West Ham United V. Millwall Violence

[Jimjim]

From the BBC website:

Mass Violence Mars London Derby

A man has been stabbed in the chest during violence involving "hundreds" of fans outside West Ham's Upton Park stadium during a game with Millwall....(see link for more)

Your thoughts?

Edited August 25, 2009 by Jimjim

[EastSaxCol]

Already expressed on the West Ham thread. Except to say that the British Army is short of a few thousand suchlike heroes.

[Geekfreaklover]

I'm sad about it mate to be honest. Theres no excuse. But perhaps more police and more tickets for the away supporters would have helped. The game should have been called off after the second pitch invasion.

I would be supprised if the Hammers are allowed to progress in the cup.

And the way FIFA look at English clubs it may damage the chances of hosting the world cup.

I think it just a bunch of kids and knuckle heads juiced up beer and watching Greenstreet and the like. What a bunch of tossers.

Its just embarassing.

Gutted.

[Jimjim]

Already expressed on the West Ham thread. Except to say that the British Army is short of a few thousand suchlike heroes.

Of course, but I think this deserves it's own thread. Pretty rare to see it so bad like this these days, isn't it?

[KhaoNiaw]

I think it just a bunch of kids and knuckle heads juiced up beer and watching Greenstreet and the like. What a bunch of tossers.

Not to mention 40-50 somethings looking to relive the good old days. (But I don't think anyone could watch Green Street to get themselves into the spirit of things - you'd be too busy laughing yourself silly).

[EastSaxCol]

[quote Not to mention 40-50 somethings looking to relive the good old days. I don't think anyone could watch Green Street to get themselves into the spirit of things - you'd be too busy laughing yourself sill.

A difficult manoeuvre I'd imagine -- reaching for the remote over a beer belly whilst being doubled up with laughing -- in order to just turn the thing off.

[thaimiller]

I was totally shocked to hear it, who would have though violence at a West Ham Vs Millwall game......

[Geekfreaklover]

Already expressed on the West Ham thread. Except to say that the British Army is short of a few thousand suchlike heroes.

Of course, but I think this deserves it's own thread. Pretty rare to see it so bad like this these days, isn't it?

Yes. I thought al this crap was stamped out years ago. At least in England. Maybe it has something to do with recession in England, rise of the BNP. I don't know I haven't been back for a long period in London for years.

[Geekfreaklover]

I was totally shocked to hear it, who would have though violence at a West Ham Vs Millwall game......

You say that, but throughout the history of the clubs it has never been as bad as last night. Brings back memories of Luton away. When you are a true fan of either club it's a bit <deleted> upsetting.

[EastSaxCol]

I picked this post out of many from a West Ham forum. It near treads a middle ground, being quite objective reporting of the events as he saw them. But I've heard of many others with their terrified children, etc , etc.

I was inside and then outside the Queens for quite a while tonight. Missed the first 15 / 20 mins of the game.

Green St. totally blocked by several hundred West Ham. Thin line of half dozen or so police on horseback and a small number of very red faced and sweating cops in riot gear.

The West Ham waiting in Green St thought that the mass of people ahead by the station was Millwall. But I could not see or hear any Millwall at all, could only see more West Ham coming from the tube. Looked like West Ham blocking West Ham. When i left them to it and made my way into the ground i could see all the Millwall were already inside. So, seems to me that the West Ham in Green St were wasting their time...

Sad thing was that Green St. was full of muppets throwing bottles at the police on horseback - one large Magners type bottle hit a horse square in the face [on its visor in fact]. The mounted cops were sitting targets and it was cowardice to aim missiles at them. Even worse was the brainless morons aiming bottles from so far back they were hitting West Ham on the head. Saw West Ham smashing local windows [why do our manor over?]. All in all at that point, total moronic behaviour. Mainly by mugs who would have run at first hint of proper trouble.

In the ground, electric atmosphere - reminded me of the old days. Never thought i'd experience a proper football match again. Will remember this for a long time. Awesome!

The mugs having hand bags with the OB in chav corner were probably not ST holders so probably don't care about consequences. But to be honest, again I think it's been overplayed in the media - mainly pushing and shoving, there was no contact between home and away fans, so was NOT football violence in the true sense, just bad behaviour.

