Vote Rigging Rampant In Local Polling: Ec

[webfact]

Vote rigging rampant in local polling: EC

By The Nation

Published on September 7, 2009

The nationwide turnout for local elections yesterday reached a record high of about 70 per cent on rampant vote-buying, the Election Commission said yesterday.

"Voters were enthusiastic in casting their ballots regardless of the election fraud detected in several places like Udon Thani, Buri Ram and Chiang Rai," EC secretary-general Suthiphon Taveechaiyagarn said.

Elections were held for 2,939 tambon throughout 74 provinces.

In Nakhon Ratchasima, officials were investigating some cases where, on the eve of balloting, canvassers were said to have paid Bt100-Bt500 per vote, he said.

Polling station officials said many voters were confused about the two ballots - one for the president of the tambon administration organisation and the other for the TAO's members.

In Buri Ram, a voter was detained for tearing up the ballot after making a mistake in marking the number for a candidate.

Buri Ram election director Thawee Chunkoh said the balloting took place without a glitch although officials have yet to sort out the myriad complaints about vote buying.

In constituencies witnessing a tight race, the bribes reportedly soared to Bt2,000 per vote.

Some candidates handed out pre-paid telephone cards in lieu of bills.

In Trang, Ban Khlong Then police rounded up independent candidate Thawee Phuagphet on suspicion of buying votes.

Confronted by evidence seized from his home, including Bt39,300 in cash and a list of voters, Thawee admitted he was preparing to distribute the funds in order to sway votes.

In Ayutthaya, election officials were checking into about 20 complaints related to vote buying.

A loan shark testified that a candidate borrowed Bt500,000, probably for a war chest to lock up votes.

In Satun, about 60 inhabitants of an island could not travel to the polling station on another island due to stormy seas.

-- The Nation 2009/07/09

[Scott]

The problem is, they never seem to get the best gov't that money can buy.

[apetley]

I'm not sure how effective this 'vote buying' is.

My wife and her family have told me that in the past they have accepted money from more than one candidate and then voted for an entirely different one.

[Thai at Heart]

And fortunately the world keeps turning.

[toptuan]

Two Thai friends living in a rural village.

One friend, living in Ubon province, made 1,800 baht from vote-buyers.

The other, living near Khon Kaen, made 1,200 baht.

Multiple candidates gave them vote-money, and both Thai friends voted their own choice anyway.

Incidentally, the night before the election is called, "The night of howling dogs," named after the late-night visits of vote buyers who disturb the local watchdogs.

[animatic]

The dogs howl a lot in Thailand it seems, can't hardly sleep!

[LawnGnome]

Vote rigging rampant in local polling: EC

By The Nation

Published on September 7, 2009

The nationwide turnout for local elections yesterday reached a record high of about 70 per cent on rampant vote-buying, the Election Commission said yesterday.

"Voters were enthusiastic in casting their ballots regardless of the election fraud detected in several places like Udon Thani, Buri Ram and Chiang Rai," EC secretary-general Suthiphon Taveechaiyagarn said.

Elections were held for 2,939 tambon throughout 74 provinces.

In Nakhon Ratchasima, officials were investigating some cases where, on the eve of balloting, canvassers were said to have paid Bt100-Bt500 per vote, he said.

Polling station officials said many voters were confused about the two ballots - one for the president of the tambon administration organisation and the other for the TAO's members.

In Buri Ram, a voter was detained for tearing up the ballot after making a mistake in marking the number for a candidate.

Buri Ram election director Thawee Chunkoh said the balloting took place without a glitch although officials have yet to sort out the myriad complaints about vote buying.

In constituencies witnessing a tight race, the bribes reportedly soared to Bt2,000 per vote.

Some candidates handed out pre-paid telephone cards in lieu of bills.

In Trang, Ban Khlong Then police rounded up independent candidate Thawee Phuagphet on suspicion of buying votes.

Confronted by evidence seized from his home, including Bt39,300 in cash and a list of voters, Thawee admitted he was preparing to distribute the funds in order to sway votes.

In Ayutthaya, election officials were checking into about 20 complaints related to vote buying.

A loan shark testified that a candidate borrowed Bt500,000, probably for a war chest to lock up votes.

In Satun, about 60 inhabitants of an island could not travel to the polling station on another island due to stormy seas.

-- The Nation 2009/07/09

They fact that it is being reported is a positive, and the EC is pretty good about following up on these issues. Brick by brick, my citizens...

[Plus]

All stories about clever voters aside, candidates wouldn't be wasting money if it didn't work.

There are MANY other less than legal ways to sway the voters and direct handing out money is probably not even the most effective.

[givenall]

I always wonder who you know if you got your money’s worth. How does an official know he got the vote he paid for ? Are the voter workers and official give a report back to the candidate about voters?

