Should I Move To Chiang Mai?

[chriswatson]

Hi all,

I'm currently living in London with Thai wife and child. Been together about 4 years and she's from Li District. Seriously thinking of giving life a go in Chiang Mai.

Personally only been there twice although wife used to work there for 10 years. First time I went was about six years ago and I wasn't that impressed. However second time I went, it seemed an entirely different city. Hadn't appreciated it first time round, obviously. Found it a mixture of western shopping malls, Thai street food and cosmopolitan art/culture. Am I wrong?

So experts! What's the pros and cons of living in this city? I'm particularly interested in the following.

Cool but safe (for kids) areas to live (either in town or outside - not fond of identikit ferang estates though).

Bars you can have a drink in and not have to play Connect Four (am married man).

Cinemas, theatres, art exhibitions, cultural stuff.

Is Chiang Mai really the South East Asian equivalent to Luton, England (i.e. cheap flights hub).

How easy is it it to get a job as a teacher, and could this mean child gets to go to international school for free? (I have a BA Hons degree and 20 years business experience in entertainment, technology, law and contract negotiations but no formal teaching qualifications).

Business opportunities with other farangs (does it have that kind of environment)?

Comments welcome!

Best regards,

Chris (not real name).

[ChangMaiSausage]

Is Chiang Mai really the South East Asian equivalent to Luton, England (i.e. cheap flights hub).

Same price as flying to Krabi/phuket/ etc.. (only Samui is a lot more)

Chiang Mai is a great place and hopefully it will be my home in the future.

Plenty of people can anser your questions better than me.

[chriswatson]

Hi, but I understood Chiang Mai offers cheapish flights to Goa, Hong Kong etc (unlike say Samui, Krabi etc). This is why I ask if it's like a Luton with an "Easy Jet" type service?

[chiangmaibruce]

Welcome Chris (not real name), Bruce (real name) here,

1. We get many discussion threads pretty much identical to this one started in this forum ... about fortnightly. So the first thing you can do is scroll back through previous pages of threads to find and read them ... in the event that the old hands get fatigued from repeating the same advice over and over. There is also a forum search facility top right this page

2. Chiang Mai is a bit of a hub although less flights now due to falling airline revenues. Some of the flights are discount and some not so - it depends on carrier, route, discount sales, etc. Look at the Air Asia web site to see services by one of the low cost providers.

3. Some people like living here and some, well not quite so much. It's quite individual as there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the place - unless you are into snow-skiing or big-wave surfing or something like that. Rents are cheap now, so as per all the earlier threads ... stay in a cheap guest house while you search for a place to rent and then try the city on for size for six months or so.

[ThaiPauly]

Hi, but I understood Chiang Mai offers cheapish flights to Goa, Hong Kong etc (unlike say Samui, Krabi etc). This is why I ask if it's like a Luton with an "Easy Jet" type service?

Air Asia, Nok Air and One2Go are the budget carriers, but to my knowledge none of them fly from CM to other countries, I think only Thai Airways do that, and they are not cheap.

Very few flights out of Thailand from CM. I think its only Rangoon (Burma) Seol (Korea) and Singapore, maybe one or two more I have missed. But defo not Hong Kong or India. There used to be flights to China and HK but these stopped as the credit crunch took hold.

However, Air Asia do some very good deals if you book in advance by 6 months or so. Recently I managed to get CM -BK then BK-HK for just over 120 quid all in...for 2. Then I got the same deal to go from CM-Bali.

So if you are prepared to plan your trips in advance you CAN get some great Easy Jet type flights, but be prepared for a similar service, ie you have to pay for all your food and drink and they are often late.

[Blinky Bill]

Well Chris, Chiang Mai was a great place some years ago but sadly too many wangkers from foreign countries have decided to make it their home, whether long term or otherwise.

Mind you, when I say that, I'm not saying that any members of the Thai Visa forum fall into that category. The one's I'm referring to are a completely different bunch.

Chiang Mai is not an aviation hub, there are a few international flights but very limited.

Good luck.

[anonymouse]

Kuala Lumpur is the South East Asian low cost airport hub, it has direct flights to Chiang Mai.

