Ways To Improve 'western Foreigner' Reputation Here

[dumball]

My My , now who's the bitter person , it truly amazes me when a thai-wise can complain all he likes about what he does not agree with and then put down some-one who merely passed an opinion of his own in words you obviously do not understand and call him all kinds of names . 'Tis a shame realy , because diversity of thought , especialy 'Outside of the box' , can bring on a whole plethora of thinking that can excite the imagination and lead to some exciting conversations , but of course , that takes a little extra energy between the ears .

[phetaroi]

I do not know which country you were dragged up in , but that is the manner in which I was raised to behave no matter what country I live in , but when the locals act like children with low morals , what is one supposed to do . Most of what you see Thai doing etc is mostly all about 'Face' , I am whom I am , I do not need nor wish to put on a facade for any person , maipenrai is for the birds , sweep the problems under the carpet until you are no longer able to see over the carpet , that to me is Thailands biggest problem . They are like this with too many things , do not fix it until it is broken , just look at the general state of the country and its people that has deteriorated to this state of sanook , nobody realy gives a S$%t about much as long as they get what they want 'Right Now' , even the small children act that way . When Thai start to treat foreiners with well meant respect instead of a constant SHAM , maybe they will then deserve to receive the respect of others , this has to include all levels of thai society , but do not hold your breath !!!!!!!!!

First, many aspects of "morality are not universal. It seems to me that when you're visiting another country -- and unless you're now a Thai citizen, you are just visiting -- you need to respect (not in the sense of like) the local culture. No, it doesn't mean you have to agree with everything, but to me it does require a bit of a balancing act.

Mai pben rai is a mixed bag. On the one hand, in the west everything is a crisis, even when it's not. There's nothing wrong with mai pben rai when it's akin to "don't sweat the small stuff". Of course, not everything is "small stuff", and that's where I have some problems with mai pben rai. The fact that not walking in front of someone is not a Thai courtesy is not a big thing...after all, they have their own cultural courtesies that are different. The fact that there are so many industrial accidents that result in amputations is a big thing...that's an example of where I can't quite tolerate mai pben rai.

"I am who I am"? You must be Popeye. We all put on faces. In every culture.

When you say that nobody gives a shit about anything, they just want what they want right now...are you talking about Thailand or the West. Seems to fit both cultures pretty well, albeit in slightly different ways.

[phetaroi]

For all I know those guys coulda been missionaries (although they sure weren't dressed like mormons; as they had no pen holder in their shirt pockets, nor were they wearing those snazzy name tags). Perhaps they were on a field trip from the asylum. I think the real story was they were off to save the pangolins, white footed ferrets or (insert your endangered species here). I don't know and only report what I saw and overheard.

I didn't necessarily mean to put the aforementioned men in my earlier post down (Okay, you got me on that one I did but not that much ). I prefer to think I was using descriptive terms so the reader (in the comfort of their own home, I might ad) would get a crystal clear picture in their minds' eye of how those people appeared to me.

I know from first hand experience I garner more respect from thais when wearing a nice suit than when wearing my normal attire of levi jeans and KISS t-shirts; even though inside I'm still the same person. I know this, because time and again I am treated differently by thais (even ones who know me) based solely on how I appear to them. Perception IS reality, and how people perceive you is how you will be judged, especially so if they don't know you.

'clinique': I think I'm glad you've been in-country 25 years (your thai-ness is certainly showing). I freely admit I don't have near the time in-country as you (and pray to the goddess I never do). Yet somehow without morphing into something I am clearly not nor would ever want to become and without adopting anything I perceive as oxymoronic indigenous cultural aberrations; I seem to interact with, deal with the problems that arise in my life, and for the most part get along with the thais just fine. Whether thais like me or not at the end of the day has little if any meaning or impact on me; it's about solving problems, resolving issues, and and accomplishing the goal I have at that particular time.

As an astute reader my garner from my posts (or if you're not one of the sharpest tool in the shed, possibly not ) I am opinionated to the extreme and I have no qualms of calling a spade a spade (or if that's too politically incorrect, a shovel a shovel ).

I don't care what country I'm in at the time, nor do I care the nationality of the person I'am opining about. One only needs to read my signature to realize that. I am an "equal opportunity' disparager and I don't discriminate solely based race, creed, or color.

