Rally Countdown: Police Chief Meets Key Red Shirt Leaders

[george]

Rally Countdown: Police chief meets key Red Shirt leaders

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban on Friday said talks between national police chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan and key leaders of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) regarding the group's mass rally this weekend has made a progress at a "certain level".

The deputy premier said he had assigned Gen Patcharawat to discuss with the so-called Red Shirt key leaders to prevent any possible clash during the movement’s demonstration this weekend.

The move came as the government chose to enforce the stringent Internal Security Act (ISA) from Saturday to Monday in Bangkok's Dusit district, the area where the UDD will demonstrate.

Mr Suthep said the top United Front leaders listened to the police chief and that they understood that the government must maintain law and order during the group's rally.

"The Red Shirt leaders have not set conditions," Mr Suthep said. "The talks are to create mutual understanding and confidence regarding (the limits of) what they can do during the ISA enforcement."

The deputy premier added that military Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC) officers will meet later Friday to discuss how to handle the demonstrators within the legal framework.

Mr Suthep also insisted that rally can be carried out under the law but warned that the government will apply all measures to stop any chaos.

Permanent-Secretary for Interior Wichai Srikwan, meanwhile, said the Interior Minister Chavarat Charnveerakul has instructed provincial officials to create better understanding with Red Shirt activists who plan to join the group's mass rally in the capital.

Mr Wichai said the order is aimed at informing the UDD protesters about the enforcement of ISA, not meaning to obstruct them from joining the rally in Bangkok.

"Recently we have been informed from 20 provinces, mostly in the northeastern region, that local residents are travelling to Bangkok," he said.

An opinion survey conducted among a random sample of 1,027 Bangkok residents by the Research Institute of Bangkok University, the Bangkok Poll, on Friday showed that two in five Bangkokians -- nearly 38 per cent of the respondents -- believe that the government and security-concerned agencies will be able to control the situation.

Almost one-third, however, 31.7 per cent, said the situation will go out of control.

More significantly nearly twice as many respondents feel that the overall impact of using the heavy-duty security measures will have a negative impact on the overall situation.

That is to say, while only 21.7 per cent believe that using the ISA the enforce public order will give a positive result, and nearly twice as many -- 37.8 per cent – say that using the ISA will make the situation worse.

The remaining 40 per cent – two out of five respondents -- are uncertain about the usefulness of applying the Internal Security Act in advance.

In other developments, the Bangkok-based Criminal Court on Friday sentenced Red Shirt activist Daranee Charncherngsilpakul, alias Da Torpido, to an 18-year jail term on a lese majeste charge.

Ms Daranee was charged for insulting the monarchy during a speech delivered from the Red Shirt's rally stage in June 2008.

-- TNA 2009-08-28

[sunholidaysun1]

If this demonstration turns out to be - quiet , peaceful , law abiding, unarmed and within the law it will be a huge disappointment

In all seriousness, I hope there are no AK-47's, hand guns, grenades, C4 or any other WMD (Weapons of Mass Demonstration)

Peace and harmony to all .

[Moonrakers]

I reckon it will all just fall flat, like the petition thing did.

[TAWP]

In all seriousness, I hope there are no AK-47's, hand guns, grenades, C4 or any other WMD (Weapons of Mass Demonstration)

That would be, Thaksins wallet?

[wrecker]

People in Izan and the North are very angry. This rich boys government is underestimating the feelings of the people in an incredible way. If I was a red shirt leader I would change the venue unannounced to the police within the blink of an eye. An SMS is sent quickly and everybody will follow.

[wrecker]

The petition did not fell flat. This government wipes its behind with the rights and wishes of the people. While claiming that they had 5 million signatures (24 hours before it were less than a million) they refused to send the 4 million signatures of the people to the institutions involved. As soon as the wallets of the people in this government has been filled with the money of the gigantic loan that they will take out. they will run, leaving the mess again to Thaksin. They are making it very easy for Thaksin or his nominees to win any upcoming election with two fingers in the nose. Poor people are poor, being poor does not mean being stupid.

