Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand

[whistleblower]

I understand why TV are keeping this thread open but I am pretty sure in normal circumstances it would have been closed by now.

Cant take the heat???

They are probably keeping it open in the hope that we might eventually get some honest and frank replies to the tough questions posed about the TVP's (not you, the TVP's that appear to flaunt/abuse their authority)

What HAS happened to those i highlighted from the Pattaya post?

Are they still serving? If so why?

[phuketrex]

When he's not helping people running away from paying their bar bills he helps catch paedophiles too>>> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/...d-Mr-Swirl.html

Well done.

[richard_smith237]

Whistle blower… Can you post a photo of yourself on here?

Should you ever get into trouble and need assistance from anyone we will know to give you a wide birth due the persistent criticism you would surely give.

The world is not ‘Black and White’ and a boxed up nicely for you.

For pages now you have persistently attacked Howard’s integrity. Don’t you get it? He’s a volunteer and simply trying to help people in a questionable environment and as with many people perhaps some minor mistakes have been made. On the greater scale does this even matter? He is helping and certainly not doing any more damage while doing so.

Let it go – while having interest in what others have to say on this thread, your rhetoric stands out as simply childish.

[whistleblower]

Not howards integrity, the integrity of the whole organisation. Drug dealers, ladyboy assaulters, illegal gun possession, forced sex????

Minor errors??? F@*K me where do you come from??

Guessing from the "wide berth WE will give you" your one of them too??

No need to post a picture of me, I dont do Pattaya, so wont need your help.

[petaling]

I go to Howard (or Mr. Miller as he prefers) Because he is the head of the TVPs. Just like the press go to the PM if any of his MP's or heads of government organisations do wrong.

In most organisations, when a public figure does something wrong, immoral or illegal they resign to protect the integrity of the organisation, or if they are stubborn they are sacked.

If this doesnt happen, then the there is usually a public outcry and someone (usually the head of that organisation) comes out to explain why. That is all im asking for, some answers.

If you google 'Thai volunter police" or in pattaya news do a search for "Thai volunteer police" you will see this:

WOMAN FORCED TO HAVE SEX WITH FORMER VOLUNTEER POLICE

NORWEGIAN VOLUNTEER POLICE ARRESTED IN PATTAYA FOR DRUGS DEALING

LADY BOYS ACCUSE PATTAYA FOREIGN POLICE VOLUNTEER OF ASSAULT

PATTAYA VOLUNTEER POLICE BEAT UP DRUNKEN MAN AFTER HE ATTACKS AN ...

VOLUNTEER POLICEMAN CAUGHT IN PATTAYA WITH ILLEGAL PISTOL ...

Surely to reassure tourists and to clear the air, the head of the volunteer police should clarify the situation and inform us if these abusers of power have been kicked out of the force??? If not why not. Selective responses indicate a cover up.

Thank you for those links and also for your persistent chase after the elusive answers.

There's also a whole host of other threads here on Thaivisa if one does a search related to the Pattaya TPV, such as being used as "John's" to catch foreign prostitutes (arresting them AFTER sex, not after negotiating for said sex, as is done by police the world over). There's also threads about them working as undercover drug buyers. Also, there's a huge selection of threads with questions regarding work permits and qualifications that like this thread went unanswered.

It's a shame that Bravo channel didn't pursue any of these highly tainted aspects of the TPV because that's likely the only way we'll ever hear answers.

[Maizefarmer]

I understand why TV are keeping this thread open but I am pretty sure in normal circumstances it would have been closed by now.

Yes, I am being selective on what I answer, and why shouldn't I? There is some things I don't want to discuss on a public forum and some BM's that are not worthy of a reply.

By the way, I have been sent 7 individual DVD's (by courier) of the programs to my home address here in Thailand, so I have not broken any laws by downloading torrents of the program.

Well, Howard – why do you think it is kept open? Why?

I’ll tell you why I think: because you guys opened yourselve’s to the public by agreeing to participate in that tatty TV program.

No Police Force in its right mind would allow its volunteers with the public exposure you guys have, in the enviroment you guys are working in to go anywhere near a producer of that sort, or allow you the free hand you have to comment on a public domain forum, let alone one like ThaiVisa.