So I assume you don't mind when others call a spade a spade. Okay. You're not half as funny as you think you are. You think your morals are better, although you don't care who you insult and put down. You're sarcastic to the extreme. When you say, "it's about solving problems, resolving issues, and and accomplishing the goal I have at that particular time" -- I get it...it's all about you.

You are -- in my view -- the epitome of the ugly American (or wherever...the principle is the same).When you say, "I don't have near the time in-country as you (and pray to the goddess I never do)," I can only say that I hope that for you, as well.

As you point out, you are of the KISS generation. That's sooo seventies.

[phetaroi]

I do not think my Ópinion' was anti-Thai , I just put things in my own personal way of thinking what "I "felt went on around me in Thailand , I am a long way from being a miserable and bitter person , just have a different perspective on life as it affects me .

For you so thinking intelligent amongst the posters on TV with your'"Go home" "" Why are you here " "Get the F$%^k out " "If you don't like it leave " comments , you are not actualy that smart , in fact I do not even consider you intelligent enough to even have an intelligent thought , want to know why ? Had you just took a nano-second to cast your eyes a couple of inches to the left , you would have been somewhat enlightened (If that is possible) by the fact that my avatar CLEARLY states I AM IN CAMBODIA . Should you think a little before denegrating a person you know nothing about , maybe even you may feel better about yourself .

Maybe I'm just asking this question because I'm one of those intellectuals you mention, how exactly does your avatar show that you are in Cambodia?????

[bkkjames]

I do not think my Ópinion' was anti-Thai , I just put things in my own personal way of thinking what "I "felt went on around me in Thailand , I am a long way from being a miserable and bitter person , just have a different perspective on life as it affects me .

For you so thinking intelligent amongst the posters on TV with your'"Go home" "" Why are you here " "Get the F$%^k out " "If you don't like it leave " comments , you are not actualy that smart , in fact I do not even consider you intelligent enough to even have an intelligent thought , want to know why ? Had you just took a nano-second to cast your eyes a couple of inches to the left , you would have been somewhat enlightened (If that is possible) by the fact that my avatar CLEARLY states I AM IN CAMBODIA . Should you think a little before denegrating a person you know nothing about , maybe even you may feel better about yourself .

Maybe I'm just asking this question because I'm one of those intellectuals you mention, how exactly does your avatar show that you are in Cambodia?????

It must all that chrome on his bike mate. Dead giveaway.

[bigboob]

mods can we give vacations here!

[Huey]

Where's your chrome bike bigboob? LOL

[kblaze]

I think you are right on with #2

[ quote name=CarlBkk' date='2009-10-03 23:25:31' post='3052997]

How can foreigners improve their reputation here? When honest locals state the negative attributes associated with us, the same olds keep cropping up:

1. Grumpiness. Some of us are just too serious, smile little and get shirty too easily.

2. Easy. Yep, we're an easy catch. For any girl who admits to slight worry over what other Thais might think of her because she's with a foreigner it's because of this reason: foreign guys, even young goodlooking ones, are so often seen with "below par" girls in the below leagues who resemble poor/rural/bargirls that we're associated with the ugliest lowest classes as our choice of partner. I'm not being derogatory, but it's a fact. Most middle class respectable girls realise that foreign guys are an easy catch for the darker, confident, partying serial-farang-daters that gave up on finding a decent Thai guy years ago. We have a reputation for accepting the first girl that approaches us, which so often happens to be the above type....so the slightly shyer, lighter-skinned and higher class girls don't get a look in and don't try either. Solution is to take time and find someone on a similar level as we would in the West. Darker skin ok, but with some class and education: other Thais will notice it quickly.

3. Body odour. As already done.

4. Dress sense. Going around Paragon in shorts, sandals and fake brand T-shirt just don't cut it here. At home in this heat it wouldn't matter, but this is Asia...people like to be smart when they go somewhere relatively "expensive" and "upper class". Whether we like it or not, we are judged on our dress just as fellow Thais are judged on their dress. Dress for the location to fit in and dress to look clean.

5. Joking with low-class Thai words. Some of us take the swear words or derogatory terms and use them to the wrong people trying to get a laugh. Yes, maybe a laugh...but it'll be an embarrassed laugh. The terms and words thrown around in the barscene should stay there. Foreigners speaking Thai trying to show off what bad words they know is a poor idea for a laugh.

[babuhavas]

to stop vomiting at public place.

