Passport As Deposit?

[turbotojo]

One piece of advice that you should follow. Don't hand it over! No amount of holiday fun is worth anything going wrong in the 3rd world without your passport. The cons way out weigh the pros of a sailing holiday. Rent or buy a boat at home and sail there, you'd be better off. I don't spend that much time in Thailand and don't rent anything there for a reason but I have had my fair share of dramas and I fore go anything that will cause unpleasantness. Behind the smiles there always lurks a cunning plan to strip the farang of everything they got. These people don't have much of a concept of what's right and wrong. They just car about the satang that will end up in their pocket to buy something to drink with.

[snuggzzz]

I know it's common practice with hiring motorbikes and the like, but i certainly wouldn't want to leave my passport with someone else. a. you're required to carry it while a tourist in thailand (although admittedly i rarely do) and b. you're not supposed to leave your passport with anyone else anyway; at least that's the case for a UK passport.

I don't know about now but back in 1998 20,000 baht was the going rate for a passport on khao sarn road

I agree with your A+B points. Apart from that most Governments consider passports to remain property of the government and that it's forbidden to give passports away to whomever.

I don't like it either and would never do it; what do you tell the Embassy once the guy/companies says they were robbed or it's lost ?

Tell them you don't do it; they can have a colourcopy but NO original passport.

LaoPo

There is indeed a living in having obtained a 'British Passport', if it is current, it can be used to process money orders and other crimes, plus altered ID; the Passport is then laundered, counterfeited and copies made so easily;

Keep it in your possession, give a copy to anyone that demands it.

[LaoPo]

Your passport, or your wife's passport for that matter, is not your property to hand over as a guarantee, secure a bond, stop you stealing a yacht, or whatever.

Furthermore, any business that does not take a credit card 'for security reason' means it is too cheap to invest in anything that safeguards their customers safety and security. That probably includes dodging the bullet on insurance. Buyer beware indeed!

Fully agree.

LaoPo

[cyb]

One piece of advice that you should follow. Don't hand it over! No amount of holiday fun is worth anything going wrong in the 3rd world without your passport. The cons way out weigh the pros of a sailing holiday. Rent or buy a boat at home and sail there, you'd be better off. I don't spend that much time in Thailand and don't rent anything there for a reason but I have had my fair share of dramas and I fore go anything that will cause unpleasantness. Behind the smiles there always lurks a cunning plan to strip the farang of everything they got. These people don't have much of a concept of what's right and wrong. They just car about the satang that will end up in their pocket to buy something to drink with.

What do you mean ? "behind every smile there always lurks a cunning plan to strip the farang of everything they got. These people don't have much concept of what's right and wrong"

You speak as though you mean all Thai people, That i find quite defamatory.

Edited August 29, 2009 by cyb

[Bukseeda]

Very common in the Thai rental business to overcharge for "damages". Extortion is often the real goal in some rental shops.

Even the Police will back up their extortionist practices.

Never leave the passport with anyone! Never.

Search for 'jet ski scam thailand' to see what these people are up too.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

There was an incident in chawenge Koh Samui, i think it was around the end of 2005

I witnessed it.

A guy had hired a motorbike from a travel agent, Gave his passport to the agent.

After traverling about 300 metres one of the tyres was flat, He took it back and complained. The travel agents would not give his passport back until he paid bh4000 for repair.

That was for a simple puncture, Now do you understand why you should not leave your passport?

Visit the website www.funsail.com and you will see that this isn't a typical backstreet motorbike rental. The guy is french and it is a legitimate company with a well established site and previous customers reviews. Thanks for all the help

It's entirely up to you. BUt just because the guy's french and his website looks good is no guarantee. What if his office got broken into and your passport was stolen. As I said before, there is a market for passport.

[Bukseeda]

One piece of advice that you should follow. Don't hand it over! No amount of holiday fun is worth anything going wrong in the 3rd world without your passport. The cons way out weigh the pros of a sailing holiday. Rent or buy a boat at home and sail there, you'd be better off. I don't spend that much time in Thailand and don't rent anything there for a reason but I have had my fair share of dramas and I fore go anything that will cause unpleasantness. Behind the smiles there always lurks a cunning plan to strip the farang of everything they got. These people don't have much of a concept of what's right and wrong. They just car about the satang that will end up in their pocket to buy something to drink with.

