Cooked Meat In The Frig, What's The Hap?

[Jingthing]

OK, I buy a lot of grilled whole chicken and use it in mostly in recipes for some days after I buy it.

The chicken of course tastes best freshly bought and non-refrigerated, but ...

I have found the chicken is always usable for four days (including the day I buy it).

It usually is OK on the fifth day but that is a bit iffy, best to not let it get that old.

Almost always rotten by the sixth day if it lasts that long.

So my chefs/food scientist question is there anything wrong/unsafe with this aged cold chicken before it gets any smell?

Edited August 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

OK, I buy a lot of grilled whole chicken and use it in mostly in recipes for some days after I buy it.

The chicken of course tastes best freshly bought and non-refrigerated, but ...

I have found the chicken is always usable for four days (including the day I buy it).

It usually is OK on the fifth day but that is a bit iffy, best to not let it get that old.

Almost always rotten by the sixth day if it lasts that long.

So my chefs/food scientist question is there anything wrong/unsafe with this aged cold chicken before it gets any smell?

JT freeze what you dont use mate. Pretty easy to thaw it out and use it as needed. Bacteria still grows in the fridge.

[Jingthing]

Thanks but I don't like frozen meat. What I am saying is that I generally use the meat before it goes rotten so wastage isn't the issue. However, I wonder what is it exactly that I am eating the day before it goes rotten? It doesn't yet taste or smell rotten, but obviously something unappetizing is going on if its on the verge.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

Thanks but I don't like frozen meat. What I am saying is that I generally use the meat before it goes rotten so wastage isn't the issue. However, I wonder what is it exactly that I am eating the day before it goes rotten? It doesn't yet taste or smell rotten, but obviously something unappetizing is going on if its on the verge.

You know what they say, "it's not what you see that will kill you, it's what you don't". I always err on the side of throwing it out if I feel it may be off.

[Jingthing]

You know what they say, "it's not what you see that will kill you, it's what you don't". I always err on the side of throwing it out if I feel it may be off.

I agree if there is even a hint of rot, but what if it smells and tastes fine? Just because it is has been around some days, does that mean something is wrong with it.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[slapout]

Jing, I use a 3 day throw away time, after cooking at home, I might add. I am never sure how long some of the stuff has set out in heat that you buy pre cooked, so I would rather error on safe side. Wife leaves some of the Thai dip???? etc in the fridge for weeks it seems and still eats it. My stomach, even all these years has not reached cast iron like many of the Thai's. Maybe use of micro wave helps neutralize the little bugs.

[Patsycat]

Get a dog!!

When I have had this dilemma - I freeze it, after two days of boringly eating the same thing over and over again. And it defrosts well, and then i stirfry it or add a creamy sauce, et voila!!

[NanaFoods]

You walk a dangerous path, my friend.

The longer the chicken remains uncooked and unfrozen, the more bacteria will grow on it. Main concerns are salmonella and campylobacter. Food poisoning as a result of these bacteria can involve nausea, diarrhea, cramps, fever, and other symptoms. Even mild cases may last up to a week, and if not treated in good time, can lead to liver or lung infections and even death.

These bacteria can grow at temperatures between 40 F. and 140 F. So, unless your fridge is well below 40F, your chicken is essentially a petri dish. It is commonly suggested that you freeze any chicken you do not plan to use within 2-days after buying it. Here in Thailand, I would recommend 1-day.

On more than one occasion, I've bought chicken at Tesco Lotus and it went off the next day. Unless you slaughter the chicken yourself, or see it slaughtered, how can you know how long its been sitting around before you bought it? The local talats here in Thailand aren't much better, as the chicken can sit in the humid heat, outside, for many hours.

Defrost chicken in the fridge (overnight for a whole chicken; for sections or filets, begin in the morning - assuming an evening meal), or use a microwave set for "defrost", or place in a watertight plastic bag and submerge it in a water bath. Do not let chicken sit out at room temperature to thaw it.