[Huey]

I think you are right on with #2

[ quote name=CarlBkk' date='2009-10-03 23:25:31' post='3052997]

How can foreigners improve their reputation here? When honest locals state the negative attributes associated with us, the same olds keep cropping up:

1. Grumpiness. Some of us are just too serious, smile little and get shirty too easily.

2. Easy. Yep, we're an easy catch. For any girl who admits to slight worry over what other Thais might think of her because she's with a foreigner it's because of this reason: foreign guys, even young goodlooking ones, are so often seen with "below par" girls in the below leagues who resemble poor/rural/bargirls that we're associated with the ugliest lowest classes as our choice of partner. I'm not being derogatory, but it's a fact. Most middle class respectable girls realise that foreign guys are an easy catch for the darker, confident, partying serial-farang-daters that gave up on finding a decent Thai guy years ago. We have a reputation for accepting the first girl that approaches us, which so often happens to be the above type....so the slightly shyer, lighter-skinned and higher class girls don't get a look in and don't try either. Solution is to take time and find someone on a similar level as we would in the West. Darker skin ok, but with some class and education: other Thais will notice it quickly.

3. Body odour. As already done.

4. Dress sense. Going around Paragon in shorts, sandals and fake brand T-shirt just don't cut it here. At home in this heat it wouldn't matter, but this is Asia...people like to be smart when they go somewhere relatively "expensive" and "upper class". Whether we like it or not, we are judged on our dress just as fellow Thais are judged on their dress. Dress for the location to fit in and dress to look clean.

5. Joking with low-class Thai words. Some of us take the swear words or derogatory terms and use them to the wrong people trying to get a laugh. Yes, maybe a laugh...but it'll be an embarrassed laugh. The terms and words thrown around in the barscene should stay there. Foreigners speaking Thai trying to show off what bad words they know is a poor idea for a laugh.

Thats 100% correct. Unless what your looking for is the first thing that comes along, Shoot for at or above your station. Take your time. Date, don't go for the sex right away, talk with her about things you both can relate on....you know basically the same things you would do if you were courting a nice woman back were ever your from. But when in doubt go old school (ie Pick up the check, open the door, pull out the seat) in short, let her be the woman and you be the man, in the classical sence.

Respect their folks, if you want her to be your wife, get a dinner date with the folks (and this should not be your first) and pull the old man aside and ask him first. Give him that respect. This shows that you respect them and understand them enough that they can feel comfortable to start to really invite you in the family, little by little. Go for a LONG engagement, atleast 1 year. (I did 2)

Thats what worked for me, I got a great wife and good inlaws life at home is good. Real Good.

I think thats a simple recipe for anyone to use here. You may go about it slightly differently, but just make sure you START WITH GOOD QUALITY INGREDIANTS...

(PS my spelling is jacked up, I got some damm good pasta take out infront of me, spell check shall have to wait )

[MrHammer]

I think you are right on with #2

[ quote name=CarlBkk' date='2009-10-03 23:25:31' post='3052997]

How can foreigners improve their reputation here? When honest locals state the negative attributes associated with us, the same olds keep cropping up:

1. Grumpiness. Some of us are just too serious, smile little and get shirty too easily.

2. Easy. Yep, we're an easy catch. For any girl who admits to slight worry over what other Thais might think of her because she's with a foreigner it's because of this reason: foreign guys, even young goodlooking ones, are so often seen with "below par" girls in the below leagues who resemble poor/rural/bargirls that we're associated with the ugliest lowest classes as our choice of partner. I'm not being derogatory, but it's a fact. Most middle class respectable girls realise that foreign guys are an easy catch for the darker, confident, partying serial-farang-daters that gave up on finding a decent Thai guy years ago. We have a reputation for accepting the first girl that approaches us, which so often happens to be the above type....so the slightly shyer, lighter-skinned and higher class girls don't get a look in and don't try either. Solution is to take time and find someone on a similar level as we would in the West. Darker skin ok, but with some class and education: other Thais will notice it quickly.

3. Body odour. As already done.

4. Dress sense. Going around Paragon in shorts, sandals and fake brand T-shirt just don't cut it here. At home in this heat it wouldn't matter, but this is Asia...people like to be smart when they go somewhere relatively "expensive" and "upper class". Whether we like it or not, we are judged on our dress just as fellow Thais are judged on their dress. Dress for the location to fit in and dress to look clean.