Business opportunities with other farangs - probably easier to network here but also as Blinky pointed out a lot of dogdy Wangkers as well

Teaching not much money in it unless you get in one of the International Schools, which I imagine wouldn't be easy.

Tuskers, The Red Lion & The Olde Bell would be 3 pubs that would match your drinking requirements.

There are two cinemas, both have there own charms.

I live in a Moo Baan around 10km out of town, mainly Thai's with about 10% farangs always felt it pretty safe for my kids, it's drugs and motorbikes I'm worried about when they reach the teeenage years.

Things are not as cheap here as they were a few years back.

I'd say at least take an extended holiday over here before making any sort of commitment.

All in all a great place to live if you have a reasonable income

[alant]

wangkers, mmm well suppose the cap fits

like the place my self, dont have kids but see a few in the area where i live about 5km out, good facilities for them and pretty safe, good schools, connect 4, way too advanced for homely chiangmai

some culture see other threads, food good, flights ok but not bangkok or phuket stuck up north you see.

cooler in the winter mponths, makes it rather nice

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe a 5% chance of maybe teaching in an international school here after 5 or more years of teaching EFL for 30 to 35K per month.

[chriswatson]

Welcome Chris (not real name), Bruce (real name) here,

1. We get many discussion threads pretty much identical to this one started in this forum ... about fortnightly. So the first thing you can do is scroll back through previous pages of threads to find and read them ... in the event that the old hands get fatigued from repeating the same advice over and over. There is also a forum search facility top right this page

2. Chiang Mai is a bit of a hub although less flights now due to falling airline revenues. Some of the flights are discount and some not so - it depends on carrier, route, discount sales, etc. Look at the Air Asia web site to see services by one of the low cost providers.

3. Some people like living here and some, well not quite so much. It's quite individual as there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the place - unless you are into snow-skiing or big-wave surfing or something like that. Rents are cheap now, so as per all the earlier threads ... stay in a cheap guest house while you search for a place to rent and then try the city on for size for six months or so.

Thanks for the welcome Bruce,

Sorry for being unoriginal, but didn't know where to start. Will make use of the search facility as you suggest. May well hole up near wife's family in Li District (3 hours outside CM) and rent some cheap rooms in town to reccie the city proper.

Cheers

[chriswatson]

Well Chris, Chiang Mai was a great place some years ago but sadly too many wangkers from foreign countries have decided to make it their home, whether long term or otherwise.

Mind you, when I say that, I'm not saying that any members of the Thai Visa forum fall into that category. The one's I'm referring to are a completely different bunch.

Chiang Mai is not an aviation hub, there are a few international flights but very limited.

Good luck.

Hi Blinky Bill,

Will need to read up elsewhere in this forum to understand your view on "wangsters". Shame the feedback so far is not in-line with my expectations of CM still being an aviation hub...

Edited September 10, 2009 by chriswatson

[chriswatson]

Kuala Lumpur is the South East Asian low cost airport hub, it has direct flights to Chiang Mai.

Business opportunities with other farangs - probably easier to network here but also as Blinky pointed out a lot of dogdy Wangkers as well

Teaching not much money in it unless you get in one of the International Schools, which I imagine wouldn't be easy.

Tuskers, The Red Lion & The Olde Bell would be 3 pubs that would match your drinking requirements.

There are two cinemas, both have there own charms.

I live in a Moo Baan around 10km out of town, mainly Thai's with about 10% farangs always felt it pretty safe for my kids, it's drugs and motorbikes I'm worried about when they reach the teeenage years.

Things are not as cheap here as they were a few years back.

I'd say at least take an extended holiday over here before making any sort of commitment.

All in all a great place to live if you have a reasonable income

Hi anonymouse,

Not looking for any "get rich quick" bar deals or jewels exporting, but get the message on wangsters. More interested in business opportunities fitting my background.

Not especially looking for good money in teaching, but thought I might have something to offer, esp. if same thought can be extended to my sibling.

Those pubs sound home-from-home. Good to know there's a Red Lion down the street from me now, as well as in Chiang Mai.

Definitely with you on the "extended holiday" being the first step.