What do you mean ? "behind every smile there always lurks a cunning plan to strip the farang of everything they got. These people don't have much concept of what's right and wrong"

You speak as though you mean all Thai people, That i find quite defamatory.

I agree.

[plaaduk]

I know it's common practice with hiring motorbikes and the like, but i certainly wouldn't want to leave my passport with someone else. a. you're required to carry it while a tourist in thailand (although admittedly i rarely do) and b. you're not supposed to leave your passport with anyone else anyway; at least that's the case for a UK passport.

I don't know about now but back in 1998 20,000 baht was the going rate for a passport on khao sarn road

I agree with your A+B points. Apart from that most Governments consider passports to remain property of the government and that it's forbidden to give passports away to whomever.

I don't like it either and would never do it; what do you tell the Embassy once the guy/companies says they were robbed or it's lost ?

Tell them you don't do it; they can have a colourcopy but NO original passport.

LaoPo

There is indeed a living in having obtained a 'British Passport', if it is current, it can be used to process money orders and other crimes, plus altered ID; the Passport is then laundered, counterfeited and copies made so easily;

Keep it in your possession, give a copy to anyone that demands it.

Not only British Passport! That advice is good for all passports. Personel employed by hotels also ask for passports to hold as security. In a recent trip to Penang,Malaysia, I stopped by Haadyai and was asked to hand over my passport. I refused and offered to pay any deposit necessary in cash instead. I have been told that hotel personnel are poorly paid and they can get a good return selling the passport if they get hold of one and disappear!

[mysterybkk]

hmmm, interesting to read all the opinions here. 99% say dont leave the passport. i've never rented a boat, and i probably never will, but i am a regular at renting bikes. i've never been able to leave a photocopy. think about it, would you rent your car to somebody who just gives you a piece of paper claiming to be a copy his passport? there is such a thing as photoshop after all. and then they lose 40k if you happen to disappear with their bike and they are stuck with the bills.

to prevent any kind of extortion i always check the bike in the presence of the renter and ask to have all damages document on the contract. if i damage something on it, i'll have it repaired myself.

i'm sure somebody will tell me i'm playing with fire, and yes, i grant you, it's not exactly the smartest thing to do. however, you are just as likely to have your passport stolen from your hotel room/home or even after a few too many drinks on a night out. at least that way you will have a harder time catching them, since with the bike shop you at least have some sort of starting point.

just my opinion. going to be renting a bike again in a few weeks.

[prodriver]

hmmm, interesting to read all the opinions here. 99% say dont leave the passport. i've never rented a boat, and i probably never will, but i am a regular at renting bikes. i've never been able to leave a photocopy. think about it, would you rent your car to somebody who just gives you a piece of paper claiming to be a copy his passport? there is such a thing as photoshop after all. and then they lose 40k if you happen to disappear with their bike and they are stuck with the bills.

to prevent any kind of extortion i always check the bike in the presence of the renter and ask to have all damages document on the contract. if i damage something on it, i'll have it repaired myself.

i'm sure somebody will tell me i'm playing with fire, and yes, i grant you, it's not exactly the smartest thing to do. however, you are just as likely to have your passport stolen from your hotel room/home or even after a few too many drinks on a night out. at least that way you will have a harder time catching them, since with the bike shop you at least have some sort of starting point.

just my opinion. going to be renting a bike again in a few weeks.

My wife and I rented out motorbikes for two and a half years about 12 years ago in Kanchanaburi. Firstly, we would not rent bikes to Thais (ID cards can be easily replaced), only foreign tourists who would leave their passports as a guarantee (or they could leave a healthy cash deposit). I would always check that the TM card was in the passport too. I understood that they may not wish to leave their passport with me and would say that I respected their concerns but they could not rent a bike from me either without doing so.

Simple as that.

Without the security of having something that the person who was renting the bike had to come back for, if they had an accident and damaged the bike for instance, they could just dump it on the side of the road and never return to the shop. Copies of passports, student cards or even international driving licences (all things that were offered to me) didn't meet my requirements.

As said, this was 12 years ago. I don't know how rental shops operate these days....maybe they have methods that I didn't know about at the time.