5. Joking with low-class Thai words. Some of us take the swear words or derogatory terms and use them to the wrong people trying to get a laugh. Yes, maybe a laugh...but it'll be an embarrassed laugh. The terms and words thrown around in the barscene should stay there. Foreigners speaking Thai trying to show off what bad words they know is a poor idea for a laugh.

Thats 100% correct. Unless what your looking for is the first thing that comes along, Shoot for at or above your station. Take your time. Date, don't go for the sex right away, talk with her about things you both can relate on....you know basically the same things you would do if you were courting a nice woman back were ever your from. But when in doubt go old school (ie Pick up the check, open the door, pull out the seat) in short, let her be the woman and you be the man, in the classical sence.

Respect their folks, if you want her to be your wife, get a dinner date with the folks (and this should not be your first) and pull the old man aside and ask him first. Give him that respect. This shows that you respect them and understand them enough that they can feel comfortable to start to really invite you in the family, little by little. Go for a LONG engagement, atleast 1 year. (I did 2)

Thats what worked for me, I got a great wife and good inlaws life at home is good. Real Good.

I think thats a simple recipe for anyone to use here. You may go about it slightly differently, but just make sure you START WITH GOOD QUALITY INGREDIANTS...

(PS my spelling is jacked up, I got some damm good pasta take out infront of me, spell check shall have to wait )

Two good posts..

But isn't the attraction to Thailand for many the easy access to giks, girlfriends and wives? Nice beaches and good food too. If we're honest? You make finding a suitable girl in Thailand sound like so much work.. This is Thailand, do you really want to work hard.. in Thailand?

Jokes aside, I think it takes a big effort to get to the point you're talking about as a foreigner in any country and even more in a traditional culture such as the Thai. Is it worth it? Guess it would be for the right girl, but you wouldn't meet her unless you made the effort?

[bonobo]

I think you are right on with #2

[ quote name=CarlBkk' date='2009-10-03 23:25:31' post='3052997]

How can foreigners improve their reputation here? When honest locals state the negative attributes associated with us, the same olds keep cropping up:

1. Grumpiness. Some of us are just too serious, smile little and get shirty too easily.

2. Easy. Yep, we're an easy catch. For any girl who admits to slight worry over what other Thais might think of her because she's with a foreigner it's because of this reason: foreign guys, even young goodlooking ones, are so often seen with "below par" girls in the below leagues who resemble poor/rural/bargirls that we're associated with the ugliest lowest classes as our choice of partner. I'm not being derogatory, but it's a fact. Most middle class respectable girls realise that foreign guys are an easy catch for the darker, confident, partying serial-farang-daters that gave up on finding a decent Thai guy years ago. We have a reputation for accepting the first girl that approaches us, which so often happens to be the above type....so the slightly shyer, lighter-skinned and higher class girls don't get a look in and don't try either. Solution is to take time and find someone on a similar level as we would in the West. Darker skin ok, but with some class and education: other Thais will notice it quickly.

3. Body odour. As already done.

4. Dress sense. Going around Paragon in shorts, sandals and fake brand T-shirt just don't cut it here. At home in this heat it wouldn't matter, but this is Asia...people like to be smart when they go somewhere relatively "expensive" and "upper class". Whether we like it or not, we are judged on our dress just as fellow Thais are judged on their dress. Dress for the location to fit in and dress to look clean.

5. Joking with low-class Thai words. Some of us take the swear words or derogatory terms and use them to the wrong people trying to get a laugh. Yes, maybe a laugh...but it'll be an embarrassed laugh. The terms and words thrown around in the barscene should stay there. Foreigners speaking Thai trying to show off what bad words they know is a poor idea for a laugh.

Thats 100% correct. Unless what your looking for is the first thing that comes along, Shoot for at or above your station. Take your time. Date, don't go for the sex right away, talk with her about things you both can relate on....you know basically the same things you would do if you were courting a nice woman back were ever your from. But when in doubt go old school (ie Pick up the check, open the door, pull out the seat) in short, let her be the woman and you be the man, in the classical sence.

Respect their folks, if you want her to be your wife, get a dinner date with the folks (and this should not be your first) and pull the old man aside and ask him first. Give him that respect. This shows that you respect them and understand them enough that they can feel comfortable to start to really invite you in the family, little by little. Go for a LONG engagement, atleast 1 year. (I did 2)

Thats what worked for me, I got a great wife and good inlaws life at home is good. Real Good.