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. Still all those wise noses who need to take up a teaching job of 500 US$ or less a month think they know better than the poor. Lots of foreigners are trapped in in the illusion that they are better educated, that they are smarter and that therefore their opinion is worth more than those of the rural people. Big mistake, the same big mistake the elite is making. There are numerous examples of other countries were the table changed quickly and unexpectedly.

[Samuian]

People in Izan and the North are very angry. This rich boys government is underestimating the feelings of the people in an incredible way. If I was a red shirt leader I would change the venue unannounced to the police within the blink of an eye. An SMS is sent quickly and everybody will follow.

Exactly who are "The people of Izan and the north" -any numbers maybe?

Does the red shirt allaince now represent anyone and all -

why aren't there ever any people from the south or delegation

from Bangkok, Puket, Samui, Krabi, PhiPhi, Chonburi, Trang, Trat, Hat Yai mentioned?

Are these the places where all the "Elites" are "hiding"?

Why is it most from Shin.Clans Stronghold of Chiang Mai and from "Isaan"

is it maybe there are plenty of people easily employed for such actions...?

[TAWP]

The petition did not fell flat. This government wipes its behind with the rights and wishes of the people. While claiming that they had 5 million signatures (24 hours before it were less than a million) they refused to send the 4 million signatures of the people to the institutions involved. As soon as the wallets of the people in this government has been filled with the money of the gigantic loan that they will take out. they will run, leaving the mess again to Thaksin. They are making it very easy for Thaksin or his nominees to win any upcoming election with two fingers in the nose. Poor people are poor, being poor does not mean being stupid.

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. Still all those wise noses who need to take up a teaching job of 500 US$ or less a month think they know better than the poor. Lots of foreigners are trapped in in the illusion that they are better educated, that they are smarter and that therefore their opinion is worth more than those of the rural people. Big mistake, the same big mistake the elite is making. There are numerous examples of other countries were the table changed quickly and unexpectedly.

Yes, yes, we know facts and accuracy isn't your friend, but any jump from 1 million to 5 million in a day is a pipe-dream and a lie. As was the number 10 million that one red leader said. They themselves eventually settled with the number 3.5 million on the day of delivery...

[George4]

People in Izan and the North are very angry. This rich boys government is underestimating the feelings of the people in an incredible way. If I was a red shirt leader I would change the venue unannounced to the police within the blink of an eye. An SMS is sent quickly and everybody will follow.

Why on earth would anyone wishing to have a peacful demonstation kick off by deceiving the police. Without any police supervision these protest could turn into a riot in the bat of an eye.

Thailand took a hard enough boot in the goolies when they disrupted the Thai peoples Songran while the world watched.

Can you imagine what affect a repeat of that nonsense would have on the tourist trade and how ,any people would be out of a job if it gets any worse.

Would be a dam_n site less money finding it's way bak to Issan as there is at the moment.

The rich boy paid dumb and dumber to cause havock here already and the poor suckers fell for it.

[321niti123]

People in Izan and the North are very angry. This rich boys government is underestimating the feelings of the people in an incredible way. If I was a red shirt leader I would change the venue unannounced to the police within the blink of an eye. An SMS is sent quickly and everybody will follow.

They can't that would be an unschedule protest making it unlawful---from what i know---because the police could not monitor it and could turn into a riot.

As you can see even with police and soldiers people died, so without police and soldiers would put bangkok in a living hel_l.

One more thing, I predict that it would rain the day of the rally. It rains hard almost everytime there's a red shirt rally, and its raining every day lately

[slaninaj]

Well I hope this dont blow up into something bad like last april. I be landing in BKK Sunday Night. Was there last april also when it got out of control.

My wife is not a Red or Yellow shirt. Just a common thai lady that is getting sick and tired of both side bring down thailand.

[animatic]

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. Still all those wise noses who need to take up a teaching job of 500 US$ or less a month think they know better than the poor. Lots of foreigners are trapped in in the illusion that they are better educated, that they are smarter and that therefore their opinion is worth more than those of the rural people. Big mistake, the same big mistake the elite is making. There are numerous examples of other countries were the table changed quickly and unexpectedly.