[cdnvic]

Canadians are reminded not to leave their passport as collateral when renting motorcycles. All rental contracts should be read thoroughly to ensure that the motorcycle is correctly insured to cover damages and theft. Canadians should only rent from reputable companies, as some companies have been known to "steal" the motorcycle and claim for loss. Travellers whose passports are inaccessible or stolen as a result of misuse may be subject to investigation by Passport Canada and may receive limited passport services.

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/rep...g.asp?id=290000

[david96]

Your passport is the property of your government. You are not legally entitled to give to a third party an item that you do not own in your own right.

Never surrender your passport to any individual or entity who is not legally entitled to hold it.

You passport is your ID.

Never use a passport as collateral or security for a debt.

For administrative reasons or record keeping a photocopy is all that is required.

A legal entity such as Immigration, an Embassy or a Consulate is entitled to hold your passport for the insertion of entry and exit stamps and extension of visas, or the issuing of visas in the case of Embassies or Consulates. You do not leave an Embassy or Consulate without your passport.

You are responsible for your passport, keep it in a safe place when not in use.

If hiring equipment a security deposit may be asked for in cash (and a receipt must be issued)

A security deposit can be made by a valid credit card.

Make sure who pays the insurance and you know the terms of the policy.

Note those words "surrender" and "legally", eg, a legal entity for the purposes of holding you passport in Thailand are Immigration and Foreign Embassies and Consulates.

If you are asked to surrender your passport for collateral for a debt ( eg hire of equipment)

just state that your government does not permit it. and to comply with Thai Immigration regulations you must be in possession of your passport at all times.

And remember, "buyer beware" at all times when in Thailand.

Edited August 30, 2009 by david96

[Daewoo]

I understood that they may not wish to leave their passport with me and would say that I respected their concerns but they could not rent a bike from me either without doing so.

And if you take all of the dodgy activities out of it, that is the crux of the arguement isn't it???

If I was renting out something of considerable value, and without the legal resources of a big hire company (like Hertz), I would want something that made the buyer committed to making good on any damages...

Of course that all goes tits up when the agent uses it as blackmail to pay for ficticous damages, but I guess that is where you could choose to make a legal issue of it if you wanted, without that leverage, you could just say 'I ain't paying' and leave the country, and the agent has no way of getting paid his due...

I would have thought that a company with sufficient resources to own a few charter boats would have the resources to chase you overseas, but I guess this is easier for them... They do give you the option of putting up the full value of their excess, which is what I know many people do with motorbikes if they need their passport (crossing borders)...

I am surprised that no one on here has mentioned the requirement of all foreign nationals to carry their passport at all times when in The Kingdom... that to me is the real reason I wouldn't want to leave my passport... the opportunity for being nit up and scammed by The Authorities is to my mind far more dangerous than missues by the Agent...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[prodriver]

I understood that they may not wish to leave their passport with me and would say that I respected their concerns but they could not rent a bike from me either without doing so.

And if you take all of the dodgy activities out of it, that is the crux of the arguement isn't it???

If I was renting out something of considerable value, and without the legal resources of a big hire company (like Hertz), I would want something that made the buyer committed to making good on any damages...

Of course that all goes tits up when the agent uses it as blackmail to pay for ficticous damages, but I guess that is where you could choose to make a legal issue of it if you wanted, without that leverage, you could just say 'I ain't paying' and leave the country, and the agent has no way of getting paid his due...

I would have thought that a company with sufficient resources to own a few charter boats would have the resources to chase you overseas, but I guess this is easier for them... They do give you the option of putting up the full value of their excess, which is what I know many people do with motorbikes if they need their passport (crossing borders)...