Do you ever see the volunteers that work for any of the European or USA/State police forces commenting or opening themselves to the exposure you guys have? You could be as right as rain, you still get hauled over the coals – it's political suicide.

As I commented in my opening post to my thread Another Perspective On Thailand's Volunteer Tourist Police – which was then closed down and is now on page 17 of the General Topics threads - if anyone wants to read it - I think the program has a lot to offer, but you guys have brought it on yourselves - you were given an oppurtunity and invited to wrap a lot of the speculation & critisism up with a formal/policy statement - and the public still wait for that – its not coming is it?

I am afraid there is worse to come than the critisms on TV or in the Pattaya Post articals - you are aware a British tabloid has done some considerable background research on your collegues, and a few of them don't come out looking too good, to say the least. When that is going to be published I don’t know, but I would imagine (knowing the tabloids) that they will wait for something to happen that stimulates public interest in you guys again (and what makes me think it will be something "negative"), and then print.

Don't underestimate the power of the press to ruin a good program. The volunteer program is a good program – but its been pretty poorly implemented and managed.

[whistleblower]

I go to Howard (or Mr. Miller as he prefers) Because he is the head of the TVPs. Just like the press go to the PM if any of his MP's or heads of government organisations do wrong.

In most organisations, when a public figure does something wrong, immoral or illegal they resign to protect the integrity of the organisation, or if they are stubborn they are sacked.

If this doesnt happen, then the there is usually a public outcry and someone (usually the head of that organisation) comes out to explain why. That is all im asking for, some answers.

If you google 'Thai volunter police" or in pattaya news do a search for "Thai volunteer police" you will see this:

WOMAN FORCED TO HAVE SEX WITH FORMER VOLUNTEER POLICE

NORWEGIAN VOLUNTEER POLICE ARRESTED IN PATTAYA FOR DRUGS DEALING

LADY BOYS ACCUSE PATTAYA FOREIGN POLICE VOLUNTEER OF ASSAULT

PATTAYA VOLUNTEER POLICE BEAT UP DRUNKEN MAN AFTER HE ATTACKS AN ...

VOLUNTEER POLICEMAN CAUGHT IN PATTAYA WITH ILLEGAL PISTOL ...

Surely to reassure tourists and to clear the air, the head of the volunteer police should clarify the situation and inform us if these abusers of power have been kicked out of the force??? If not why not. Selective responses indicate a cover up.

Thank you for those links and also for your persistent chase after the elusive answers.

There's also a whole host of other threads here on Thaivisa if one does a search related to the Pattaya TPV, such as being used as "John's" to catch foreign prostitutes (arresting them AFTER sex, not after negotiating for said sex, as is done by police the world over). There's also threads about them working as undercover drug buyers. Also, there's a huge selection of threads with questions regarding work permits and qualifications that like this thread went unanswered.

It's a shame that Bravo channel didn't pursue any of these highly tainted aspects of the TPV because that's likely the only way we'll ever hear answers.

Just read some of those threads too and apart from a certain TVP offering some naked photos of himself, absolutely no answers to the questions asked.

I dont think one will be forthcoming either.

I bet the entire TPV force of Pattaya are glad that Monday is the last episode of BTIT and then this will die down.

Maizefarmer, you have reiterated what i said earlier, but dont expect an answer. I'm off now to read your thread on page 17.

[taffylee]

You forgot the most horrific story of the lot..

TPV FORCES WOMAN TO WATCH A WHOLE HOUR OF PATTAYAONE NEWS

Edited October 24, 2009 by taffylee

[BTITmaker]

I understand why TV are keeping this thread open but I am pretty sure in normal circumstances it would have been closed by now.

Yes, I am being selective on what I answer, and why shouldn't I? There is some things I don't want to discuss on a public forum and some BM's that are not worthy of a reply.

By the way, I have been sent 7 individual DVD's (by courier) of the programs to my home address here in Thailand, so I have not broken any laws by downloading torrents of the program.

Well, Howard – why do you think it is kept open? Why?