Well, you have managed to flame most of TVF in one swoop.

Must make you feel proud!

Sorry my wife was never in entertainment, in fact I can't think

of any of my friends who's ladies are described that way.

I do know one TEFL english teacher, he doesn't fit your description.

In spite of many noting they are married, live in rural areas,

have Issan friends and neighbors, and are NOT ESL teachers,

you still slap all and sundry at once. Way to win an argument.

People who have more experience in a variety of places and cultures

are in many ways better prepared to observe comparatively,

than those not having the option of travel.

Those who really travel are also more likely to be exposed to poorer people.

And so MORE accepting of people's needs and differences.

Many traveling foreigners are also continually self educating through life

and compared to those who reach a point and then just coast, stay home

and not see the wider world. Yes they very well can make more valuable

contributions to a discussion based on comparative experiences.

If you HAVE seen things that work well,

and see the same problem not getting solved;

Should you:

a ) Walk away and say nothing...

Because no one who's poor wants their lot improved by applying outside knowledge.

Sell that canard in sub-Saharan Africa....

b ) lend a hand in some fashion to improve your neighbors lot.

Either with aid, ideas or labor, or just taking one family and improving their lot.

Even if that family happens to be your wife's extended clan.

Most TVF members could likely make MUCH, MUCH more money in other places,

but throw their lot in with Thailand...

But I guess that can only be about the bar girls in your estimation,

so you slap them who aren't hardcore red lovers. So sad.

Swapping one elite for another hungrier one is rarely a good solution.

Which sums up what I see as the Thais political problem.

Revolutions typically hurt the poor more than the rich,

who take off when things go way bad. Eventually the rich comeback,

and so do jobs and commerce that creates jobs...

jobs lost from the revolutions of course.

But in between the poor suffer more.

Why not try for a sustainable method of change.

Rather than lash out personally at people with ideas you don't like.

[piewarmer]

One day this wonderful country will mature and make political change at the polling booth.

If you fail, wait for the next election and go door knocking.

[Rumfoord]

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. ...

Well, you have managed to flame most of TVF in one swoop.

Must make you feel proud!

...

are here so much 'yellow shirts'=PAD in the forum? i doubt that.  are you a yellow shirt supporter?

and why care.what the revolutionary fighter for the poor predict on big changes quickly and unexpectedly.

your story about all the brain rocket scientist that choose a rural contryside lifestyle vs. could make MUCH; MUCH more money elsewhere doesnt sound so convincing too.

anyway.

why would it turned into a riot if there weren't a big security and lot's of restrictions. before songkran the have been weeks of mass gatherings by the red, went almost unnoticed, without any problems.

but such confrontation is asking for escalations.

i think there is also not a real law or concept that would handle such or any demonstrations. like a requirement to notify the municipal authorities a couple of days or weeks beforehand and then maybe developed a route and time schedule across some streets for a protest march together with the authorities. or close off half or the entire road where your protestors are gathering in front of some office building. police can monitor your demonstration, provide security, help you, give logistic support or just keep you under control. depends... meanwhile traffic can be redirected on other streets and so on and so on.

like you still have your right to assembly and protest in public places, but certain areas of town will always be off limit and you have to march a certain route and everything is planned.

not sure if such law exist in bangkok. the yellow and the red protest seems to have been legal to a certain point under some 'Right to Protest' but there wasn't much coordination and some chaos was created that could have been avoided with better planning. there isn't much law that prevents uncontrolled mass gatherings and the only instruments the authorities have at hand is something like the Internal Security Act and or if your are using a truck with a sound system they can charge you with using electrically amplified loud speakers without permission and that would give the authorities some rights to intercept you. but i guess that is just some workaround, the law about to need a permission for using loudspeaker was more designed to prevent too much noise pollution and keep advertising pick-ups under control. Noise pollution, yes- such law exist and i was eye and ear witness of some small scale open air parties form bangkok universities that got shut down in the evening because of noise.