What's a reasonable income though? I'm thinking 45K living costs and 14K schooling costs per month on the basis of owning my own property and transport. Travel to UK and elsewhere not included. Would this work?

[chriswatson]

wangkers, mmm well suppose the cap fits

like the place my self, dont have kids but see a few in the area where i live about 5km out, good facilities for them and pretty safe, good schools, connect 4, way too advanced for homely chiangmai

some culture see other threads, food good, flights ok but not bangkok or phuket stuck up north you see.

cooler in the winter mponths, makes it rather nice

Hi alant,

Sounds good to me. I like the idea of "cool winter months" as opposed to "dark, depressing and bloody miserable in the UK".

[chriswatson]

Maybe a 5% chance of maybe teaching in an international school here after 5 or more years of teaching EFL for 30 to 35K per month.

Hi PeaceBlondie,

Guess international school teaching is not such a great idea or a reasonable expectation for me short term, then.

What's the nest step down...

Cheers

[wolf5370]

Probably had the answers ten times over by now, but here my little pearls..

Hi all,

I'm currently living in London with Thai wife and child. Been together about 4 years and she's from Li District. Seriously thinking of giving life a go in Chiang Mai.

Think long and hard (especially as you have only been here twice) - plan it, don't do it on a whim or in lou of the mid-life-crises Harley purchase or fling. If you hav, and you're an adult so its up you, then copme and join us wangkers (as Blinky put it ).

Personally only been there twice although wife used to work there for 10 years. First time I went was about six years ago and I wasn't that impressed. However second time I went, it seemed an entirely different city. Hadn't appreciated it first time round, obviously. Found it a mixture of western shopping malls, Thai street food and cosmopolitan art/culture. Am I wrong?

Yes and no. There are more cosmopolitan places on earth - Thais are very nationalistic and prideful and some will never accept us as anything more than unwelcome guests - but <deleted> 'em, the rest are nice and you can make it your home with a little effort (and a heavy lean on the Mrs). Lots of art and culture if you go looking - the artists in the Night Bazaar are brilliant.

So experts! What's the pros and cons of living in this city? I'm particularly interested in the following.

Cool but safe (for kids) areas to live (either in town or outside - not fond of identikit ferang estates though).

I don't like the rabbit hutch Moo Bahn houses either, plenty to choose from here - especiaslly at the moment. Rent first (at least a year) and look around for the place you like best.

Bars you can have a drink in and not have to play Connect Four (am married man).

My personal fav is The Guitarman at the far end of Loi Kroh, good grub/beer/music/staff and severe lack of bargirls. I also like the Interbar (Taipae Rd) - louder music, open a bit later, nice staff and not many BGs. There are plenty of others - someone was talkinmg about the Garden near Walking St Market the other day, bujt haven't been there yet. There are plenty of other places the Mrs wouldn't like either (Spicey's, Foxlady, No1 Bar etc etc etc)

Cinemas, theatres, art exhibitions, cultural stuff.

Not sure if cinemas are classed as cultural, but the Cineplex at the Airport Plaza is cheap and always has English language films (you can take thw whole family for the price of na ticket in the UK!). I think CMU has an art galley and does expos, but there are museums and the like here too (and they are virtually empty most opf the time, so you get a free guide usually too!). Check out the museum next to the Three Kings Memorial at the end of Walking Street Museum.

Is Chiang Mai really the South East Asian equivalent to Luton, England (i.e. cheap flights hub).

Nope.

How easy is it it to get a job as a teacher, and could this mean child gets to go to international school for free? (I have a BA Hons degree and 20 years business experience in entertainment, technology, law and contract negotiations but no formal teaching qualifications).

OK. You can get a TEFL (SEE TEFL is good - Google it - and cheaper than CMU, its also ISO approved - the only one in Asia according to some news links that were posted here recently - and no I am not affiliated). That will be about 4 weeks and $1000 give or take. To get a position in an international school you will almost certainly need a teaching degree too. I have been told that they give free places to their teachers' kids though. Non-Int schools will pay between 20K and 40K on average for English - subject teachers get a bit more - that's Baht/Month by the way.

Business opportunities with other farangs (does it have that kind of environment)?