I am surprised that no one on here has mentioned the requirement of all foreign nationals to carry their passport at all times when in The Kingdom... that to me is the real reason I wouldn't want to leave my passport... the opportunity for being nit up and scammed by The Authorities is to my mind far more dangerous than missues by the Agent...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Exactly right 'Daewoo'. And I never forced anybody to hand over their passport to rent one of my bikes. I always gave them the option to give me a cash deposit of $500 US or it's equivalent but most people that rented from me opted to leave their passport with me. That was up to them. Better for them to keep the copy of their passport in case they got stopped by the police and better for me to keep the real thing as far as I was concerned. I've read all the reports on this forum about not handing one's passport over to anybody and can't find fault with their arguments. Still, life in reality in many cases just doesn't work like that! Think what life would be like if all the laws on the statute books in Thailand were adhered to.....I think I'd go back to Europe to live

[topben]

Hi, I'll be in Thailand in March this next year and am looking into renting a sailboat. The only thing I'm concerned about is that the owner of the company says that he will hold my passport for the duration of the trip as a deposit. I will be sailing In Phuket bay and will be visiting some islands from the boat. I am worried about getting my identification checked while on these islands. Is this a common practice in Thailand? What are you suggestions? Thanks. The company is called Funsail. Search for Funsail Phuket to find their site.

Thanks

John

out of your world , your passport is your last identity. leave it with someone else, you're in for hel_l .

[citizen33]

Exactly right 'Daewoo'. And I never forced anybody to hand over their passport to rent one of my bikes. I always gave them the option to give me a cash deposit of $500 US or it's equivalent but most people that rented from me opted to leave their passport with me. That was up to them. Better for them to keep the copy of their passport in case they got stopped by the police and better for me to keep the real thing as far as I was concerned. I've read all the reports on this forum about not handing one's passport over to anybody and can't find fault with their arguments. Still, life in reality in many cases just doesn't work like that! Think what life would be like if all the laws on the statute books in Thailand were adhered to.....I think I'd go back to Europe to live

It is hard to admire a business model that requires people to break the law and put themselves at risk to rent from you. I'm afraid that I find the attempts of some to paint this as normal practice very unhelpful. It reminds me of the time when a fellow westerner interrupted my conversation with a car rental clerk to say that this requirement was usual. I persisted and got my way, but too many farang want to help turn something that is negotiable into something set in stone. I wouldn't use a tuppeny ha'penny enterprise that made passport deposit a requirement.

[clarkey]

I must be missing something...

Either a 50,000B cash deposit or a $150 passport.

Hmmmm.

[cyb]

I must be missing something...

Either a 50,000B cash deposit or a $150 passport.

Hmmmm.

What you are missing is, in reality you should carry your passport with you all the time a requirement under thai law.(not everyone does in fact very few)

So to be asked to leave your passport as deposit is wrong.

These people are asking you to break thai law, Even though they are aiding and abetting a crime it is you that will carry the can not them. Unless it is a farang business man (who should know better than to ask), Then maybe he will be proscecuted as well

[prodriver]

Exactly right 'Daewoo'. And I never forced anybody to hand over their passport to rent one of my bikes. I always gave them the option to give me a cash deposit of $500 US or it's equivalent but most people that rented from me opted to leave their passport with me. That was up to them. Better for them to keep the copy of their passport in case they got stopped by the police and better for me to keep the real thing as far as I was concerned. I've read all the reports on this forum about not handing one's passport over to anybody and can't find fault with their arguments. Still, life in reality in many cases just doesn't work like that! Think what life would be like if all the laws on the statute books in Thailand were adhered to.....I think I'd go back to Europe to live

It is hard to admire a business model that requires people to break the law and put themselves at risk to rent from you. I'm afraid that I find the attempts of some to paint this as normal practice very unhelpful. It reminds me of the time when a fellow westerner interrupted my conversation with a car rental clerk to say that this requirement was usual. I persisted and got my way, but too many farang want to help turn something that is negotiable into something set in stone. I wouldn't use a tuppeny ha'penny enterprise that made passport deposit a requirement.

I suppose I was a 'tuppeny ha'penny enterprise' as I had less than 10 motorbikes for rent. Just telling it as it is....or was.

Most, if not all, the small businesses serving tourists at the holiday destinations here in Thailand would probably fall under your category of 'tuppeny ha'penny enterprises'.

Attempts to paint this (leaving a passport as a deposit) as normal practice may be unhelpful but it is an illustration of what goes on in the real world.

[JUDAS]

I must be missing something...

Either a 50,000B cash deposit or a $150 passport.

Hmmmm.

What you are missing is, in reality you should carry your passport with you all the time a requirement under thai law.(not everyone does in fact very few)

So to be asked to leave your passport as deposit is wrong.