To be sure your not cooking up a dish of food poisoning:

When you cook your chicken, the innermost part of breast meat should reach at least 170 degrees F., and due to higher fat content thigh meat should reach between 180 and 190 degrees F. If the bird is stuffed, the stuffing should reach 165 degrees F. A cooking thermometer should always be used for whole chickens, especially with stuffing. This can ensure your bird is fully cooked, yet still moist and not overcooked.

Safe chicken is easily achieved without using a thermometer when stir-frying small pieces in hot oil for several minutes, or using a slow-cooker for 4-6 hours, or stewing large pieces/sections until the chicken is falling-apart tender. BBQ tends to be more a problem area, as many people are not experienced to control the fire's heat, often too hot, and do not use a meat thermometer...so the outside looks cooked or even charred, but the inside has not reached the safe temperature.

All chicken should be eaten fully cooked as in well-done; there is no medium or rare.

[zorro1]

I believe we have been over sanitized in the west. and why not if the big boys make you believe you will die unless drinking bottled water then you believe and join there money making machine and pay aus $2 for bottled water. Chicken farmer will convince you salmonella will will kill you unless you eat your chook quickly or throw it away and buy a new one. back home if I left meat in the car for a few hours while in the pub I would throw it out

However after living with a few tgf'S I dont bother with a fridge as a priority unless i buy beer which is immediately in the chiller after walking through the door

[jrbkk64]

HACCP a commonly used food safety standard says that any cooked food can be kept for the cooking day +48 hours providing the food was cooked to the right core temperature to begin with and kept under 5C for the remainder of the time. Unless you have a way of certifying when and how your chicken was cooked, I would eat it within 24 hours of buying it or freeze it within the same time.

[Jingthing]

Chef Heat, I was talking about already cooked, not raw chicken. Most of us know the dangers of raw chicken. It sounds to me filtering these responses that using the cooked chicken the same day plus 48 hours is probably OK. I may try out freezing some it or perhaps buy 1/2 chickens ...

BTW, I have also experienced buying raw chicken that is rotten the next day. Occasionally it is already rotten when purchased. That is why when I buy raw chicken I cook it immediately.

Well as long as we are on the subject of meat. Is there any harm in buying meat from the local markets where the flies are having their way with the meat? Doesn't cooking it later take care of any fly borne diseases?

Edited August 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[zorro1]

Chef Heat, I was talking about already cooked, not raw chicken. Most of us know the dangers of raw chicken. It sounds to me filtering these responses that using the cooked chicken the same day plus 48 hours is probably OK. I may try out freezing some it or perhaps buy 1/2 chickens ...

BTW, I have also experienced buying raw chicken that is rotten the next day. Occasionally it is already rotten when purchased. That is why when I buy raw chicken I cook it immediately.

Well as long as we are on the subject of meat. Is there any harm in buying meat from the local markets where the flies are having their way with the meat? Doesn't cooking it later take care of any fly borne diseases?

Jingthing , you have way to much time on your hands don't go vegetarian here they still use DDT but no flies

[rodcourt49]

Thanks but I don't like frozen meat. What I am saying is that I generally use the meat before it goes rotten so wastage isn't the issue. However, I wonder what is it exactly that I am eating the day before it goes rotten? It doesn't yet taste or smell rotten, but obviously something unappetizing is going on if its on the verge.

3 days maximum for any uncooked meat..par boil and it may extend another two days..what you are smelling is 'e coli' and most probably 'salmonella'.

Fully cooked meat and/or leftovers only 2 more days max.

[suegha]

If it doesn't smell bad, it's not bad!

[SlackJawChef]

Actually you cant smell or see any of the big nasty's.

Salmonella /staphylococcus /E'coli, Even botulism...

What you are smelling is bacterial/fungal .. and the toxic build up is what can do the damage.

The op was referring to fully cooked chicken so most of the big nasty s would all ready be dead.. unless there was cross contamination/under-cooking......