Erm, good way to end up skint - first rule here the only people to trust less than the locals are the foreigners - plenty of people with sob stories, so be careful!!!!

Comments welcome!

Good luck - and you can buy me a large Singha at The Guitarman when you get here

Best regards,

Chris (not real name).

[anonymouse]

Kuala Lumpur is the South East Asian low cost airport hub, it has direct flights to Chiang Mai.

Business opportunities with other farangs - probably easier to network here but also as Blinky pointed out a lot of dogdy Wangkers as well

Teaching not much money in it unless you get in one of the International Schools, which I imagine wouldn't be easy.

Tuskers, The Red Lion & The Olde Bell would be 3 pubs that would match your drinking requirements.

There are two cinemas, both have there own charms.

I live in a Moo Baan around 10km out of town, mainly Thai's with about 10% farangs always felt it pretty safe for my kids, it's drugs and motorbikes I'm worried about when they reach the teeenage years.

Things are not as cheap here as they were a few years back.

I'd say at least take an extended holiday over here before making any sort of commitment.

All in all a great place to live if you have a reasonable income

Hi anonymouse,

Not looking for any "get rich quick" bar deals or jewels exporting, but get the message on wangsters. More interested in business opportunities fitting my background.

Not especially looking for good money in teaching, but thought I might have something to offer, esp. if same thought can be extended to my sibling.

Those pubs sound home-from-home. Good to know there's a Red Lion down the street from me now, as well as in Chiang Mai.

Definitely with you on the "extended holiday" being the first step.

What's a reasonable income though? I'm thinking 45K living costs and 14K schooling costs per month on the basis of owning my own property and transport. Travel to UK and elsewhere not included. Would this work?

Once you start mentioning how much you need to live on in these topics they tend to go down-hill but I'd say you would be pretty much on the ball. Schooling costs; 90-100k a year would get your child into a school with an English programme, your looking at around 200k for an international school.

[elektrified]

Things are not as cheap here as they were a few years back.

I'd say at least take an extended holiday over here before making any sort of commitment.

All in all a great place to live if you have a reasonable income

Ain't that the truth...

[philliphn]

It is not generally recomended to go to Thailand if you need to make a living there. Most people have made their money, or earned pensions, or combinations of these things.

It is very very difficult to find a way to make a good living in Thailand. That is not to say that some people on this forum have not found a way to do this, because they have. But this is a big problem. My advice is make your money then go live in Thailand. Don't waste the most productive years of your life in Thailand and then be in the situation of having to return from where you came to then make a living. It is much harder to do it that way especially as you get older.

Take long vacations in LOS.

[malcy]

Well Chris, Chiang Mai was a great place some years ago but sadly too many wangkers from foreign countries have decided to make it their home, whether long term or otherwise

It's not just chiang mai blinky it seems to be like that everywhere, maybe i'm just getting a bit older and less tolerant of wangkers

[Thakkar]

Well Chris, Chiang Mai was a great place some years ago but sadly too many wangkers from foreign countries have decided to make it their home...snip

At my high school in HK, a group of three students all surnamed Wang (not that uncommon a surname) formed a folk band called The Wangkers. They were terrible singers. Their headline song was John Denver's Countly Load. They also performed Neil Diamond's Song Sung Brue. Have they all moved to CM??

[noise]

Maybe a 5% chance of maybe teaching in an international school here after 5 or more years of teaching EFL for 30 to 35K per month.

Hi PeaceBlondie,

Guess international school teaching is not such a great idea or a reasonable expectation for me short term, then.

What's the nest step down...Cheers

A warning flag popped up in my mind the split second I saw you wrote "how easy to get a job". I skimmed through all the rest of the replies and didn't see anything else that really addressed working.

And unless you want to sink in a lot of capital and start your own business (open a bar/pub/restaurant if you want to lose money quickly), I doubt you will find any job in country. You do know, don't you, that it is not what you can do that lets you get a work permit, it is what you can do that a Thai can not do. Other than being a native English speaker for teaching English, there is not much out there.

With a family, I would suggest you do not want to work without a work permit; no sense in taking unnecessary risks. So, unless you have an established, steady independent income/pension to live on, I would further suggest you do not make any drastic move (as Wolf suggested). It would be better to stay home and buy that Harley than sell out and move here and then find you can not live on what you have.