As for the pitch invasions - it was silly but no damage was done so has been totally overplayed by sky news imo. I bet no one in the media will mention the WHU booing of the dicks on the pitch, or the "off off off" chant.

I was shocked at how few OB were outside ground - they totally <deleted>**ed it up tonight. I think they were seriously worried that they were not going to be able to contain things tonight. This was the worst policed West Ham vs Millwall that I've been to.

Disclaimer

I don't of course accept all of his sentiments and comparisons. Only the events as he saw them happening.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Happy Hammer

[thaimiller]

I was totally shocked to hear it, who would have though violence at a West Ham Vs Millwall game......

You say that, but throughout the history of the clubs it has never been as bad as last night. Brings back memories of Luton away. When you are a true fan of either club it's a bit <deleted> upsetting.

Im not as up to date with the stats as you GFL but when the draw was made, there wasn't many people thought that it was going to run smooth. As regards all this sh1t being stamped out years ago, thats rubbish, fair enough its not like the 70' & 80's but its still there and it seems more organised now, the people wanting to fight arrange it by email or phone weeks before the game and meet well away from the ground, thats why its not as in your face as before. Well this was my experience up and till I moved out here 5 years ago.

[Xangsamhua]

Very disappointing. I took a group of students from Thailand to Upton Park (West Ham vs Gillingham) a few years ago and saw nothing objectionable about fans' behaviour, policing along the road to the train, assistance from ground officials - whatever, and we disturbed everyone by arriving late and leaving early (on a tight time-frame, but none of the fans around us complained). Everything was exemplary. Did we just go on a good day?

[MagnumForce]

English scum at it again. There's no way I'd give us the World Cup in 2018. Most successful from the point of view of least trouble that I've been at was Japan 2002. Far far away and way to expensive to get there for all the chavs and w**kers who just want trouble.

[bartender100]

Millwall should be thrown out of the league, their supporters have been the worst for decades, every club dreads them coming

[StevieH]

only one stabbing? hoolies aren't what they used to be.

[EastSaxCol]

Very disappointing. I took a group of students from Thailand to Upton Park (West Ham vs Gillingham) a few years ago and saw nothing objectionable about fans' behaviour, policing along the road to the train, assistance from ground officials - whatever, and we disturbed everyone by arriving late and leaving early (on a tight time-frame, but none of the fans around us complained). Everything was exemplary. Did we just go on a good day?

No, it was that way for decades. Although West Ham and Milllwall games have always been a potential flash point even they -- but for a few incidents -- were so intensely policed that no much happened. Although it's fair to say that games between the two were/are rare and that the level of violence for this one exceeded expectations.

As regards all this sh1t being stamped out years ago, thats rubbish, fair enough its not like the 70' & 80's but its still there and it seems more organised now ...

That's not the case. The days of "the firms" were highly organised both home and away. It just seems that a lot of morons were just up for it last night and went from boozers like the Queens onto the streets and inside the ground. Nothing like the ICF, etc.

only one stabbing? hoolies aren't what they used to be.

Wasn't one stabbing enough outside of Highbury, when a black Arsenal fan was left bleeding to death with an ICF "calling card" by his side ?

Fortunately the bloke stabbed in the chest last night is in a stable condition.

[StevieH]

Wasn't one stabbing enough outside of Highbury, when a black Arsenal fan was left bleeding to death with an ICF "calling card" by his side ?

Fortunately the bloke stabbed in the chest last night is in a stable condition.

one stabbing is always one too many, was just making the point that this wasn't that bad a palaver last night. seen much worse in the late 80s and early 90s even, long after the heyday of the lunatics.

that said, that last night felt organised by the usual agitators to be honest.

[richm7]

Shocking, violence at a football match, whooda thought it?

Blimey, you blokes have not been to England recently to witness to general level of ignorant "laddish" neanderthal behaviour that passes as normal these days. And that's just the women!

Look at the average Brit waddling around Thailand and ask yourself "why am I surprised?". It's cool to be a thug now, innit?

Tattoo's from hairy toe to shaven dome, beer guts drooping over shapeless filthy "shorts, a sleeveless grubby vest and <deleted> and blinding at ear shattering levels across the bar to their similarly attired mates. Delightful, makes me proud to be British.

Having said that, West Ham V Millwall is hardly likely to produce football worth watching, now is it?

