Do You Support The Governments Use Of The Internal Security Act

[Jingthing]

The Thai government is invoking the rather harsh Internal Security Act in anticipation of potential violence during this Sunday's red shirt pro-Thaksin rally in Bangkok. The obvious justification is the history of violence by the red shirts during Black Songkran, just this April. So, do you support these harsher measures, or not?

[otherstuff1957]

I'm certainly no fan of the redshirts, but they have the right to assemble and be heard.

[Jingthing]

I'm certainly no fan of the redshirts, but they have the right to assemble and be heard.

This act does not prevent them from having a LEGAL, PEACEFUL protest demonstration. Not at all. It is about harsher measures to attempt to PREVENT violence. We will see on Sunday whether it works or not as the rally is happening and the security measures are in effect.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[Travel2003]

Normally when a government implements these kinds of measures, it will be just a matter of time before they are abused and used as personal tools instead.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

It seems to me the real issue here is: would Abhisit do the same with the yellow shirts?

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone knows that the answer is NO!

[Jingthing]

The public stated goal of the red shirts in this rally is the overthrow of the current government to be replaced by a proven dictatorial personality in the name of THAKSIN. In many countries, they would be in jail for treason just saying that. What do you expect the government to do? Bend over? Nobody is justifying the yellow shirt actions before the coup. However, that is the past. We are now living in the present.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[givenall]

It seems to me the real issue here is: would Abhisit do the same with the yellow shirts?

The real issue is who will be in power. and I do no think the Yellow shirt will be anything drastic anymore since people who supported them are fully in power . on the other hand the red shirt (Thaksin) are getting disparate an and their illegal actions including violence are funded by the people who are desperate to keep their power and money (Hint Thaksin,,,,,,)

[tigerboy]

So, do you support these harsher measures, or not?

I fully support! Why? I work in the Dusit district, the *only* district that this ISA is (currently) leveled at. I suffered through the Yellows, not really ready to put up with any other "shirts of color", (there are enough BIB and Camo types there already, cannot do much about them though).

So, if *you* like them so much, by all means, *invite* them (pick a color now...) to your city, district, soi, etc. Let them F*&^ Up your work schedule, possibly *your* life.

FTR, I also experienced all of the "bombs" and "bullets" around the Victory Monument area during Songkran, not really my choice that day BTW, just wanted to go to 7-11.

It's time for *everybody* to move on now...

[Jingthing]

Normally when a government implements these kinds of measures, it will be just a matter of time before they are abused and used as personal tools instead.

That is a valid concern and you make a good point. However, what is a government supposed to do when faced with violent revolutionary insurgents?

[Domanter]

It seems to me the real issue here is: would Abhisit do the same with the yellow shirts?

The real issue is who will be in power. and I do no think the Yellow shirt will be anything drastic anymore since people who supported them are fully in power . on the other hand the red shirt (Thaksin) are getting disparate an and their illegal actions including violence are funded by the people who are desperate to keep their power and money (Hint Thaksin,,,,,,)

I do agree that yes, the Red Shirt did get money from Thaksin (those leaders do get cash from Thaksin for setting up places and some spare for the sake of living and the petrol) but I not think only the Red are "desperate" to keep their power, but the whole Country want Power, from Yellow Shirts, Red Shirts, Green Shirts (you know who I am talking about right? the people with guns), Blue Shirt and the Mafias/Thugs which I would call Black Shirts. All these people want who they want, sometimes you don't get what you want, but sometimes you do. The Red have the rights to do it so it's not illegal. You seen the Yellow with guns? Don't you think that's illegal? Why don't you save your time from talking about Red Shirts that haven't injured any soldiers seriously but just 1 who got a bus ran over his leg. But when the Yellows Shirts wanted the PPP out, they fired bullets at the police PLUS they go a Pick-Up Truck ran at 2 Police. Save your time saying the Red Shirts are illegal and talk about the Yellow instead.

Also if you think Thaksin is desperate for power then I do not think so He can live anywhere he wants now, why bother about Thailand if he doesn't care about this country when he got billions of dollars to spend? This business man is a smart bastard, eventhough he got his cash in Thailand locked in by the damned Goverment (but you know that Thaksin's networth keeps going up coz those money are still in the bank? As long as the money is in, the account gets interest) I think he probably doesn't care about the money in Thailand now because he has got enough cash to travel around. He can live in any Hotels he wants except from the ones in Thailand.

[Domanter]

Normally when a government implements these kinds of measures, it will be just a matter of time before they are abused and used as personal tools instead.

That is a valid concern and you make a good point. However, what is a government supposed to do when faced with violent revolutionary insurgents?