You can live on next to nothing compared to England, but do you want to? If you come in December and spend 2 weeks in your wife's home town, you will have fun and be comfortable. But in May? After 5 months? Hotter and more humid that you can believe? Body covered with an oily sheen 24 hrs of the day no matter how many showers you take and the cheap life with a fan is just not the way it seemed in Dec?

All my friends and acquaintances that have happy, stress free lives here knew what they were getting into before they moved here. They either had the job before they came or they already had the income to match their life style. They are happy with the schools to which they send their children (i.e., they know what they can afford and whether or not that school has the level of education they want their children to receive). And they knew ahead of time what those school were/are.

I know one fellow who, because of his lack of funds, moved into a 2,500 baht/month studio apartment because it had free WI-FI (he no longer had to pay for the internet). One of my happy friends spends 2,500 baht a month for the internet alone.

NOISE'S BOTTOM LINE OPINION: If you have to work to live the way you want to live (repeat the way you want to live), don't come yet. Get your maximum retirement. Once both you and your wife are no longer working, then consider it.

[Thakkar]

Maybe a 5% chance of maybe teaching in an international school here after 5 or more years of teaching EFL for 30 to 35K per month.

Hi PeaceBlondie,

Guess international school teaching is not such a great idea or a reasonable expectation for me short term, then.

What's the nest step down...Cheers

A warning flag popped up in my mind the split second I saw you wrote "how easy to get a job". I skimmed through all the rest of the replies and didn't see anything else that really addressed working.

And unless you want to sink in a lot of capital and start your own business (open a bar/pub/restaurant if you want to lose money quickly), I doubt you will find any job in country. You do know, don't you, that it is not what you can do that lets you get a work permit, it is what you can do that a Thai can not do. Other than being a native English speaker for teaching English, there is not much out there.

With a family, I would suggest you do not want to work without a work permit; no sense in taking unnecessary risks. So, unless you have an established, steady independent income/pension to live on, I would further suggest you do not make any drastic move (as Wolf suggested). It would be better to stay home and buy that Harley than sell out and move here and then find you can not live on what you have.

You can live on next to nothing compared to England, but do you want to? If you come in December and spend 2 weeks in your wife's home town, you will have fun and be comfortable. But in May? After 5 months? Hotter and more humid that you can believe? Body covered with an oily sheen 24 hrs of the day no matter how many showers you take and the cheap life with a fan is just not the way it seemed in Dec?

All my friends and acquaintances that have happy, stress free lives here knew what they were getting into before they moved here. They either had the job before they came or they already had the income to match their life style. They are happy with the schools to which they send their children (i.e., they know what they can afford and whether or not that school has the level of education they want their children to receive). And they knew ahead of time what those school were/are.

I know one fellow who, because of his lack of funds, moved into a 2,500 baht/month studio apartment because it had free WI-FI (he no longer had to pay for the internet). One of my happy friends spends 2,500 baht a month for the internet alone.

NOISE'S BOTTOM LINE OPINION: If you have to work to live the way you want to live (repeat the way you want to live), don't come yet. Get your maximum retirement. Once both you and your wife are no longer working, then consider it.

This post by Noise is so good, it should be pinned.

[chriswatson]

I appreciate the "warning" guys. Noise's posting was exceedingly useful.

I don't think I'm a 40 year old suffering a mid-life crisis...don't particularly like Harley's either, more my brother's interest actually. I've worked for the past 20 years specifically to be in a position where I can migrate to more exotic lands and be young enough to enjoy it when I do. I have been married to my Thai wife for nearly five years now and we've been discussing doing something like this since we first met. So this is not a whim.

I'm definitely intending to take the slowly-slowly approach as many of you have advised, and have an initial "3-year plan" which I've been mulling over for the past 2 years. My "plan" does not currently include purchasing or building any Chiang Mail property until Year 2 at the earliest, nor is it subject to my having a job with a Thai employer. Having said that though, I think there is a lot I could offer certain Thai companies, esp. Telco's and ISP's due to my business network in the "creative industries" in Europe & US, and could potentially do something "that a Thai can not do" due to this. But the point is I'm not coming over to Thailand needing to gain employment or expecting to make a financial killing. I'm simply interested if any opportunities in my line of work arise.