If so why bother buying vote since you can short circuit the process and do ballot stuffing through the voter workers/officials. Or does this happen anyways

[hammered]

A lot more money and power now falls into the local government hands and it is a way to control. There are now powerful families in some areas who have more or less dropped out of national politcs where exposure is too high and risky and opted for controlling things on a local level.

Interesting they mention Udon, Buri Ram and Chaing Rai which are definitely not on the newer model but are three of the most clan controlled provinces in the country.

Nakhorn Ratchasima is a bit different being competetive between different groups.

The Trang case independent is probbaly going to be in big trouble. Funny how the little independent candidate gets it while the huge operations dont.

[hammered]

I always wonder who you know if you got your money’s worth. How does an official know he got the vote he paid for ? Are the voter workers and official give a report back to the candidate about voters?

If so why bother buying vote since you can short circuit the process and do ballot stuffing through the voter workers/officials. Or does this happen anyways

Half up front and half later is still employed. When the village or entity delivers the agreed percentage they get the rest to share aroud.

Another one is illegal gambling where you get really good odds on the favoured candidate and make a killing when they win.

There are other variations and a lot is done by cash transfer etc now

Those who practice this arent silly. Every party/individual may give some money out for patronage reasons but the abvove techniques work a lot more on guaranteeing a vote.

[toptuan]

I always wonder who you know if you got your money’s worth. How does an official know he got the vote he paid for ? Are the voter workers and official give a report back to the candidate about voters?

If so why bother buying vote since you can short circuit the process and do ballot stuffing through the voter workers/officials. Or does this happen anyways

Well, here's one way. In a small village down the road from me, the vote-buyers give one high-quality slipper to the voter before the election. If he wins, he returns to the households to give the matching slipper to the single-slipper owner. Not absolute proof that they voted for him, but it does add a little incentive to complete your hi-so footwear collection.

Edited September 7, 2009 by toptuan

[TerraPosse]

It certainly was quite interesting spending this last weekend at the village in Ubon were my gf comes from.  Sure enough there were folks walking in yesterday morning giving some cash to her.  I asked her about it and then she told me these were people 'paying' for her vote.  I explained to her that this isn't how you should cast your vote.  She understood and then asked me how this differs from politicians back in Europe making promises to elicit votes which they had clearly no intention of keeping. Well, she had a point there.

She still voted for a family friend she intended to vote for anyway and gave the ill gotten gains away to her nephew and her daughter.  

[SHYTALK]

Nato forces have sufferred tremendous losses in bringing free and fair elections to iraq and afghanistan.

Does corruption still exist-yes

Does money change hands -yes

Are ballot boxes disqualified -yes.

Do election results stand=yes.

True Democracy can live with it, thai vested interest and dark forces cannot.

[animatic]

So why not mention Iran...

[hammered]

Nato forces have sufferred tremendous losses in bringing free and fair elections to iraq and afghanistan.

Does corruption still exist-yes

Does money change hands -yes

Are ballot boxes disqualified -yes.

Do election results stand=yes.

True Democracy can live with it, thai vested interest and dark forces cannot.

Lest wait and see there are unconfirmed reports that Karzai told Holbroke where to go when he said even if Karzai won the election to avoid a run off he must still allow a run off or accept a loser or two in his government. A big change considering when Kharzai first one he barely scraped 50% plus 1 and the number of ignored electoral complaints would easily have pushed his count below the bar

Mmmmm. Not sure using wartorn countries occupied by western forces is a good example: Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Chile,

Or for that matter countries that have the audacity not to choose the parties of the wests vested interests and dark forces: Palestine (freest election ever in an Arab country), Chile, Venezuela (that little attempt to remove the prez didnt work)

By the way, excluding NATO propogandists and Bushista front organizations does anyone describe the elections in Iraq and Afghanistan as free and fair?

[Chunkton]

Nato forces have sufferred tremendous losses in bringing free and fair elections to iraq and afghanistan.

Does corruption still exist-yes

Does money change hands -yes

Are ballot boxes disqualified -yes.

Do election results stand=yes.

True Democracy can live with it, thai vested interest and dark forces cannot.

Not to mention that any democracy is a cauldon of corruption. Just look at the USA, with all the Wall St donations, any wonder they got the TARP money, which enabled banksters to refinance the banks these vampires had sucked dry for capital paying themselves unwarranted bonuses. So now they are back to paying themselves again.

Thailand is small fry compared to western "less visible" institutionalized corruption.

[Mosha]

I always wonder who you know if you got your money’s worth. How does an official know he got the vote he paid for ? Are the voter workers and official give a report back to the candidate about voters?