I’ll tell you why I think: because you guys opened yourselve’s to the public by agreeing to participate in that tatty TV program.

No Police Force in its right mind would allow its volunteers with the public exposure you guys have, in the enviroment you guys are working in to go anywhere near a producer of that sort, or allow you the free hand you have to comment on a public domain forum, let alone one like ThaiVisa.

Do you ever see the volunteers that work for any of the European or USA/State police forces commenting or opening themselves to the exposure you guys have? You could be as right as rain, you still get hauled over the coals – it's political suicide.

As I commented in my opening post to my thread Another Perspective On Thailand's Volunteer Tourist Police – which was then closed down and is now on page 17 of the General Topics threads - if anyone wants to read it - I think the program has a lot to offer, but you guys have brought it on yourselves - you were given an oppurtunity and invited to wrap a lot of the speculation & critisism up with a formal/policy statement - and the public still wait for that – its not coming is it?

I am afraid there is worse to come than the critisms on TV or in the Pattaya Post articals - you are aware a British tabloid has done some considerable background research on your collegues, and a few of them don't come out looking too good, to say the least. When that is going to be published I don’t know, but I would imagine (knowing the tabloids) that they will wait for something to happen that stimulates public interest in you guys again (and what makes me think it will be something "negative"), and then print.

Don't underestimate the power of the press to ruin a good program. The volunteer program is a good program – but its been pretty poorly implemented and managed.

Maizefarmer - grateful if you'd answer the following for me:

1. Which of these three things made BTIT "tatty" - a. the editing b. the opening title sequence c. the end credits d. the fact that it aired on Bravo. Sorry, that was four things. I accept that there are no go-go bars in Thailand, there is no sex tourism and no disrespect for Thai culture and hospitality shown by foreign visitors.

2. Re: participation in the Series. Shouldn't your comments be addressed to the Chief of the Royal Thai Tourist Police who gave permission? I don't see any of the hypocrites on this forum bashing him personally, even though they hide behind supposed anonymity.

3. Producer of "that sort"? I think you may have been in the maize fields a little too long.

4. TV viewers in the UK don't give a monkey's about what long term ex-pats who can't see the wood for the trees anymore think about the Tourist Police and Howard et al. The series was about - at the risk of repeating myself - the British volunteers who work with the Thai police to deal with people who get into trouble in Thailand (the focus being on Brits because it was a Series for Britishcentric TV).

5. No British tabloid is interested in any story about the volunteers who work with Thai Tourist Police - maizefarmer you've been in Thailand too long. Given all the purported controversy about BTIT show me one story about the Series that's made it into a British tabloid. They aint interested. Full stop. Howard - you and your pals are as safe as houses on that count. When's that story going to be published? Never.

6. Don't underestimate the power of the press to MAKE a good programme. Without the efforts of Thai Channel 3, The Bangkok Post and the cult following from ex-pats with an interest in Thailand BTIT would have sunk without a trace a lot sooner.

Maizefarmer, Whistleblower - like me you should get out more ... your energy would be far better expended addressing REAL injustices in this world, and no matter where you are you won't have to go far to find them.

Now, can we please get back to discussing what a hornets nest BTIT stirred up, with its exposure of things some people wanted exposed and others didn't, about depictions of a country some people don't recognise, about how an insignificant TV show on a minor cable TV channel could cause such a fuss, about alleged fakery ... come on ... either shut this thread once and for all or change the tune - people on this forum were bashing Howard before BTIT was made and we seem, at last, to have come full circle. Only a simpleton would think Howard is the story.

Edited October 24, 2009 by BTITmaker

[mrtoad]

The only question I'd actually like answered is about Paul Harrison. What exactly happened to him after his pepper spray incident?

[jackr]

BTIT, well said. <deleted> is all the fuss about! Some people seem to have too much time to do eff all and will dissect anything and everything. whistleblower, for one, how about giving it a rest? Nobody gives a smeg about what you can dig up blah de blah de blah. The show's about a bunch of guys helping out tourists in a crappy region of the country. The only tatty thing about it is the general tat on the street... the dregs that come over here to places like that and the dregs of Thais it attracts. Howard seems a decent enough chap so how about getting off the dude's case.