These people are asking you to break thai law, Even though they are aiding and abetting a crime it is you that will carry the can not them. Unless it is a farang business man (who should know better than to ask), Then maybe he will be proscecuted as well

After ten years of living in Thailand I've yet to see an actual copy of the law that states a foreigner is required to carry his/her passport. I'm not disagreeing that it's a requirement but wondering if you could point me in the direction of your information?

[NanLaew]

^ It was posted on another long-winded thread about carrying your passport at all times on the Pattaya forum a fair few months back. It's written in Thai of course so there was the predictable few who decided that because they can't read the language, that it wasn't proof, etc., etc. and they were going to ignore the law.

It exists. End of. Whether one chooses to adhere to the law... up to you.

[david96]

From the Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade - Australia -Advice for Thailand

"Foreigners are required to carry identification at all times."

They do not specifically state that this ID must be your passport.

The Thai requirement is in the Immigration Regulations but it is not advertised on TM6 cards or at points of entry into Thailand, so the majority of visitors do not know about it.

You are required to keep your passport in a safe place at all times, a safe place is on your person when travelling.

A photo ID or a photocopy of you passport will generally comply. Of course you must produce your passport

if you are encashing a TC checking into a hotel etc.

Thais ask for "passport" as this is the only document they know outside of "ID card"

Remember in Australia/ NZ/UK we can use a number of documents for ID purposes.eg an ATM card, it has your name on it.

[cyb]

^ It was posted on another long-winded thread about carrying your passport at all times on the Pattaya forum a fair few months back. It's written in Thai of course so there was the predictable few who decided that because they can't read the language, that it wasn't proof, etc., etc. and they were going to ignore the law.

It exists. End of. Whether one chooses to adhere to the law... up to you.

Can you or anyone give a link to that thread?. If it was in thai and not translated then i would be happy to translate and post here.

[david96]

^ It was posted on another long-winded thread about carrying your passport at all times on the Pattaya forum a fair few months back. It's written in Thai of course so there was the predictable few who decided that because they can't read the language, that it wasn't proof, etc., etc. and they were going to ignore the law.

It exists. End of. Whether one chooses to adhere to the law... up to you.

Can you or anyone give a link to that thread?. If it was in thai and not translated then i would be happy to translate and post here.

It should be in the Immigration Act BE 2522. I have looked in the ENG translation but can not find it, should be around section 37/38 if it does actually exist.

Maybe it is not in the Immigration Act, it may just be presumed to exist as Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards at all times. Would be interesting to see if anyone can find the requirement.

[Eff1n2ret]

Just returning to the original query regarding the company Funsail's requirement for a 50,000baht deposit or the hirer's passport, for comparison I looked up the booking conditions of Sunsail Thailand, who are of course part of a large international group, and their booking form emanates from Australia. There is no mention of depositing a passport, they take a blank credit card impression to cover loss or damage under the excess on the insurance policy - which is what you'd expect from a reputable commercial company, and is also the practice with the car rental company I deal with in Thailand.

So Funsail operate under the local Ways and Means Act, and it's purely a risk assessment whether any of their customers want to hand over their passports. I wouldn't.

I'd be interested to hear from the OP when/if he's completed his charter with them.

[NanLaew]

^ It was posted on another long-winded thread about carrying your passport at all times on the Pattaya forum a fair few months back. It's written in Thai of course so there was the predictable few who decided that because they can't read the language, that it wasn't proof, etc., etc. and they were going to ignore the law.

It exists. End of. Whether one chooses to adhere to the law... up to you.

Can you or anyone give a link to that thread?. If it was in thai and not translated then i would be happy to translate and post here.

It should be in the Immigration Act BE 2522. I have looked in the ENG translation but can not find it, should be around section 37/38 if it does actually exist.

Maybe it is not in the Immigration Act, it may just be presumed to exist as Thais are supposed to carry their ID cards at all times. Would be interesting to see if anyone can find the requirement.

You can start a new thread asking for this information and then maybe the Mods will make it a 'sticky' so no more debates.

Seems like the OP has got all the help he needs. However, if a 50,000 baht deposit on a credit card is too difficult, maybe they don't have any business chartering a yacht in these waters in the first place.