If so why bother buying vote since you can short circuit the process and do ballot stuffing through the voter workers/officials. Or does this happen anyways

Half up front and half later is still employed. When the village or entity delivers the agreed percentage they get the rest to share aroud.

Another one is illegal gambling where you get really good odds on the favoured candidate and make a killing when they win.

There are other variations and a lot is done by cash transfer etc now

Those who practice this arent silly. Every party/individual may give some money out for patronage reasons but the abvove techniques work a lot more on guaranteeing a vote.

//The given information could not be verified and therefore I have deleted it at this time.

Feel free to repost it with a link or mentioning of the TV channel.

Edited September 7, 2009 by webfact
information could not be verified

[Plus]

Elections do not equal democracy.

The government must listen to the people and look after their interests, too.

Social contracts like "we steal as much as we want but we'll also throw enough your way to keep you happy" do not equal democracy either. They do that in Saudi Arabia and other oil rich Middle East countries.

Democracy is also inclusive - winner takes all attitude is not democracy, like pandering to the majority of population but completely tramping upon interests of minority.

And the way Thai elections are won and their "acceptable" rules of fight - democracy shouldn't even be mentioned.

[Plus]

Webfact, I think you should leave that Mosha's info but with a disclaimer that it is unconfirmed.

Not everything is reported in English media and not every Thai story can be followed and verified. Some breaking news stories are withdrawn from publication, too.

Even if that report is a rumor - it gives a background to how elections are run and covered here and you shouldn't trust anybody reporting on them.

There are all kinds of wild accusations thrown around against rival candidates that never check out, too. They are all part of the overall story.

[Mario2008]

We also don't want to discuss rumors and would like to see some more confirmation due to the already sensitive political situation.

[raro]

I always wonder who you know if you got your money's worth. How does an official know he got the vote he paid for ? Are the voter workers and official give a report back to the candidate about voters?

If so why bother buying vote since you can short circuit the process and do ballot stuffing through the voter workers/officials. Or does this happen anyways

without wanting to stir this thread up more than necessary....my ex-ex-girlfriend's father was Puyai Baan in a province I don't want to disclose here.

Anyways, when there were elections, the voters got their voting money beforehand. If then the other party representative knocks on the door and offers his voting money, they would tell him that they got paid already and made their decision. Try again on next election and we'll vote for you.

All honest, not money collected twice and for sure not vote for yet another party.

[dre1247]

Ponder on this,

Democracy as we all realise by now, is so wonderful. Therefore these straightforward questions must be asked.

"Why do governments only rarely or never use referendums (referendums are 'democratically' prohibited in Germany) on important matters and allow the majority to make the decisions that affect their lives?"

"Why is democracy not used in the military system anywhere in the world? We know that the military uses the utmost dictatorial form of control in order to maximise its efficiency. Hence, if democracy does not work in the most efficient form of existence, in the military, why should it work in our daily lives?"

"Why is democracy never used in the corporate business system, which is the financial engine of the world and especially the democratic system?"

"Why do businesses of all styles and sizes have bosses running them, and not their employees having a say in the management by using a democratic vote?"

Test: Ask any voter, in any democratic country, about his or her own democratic system the simple question. "How many seats does your Parliament hold?" and wait for the answer. Answer: The vast majority of the population has no idea at all.

Democracy is a clever scam that persuades the many, that by having a right to vote for who is elected to represent them, that they hold the keys of power. In reality its real purpose is to give the power to the few for the sole benefit of the few. Thus the few have the protection of the many that voted for their elected representative.

I trust you get my drift... We are so taken by the nose for hundreds of years that we now belief and want to die for it.......

[Mosha]

I always wonder who you know if you got your money's worth. How does an official know he got the vote he paid for ? Are the voter workers and official give a report back to the candidate about voters?

If so why bother buying vote since you can short circuit the process and do ballot stuffing through the voter workers/officials. Or does this happen anyways

without wanting to stir this thread up more than necessary....my ex-ex-girlfriend's father was Puyai Baan in a province I don't want to disclose here.

Anyways, when there were elections, the voters got their voting money beforehand. If then the other party representative knocks on the door and offers his voting money, they would tell him that they got paid already and made their decision. Try again on next election and we'll vote for you.

All honest, not money collected twice and for sure not vote for yet another party.

Sorry but my post gets edited as it can not be verified. Then this gets posted.

[JAG]

I don't know about Udon, but Chiang Rai and Buri Ram are hardly hot beds of support for Abhisit, the Democrats, the Yellows or any other manifestations of the current political establishment.

I am therefore not surprised that they are named as the provinces in which vote rigging is prevalent.

Therefore, presumably, any result from these provinces, which does not favour Abhisit, the Democrats, the Yellows or any other manifestations of the current political establishment can be discounted as flawed.