BTW, <deleted> has it to do with football?

[mrbojangles]

the British Army is short of a few thousand suchlike heroes.

Quote of the day HH

BTW, <deleted> has it to do with football?

[richm7]

the British Army is short of a few thousand suchlike heroes.

Quote of the day HH

BTW, <deleted> has it to do with football?

Dear chap, if I have to explain it you clearly won't understand.

[mrbojangles]

the British Army is short of a few thousand suchlike heroes.

Quote of the day HH

BTW, <deleted> has it to do with football?

Dear chap, if I have to explain it you clearly won't understand.

Go on, give it a try. I'm all ears and you'll find that I'm quite perceptive. However, if you find it too difficult to articulate your point, I'll understand

[nigelandjan]

Looks like the drunken mongels are back from Costa pissup , if the government stopped paying this poxy family tax credit in this country ( which is keeping the wages down for everyone else that does,nt quailify for handouts ) 75% of this shit would,nt be able to afford to go

[EastSaxCol]

Looks like the drunken mongels are back from Costa pissup , if the government stopped paying this poxy family tax credit in this country ( which is keeping the wages down for everyone else that does,nt quailify for handouts ) 75% of this shit would,nt be able to afford to go

Looks like there's some other type of baloney creeping out of the tv woodwork to me.

[StevieH]

Shocking, violence at a football match, whooda thought it?

Blimey, you blokes have not been to England recently to witness to general level of ignorant "laddish" neanderthal behaviour that passes as normal these days. And that's just the women!

Look at the average Brit waddling around Thailand and ask yourself "why am I surprised?". It's cool to be a thug now, innit?

Tattoo's from hairy toe to shaven dome, beer guts drooping over shapeless filthy "shorts, a sleeveless grubby vest and <deleted> and blinding at ear shattering levels across the bar to their similarly attired mates. Delightful, makes me proud to be British.

Having said that, West Ham V Millwall is hardly likely to produce football worth watching, now is it?

BTW, <deleted> has it to do with football?

the slobs you describe have nothing on the 80s and early 90s hooligan who used football as an excuse to have a barney. they're pussycats in comparison.

[StevieH]

Looks like the drunken mongels are back from Costa pissup , if the government stopped paying this poxy family tax credit in this country ( which is keeping the wages down for everyone else that does,nt quailify for handouts ) 75% of this shit would,nt be able to afford to go

family tax credit is the reason that wages are being kept low? that's one of the stupidest, most naive and moronic things i have ever read. congratulations.

[Geekfreaklover]

Millwall should be thrown out of the league, their supporters have been the worst for decades, every club dreads them coming

Rubbish - I've looked at the footage and read all the reports (try you-tube) and all the violence I can see is being caused by the Hammers.

Basically Milllwall have a reputation. When Millwall come to town certain shall we say 'frustrated young men' want to show that they are heros for the day. It happed at Hull. It happened at West Ham.

Of course the media and every other club wants to point the finger at Millwall. But remember Millwall have real true loyal supporters through generations. It's not fair to suggest throwing them out of the league because clubs 'dread them coming'

[highchol]

''Basically Milllwall have a reputation. When Millwall come to town certain shall we say 'frustrated young men' want to show that they are heros for the day. It happed at Hull. It happened at West Ham. ''

your right with this one.

i remember millwall coming to town a few weeks after ''Ftroop'' were brought to everybodys attention back in the 70,s.

the crowd for the match was double what would have been expected. Every nutter from miles around turned up.

[MSingh]

My thoughts ??

It's not Rocket Science, anyone with half a brain would tell you on the morning after the draw was made, if there wa sallowed to be serious, seriuous trouble, there will be & what happened ?? There was allowed to be by the Met's decision to reduce Millwall's Ticket allocation which leads in sequence to silly Internet rumours which turn into full scaled Riots.

How on Earth can the Met think that reducing Millwall's Ticket Allocation & having a possible 600 people minimum, form both sides, on the Streets of East London wihtout Tickets, with the reputation & history of both Clubs, is a good idea as opposed to having them in a controlled Zone IE The Stadium ??

Utter madness.

Obvioulsy you have to condone the actions of both sets of Fans, 2 Men got stabbed for crying out loud, but the Metropolitan Police have undoubtedly fcuked up big time with their plan of how to handle that Game last night..