I think thats a simple recipe for anyone to use here. You may go about it slightly differently, but just make sure you START WITH GOOD QUALITY INGREDIANTS...

(PS my spelling is jacked up, I got some damm good pasta take out infront of me, spell check shall have to wait )

Two good posts..

But isn't the attraction to Thailand for many the easy access to giks, girlfriends and wives? Nice beaches and good food too. If we're honest? You make finding a suitable girl in Thailand sound like so much work.. This is Thailand, do you really want to work hard.. in Thailand?

Jokes aside, I think it takes a big effort to get to the point you're talking about as a foreigner in any country and even more in a traditional culture such as the Thai. Is it worth it? Guess it would be for the right girl, but you wouldn't meet her unless you made the effort?

True, not every male is here to find a wife.  But even for those who are interested in the more temporary-type liaisons, or who are here for the scuba, golf, food, whatever, the advice given above is still valid.  Dress appropriately, act appropriately, and treat others with respect will go along way in having Thais formulate more positive opinions of westerners as a whole.

From what I have observed, and from what I have been told by Thai friends, most Thais are very positive towards western women here in Thailand. They are welcomed almost anywhere.  Yet both western women and western men come from the same cultures.  So it seems to me that perhaps the women comport themselves a little better here, with a little more consideration and respect given the Thai people and culture? 

I am not trying to paint with too broad a brush here, but even considering the Soi Cowboy-type bar scene, western men can and should act with a little more consideration and respect towards Thais.  Even in a girlie bar, you don't have to be a jerk.  And I don't think most men are jerks.  But it only takes a few to brand all western men as such.

[Tod Daniels]

Quite the diatribe against my somewhat tongue in cheek posting here on this forum 'phetaroi'..

Unless I am mistaken a long time ago someone famous said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", but in retrospect, I think we killed him, so go figure...

This thread is how we can improve western foreigners’ reputations here, yet your post seems to add nothing constructive it. However, as it was directed at me, let me at least address some of your points of contention in my observations;

So I assume you don't mind when others call a spade a spade. Nope, knock yourself out, your perception is your reality, mine is mine, deal with it

You're not half as funny as you think you are. Aww, and I thought I had you fooled with my cynical witty acerbic style

You think your morals are better, although you don't care who you insult and put down. As I said I am an equal opportunity disparager although I made no reference to my morals or lack thereof..

You're sarcastic to the extreme. And your problem with that is?????

I get it...it's all about you. Hang on, let me check, yep, I'm in this life FOR ME...

You are -- in my view -- the epitome of the ugly American. Easy now, I resemble that remark, or at least the American part of it

When you say, "I don't have near the time in-country as you (and pray to the goddess I never do)," I can only say that I hope that for you, as well. I'll take that as a compliment, and quote Paul Stanley of KISS who said, "I may not be here for a long time but I'm damned well gonna be here for a good time..

As you point out, you are of the KISS generation. That's sooo seventies. Being 50 it stands to reason I grew up in the 60's-70's, so as like all people of that generation KISS was an influence, and anyone who can sell 80 million albums based on ultra simplistic music, garish make-up and over the top stage shows can't be all bad.

You will note I also pointed out that in my oh-so short 4+ years in-country I've never ever had a problem with the diminutive yet ever smiling indigenous natives here, not even once.. I have however had more problems than I care count from what I perceive as mindless foreign sock-puppets who are embracing their inner thai-ness with their tattooed, gold encrusted and seemingly obligatory thai (in)significant other in tow.

Again, all I post about are my observations here; your mileage may vary, some restrictions apply, read the fine print..

At the end of the day, I don't have to 'fit in' to this society nor embrace all things thai to live here; because as you pointed out quite succinctly I might add - I'm am American

[buddda]

what reputation does one expect to get in a country known for partying and girls?

thailand needs to clean up its own rep be4 worrying those of its visitors.

GOD I HOPE THEY NEVER DO!

[Huey]

Oh and just to make it clear. My advise is for when you want a decent relationship with a good woman. And yes it is work and yest it dose take time and effort and yes it is quite worth it when done correctly.

Thats a good thing of course but that's not for everyone. If you want to whore around thats great too for some folks and I have a whole other list of good advise for getting the best bang for your buck.