You find police officers/army soldiers and get some M16s? Say that you use blanks but instead you use a real bullet. Also add some M203s to some of the M16s as it might help more.

[Bukseeda]

These are some of the reasons why the internal security act is of concern and should not be used. NB it should be noted that i strongly dislike the red shirts but still believe in their right to protest.

Don't forget that it was the army controlled government that introduced the act in 2007 and its intention is to ensure their influence in any democratically elected government.

(source: Human Rights Watch)

# Article 17, allowing the ISOC director to take command of state agencies by “issuing a notification commanding state officials not to perform any act or to perform any act” to the extent that this is necessary for preventing, suppressing, stopping, and rectifying any situation that affects internal security. This is a blank check to override all laws and human rights protections.

# Article 18, allowing the ISOC director and designated officials to undertake criminal investigators without providing any safeguards or judicial oversight of summons, arrests and detentions. Among other due process concerns, this heightens the risk of torture and other mistreatment of individuals in custody or while under interrogation.

# Article 19, allowing the ISOC director and designated officials to act as criminal investigation officials and have powers similar to those of public prosecutors and judges. They are given the authority to sentence any person found involved in a threat to internal security to attend re-education camps for up to six months. The draft does not state where such camps will be set up or under whose authority (civilian or military). This provision will allow for arbitrary incommunicado detention in undisclosed or inaccessible places where independent monitoring is impossible. It also sidesteps the protections in Thailand’s criminal justice system.

# Article 22, an attempt to legislate impunity for human rights violations by removing the jurisdiction of the Administrative Court and its procedures to address human rights violations committed by state officials. The Administrative Court is currently the most important forum to address human rights violations in Thailand.

# Article 23, which similarly places unnecessary limitations on the ability of victims of human rights violations to use civil, criminal, or administrative remedies to gain redress.

# Article 17, allowing unnecessary restrictions, without a definite timeframe, on the fundamental rights to freedom of expression, assembly, association, and movement.

[EndofDays]

The public stated goal of the red shirts in this rally is the overthrow of the current government to be replaced by a proven dictatorial personality in the name of THAKSIN. In many countries, they would be in jail for treason just saying that. What do you expect the government to do? Bend over? Nobody is justifying the yellow shirt actions before the coup. However, that is the past. We are now living in the present.

The liberal mindset is what applies to you doesn't apply to me. They will oppose it until they take power and then they will justify it in the name of national security.

[EndofDays]

Normally when a government implements these kinds of measures, it will be just a matter of time before they are abused and used as personal tools instead.

That is a valid concern and you make a good point. However, what is a government supposed to do when faced with violent revolutionary insurgents?

Do the same as the U.S. and make him the president.

[Jingthing]

I don't see a good solution for the people or the government as long as Thaksin keeps plotting to grab back power no matter the cost to his country. Somethings got to give. Its like earthquakes here. The pressure builds up and then it gets released, and it isn't pretty. Thaksin is the molten RED lava.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[EndofDays]

I don't see a good solution for the people or the government as long as Thaksin keeps plotting to grab back power no matter the cost to his country. Somethings got to give. Its like earthquakes here. The pressure builds up and then it gets released, and it isn't pretty. Thaksin is the molten RED lava.

It is not Thaskin. It is the Thai system. Thailand can never be a democracy, parlimetary, representative or otherwise. It can only be a facade of one. It is a grab for power by corrupt men who got to power by being corrupt. Maybe Thailand is not to be "democratic". Honestly, to improve it you would have to throw out the entire politcal power-set and I can garauntee they ain't going anywhere.

[dale8]

Hello, Thailand does not need any more illegal riots like what happened for the Songkran holiday. Most Thai people do not support violence or more of it would happen, and the world is watching so tourism would suffer again in Thailand with more riots as most people do not like anarchy. A peaceful meeting is more meaningful, but some people have a different agenda.

[Travel2003]

I don't see a good solution for the people or the government as long as Thaksin keeps plotting to grab back power no matter the cost to his country. Somethings got to give. Its like earthquakes here. The pressure builds up and then it gets released, and it isn't pretty. Thaksin is the molten RED lava.

I totally agree with you here.

I dont want to get too much involved in local politics, as im still a visitor here.

Of course, unless I really feel the changes personally.

But I think Mr. Thaksin should once and for all accept the facts.

I dont see how he is doing any good with his behavour.

Better to stay low for a while, and try to regroup, and get a come back (by proxy), after an election.

He should work behind the scenes.

He should look at Italy (with no disrespect for our Italian members here), and see how a certain political figure there gets back up on his feet, again and again.