This is a bad, bad Game with history of violence for over 100 Years now, 100 Years !!!!!!

I was listening to BBC London's Commentary & the Commentators were genuinely afraid as at one time, & i quote " There appears to be fighting going on all around us, if anyone is listenign to this & have their Children here at this Game, take them Home now " which was about 10 mins before we equalised then Bradley Allen saying " I have never in my life experienced a feeling of such hatred & anger at a Football Match in my life "...

There was running battles outside the Ground for 5 hours last night, 5 hours !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can that be allowed to happen with todays Technology ??

How can the Met allow that to happen in the middle of London, one of the biggest Cities in the World & one that is in the top 3 " high alert " Security threats on the Planet ??

As far as the rest is concerned & whta SKY are showing etc, big deal, ok you can't run on to the Pitch anymore but that's all it was, running on the Pitch, euphoria at equalising & leading in a Game which we haven't beaten our most fiercest rivals in 19 Years...

No Millwall Players were attacked, one had a V sign flicked at him & again i'm not condoning it but come on, Football is a passionate Game, passions to sometime spill over but there was much more to be worried about last night than a couple of Pitch invasions by around 1% of the actual attendance..

Edited August 26, 2009 by MSingh

[StevieH]

good post that m. this whole thing smacked of met incompetence. perhaps they've had their budgets or overtime cut recently so they needed something to take to boris johnson.

[Geekfreaklover]

My thoughts ??

It's not Rocket Science, anyone with half a brain would tell you on the morning after the draw was made, if there wa sallowed to be serious, seriuous trouble, there will be & what happened ?? There was allowed to be by the Met's decision to reduce Millwall's Ticket allocation which leads in sequence to silly Internet rumours which turn into full scaled Riots.

How on Earth can the Met think that reducing Millwall's Ticket Allocation & having a possible 600 people minimum, form both sides, on the Streets of East London wihtout Tickets, with the reputation & history of both Clubs, is a good idea as opposed to having them in a controlled Zone IE The Stadium ??

Utter madness.

Obvioulsy you have to condone the actions of both sets of Fans, 2 Men got stabbed for crying out loud, but the Metropolitan Police have undoubtedly fcuked up big time with their plan of how to handle that Game last night..

This is a bad, bad Game with history of violence for over 100 Years now, 100 Years !!!!!!

I was listening to BBC London's Commentary & the Commentators were genuinely afraid as at one time, & i quote " There appears to be fighting going on all around us, if anyone is listenign to this & have their Children here at this Game, take them Home now " which was about 10 mins before we equalised then Bradley Allen saying " I have never in my life experienced a feeling of such hatred & anger at a Football Match in my life "...

There was running battles outside the Ground for 5 hours last night, 5 hours !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can that be allowed to happen with todays Technology ??

How can the Met allow that to happen in the middle of London, one of the biggest Cities in the World & one that is in the top 3 " high alert " Security threats on the Planet ??

As far as the rest is concerned & whta SKY are showing etc, big deal, ok you can't run on to the Pitch anymore but that's all it was, running on the Pitch, euphoria at equalising & leading in a Game which we haven't beaten our most fiercest rivals in 19 Years...

No Millwall Players were attacked, one had a V sign flicked at him & again i'm not condoning it but come on, Football is a passionate Game, passions to sometime spill over but there was much more to be worried about last night than a couple of Pitch invasions by around 1% of the actual attendance..

I agree Msingh, with everything you say. I think ticket allocation caused resentment which led to the number of Millwall fans outside the ground. Also it was under policed and under managed by the ground and of course the met.

Have you seen the sky footage of the constant attempts by the police to keep the home fans in the stands? It was like a battlefield. A large number of home supporters broke onto the pitch three times. Not a single Millwall fan left their stand (thank the lord for that). The players on both sides (and most of the real supporters) must have been glad for that final whistle.

The behaviour of a small minority of West Ham fans within the ground was not passionate - it was violent (for some there is a thin line between the two). The majority of the West Ham fans were booing whilst the thugs ran on the pitch - THREE TIMES. I can't beleive the game was allowed to go on. But had it been stopped the violence, I guess, would have been worse. Sad, sad day for English football. I'm just glad I wasn't in London at the time and decided to take my five year old son to the game.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Geekfreaklover