Pun fully intended and endorsed

[WhiteShrek]

.... Shoot for at or above your station. Take your time. Date, don't go for the sex right away, talk with her about things you both can relate on....you know basically the same things you would do if you were courting a nice woman back were ever your from. But when in doubt go old school (ie Pick up the check, open the door, pull out the seat) in short, let her be the woman and you be the man, in the classical sence.

Respect their folks, if you want her to be your wife, get a dinner date with the folks (and this should not be your first) and pull the old man aside and ask him first. Give him that respect. This shows that you respect them and understand them enough that they can feel comfortable to start to really invite you in the family, little by little. Go for a LONG engagement, atleast 1 year. (I did 2)

Thats what worked for me, I got a great wife and good inlaws life at home is good. Real Good.

I think thats a simple recipe for anyone to use here. You may go about it slightly differently, but just make sure you START WITH GOOD QUALITY INGREDIANTS...

(PS my spelling is jacked up, I got some damm good pasta take out infront of me, spell check shall have to wait )

Nothing personal, but these 'I've got a "good" wife look at me' posts get boring and comes across as shallow. This idea of a trophy wife that Thais "approve of" simply reminds me of the guy who buys a flash car "to compensate". Trophies are only important to those who own them. In reality other people don't really care after they've looked at it for a few minutes - they just get on with their lives. When I choose a partner it's based on what I want, not what 65mio Thais approve of or not. If that's the price of gaining a "good" reputation in Thailand.....

Sorry for being personal for one example, but... what you describe in your relationship would come across as rather insipid to many. So you and the Mrs want to recite 500,000 pages of Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace in a classical way before you get hot and passionate- whatever (slowly) melts your butter. If you're happy. good luck to you. Some people are simply more shall we say hot and passionate. Each to their own.

Lastly, giving an extra seconds thought to some of the people who will think for half a second then come up with 2+2=5, please don't jump to conclusions on the princess in my life either way - it's simply I don't feel the need to convince anyone... I'm happy enough with my reputation and family not to have to tell thousands of people I've never met about them..

Easy donkey.....

Edited October 8, 2009 by WhiteShrek

[WhiteShrek]

.... Shoot for at or above your station. ....you know basically the same things you would do if you were courting a nice woman back were ever your from.... (PS my spelling is jacked up, I got some damm good pasta take out infront of me, spell check shall have to wait )

This idea of searching for a Thai catch "above your station" might be fine for you bottom feeders who have lots of choice above you in Thailand. For those of us at the top of the food chain what are we supposed to do...

[toptuan]

The problem is for those of us with bodies adapted to cold climates, we take a shower and are then drenched again 10 minutes later.

Lay off the high-fat foods and booze, loose a few pounds, and you'll have an epiphany.

[toptuan]

My personal checklist:

• Take off the shorts to opt for long pants unless you're at the beach; off the beach, you look like an old man with a kid's whilrybird beanie to a Thai
  
• Take off the tank top and wear a proper T-shirt; no one wants to look at (or smell) your sweaty armpits
  
• Cut the boozing
  
• Cut the womanizing
  
• Include two to three showers in normal weather
  
• Include three to four showers in hotter weather
  
• Communicate more with eyes and facial expression, and less with your loud voice
  
• Develop your patience and longsuffering; impatience and temper is disgusting to Thais and is a show of weakness.
  
• No matter what the age of your spouse, also develop a circle of Thai friends about your own age. You'll be amazed at how much it legitimizes your presence in Thai society and/or your village.
  
• Work hard at learning to speak and read Thai; lack of doing so shows laziness (at best) and indifference to the host culture (at worst)
  
• Learn to flow with Thai traffic, not be the banner-waver for western driving habits
  
• Never criticize Thai culture or government in front of your Thai friends; you're a guest, act like it.
  
• Along that same line, stop going on about how much better your home country is; your Thai friends don't need to be told; they know what's better and what's hot air.
  
• Put aside the Heineken and English breakfast (spaghetti, bratwurst, etc.) once in a while for a try at some Thai food; your Thai friends will appreciate it.
  
• If you're over 40, be clean-shaven. With a beard you look like the Thai's stereotype image of a dirty old man. Even if you are a dirty old man, the Thais will appreciate you faking like you're not.
  
• Learn how and when to "wai" properly. This is one of the ABC's of learning Thai culture. Imagine living all your life in the west, never learning how to properly shake hands.
  