[taffylee]

BTIT maker,

Welcome back, your absense has resulted in the thread descending into chaos.

I also heard a rumour (and only a rumour) about Press interest in the Pattaya Volunteers but it wasn't the British press, it was apparently our Scandanavian cousins.

Sorry I also agree with the 'Tatty' statement but I think as you explained this was due to the editing rather than the production.

[taffylee]

The only question I'd actually like answered is about Paul Harrison. What exactly happened to him after his pepper spray incident?

He now works undercover in Pooks bar. Soi Baukhoa

[BTITmaker]

BTIT, well said. <deleted> is all the fuss about! Some people seem to have too much time to do eff all and will dissect anything and everything. whistleblower, for one, how about giving it a rest? Nobody gives a smeg about what you can dig up blah de blah de blah. The show's about a bunch of guys helping out tourists in a crappy region of the country. The only tatty thing about it is the general tat on the street... the dregs that come over here to places like that and the dregs of Thais it attracts. Howard seems a decent enough chap so how about getting off the dude's case.

Well said back jackr!

mrtoad - so what would you have liked to have seen happen to Paul H. Put in the stocks in Central? Pilloried? Deported. Dealt with as he might have been back in Britain/your country? And would you stop there? Just how far would you go to change Thailand into where you came from? Would that make you feel more comfortable as an ex-pat? A Thailand that felt just a bit more like home, with our laws, our way of doing things. Familiarity does breed contempt. No wonder they make us leave the country every 90 days. mrtoad - have you written to the Chief of Police in Pattaya, been in to see him have you? To complain? What did he say? "Thank you farang. I'll get right on it. I'll see to it right away - that justice is done Sir, the American way (tugs forelock)." Leave Paul to the Thais. It is their country, lest some people who post to this forum forget.

[hm1973]

The only question I'd actually like answered is about Paul Harrison. What exactly happened to him after his pepper spray incident?

He had sore eyes for about 10 minutes as he misjudged the wind direction.

[mrtoad]

The only question I'd actually like answered is about Paul Harrison. What exactly happened to him after his pepper spray incident?

He now works undercover in Pooks bar. Soi Baukhoa

Sure he enjoys that.

[taffylee]

The only question I'd actually like answered is about Paul Harrison. What exactly happened to him after his pepper spray incident?

He had sore eyes for about 10 minutes as he misjudged the wind direction.

Is that really true??

I don't think Paul Harrrison deserved the matter to be taken any further, after the slating he got in the local press, that's punishment enough. Very Embarrasing, I wouldn't be able to show my face again if that happened to me, and I certainly wouldn't stick on the uniform and dance up and down walking street.

Edited October 24, 2009 by taffylee

[whistleblower]

"Now, can we please get back to discussing what a hornets nest BTIT stirred up, with its exposure of things some people wanted exposed and others didn't,"

Like the lack of control/coordination/regulation of the organisation the show is about???

"about how an insignificant TV show on a minor cable TV channel could cause such a fuss, about alleged fakery ... come on ... either shut this thread once and for all or change the tune -"

Back to you exonerating yourself for making the show in the first place???

"Only a simpleton would think Howard is the story."

As he and his organisation has been in about 70% of every episode so far, and the show says at the beginning of every episode "we go behind the scenes of this organisation blah blah" you will have to forgive us simpletons for thinking the story was about them!!!

[BTITmaker]

"Now, can we please get back to discussing what a hornets nest BTIT stirred up, with its exposure of things some people wanted exposed and others didn't,"

Like the lack of control/coordination/regulation of the organisation the show is about???

"about how an insignificant TV show on a minor cable TV channel could cause such a fuss, about alleged fakery ... come on ... either shut this thread once and for all or change the tune -"

Back to you exonerating yourself for making the show in the first place???

"Only a simpleton would think Howard is the story."

As he and his organisation has been in about 70% of every episode so far, and the show says at the beginning of every episode "we go behind the scenes of this organisation blah blah" you will have to forgive us simpletons for thinking the story was about them!!!