all that scary talks about possible riots and clashes between different groups (who?) could be become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Trouble]

The petition did not fell flat. This government wipes its behind with the rights and wishes of the people. While claiming that they had 5 million signatures (24 hours before it were less than a million) they refused to send the 4 million signatures of the people to the institutions involved. As soon as the wallets of the people in this government has been filled with the money of the gigantic loan that they will take out. they will run, leaving the mess again to Thaksin. They are making it very easy for Thaksin or his nominees to win any upcoming election with two fingers in the nose. Poor people are poor, being poor does not mean being stupid.

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. Still all those wise noses who need to take up a teaching job of 500 US$ or less a month think they know better than the poor. Lots of foreigners are trapped in in the illusion that they are better educated, that they are smarter and that therefore their opinion is worth more than those of the rural people. Big mistake, the same big mistake the elite is making. There are numerous examples of other countries were the table changed quickly and unexpectedly.

I second these comments. The teapot will boil over one of these days IF the current civilian government and its backers in the military don't see the disenfranchisement occurring around the country.

[johnwills]

Talking to some of the locals here I was quite shocked when they said that they want violence even civil war. It seems they see this as the only way that things will change, this is obviously quite scary. When I asked what they actually want, many said they want Mr T back in power, however, when I tried to get them to give me reasons for this, their answers where mainly limited to he helps the poor, although some did say he ran the country better.

I do have symphony for the poor people here but I cannot see how running around killing your fellow country men would improve things, but I couldn't get that across to them. The more educated people I talked to agree violence is not the answer, but unfortunately they appear to be in the minority. Well lets hope we don't go down the civil war route, only time will tell.

[Publicus]

The petition did not fell flat. This government wipes its behind with the rights and wishes of the people. While claiming that they had 5 million signatures (24 hours before it were less than a million) they refused to send the 4 million signatures of the people to the institutions involved. As soon as the wallets of the people in this government has been filled with the money of the gigantic loan that they will take out. they will run, leaving the mess again to Thaksin. They are making it very easy for Thaksin or his nominees to win any upcoming election with two fingers in the nose. Poor people are poor, being poor does not mean being stupid.

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. Still all those wise noses who need to take up a teaching job of 500 US$ or less a month think they know better than the poor. Lots of foreigners are trapped in in the illusion that they are better educated, that they are smarter and that therefore their opinion is worth more than those of the rural people. Big mistake, the same big mistake the elite is making. There are numerous examples of other countries were the table changed quickly and unexpectedly.

I second these comments. The teapot will boil over one of these days IF the current civilian government and its backers in the military don't see the disenfranchisement occurring around the country.

If the rural poor in Thailand (or anywhere in the world) are so wise and intellectually developed, then why do they spend their lives living on less than USD$2 a day whilst sitting on their portch staring at the air? Fifty percent of Thais live on this measly amount. And yes they can thank the elites for that but they also can thank their own civilization and its history, traditions and culture.

Thaksin also knows it's true that the rural agrarian poor aren't stupid. Give 'em Bt30 to vote for you and they'll go through hel_l and high water to do it. The rural poor are sharp enuff to know how to make a buck and Thaksin knows it. Some call this knowhow local wisdom.

Meanwhile we who are effite intellectual snobs continue to feel superior in our classroms.

Wake up: The urban-rural divide is a well known fact of history. At least in the West we've progressed substantially towards resolving and reducing it to the point of having made it a matter for the history books.

And yes, I know this post is exactly what you and a few others are referencing. So let me turn the table on you.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Publicus

[paulnewman]

Many nations are experiencing destabilization.

This is occurring in the context of the collapse of the world's current (U.S.) dollar-based monetary financial system. This is the core--or, if you prefer--this points to the core--of the problem.