Edited October 8, 2009 by toptuan

[OxfordWill]

People love to blame it on khao san but lets be honest- walk down sukhumvit at business closing times, lots of office Thai workers going home, loko at the average farang dress code. Pretty shabby. I know its hot but why do so many adults need to wear shorts in the evening?

Basically jsut be aware of your surroundings like youre on a stage and the audience is constantly watching and judging you because you know what, thats exactly what is happening every second you are in public.

Edited October 8, 2009 by OxfordWill

[britmaveric]

Simply put treat thai people the same way you would like to be treated!! If you do this everything else is moot.

Be yourself and accept individuality is to be praised rather than frowned upon. Being part of the collective is not smth to pursue.

Ask yourself... Does a Thai person worry about what a westerner thinks about them and deems it critical to their well being? Course they do not, so don't fall in that trap yourself.

Edited October 8, 2009 by britmaveric

[clinique]

<br />My personal checklist:<br /><br /><ul><li>Take off the shorts to opt for long pants unless you're at the beach; off the beach, you look like an old man with a kid's whilrybird beanie to a Thai</li><li>Take off the tank top and wear a proper T-shirt; no one wants to look at (or smell) your sweaty armpits</li><li>Cut the boozing</li><li>Cut the womanizing</li><li>Include two to three showers in normal weather</li><li>Include three to four showers in hotter weather</li><li>Communicate more with eyes and facial expression, and less with your loud voice</li><li>Develop your patience and longsuffering; impatience and temper is disgusting to Thais and is a show of weakness.</li><li>No matter what the age of your spouse, also develop a circle of Thai friends about your own age. You'll be amazed at how much it legitimizes your presence in Thai society and/or your village. </li><li>Work hard at learning to speak and read Thai; lack of doing so shows laziness (at best) and indifference to the host culture (at worst)</li><li>Learn to flow with Thai traffic, not be the banner-waver for western driving habits</li><li>Never criticize Thai culture or government in front of your Thai friends; you're a guest, act like it. </li><li>Along that same line, stop going on about how much better your home country is; your Thai friends don't need to be told; they know what's better and what's hot air. </li><li>Put aside the Heineken and English breakfast (spaghetti, bratwurst, etc.) once in a while for a try at some Thai food; your Thai friends will appreciate it.</li><li>If you're over 40, be clean-shaven. With a beard you look like the Thai's stereotype image of a dirty old man. Even if you are a dirty old man, the Thais will appreciate you faking like you're not. </li><li>Learn how and when to "<i>wai</i>" properly. This is one of the ABC's of learning Thai culture. Imagine living all your life in the west, never learning how to properly shake hands.</li></ul><br />

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thanks topthuan,

i posted alist like thiseary on in the piece and was poo-poohed for it...

glad to see it,,

[Huey]

.... Shoot for at or above your station. Take your time. Date, don't go for the sex right away, talk with her about things you both can relate on....you know basically the same things you would do if you were courting a nice woman back were ever your from. But when in doubt go old school (ie Pick up the check, open the door, pull out the seat) in short, let her be the woman and you be the man, in the classical sence.

Respect their folks, if you want her to be your wife, get a dinner date with the folks (and this should not be your first) and pull the old man aside and ask him first. Give him that respect. This shows that you respect them and understand them enough that they can feel comfortable to start to really invite you in the family, little by little. Go for a LONG engagement, atleast 1 year. (I did 2)

Thats what worked for me, I got a great wife and good inlaws life at home is good. Real Good.

I think thats a simple recipe for anyone to use here. You may go about it slightly differently, but just make sure you START WITH GOOD QUALITY INGREDIANTS...

(PS my spelling is jacked up, I got some damm good pasta take out infront of me, spell check shall have to wait )

Nothing personal, but these 'I've got a "good" wife look at me' posts get boring and comes across as shallow. This idea of a trophy wife that Thais "approve of" simply reminds me of the guy who buys a flash car "to compensate". Trophies are only important to those who own them. In reality other people don't really care after they've looked at it for a few minutes - they just get on with their lives. When I choose a partner it's based on what I want, not what 65mio Thais approve of or not. If that's the price of gaining a "good" reputation in Thailand.....

