Nine Killed As Truck, Van Collide Head-on

[apetley]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2339...collide-head-on

From todays Bangkok Post.

I usually do make my border hops at the Mae Sot crossing and do not really enjoy the road over the mountains between Tak and Mae Sot.

The mini buses seem to have more than their fair share of idiots at the wheel and that combined with the slow overladen trucks and lorries, usually overladen, is a recipe for disaster.

[Mario2008]

Driven that road many times, inclusing in the mini bus from Pitsanulok to Mae Sod. Tak-Mae Sod is a beautiful road, but dangerous as any road in Thailands with lots of curves.

A sad loss of life.

[geriatrickid]

2 Dutch men & 7 Thai nationals. The victims of this crash will number more than the 9 in the van.

I wonder how many families are now minus a dad, son, uncle, husband etc. How many families have lost the main income earner and will be pushed into poverty? A very sad story, and one that will hurt many.

[G54]

Definitely like suicide alley on that road as you see so many crossing well over onto the other side of the road on those blind curves.

A sad loss of life and I am surprised there are not more accidents there with broken down trucks and other vehicles stopped around blind bends.

[IanForbes]

Considering how Thai drivers drive I'm not surprised there aren't more accidents. Most of my close calls when riding my motorcycle were due to careless Thai, van drivers. Every time we drive to Uttaradit from Chiang Mai we see people passing on corners. Every time I take the bus to Mai Sai from Chiang Mai I see crazy drivers. At least in the city the accidents are usually at slow speeds.

[Scott]

My condolences to the friends and family members of the victims.

[MiG16]

moving to the news forum

please keep this respectful people

[webfact]

Its very sad.

My condolences to the families and friends.

[animatic]

So sad that the carnage still contuinues.

Driving, expecting you amulets to keep you safe, is not professional.

But is par for the course here.

My condolences to the families also.

[FarangForce5]

Sad event for all the families of those involved in the crash. I have always felt very uneasy whenever speeding down the road in the minivans here, whipping around blind curves and dodging oncoming cars when passing others on single-lane roads.

[longstebe]

Very sad, my thoughts go out to the victims families.

I travel on some curvy roads (213) and often wonder how the guy in front of me knows what coming around

the bend or over the brow.

Safety first. I'm always telling the wife this. We even joke about it but it's there to remind us.

[Chunkton]

Of course very sorry for all the bereaved.

Minivan drivers are the most dangerous on the road, they speed and make suicidal overtakes. I have spent a lot of time on the highways and they still amaze with their antics. I drive my kids to school rather than let them set foot in a minivan, have even observed the school ones driving dangerously. If don't want to fly, take the train, never a bus.

[TAWP]

I am ok in minivans, however in larger buses hauling long distances...that is where I have experienced some really scary moments in Thailand.

[LaoPo]

I am ok in minivans, however in larger buses hauling long distances...that is where I have experienced some really scary moments in Thailand.

..are you ?

The nine were killed in a minivan....In a larger bus one has at least a small chance to survive, although not much more, but a minivan crashing into a big truck....fatal.

If I would go on a visa-trip I'd rent a minivan or car; I suppose Farang have a better responsibility feeling than most of the suicide drivers in Thailand.

I had some narrow escapes in the past as well.

LaoPo

[elkangorito]

I just love how Thai drivers don't bat an eyelid as they overtake on a bend or a hill, with clearly marked unbroken centre lines. In the meantime, I'm in the back seat praying that I will die instantly & not be maimed for life.

What goes through their mind? Answer: the windscreen, motor etc.

[TAWP]

I am ok in minivans, however in larger buses hauling long distances...that is where I have experienced some really scary moments in Thailand.

..are you ?

The nine were killed in a minivan....In a larger bus one has at least a small chance to survive, although not much more, but a minivan crashing into a big truck....fatal.

If I would go on a visa-trip I'd rent a minivan or car; I suppose Farang have a better responsibility feeling than most of the suicide drivers in Thailand.

I had some narrow escapes in the past as well.

LaoPo

By ok, I mean, I am not so worried. Perhaps because the far scarier, as mentioned above, moments have been in large buses. Only been in crash with buss and taxi too, never minivan...*knocks on wood*.

Or also partly because minivan is mostly used within Bangkok and the high-speed corner-overtakes in the wrong lane of traffic is mostly experienced outside the city.

[webfact]

Whenever I got the chance to avoid travel on a mini van in Thailand I took that chance.

The "driving style and attitude" of some Thai drives simply frightens me too much.

Made a lot of own bad experiences and I am happy to be still alive!