Yawn. whistleblower - you're very obviously a Bravo viewer. And as such I'm afraid neither Vera Productions (makers, by the way, of serious docs for Channel 4 and sniffy stuff like Bremner Bird and Fortune) nor Virgin Media think the likes of you can handle "the truth". Rather you need to be fed on a diet of lads and ladettes throwing punches and throwing up, preferably somewhere a bit foreign ... if you are up to "reaching" a bit, as opposed to being dumbed down to, then this was the demand from Bravo that 'Thai Cops' supplied ... it's all on their site here: http://www.virginmediatv.co.uk/commissioni...vo/our_gaps.php

We also want a further 20/25 half hours of programming.

‘Boozed Up Brits Abroad’ will air from October 2008 onwards and we have high hopes this will rate well and return next year. Police crackdowns and the lack of a 24 drinking culture has meant a lot of people, especially our Bravo viewers have now chosen to hold a customary knees up abroad. The series will highlight the real scale of the problem in Europe and ask if as Brits we can ever clean up our act? This is a great area and genre for us and has been hugely successful in the past with shows such as ‘Booze Britain’ and ‘Costa Del Street Crime’ so we don’t want to stop at just this series. Can we go further with this area? Costa clubbing….Brits boozing and holidaying in the Canaries? Where are the troubled areas that we Brits are creating other than the Eastern Bloc which we cover in ‘Booze Up Brits Abroad’?

[hm1973]

The only question I'd actually like answered is about Paul Harrison. What exactly happened to him after his pepper spray incident?

He had sore eyes for about 10 minutes as he misjudged the wind direction.

Is that really true??

I don't think Paul Harrrison deserved the matter to be taken any further, after the slating he got in the local press, that's punishment enough. Very Embarrasing, I wouldn't be able to show my face again if that happened to me, and I certainly wouldn't stick on the uniform and dance up and down walking street.

Neither would I dance up and down walking street, I think I would look a bit stupid if I did that!

[whistleblower]

BTIT, well said. <deleted> is all the fuss about! Some people seem to have too much time to do eff all and will dissect anything and everything. whistleblower, for one, how about giving it a rest? Nobody gives a smeg about what you can dig up blah de blah de blah. The show's about a bunch of guys helping out tourists in a crappy region of the country. The only tatty thing about it is the general tat on the street... the dregs that come over here to places like that and the dregs of Thais it attracts. Howard seems a decent enough chap so how about getting off the dude's case.

Well said back jackr!

mrtoad - so what would you have liked to have seen happen to Paul H. Put in the stocks in Central? Pilloried? Deported. Dealt with as he might have been back in Britain/your country? And would you stop there? Just how far would you go to change Thailand into where you came from? Would that make you feel more comfortable as an ex-pat? A Thailand that felt just a bit more like home, with our laws, our way of doing things. Familiarity does breed contempt. No wonder they make us leave the country every 90 days. mrtoad - have you written to the Chief of Police in Pattaya, been in to see him have you? To complain? What did he say? "Thank you farang. I'll get right on it. I'll see to it right away - that justice is done Sir, the American way (tugs forelock)." Leave Paul to the Thais. It is their country, lest some people who post to this forum forget.

BTIT maker

Mr. Toad is just an expat in Thailand (i think) Not the maker of a tv show. Did you ever go to see the police chief in Pattaya during the making of your show? Question him on the things you filmed? you know police extortion of the girl with a spliff? (maybe phuket police), standard of the police, that would have been interesting, an interview with the chief. Could have asked him why his town is known as the sex capital of the world in a country where prostitution is illegal. that would have got him squirming

[whistleblower]

Yawn. whistleblower - you're very obviously a Bravo viewer. And as such I'm afraid neither Vera Productions (makers, by the way, of serious docs for Channel 4 and sniffy stuff like Bremner Bird and Fortune) nor Virgin Media think the likes of you can handle "the truth". Rather you need to be fed on a diet of lads and ladettes throwing punches and throwing up, preferably somewhere a bit foreign ... if you are up to "reaching" a bit, as opposed to being dumbed down to, then this was the demand from Bravo that 'Thai Cops' supplied ... it's all on their site here: http://www.virginmediatv.co.uk/commissioni...vo/our_gaps.php

So they sent their best man to film it for us!!!!!!!!