The irony is, we're actually facing the future prospect of not being able to live "how we want to live” in UK, let alone Thailand, as my current contract work is ending imminently and there is no 100% certain, immediate, new work on our horizon, and to be honest, I'm not really looking for any. Should we try out Thailand for a full year, I am hopeful that letting the London flat I currently owner-occupy will heavily subsidize our Asian existence, whereas staying in it without incomings will represent a major financial drain.

I am not old enough for a UK state pension, and the revenue streams I'd be expecting to live from in Year 1 will, no doubt like others on here, be dependent on UK bank interest rates, void periods on UK rental property and exchange rates. Not much I can do about that but hope for the best and prepare for the worst (using Excel). Hopefully, over time, and one has to start somewhere, these will become "established, steady independent income(s)".

My expected expenditure, which is 45K/month living expenses, 15-18K/month rental costs and the purchase of a 600K 4x4, should hopefully be covered by the above. How does this budget sound for those of you already there? Anonymouse seems to think it was about right. For me, I think we can live happily like this, but will not know for sure until we give it a go.

However, I do fall into the "what will I do when I'm there" ex-pat class, which was why I asked about teaching prospects. Another way, which would not only exercise the mind, but on paper at least, looks more attractive than putting a lump sum into a UK bank, is to invest in constructing five or six bungalows on some land we own on a Thai island; but I need the time to decide whether there is an untapped market I can get to etc. This of course would be a big risk and involve relatively massive personal investment and is something no doubt to discuss on Thaivisa's property forum rather than here, but if this was to tick-over as per my current projections, then it'd certainly be a boost to our quality of life in terms of disposable income after Year 3. Alternatively we could sell the land, which even given current economic conditions should return us a reasonable sum.

However, neither options would be put into effect until Year 3, but by end of Year 2 I'd like to be in the position to decide whether we will be happy to remain in Thailand, and if affirmative, buy/build a modest dwelling presumably in Chiang Mai and budget for international school fees (currently about 18K a month?).

I do not know which school to send my child to yet, but then again she's a year or two below school age. One of my top reasons for trying things out at this moment in time is precisely because I want "to know what (we) can afford and whether or not that school has the level of education (we) want (our child) to receive". I also wish to avoid her starting UK education and then pulling her out of it and then potentially putting her back into it again if we decide we cannot settle in Thailand. This is a major contributor to why we want to make the move "now".

I have actually "lived" in Thailand before, just for a 3-month period, and built a bungalow ("project management from hel_l") that we now let, but that was down south and on an island. Visiting Chiang Mai, for albeit a shorter period of time shortly afterwards, made me realize that this city was better suited to me and family than remaining on an island, where I had the distinct possibility of going insane.

So thanks again guys. Further advice, especially based on the above, welcomed!

[wolf5370]

In CM you can get a pretty n ice place these days for 18K (I have 4 beds, 3baths, maid's room, front and rear garden, fully furnished hse in town for that). New 1.5 cab Vegos are going foe a touch over 500k at the moment (I've seen 2nd hand - 5 yr old ones - going for more!) - but if you want HP on one it'll be in your wife's name - If you put up 25% I think you get very low interest and pay around 5k a month - so, at 20-25k from your 45, leaves 20k for bills, beers and birds (oops, I mean, erm, out of pocket expenses) - it will not be a problem if you are not a fish IMO.

[chriswatson]

In CM you can get a pretty n ice place these days for 18K (I have 4 beds, 3baths, maid's room, front and rear garden, fully furnished hse in town for that). New 1.5 cab Vegos are going foe a touch over 500k at the moment (I've seen 2nd hand - 5 yr old ones - going for more!) - but if you want HP on one it'll be in your wife's name - If you put up 25% I think you get very low interest and pay around 5k a month - so, at 20-25k from your 45, leaves 20k for bills, beers and birds (oops, I mean, erm, out of pocket expenses) - it will not be a problem if you are not a fish IMO.