[gohmer]

moving to the news forum

please keep this respectful people

Edited September 8, 2009 by webfact
flaming comment deleted

[nexflo]

condolences go out to the family

to correct things...the guys were germans...not dutch...on their fourth day of a 9-month world-trip.....just got out of school this year.

...too bad things like that have to happen...makes you think twice about doing some things...

RiP

[TAWP]

condolences go out to the family

to correct things...the guys were germans...not dutch...on their fourth day of a 9-month world-trip.....just got out of school this year.

...too bad things like that have to happen...makes you think twice about doing some things...

RiP

O-no, 4th day. They had both plans and life ahead of them. :/

[LaoPo]

condolences go out to the family

to correct things...the guys were germans...not dutch...on their fourth day of a 9-month world-trip.....just got out of school this year.

...too bad things like that have to happen...makes you think twice about doing some things...

RiP

:D Oh my Goodness; I wish both families as well as the families of the other people who were killed my sincerest condolences.

So young....so full of plans....full of joy....on a 9 month world-trip....what an enormous sorrow...

RIP

LaoPo

[lioness]

It doesn't matter what road you are on in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter, if drivers are not paying attention and/or are not driving with due diligence, are drunk or driving unroadworthy vehicles, then accidents will happen.

It is not the road that is dangerous, it's the people on it.

[LaoPo]

It is not the road that is dangerous, it's the people on it.

It's both.

LaoPo

[animatic]

I won't ride with drivers with over 2 good luck amulets.

One or two can be considered respectful to Buddha etc.

Or just lightly superstitious, depending.

But 3-4+ is some guy depending on those amulets for his good luck on the road.

And my observations is that THOSE drivers drive like they think their amulet protects them.

So no need to take precautions or drive defensively, they have bought their defense against accidents.

Cockdee ME!

But it does squat for those in the back seat, does it?

Edited September 12, 2009 by animatic

[Mosha]

This is really sad. I rember on my 1st trip here, and took a hotel organised trip to the River Kwai. On the way back the minibus was being driven erratically. I was watching the driver through his rear view mirror. For minutes at a time his eyes looked to be shut.

Another one that gets to me, is slow moving lorries indicating left to tell you to pass. This usually just before a blind corner, or the brow of a hill. I always decline the offer.

[toptuan]

I work for a university that employs only kamikaze van drivers who MUST be ex-convicts or ya-ba addicts. Several years ago a van-full of professors were killed by one of these drivers while on a "study seminar" to Hua Hin. I refuse to travel with them. When the students or faculty have an outing and I have to go---it's the bus for me. I know, just marginally safer. I get there later, but I get there.

[brahmburgers]

I am ok in minivans, however in larger buses hauling long distances...that is where I have experienced some really scary moments in Thailand.

..are you ?

The nine were killed in a minivan....In a larger bus one has at least a small chance to survive, although not much more, but a minivan crashing into a big truck....fatal.

If I would go on a visa-trip I'd rent a minivan or car; I suppose Farang have a better responsibility feeling than most of the suicide drivers in Thailand.

I had some narrow escapes in the past as well.

LaoPo

it's mostly the drivers. I wish I had a workable suggestion/solution to the endemic awful driving problem in Thailand, yet I'm cynical that the patterns will continue for decades. Kids all over Thailand learn bad driving habits every day from their elders, as they observe how their parents/bus drivers/others drive. As they soak up particular types of driving styles, then they obviously learn 'that's the way to do it' without even knowing such driving is inherently dangerous.

It's like if a kid sees her/his father (and every other adult) kick the door everytime they enter or leave a building, that kid is going to indelibly learn to kick doors in the same manner.

Another factor is Thais' selfishness - particularly regarding 'time.' Though there are reams of courtesy acts that all Thais learn from infancy (take off shoes, don't step over others' legs, etc ad infinitum), there are no learned etiquette regarding modern things like driving (same for phone, but that's another topic). When have you ever had a Thai person wave and smile a 'thank you' when you've stopped to allow them the right of way to proceed on a narrow street?

A Thai person driving will think their time is more important than anyone else's (except royalty).

So, when they need to get from point A to point B, cutting corners (literally and figuratively) is fine. Cutting off other drivers/pedestrians, cutting corners at turns, speeding, going through red lights, not slowing to yield to others, .....the list could go on for pages, .....are all part and parcel of driving here.

Nearly every time I slow for a red light, other drivers will cut in front of me. When I slow to allow people to cross the street (elders, monks, anyone else), the driver in back might honk impatiently. Also, motorbike riders will spill forward on either side, so the pedestrians might be even more endangered by me slowing and stopping for them. How to change ultra-selfish/rude attitudes? I don't know.