[BTITmaker]

whistleblower - yes. Vera Productions chose not to include the Thais' rights of reply. Not for any sinister reason I don't think - but because most of the Thai police chiefs and prison governors speak Thai and neither Vera nor Virgin think Bravo viewers can read subtitles. And their attention span isn't held by actors' voices, so they switch over to ITV2 or More4 where they don't pull any clever stunts like that either. whistleblower - give Howard a rest and start directing your energy at the the sort of TV the British so obviously deserve. Ho-hum - it's your money you pay to the BBC, regardless of whether your watching Bravo or Strictly Come Dancing. Distracted and misdirected energy - it's the problem with Britain today. Finally, the TV I've been making for years has had the desired effect. Their brains have turned to jelly. BTITmaker was on record long before 'Big Trouble In Thailand': 'Quality TV - My Part In Its Downfall'. http://www.business.mmu.ac.uk/newsandevent...s.php?uref=2041

Edited October 24, 2009 by BTITmaker

[taffylee]

I think the presence of the film makers during the "Girl with Spliff" episode probably helped her enormously.. I have never heard of a foreign national getting probation.

Also as BTITmaker previously explained, he even paid the 900 Baht bar bill of the Dutch bloke that Howard wanted to send to the immigration jail - "do something definitive with". (Although its inevitable that he'd end up there eventually if he didn't sort himself out)

I'd like the camera's around if I was potentially gonna to be stitched up by Thai Police though, we have to remember how corrupt they are - and putting a friendly foreign face on the front line doesn't change anything.

Edited October 24, 2009 by taffylee

[Maizefarmer]

I understand why TV are keeping this thread open but I am pretty sure in normal circumstances it would have been closed by now.

Yes, I am being selective on what I answer, and why shouldn't I? There is some things I don't want to discuss on a public forum and some BM's that are not worthy of a reply.

By the way, I have been sent 7 individual DVD's (by courier) of the programs to my home address here in Thailand, so I have not broken any laws by downloading torrents of the program.

Well, Howard – why do you think it is kept open? Why?

I’ll tell you why I think: because you guys opened yourselve’s to the public by agreeing to participate in that tatty TV program.

No Police Force in its right mind would allow its volunteers with the public exposure you guys have, in the enviroment you guys are working in to go anywhere near a producer of that sort, or allow you the free hand you have to comment on a public domain forum, let alone one like ThaiVisa.

Do you ever see the volunteers that work for any of the European or USA/State police forces commenting or opening themselves to the exposure you guys have? You could be as right as rain, you still get hauled over the coals – it's political suicide.

As I commented in my opening post to my thread Another Perspective On Thailand's Volunteer Tourist Police – which was then closed down and is now on page 17 of the General Topics threads - if anyone wants to read it - I think the program has a lot to offer, but you guys have brought it on yourselves - you were given an oppurtunity and invited to wrap a lot of the speculation & critisism up with a formal/policy statement - and the public still wait for that – its not coming is it?

I am afraid there is worse to come than the critisms on TV or in the Pattaya Post articals - you are aware a British tabloid has done some considerable background research on your collegues, and a few of them don't come out looking too good, to say the least. When that is going to be published I don’t know, but I would imagine (knowing the tabloids) that they will wait for something to happen that stimulates public interest in you guys again (and what makes me think it will be something "negative"), and then print.

Don't underestimate the power of the press to ruin a good program. The volunteer program is a good program – but its been pretty poorly implemented and managed.

Maizefarmer - grateful if you'd answer the following for me:

1. Which of these three things made BTIT "tatty" - a. the editing b. the opening title sequence c. the end credits d. the fact that it aired on Bravo. Sorry, that was four things. I accept that there are no go-go bars in Thailand, there is no sex tourism and no disrespect for Thai culture and hospitality shown by foreign visitors.