[Chunkton]

I'm certainly no fan of the redshirts, but they have the right to assemble and be heard.

This act does not prevent them from having a LEGAL, PEACEFUL protest demonstration. Not at all. It is about harsher measures to attempt to PREVENT violence. We will see on Sunday whether it works or not as the rally is happening and the security measures are in effect.

These suppressionist. military enacted acts are exactly what they appear to be, your rabid hatred of Taksin now haves you endorsing these draconian fascist measures. It should be a police matter and this is not the way to reconciliation.

If you want to live under a junta, why not go home and push for your toxic authoritarianism there as most here do not want to see LOS become more like Burma. Spin it as just being careful, maintaining security etc all you want, this is fascism pure and simple. Thin end of the wedge, frickin' Nazi.

[Moonrakers]

Bloody hel_l. Such partisanship on both sides be it red/yellow/whatever. Compromise is needed for any chance of reconciliation, looks as though we have a long way to go if Thaivisa is anything to go by.

In the words of an infamous Jedi: "Only the Sith lord deals in absolutes"

[Ulysses G.]

I'm certainly no fan of the redshirts, but they have the right to assemble and be heard.

This act does not prevent them from having a LEGAL, PEACEFUL protest demonstration. Not at all. It is about harsher measures to attempt to PREVENT violence. We will see on Sunday whether it works or not as the rally is happening and the security measures are in effect.

These suppressionist. military enacted acts are exactly what they appear to be, your rabid hatred of Taksin now haves you endorsing these draconian fascist measures. It should be a police matter and this is not the way to reconciliation.

If you want to live under a junta, why not go home and push for your toxic authoritarianism there as most here do not want to see LOS become more like Burma. Spin it as just being careful, maintaining security etc all you want, this is fascism pure and simple.

Why do all the "liberals" turn into Il Duce whenever Thaksin's name is mentioned?

[monoli87]

The Thai government is invoking the rather harsh Internal Security Act in anticipation of potential violence during this Sunday's red shirt pro-Thaksin rally in Bangkok. The obvious justification is the history of violence by the red shirts during Black Songkran, just this April. So, do you support these harsher measures, or not?

well i think by implement the harsher rules like internal security act perhaps more possibility in abusing power by actual government soon....

it's obvious in Malaysia nowadays the act so called ISA (Internal Security Act) stand no longer needed by the majority... however the incumbent still necessity for them.....

[monkfish]

100% disagree with using armed forces against any civilians, in this case THAI PEOPLE.

Thia Military vs. Thai people

is that what you want?

[Jingthing]

Civil war isn't pretty. The Abhisit government is just supposed to lay down and take it without a fight? Why? Remember Black Songkran. Those are the kind of violent lawless thugs they are dealing with. Not surprised the vast Thai majority now feels: DEAL WITH THEM!

[tmd5855]

The public stated goal of the red shirts in this rally is the overthrow of the current government to be replaced by a proven dictatorial personality in the name of THAKSIN. In many countries, they would be in jail for treason just saying that. What do you expect the government to do? Bend over? Nobody is justifying the yellow shirt actions before the coup. However, that is the past. We are now living in the present.

The reds want to overthrow the current goverment?? Well what a suprise?

The elected goverment that Thaskin led was overthrown, pots and kettles anyone?

The elected goverment after the military left power were disbarred?

Will and wishes of the majority, ignored, anyone see the irony??

You either believe in democracy where the majority of the people elect who they want. Or you disregard the wishes of the people. Now that is a dictatorship.

We should all be careful what we wish for.........................

[Jingthing]

The reds want to overthrow the current goverment??

Yes they do and they are VIOLENT. Not OK. This has got to stop.

[way2muchcoffee]

100% disagree with using armed forces against any civilians, in this case THAI PEOPLE.

Thia Military vs. Thai people

is that what you want?

Not so different than the National Guard for riot control in the USA. It's not the Thai military versus the Thai people. It's the Thai military protecting the Thai people from violent insurgents who are also Thai.

[Ijustwannateach]

I would say there should be graduated steps against groups which became obvious trouble (of whatever political persuasion), not unlike penalties and warnings that might apply to members of an internet forum... ...

so with each incident involving violence, arms, rioting, etc., etc., the group would be notched up in terms of the response applied and their rights to assemble, gradually leading to a 'banning' in which public assembly of such a group would then be completely illegal.

The right to assemble presumes the maturity to behave.

[tmd5855]

The reds want to overthrow the current goverment??

Yes they do and they are VIOLENT. Not OK. This has got to stop.

Interesting move you just did there.............

Abridge my post to help your argument, whereas you have misquoted me??

"Methinks you doth protest too much"