Edited September 12, 2009 by brahmburgers

[LaoPo]

I am ok in minivans, however in larger buses hauling long distances...that is where I have experienced some really scary moments in Thailand.

..are you ?

The nine were killed in a minivan....In a larger bus one has at least a small chance to survive, although not much more, but a minivan crashing into a big truck....fatal.

If I would go on a visa-trip I'd rent a minivan or car; I suppose Farang have a better responsibility feeling than most of the suicide drivers in Thailand.

I had some narrow escapes in the past as well.

LaoPo

it's mostly the drivers. I wish I had a workable suggestion/solution to the endemic awful driving problem in Thailand, yet I'm cynical that the patterns will continue for decades. Kids all over Thailand learn bad driving habits every day from their elders, as they observe how their parents/bus drivers/others drive. As they soak up particular types of driving styles, then they obviously learn 'that's the way to do it' without even knowing such driving is inherently dangerous.

It's like if a kid sees her/his father (and every other adult) kick the door everytime they enter or leave a building, that kid is going to indelibly learn to kick doors in the same manner.

Another factor is Thais' selfishness - particularly regarding 'time.' Though there are reams of courtesy acts that all Thais learn from infancy (take off shoes, don't step over others' legs, etc ad infinitum), there are no learned etiquette regarding modern things like driving (same for phone, but that's another topic). When have you ever had a Thai person wave and smile a 'thank you' when you've stopped to allow them the right of way to proceed on a narrow street?

A Thai person driving will think their time is more important than anyone else's (except royalty).

So, when they need to get from point A to point B, cutting corners (literally and figuratively) is fine. Cutting off other drivers/pedestrians, cutting corners at turns, speeding, going through red lights, not slowing to yield to others, .....the list could go on for pages, .....are all part and parcel of driving here.

Nearly every time I slow for a red light, other drivers will cut in front of me. When I slow to allow people to cross the street (elders, monks, anyone else), the driver in back might honk impatiently. Also, motorbike riders will spill forward on either side, so the pedestrians might be even more endangered by me slowing and stopping for them. How to change ultra-selfish/rude attitudes? I don't know.

Harsh...very harsh penalties; 3 penalties and lose your driver license for 1 year; even put those insane drivers in jail. That will help...a little.

Implement strict speeds controls with heavy fines; check safety belts; check drivers' licenses; alcohol checks....

It helped in the west...it could in Thailand. But it takes time.....it will take many more thousands of deaths on the roads first before they start realizing they can't continue like this

LaoPo

[animatic]

They don't even bother to register their cars or get plates here half the time.

Buy a car, put it one the road, have a friend show you how to drive it.

There is no sense of courtesy what so ever. But also lack of any discernible enforcement.

There are road stops for helmets, and drugs, but for little else.

But the two most dangerous elements are large truck drivers, and minivan drivers,

thinking they are immortal, and on a tight schedule to get back to the lao kao with friends.

Well lets not forget the guys who have mortgaged 5 years of the family income for a BIG BLACK TRUCK...

Said truck having raised their status; so the wai need not be as high or the bow as deep.

And on the road, no one is their better, till they exit the vehicle.

Edited September 13, 2009 by animatic

[toptuan]

Harsh...very harsh penalties; 3 penalties and lose your driver license for 1 year....That will help...a little.

Aye matey, there's the rub...WHAT drivers license?

I would wager that less than 50% of the drivers in my province have a license--including the 10 and 11 year-olds I see driving motorbikes out on the main roads of our mid-sized Thai city. Here, most adults were only driving buffalo 10 years prior to taking the wheel of a car/pick-up. Same driving habits.

In one local village, a father lets his 10-year-old drive his van around the village to make deliveries. The police reaction? "It will help the boy to learn about traffic laws."

Yes, I'm in Isaan, but I would guess the whole of Thailand runs less than a 60% rate in holders of driver's licenses.

I went to get my Thai drivers license at the local office, and the process was a joke. We watched a video that was full of regulations about "load limits for commercial trucks," whether you can tow a trailer or not, etc. Nothing about "right of way," driving on the wrong side of the street, looking both ways at a major intersection, and all the other safe driving habits which would help lower highway fatalities. The transportation dept. has a major disconnect between driver education and the horrendous highway fatality rate in this country (4 times that of developed countries, and one of the worst in the world.)

Yes, it starts with enforcement--but at the source. Conversely, the only reason police stop people in our province is for no helmets (road block once a week, same day, same time). After their weekly tea-money is collected (from outsiders who don't know the weekly schedule), no sight nor sound of the BIB until the following week.