Tatty - not a good choice of words, fair enough - my personal feeling is that the program, instead of repeatedly showing different incidents, could have taken a harder/longer look at the project overall ...... it's management and its operating procedures for example

2. Re: participation in the Series. Shouldn't your comments be addressed to the Chief of the Royal Thai Tourist Police who gave permission? I don't see any of the hypocrites on this forum bashing him personally, even though they hide behind supposed anonymity.

Absolutely - yes, the Thai Tourist Police have not done a good job at all with the volunteer program - they have failed to respond to requests for a policy statement (one of the points I raised in my earlier thread, but which they have also been asked from certain media outlets), they did not do much in the way of due-dilligence and background checks on volunteers, and they have not offered a standard operating procedure (for lack of a better word) - all considerations, amongst others, which volunter programs should be subject to.

3. Producer of "that sort"? I think you may have been in the maize fields a little too long.

Look at the issues/critisims that have cropped up regards editing, name changing, allegations of manipulation ...... avoidable issues I would have thought.

4. TV viewers in the UK don't give a monkey's about what long term ex-pats who can't see the wood for the trees anymore think about the Tourist Police and Howard et al. The series was about - at the risk of repeating myself - the British volunteers who work with the Thai police to deal with people who get into trouble in Thailand (the focus being on Brits because it was a Series for Britishcentric TV).

Yup - I'll agree with you on that - the "silly season", news today , forgotten tomorrow, and all that ...... yes, I know - like the program it will all bow over in time, things will get back to normal and we'll all wonder what the fuss was about.

5. No British tabloid is interested in any story about the volunteers who work with Thai Tourist Police - maizefarmer you've been in Thailand too long. Given all the purported controversy about BTIT show me one story about the Series that's made it into a British tabloid. They aint interested. Full stop. Howard - you and your pals are as safe as houses on that count. When's that story going to be published? Never.

Mark my words - its coming: said journalist is an established investigative hack back in the UK, a friend of mine and stayed with me a few days on his last trip to Thailand. I should perhaps ad, that the initiative did not stem from the BTIT program.

6. Don't underestimate the power of the press to MAKE a good programme. Without the efforts of Thai Channel 3, The Bangkok Post and the cult following from ex-pats with an interest in Thailand BTIT would have sunk without a trace a lot sooner.

It's called public interest - in that respect BTIT certainly done quite well, albeit, like tabloid journalism what one reads/sees often gives a slant to a subject matter/content that is questionable - from which so many of the comments to date have arisen.

Maizefarmer, Whistleblower - like me you should get out more ... your energy would be far better expended addressing REAL injustices in this world, and no matter where you are you won't have to go far to find them.

I should get out more - address the REAL injustices of the world ........ well, I do - I travel considerably and I keep up to date with whats going on in the world - this is a Thai forum, so I confine my comments to related issues - and I am all to well aware of the "injustices" of and in Thailand (and elsewhere in the world), but quite irrelivant in the context of this subject, unless we are to start discussing the Thai Police and the numerous critisims of how they operate - which has not been the subject raised so far.

Now, can we please get back to discussing what a hornets nest BTIT stirred up, with its exposure of things some people wanted exposed and others didn't, about depictions of a country some people don't recognise, about how an insignificant TV show on a minor cable TV channel could cause such a fuss, about alleged fakery ... come on ... either shut this thread once and for all or change the tune - people on this forum were bashing Howard before BTIT was made and we seem, at last, to have come full circle. Only a simpleton would think Howard is the story.

Yes - I agree, the focus on Howard is uncalled for, but Howard did feature prominently in the program and Howard has stood up since to be counted (and I take my hat off to him for that). Howard, for good or for bad has become a "rally point" for comments about the program, because of that prominence .... and I refer you back to my comments in an earlier thread I started (which was an effort to move the subject matter from a lot of the comments you have quite rightly raised as achieving little one way or the other, you can hardly complain about it afterwards, can you?

In replying to my "critisms", let me ask you this - alot of the points I raised in my Another Persepctive on the Volunteer ..... thread (page 17) have been acknowledged as valid points - did they occur to you as the maker of the program, and if so what was done to get answers to them ..... as any hack or program maker out to make a half decent documentry of sorts on a subject, would have pushed hard to get answers to?