As all that we depend on, and so often take for granted, slips toward chaos, people react to the distressing conditions. Not only is there a high potential for violence, but there are (what shall we call them?... people, forces, institutions, amorphous shifting coalitions...) who think and plan strategically toward the end that they shall survive and continue to exert control. Violence is one of their tools. To them, the more violence the better, the more chaos -- read UNGOVERNABILITY, the better. They are transnational and seek the destruction of nation states, because nation states potentially can regulate their looting of the world's resources, both material and human.

We don't learn of this in school or in the press or the media. We resist this perspective and understanding because we have been conditioned to do so. Even if we can read some sense in words such as I speak now, and we wish to examine more deeply some issues or ideas involved, we can easily become lost in an incredible overload of opinions and trains of thought.

Number two: I offer you, imho, the most sensible overview of our situation today, its roots, and the path to recovery.

www.larouchepac.com - bookmark it.

Don't allow yourself to be led, not by me, or the website I suggest, or by any comment that grabs you for a moment.

Stand for non-violence. Lean to reason and compassion.

[dale8]

Hello, it looks like the Thai police and other government agencies are going to dictate the terms of any meeting so they will not negotiate a solution again. I hope no one gets hurt or killed at this meeting, and I would like to see people take their opinions about the Thai government with them when they vote in the next elections.

[Maiya]

The persistence with which posters here so simplistically describe these opposing political forces expose their lack of knowledge. They are encouraged in this through the agenized domestic English language Media. That simplistic descriptor focuses exclusively on referencing them by their affinity clothing colors.

The rally involves people who have adopted the affinity color of red. But what the H--- do Red Shirts have to do with Politics. On the same level, what the H---- do yellow shirts have to do with politics. Your English media appreciates your focus on these colors however, as it effectively hides the political issues at play. So again, you Farangs "sing to their tune".

This has to do with "Democracy" folks. Hate to break this to you and to tax your brain.

#1 - The current elite powers structure, the PAD/old politics people favor removing electoral powers from large swaths of Thai society. They want to institute an appointive system - 70% appointed from within their enlightened ranks, with a sop of 30% voting rights to those deluded people who want such a thing.

#2 - The rally people of this weekend are agitating to preserve the one-person-one-vote electoral system by challenging the #1's above, and what they stand for.

Exercise some independent thinking you Farangs, and break out of the Domestic media trap where they have you focussed on ridiculous clothing colors as a way of meeting their agenda objectives to obfuscate the battle for democracy in Thailand.

So get off this shallow, simplistic focus on inconsequential affinity colors, and start identifying these forces for what they are.

Also, don't let yourself again be influenced by the Thaksin haters on this board as a way of diverting your attention away from the above two points.

This post was inspired by a confused inquiry from a recently arrived Farang, who simply wondered what this clothing color thing was all about. It is exactly this type of confusion that the people from #1 wish to perpetuate here and internationally, and you Farangs are eager to accommodate them.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Maiya

[mca]

Thaksin also knows it's true that the rural agrarian poor aren't stupid. Give 'em Bt30 to vote for you and they'll go through hel_l and high water to do it. The rural poor are sharp enuff to know how to make a buck and Thaksin knows it.

There seems to be a train of thought on this forum that only Thaksin was capable of buying votes.

[Mario2008]

Let's stay on topic here. That is not vote buying.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The persistence with which posters here so simplistically describe these opposing political forces expose their lack of knowledge. They are encouraged in this through the agenized domestic English language Media. That simplistic descriptor focuses exclusively on referencing them by their affinity clothing colors.

The rally involves people who have adopted the affinity color of red. But what the H--- do Red Shirts have to do with Politics. On the same level, what the H---- do yellow shirts have to do with politics. Your English media appreciates your focus on these colors however, as it effectively hides the political issues at play. So again, you Farangs "sing to their tune".

This has to do with "Democracy" folks. Hate to break this to you and to tax your brain.

#1 - The current elite powers structure, the PAD/old politics people favor removing electoral powers from large swaths of Thai society. They want to institute an appointive system - 70% appointed from within their enlightened ranks, with a sop of 30% voting rights to those deluded people who want such a thing.

#2 - The rally people of this weekend are agitating to preserve the one-person-one-vote electoral system by challenging the #1's above, and what they stand for.