Hi wolf5370, sounds like a real bargain you have with your property. I've been looking on some of the well known Chiang Mai property letting sites and have across nothing as grand as yours sounds for that sort of money.

Don't understand your 45K/month breakdown though. Could you take me through what the "20-25k" consists of? Is this the 18k rental + 5K/month car HP?

And what is a "fish" in this context?

[BlackArtemis]

Don't forget the rampant ageism, a 40 year old will have a lot harder time getting a job than a 22yr old.

Your other options as far as teaching goes is 20-40k/month depending on the school and experience. However read up on all the hoops that they are trying to make teachers jump through before you set something in stone.

[Toosetinmyways]

My advice would be to try and and live in different places for a minimum of three months to see where best suits you. To commit to live in a foreign country that you have spent minimum time in is risky.( That's what I did). If you want to work, BKK is really the only option, unless you can work from your home or want to teach.

I lived in CNX for 17 years and thought I was set for life, but the traffic, smog, piles of garbage on the streets and of course the wangkers finally got to me. I am sure the rose tinted glass wearers in Chiang Mai will deny that it was like that. I moved to Hua Hin which is completly different to CNX but still has problems.

[Ulysses G.]

Lots of people hate Hua Hin too. I guess that you can just keep moving until your problems can't catch up with you any more.

[Mitker]

From my humble experience:

I'm definitely intending to take the slowly-slowly approach as many of you have advised, and have an initial "3-year plan" which I've been mulling over for the past 2 years.

Makes sense.

- get to really know the different "seasons" of Chiang Mai. The nice winter months but also the infamous smog period.

- a couple of years will give you the objective look on daily live in CM. The rosy glasses are the typical starting step. In the long term, several aspects of Thai culture make life unbearable to some expats (see other threads for endless list). Be sure you will cope with them satisfactorily.

My "plan" does not currently include purchasing or building any Chiang Mail property until Year 2 at the earliest

The property topic is indeed a major issue and should be investigated in the specific section as you mentioned it. The good thing is that you have already some experience in this field. But the amount of ugly stories we hear here about properties lost by farangs is just saddening and impressive.

The final rule is that by law you simply may not own land in Thailand, directly or indirectly. The rest is all about how the law is enforced and the tricks to circumvent it. It's about a lot of money and long term investment, meanwhile the legal environment (and thus the enforcement) is just as volatile as local politics. Kind of bet on the future.

I think there is a lot I could offer certain Thai companies, esp. Telco's and ISP's due to my business network in the "creative industries" in Europe & US, and could potentially do something "that a Thai can not do" due to this.

I would agree with a former post that CM is not exactly where deals are made and operations are run. It's in BKK. CM is rather just a market for this sector. But indeed, if the job allows you to work online from your place... One more advice: don't work without a permit. It's not just about fines, it's about jail (I know someone who's seen the police coming to pick him up at home after having been denounced).

Should we try out Thailand for a full year, I am hopeful that letting the London flat I currently owner-occupy will heavily subsidize our Asian existence, whereas staying in it without incomings will represent a major financial drain.

Right. But be sure to keep the flat long enough due to the job issue in Thailand.

45K/month living expenses. Looks ok but may vary completely according to your lifestyle.

15-18K/month rental costs. Fits with actual market levels.

invest in constructing five or six bungalows on some land we own on a Thai island; This of course would be a big risk and involve relatively massive personal investment and is something no doubt to discuss on Thaivisa's property forum rather than here.

If you go on with this idea:

Pro: projects costs and delays should be easier to negotiate in the actual economic environment.

Con: currently, tourism is deeply depressed in Thailand (economic slowdown, local political troubles, flu...) getting you to lower your income expectations. Around CM (road to Samoeng), you'll see an impressive number of resorts for sale. I stayed lately in different places where we were the only customers. I don't see the rental market being totally immune to this trend.

Good luck

[PeaceBlondie]

After one year on the beach at Hua Hin we came running back to CMai.

Life ain't an Excel spreadsheet. I 'figured it out' on a spreadsheet at age 55, for just me to age 100. HAH. Twelve years and 3 or 5 countries later, the spreadsheet lied. I changed. So will you, the wife, the kid, the economy, etc. Good luck.