Thats really is as far as my "critism" of the program its self goes - it was limited in content and coverage - I feel a better job could have been done, not withstanding the limited air time avalible. Put this way - its not a program thats going to win awards. .

Edited October 24, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[ThaiEye]

According to an email forward, Pattayaman71 and Whistleblower are actually the same person mailing from different IPs, the source is Pattaya Ghost.

"The Pattaya Ghost has it in for Gavin Hill and especially the Tourist Police Volunteers after a run in concerning non-payment of a 1,000+ baht bill at a Pattaya go-go last March".

Edited October 24, 2009 by ThaiEye

[JimsKnight]

The plot thickens Whistleman...

[BTITmaker]

Maizefarmer - thanks for your response ... I did not foresee winning any awards, though I'm sure there's plenty of room in Bravo's trophy cabinet.

As I've said, the focus of the series was on the Brits who get into trouble in an exotic setting re: the Bravo brief. And it was given a leg up to being commissioned because there are Brit volunteers working with the Thai police because they are the "access" to the Brits in trouble. That way the Bravo viewer doesn't have to put up with some foreigner babbling in their own language, because we Brits who own tellys don't like that sort of nonsense - foreigners speaking in their own languages. The series was never meant to win any awards. It also had zero investigative remit (Bravo didn't want that and certainly weren't paying for that, and the feeling at Vera/Virgin is that this would have been incomprehensible to the Bravo viewer), and they really weren't at all interested in how corrupt the Thai police force is or isn't. Is any UK TV channel - terrestrial or otherwise - interested in paying for that anymore? If so, I'd be interested to know which. And there's plenty of corruption on our doorstep in the UK (police included) without looking for it in a place most Brits would struggle to find on a map. One thing Vera can't do, though they may fake and mislead, get facts wrong and bring people back from the dead, is manipulate actual footage shot - even within the eight hours, let alone the 250 hours sent back to them. There is a story to be told from the footage which is constructive from all sides, and informative rather than lowest common denominator. There were some interesting questions put and answered - prison bosses talking about karma with reference to inmates (and whether they deserve it or not, their treatment etc), the Thai attitude to sex, and sex for sale, compromise rather than confrontation etc etc ... so you can see why I wasn't in the edit.

Maizefarmer - with all due respect to your pal established investigative journalists are very thin on the ground in the UK. Tom Bower is one. Hasn't he got better stuff to do than expose Thai Tourist Police volunteers? Shame.

Maizefarmer - outside of so-called "news" Bravo's about the best Thailand's going to get in terms of attention from UK programme-makers. And that won't be changing anytime soon, so we'd better face up to "reality" and get used to the new media age.

And by the way, where do you think the money comes from to make these programmes, or the sort of old-school Panorama you're so nostalgic about? Certainly not from anyone who watches it over the internet - by illegal downloads or on You Tube.

Edited October 24, 2009 by BTITmaker

[BTITmaker]

According to an email forward, Pattayaman71 and Whistleblower are actually the same person mailing from different IPs, the source is Pattaya Ghost.

"The Pattaya Ghost has it in for Gavin Hill and especially the Tourist Police Volunteers after a run in concerning non-payment of a 1,000+ baht bill at a Pattaya go-go last March".

ThaiEye - I've had good dealings with the ghostly one and I don't think he'd be that cheap - pursuing a vendetta over a measly 1,000 Baht??!! I think you've got the wrong man ... sorry, spirit.

[ThaiEye]

According to an email forward, Pattayaman71 and Whistleblower are actually the same person mailing from different IPs, the source is Pattaya Ghost.

"The Pattaya Ghost has it in for Gavin Hill and especially the Tourist Police Volunteers after a run in concerning non-payment of a 1,000+ baht bill at a Pattaya go-go last March".

ThaiEye - I've had good dealings with the ghostly one and I don't think he'd be that cheap - pursuing a vendetta over a measly 1,000 Baht??!! I think you've got the wrong man ... sorry, spirit.

Are you sure? Go, check the Ghost's RSS Feed and his friend in propaganda arms, Talen. That 1,000 baht wasn't actually Ghosts'. it was a friend of his down on Soi 6, that he is tossed off with.