Exercise some independent thinking you Farangs, and break out of the Domestic media trap where they have you focussed on ridiculous clothing colors as a way of meeting their agenda objectives to obfuscate the battle for democracy in Thailand.

So get off this shallow, simplistic focus on inconsequential affinity colors, and start identifying these forces for what they are.

Also, don't let yourself again be influenced by the Thaksin haters on this board as a way of diverting your attention away from the above two points.

This post was inspired by a confused inquiry from a recently arrived Farang, who simply wondered what this clothing color thing was all about. It is exactly this type of confusion that the people from #1 wish to perpetuate here and internationally, and you Farangs are eager to accommodate them.

I've got a bit of a feeling you might be a former member and a returnee Thaksinite.

[animatic]

All the people on this forum in the camp of the yellow shirts are probably having a girl friend from the entertainment business. ...

Well, you have managed to flame most of TVF in one swoop.

Must make you feel proud!

...

are here so much 'yellow shirts'=PAD in the forum? i doubt that. are you a yellow shirt supporter?

and why care.what the revolutionary fighter for the poor predict on big changes quickly and unexpectedly.

your story about all the brain rocket scientist that choose a rural contryside lifestyle vs. could make MUCH; MUCH more money elsewhere doesnt sound so convincing too.

anyway.

why would it turned into a riot if there weren't a big security and lot's of restrictions. before songkran the have been weeks of mass gatherings by the red, went almost unnoticed, without any problems.

but such confrontation is asking for escalations.

i think there is also not a real law or concept that would handle such or any demonstrations. like a requirement to notify the municipal authorities a couple of days or weeks beforehand and then maybe developed a route and time schedule across some streets for a protest march together with the authorities. or close off half or the entire road where your protestors are gathering in front of some office building. police can monitor your demonstration, provide security, help you, give logistic support or just keep you under control. depends... meanwhile traffic can be redirected on other streets and so on and so on.

like you still have your right to assembly and protest in public places, but certain areas of town will always be off limit and you have to march a certain route and everything is planned.

not sure if such law exist in bangkok. the yellow and the red protest seems to have been legal to a certain point under some 'Right to Protest' but there wasn't much coordination and some chaos was created that could have been avoided with better planning. there isn't much law that prevents uncontrolled mass gatherings and the only instruments the authorities have at hand is something like the Internal Security Act and or if your are using a truck with a sound system they can charge you with using electrically amplified loud speakers without permission and that would give the authorities some rights to intercept you. but i guess that is just some workaround, the law about to need a permission for using loudspeaker was more designed to prevent too much noise pollution and keep advertising pick-ups under control. Noise pollution, yes- such law exist and i was eye and ear witness of some small scale open air parties form bangkok universities that got shut down in the evening because of noise.

all that scary talks about possible riots and clashes between different groups (who?) could be become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The majority of vocal reds here, clearly and repeatedly lump all those NOT with THEM as in the yellow camp.

Can't have it both ways.

Most of the people I know all could, and often do, make more dosh off Thailand's shores. Fact not hyperbole.

But they like it here in spite of the smaller opportunities and occasional brickbat from fools on barstools.

Wages ARE higher out side of here, and less issues and payments just to stay. Who cares if YOU are convinced of that.

The internal security act dosen't ensure that forces will be there to cause a riot as you imply incorrectly.

It just means thay can be utilized QUICKLY to quell a riot. Since some Red gathers have been peaceful,

and too many others have spun out of control, there is ample precedent for having riot control forces close and ready.

The back story of Thaksin's money on the block and the recent rumblings and attempts at smears also parallel the past times

were reds went amok in public. There' moves are to ineptly telegraphed for this to be a surprise.

The surprise, sadly, will be if the DON'T run amok.

[Maiya]

The persistence with which posters here so simplistically describe these opposing political forces expose their lack of knowledge. They are encouraged in this through the agenized domestic English language Media. That simplistic descriptor focuses exclusively on referencing them by their affinity clothing colors.