Sorry for being personal for one example, but... what you describe in your relationship would come across as rather insipid to many. So you and the Mrs want to recite 500,000 pages of Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace in a classical way before you get hot and passionate- whatever (slowly) melts your butter. If you're happy. good luck to you. Some people are simply more shall we say hot and passionate. Each to their own.

Lastly, giving an extra seconds thought to some of the people who will think for half a second then come up with 2+2=5, please don't jump to conclusions on the princess in my life either way - it's simply I don't feel the need to convince anyone... I'm happy enough with my reputation and family not to have to tell thousands of people I've never met about them..

Easy donkey.....

Really and truly you picked your avatar well. For only a grumpy ogre would hate on someone trying to offer positive advise and real world examples. If you feel bent out of shape by what I had to say, then that's a personal problem. Try having something constructive to say rather than just bitching about people who are trying to help. Sadly your "crabs in a barrel" attitude is not uncommon amongst some of us expats here.

Check out this barrel of live crabs....

See how they can fill the damm thing to the very top yet none of the crabs jump out and skitter a way?

That's because as soon as one crab gets up to the top to climb over another crab pinches it's legs and pulls em back down. Crabs are natural haters like ogre here that can't stand to see anyone better off or happier than them so they wanna hate and try and bring you down with them.

I hope some issan girl makes som tam out of you

Oh and as for the food chain comment, just because you can out eat everyone around you dose not place you at the top of the food chain slim.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Huey

[MrHammer]

What does dress approiatly mean by the way? In Thailand it seems to be dress like an office cubicle slave, where as that's seen as boring and lack of personality back home.

[elkangorito]

Thailand is no different to anywhere else in my book.

I've lived here for almost 4 years & have noticed that "1st impressions" are important. Isn't this the case in any other country? I must add that 1st impressions here are VERY important in Thailand.

So, once one has their leg in the door & has established a good 1st impression, one can relax a little because one soon realises that most Thais value what others value...honesty (I know some will find this hard to believe) & trust.

This may come as a surprise but regardless of all the mindless indoctrination that happens here, Thai people are just the same as you & I. We all value trust & honesty...& these things need to be tried, tested & proven over time.

Your "real" Thai friends will understand & tolerate your differences as you would do unto them. Isn't this the same in the Western World?

Conversely, the Thais you meet who stubbornly follow "the rules", are probably inflexible & "cold". Avoid these people...as you would in the Western World but give them a chance to change.

We all can change...can't we?

Edited October 8, 2009 by elkangorito

[Jingthing]

Frankly, I don't care at all about my "reputation" as a westerner in Thailand. If I was the kind of person who placed much value on what others think of me, I don't think I would have moved to Thailand in the first place. Does this make me a bad person? Don't answer that, I don't care!

[IanForbes]

Frankly, I don't care at all about my "reputation" as a westerner in Thailand. If I was the kind of person who placed much value on what others think of me, I don't think I would have moved to Thailand in the first place. Does this make me a bad person? Don't answer that, I don't care!

I agree with you, Jingthing. I don't really care what people think of me either. I treat everyone I meet with respect. I don't pass judgement on anyone until they do something to alter my opinion. I can't say I've ever had a problem other than the perverted opinions by people back home who have no idea of the complexity of Thailand. Certainly Thailand has a reputation of being a sex tourism hangout for elderly males of other societies. But, even that is understandable if you know the reasons why and what the actual statistics are.

The original question was how to improve the western foreigner reputation. That is easy... treat every Thai you meet with respect and understanding. And, that pretty much sums it up.

[OxfordWill]

Well some people do have the luxury of being able to not care what others think.. and it is a luxury. Many people have to operate in public environments like offices etc etc and unfortunately, it can matter alot

[britmaveric]

Frankly, I don't care at all about my "reputation" as a westerner in Thailand. If I was the kind of person who placed much value on what others think of me, I don't think I would have moved to Thailand in the first place. Does this make me a bad person? Don't answer that, I don't care!

Wow Jing another thing we agree on!!!

[toptuan]

Frankly, I don't care at all about my "reputation" as a westerner in Thailand. If I was the kind of person who placed much value on what others think of me, I don't think I would have moved to Thailand in the first place. Does this make me a bad person? Don't answer that, I don't care!

Unfortunately, Thailand does attract these types. They take advantage of the laid-back Thai culture and politeness of Thais who won't confront them. It doesn't lessen Thai's disgust of this type of foreigner, however. Hard to make real Thai friends with this type of attitude.