Bactria double about ever 3 hr or so in a well mantaind fridge, and up to every 15 min's at anything over about 7c..... so what you are eating on day #4 is 131,072 x more bacteria than on day 5, (and if you had 5 trillion on day 5, you can see how that could be a problem) plus all the excrement (toxins) from the bacitia on days 1-2-3&4...

Now the Bacteria or molds might not be that nasty and not kill you but no mater how hot you re-cooked the chicken (even if it killed every bacteria) you could get really sick from the toxic poisoning .... thats why you don't re-heat food more than once, after it has been cooked. as you can't see or smell toxin's...... but they sure can do a number on you......

Edited August 22, 2009 by SlackJawChef

[PEP]

Chef Heat, I was talking about already cooked, not raw chicken. Most of us know the dangers of raw chicken. It sounds to me filtering these responses that using the cooked chicken the same day plus 48 hours is probably OK. I may try out freezing some it or perhaps buy 1/2 chickens ...

BTW, I have also experienced buying raw chicken that is rotten the next day. Occasionally it is already rotten when purchased. That is why when I buy raw chicken I cook it immediately.

Well as long as we are on the subject of meat. Is there any harm in buying meat from the local markets where the flies are having their way with the meat? Doesn't cooking it later take care of any fly borne diseases?

We buy our Pork and Beef meat at the local market. We deal with the same stall holders who have killed the beast the previous night.

At home I wash it in a little salted water and dry it off then age it, covered in the fridge (+4 degrees), for eight to ten days prior to cooking . The tenderness after aging is amazing. We cook enough for one meal or Freeze the left-over (-18 degrees) for weeks or months.

We buy our Chicken frozen from a C.P. frozen food outlet and defrost and cook as desired.

Ten years down the track and so far NO upsets or "off" meat.

[Cuban]

Buy less cooked chicken or plan your meals with more care, four days in the fridge !

[Datsun240Z]

I believe we have been over sanitized in the west.

Not true. I do get stomach problems when switching to Thai food, this is only because of the hygiene standard, even my TGF got sick when she went back to Thai food. I never use meat that has been out of the fridge. Can't believe you guys actually eat meat, that has been laying there for days..... Like many Thai street vendors style.

[harrry]

Do not keep food too long it may make you sick. Invite lots of friends and you won't have any leftovers.

Fancy resturaunts that use refrigerators are often worse for keeping food too long than those that keep food out, the badness shows quicker in them.

[chiangmaikelly]

All good restaurants used aged beef but they buy it aged. They buy it aged because the meat packer has the facilities to properly age beef and ages it in primal cuts and not individual portions.

Good beef is usually aged for 28 days. In the old days beef was dry aged and then the green and blue mold was washed off. This method is still used for really good prime beef. There are a number of reasons you should not age meat at home. If anyone is interested let me know and I will post them. I have never heard of aging pork. I have heard of marinating pork wet or dry for a few days but that is not the same as aging.

[Jingthing]

... four days in the fridge !

I don't catch your meaning. Do you intend to say 4 days in the fridge is an outrageously long time, or are you saying 4 days is the limit and that is fine.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[SlackJawChef]

Actually you cant smell or see any of the big nasty's.

Salmonella /staphylococcus /E'coli, Even botulism...

What you are smelling is bacterial/fungal .. and the toxic build up is what can do the damage.

The op was referring to fully cooked chicken so most of the big nasty s would all ready be dead.. unless there was cross contamination/under-cooking......

Bactria double about ever 3 hr or so in a well mantaind fridge, and up to every 15 min's at anything over about 7c..... so what you are eating on day #4 is 131,072 x more bacteria than on day 5, (and if you had 5 trillion on day 5, you can see how that could be a problem) plus all the excrement (toxins) from the bacitia on days 1-2-3&4...

Now the Bacteria or molds might not be that nasty and not kill you but no mater how hot you re-cooked the chicken (even if it killed every bacteria) you could get really sick from the toxic poisoning .... thats why you don't re-heat food more than once, after it has been cooked. as you can't see or smell toxin's...... but they sure can do a number on you......

