the system. I suspect the Thai government is no different. You cannot have a non-corrupt government. Obama has standing orders not to hire any past lobbyist for government work and it is not working --they are the only people who are experienced enough to get anything done. There several hundred positions he cannot fill.

-- Obama has been hiring nothing but lobbyists. In fact, his administration hires lobbyists from the same industry for heading up a dept. that is supposed to oversee that same industry! Its completely ridiculous. Like hiring a Monsanto lobbyist to head up the Gov dept that is trying to regulate your food and seeds or a Goldman Sachs exec who is now in charge of ripping off taxpayer loot. It goes on and on.

S

Edited August 20, 2009 by dreamtime