The rally involves people who have adopted the affinity color of red. But what the H--- do Red Shirts have to do with Politics. On the same level, what the H---- do yellow shirts have to do with politics. Your English media appreciates your focus on these colors however, as it effectively hides the political issues at play. So again, you Farangs "sing to their tune".

This has to do with "Democracy" folks. Hate to break this to you and to tax your brain.

#1 - The current elite powers structure, the PAD/old politics people favor removing electoral powers from large swaths of Thai society. They want to institute an appointive system - 70% appointed from within their enlightened ranks, with a sop of 30% voting rights to those deluded people who want such a thing.

#2 - The rally people of this weekend are agitating to preserve the one-person-one-vote electoral system by challenging the #1's above, and what they stand for.

Exercise some independent thinking you Farangs, and break out of the Domestic media trap where they have you focussed on ridiculous clothing colors as a way of meeting their agenda objectives to obfuscate the battle for democracy in Thailand.

So get off this shallow, simplistic focus on inconsequential affinity colors, and start identifying these forces for what they are.

Also, don't let yourself again be influenced by the Thaksin haters on this board as a way of diverting your attention away from the above two points.

This post was inspired by a confused inquiry from a recently arrived Farang, who simply wondered what this clothing color thing was all about. It is exactly this type of confusion that the people from #1 wish to perpetuate here and internationally, and you Farangs are eager to accommodate them.

I've got a bit of a feeling you might be a former member and a returnee Thaksinite.

I like that photo (or whatever ya call it) on your posts, of the penguin whacking another penguin.

How can one put up something like that to accompany one's posts?

[hammered]

Basically with divisions between urban and rural centers, historical poor distribution of wealth, regional divisions, economic problems and the power elite so divided you have a recipe for disaster. It may just be a matte rof time. Put all the nasty games of stirring hatred in there and gets right explosive. Then add in that the two sides are actually faction based and factions can change their spots or be "convinced" or bought to swop sides and all the distrust that goes with that and things get even more likely to go in unplanned directions.

It is a dangerous time for Thailand.

[george]

Sunday Redshirt Rally Postponed

Read more:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sunday-Redsh...ed-t293555.html

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The persistence with which posters here so simplistically describe these opposing political forces expose their lack of knowledge. They are encouraged in this through the agenized domestic English language Media. That simplistic descriptor focuses exclusively on referencing them by their affinity clothing colors.

The rally involves people who have adopted the affinity color of red. But what the H--- do Red Shirts have to do with Politics. On the same level, what the H---- do yellow shirts have to do with politics. Your English media appreciates your focus on these colors however, as it effectively hides the political issues at play. So again, you Farangs "sing to their tune".

This has to do with "Democracy" folks. Hate to break this to you and to tax your brain.

#1 - The current elite powers structure, the PAD/old politics people favor removing electoral powers from large swaths of Thai society. They want to institute an appointive system - 70% appointed from within their enlightened ranks, with a sop of 30% voting rights to those deluded people who want such a thing.

#2 - The rally people of this weekend are agitating to preserve the one-person-one-vote electoral system by challenging the #1's above, and what they stand for.

Exercise some independent thinking you Farangs, and break out of the Domestic media trap where they have you focussed on ridiculous clothing colors as a way of meeting their agenda objectives to obfuscate the battle for democracy in Thailand.

So get off this shallow, simplistic focus on inconsequential affinity colors, and start identifying these forces for what they are.

Also, don't let yourself again be influenced by the Thaksin haters on this board as a way of diverting your attention away from the above two points.

This post was inspired by a confused inquiry from a recently arrived Farang, who simply wondered what this clothing color thing was all about. It is exactly this type of confusion that the people from #1 wish to perpetuate here and internationally, and you Farangs are eager to accommodate them.

I've got a bit of a feeling you might be a former member and a returnee Thaksinite.

I like that photo (or whatever ya call it) on your posts, of the penguin whacking another penguin.

How can one put up something like that to accompany one's posts?

It wasn't too difficult to do at all. I see you didn't bother with one this time.