What I ment to say was..

What you are eating on day #4 Is 131,072x more bacteria than on day #3 ( not 5, unless you have some kind of time machine)

(Ok I know.... 5 trillion on day three might be a bit of an understatment)....

But for me day #4 is when I start to question it........ & You know what they say "When in doubt ....Throw it out'...

S.J.C

Edited August 27, 2009 by SlackJawChef

[zorro1]

I believe we have been over sanitized in the west.

Not true. I do get stomach problems when switching to Thai food, this is only because of the hygiene standard, even my TGF got sick when she went back to Thai food. I never use meat that has been out of the fridge. Can't believe you guys actually eat meat, that has been laying there for days..... Like many Thai street vendors style.

I used to as well, but after being exposed to no doubt dodgy street food my gut can now take anything and am starting to experiment with bbq frog and will at some stage try the insects. BBQ frog is great with beer but I avoid the head its a little to pungent. Same goes with water. The sooner one starts to accidentally swallow tap water the better. Your body will gradually build up resistance to bacteria over time. My water filters expired 12 mths ago but don't bother changing them here in BKK, not sure about quality anywhere else. Cooked meat like chicken In a new fridge I would give 6 days no probs

[Datsun240Z]

I believe we have been over sanitized in the west.

Not true. I do get stomach problems when switching to Thai food, this is only because of the hygiene standard, even my TGF got sick when she went back to Thai food. I never use meat that has been out of the fridge. Can't believe you guys actually eat meat, that has been laying there for days..... Like many Thai street vendors style.

I used to as well, but after being exposed to no doubt dodgy street food my gut can now take anything and am starting to experiment with bbq frog and will at some stage try the insects. BBQ frog is great with beer but I avoid the head its a little to pungent. Same goes with water. The sooner one starts to accidentally swallow tap water the better. Your body will gradually build up resistance to bacteria over time. My water filters expired 12 mths ago but don't bother changing them here in BKK, not sure about quality anywhere else. Cooked meat like chicken In a new fridge I would give 6 days no probs

Good luck

[SlackJawChef]

I believe we have been over sanitized in the west.

Not true. I do get stomach problems when switching to Thai food, this is only because of the hygiene standard, even my TGF got sick when she went back to Thai food. I never use meat that has been out of the fridge. Can't believe you guys actually eat meat, that has been laying there for days..... Like many Thai street vendors style.

I used to as well, but after being exposed to no doubt dodgy street food my gut can now take anything and am starting to experiment with bbq frog and will at some stage try the insects. BBQ frog is great with beer but I avoid the head its a little to pungent. Same goes with water. The sooner one starts to accidentally swallow tap water the better. Your body will gradually build up resistance to bacteria over time. My water filters expired 12 mths ago but don't bother changing them here in BKK, not sure about quality anywhere else. Cooked meat like chicken In a new fridge I would give 6 days no probs

If it's in your home, and it is only you eating it ... Well "Up to You" ..as they say

But if you are selling that food, to the general public, than you can not make those kind of choices ... 3 day's max....

I know that some of you out there may never have worked in a resturant before or have recived no formal training, but decided to open a resurant here in the L.O.S.

Please even though you may not have killed anybody yet... you have a morel responcabilaty to your customers to provide them with safe food...

they are puting there trust in you and I know you would not be happy, going into your favored restaurant, and being served 5 or 6 day old re-heated pre-cooked meat...

Seriously I know it's difficult to believe me when you watch what the Thai's do with food...

Please if you are serving Western food, to Westerners... you are expected to follow Western standers of health and safety....

Unfortunatly many people get into this game without any training or even experience in a kitchen ... other than helping there Mum out when they where a kid... I am not Knocking anyone's Mum's cooking attribute ... just pointing out that I meet more Ex-builders/Plumbers or Real estate Guru's... that think opening a restaurant is easy... and have no clue as to even basic food safe handling....

It scare's me to think that people are putting there life in there hands....

S.J.C