Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[loong]

I aIways put down that my reason for wanting to be in ThaiIand is to continue my sabbaticaI. Which, if im not wrong, is an extended stay/hoIiday. So, the tourist visa doesnt faII under that? Then, why wouId the embassy accept my appIication? Its the gov/embassies caII on whether the appIicant is given a tourist visa or not, so Iong as the appIicant is being honest, so no need for raised eyebrows pIease just because some of us have a few back to back visas.

edit: Oh yeh, and i paid for my visa, thank you, and i am taxed in the UK..so give us a break!

I'm surprised that people here seem to have such a simplistic view of tax legislation.

People should bear in mind that paying for a visa, paying tax elsewhere, paying tax on a beer, paying VAT, etc, doesn't necessarily discharge you from other obligations that you may have to the Thai tax authorities regards a variety of other taxes, including personal income tax. That is, paying one kind of tax doesn't necessarily exempt you from the remainder of the list of taxes that you may have a legal obligation to pay.

Eek is paying tax on her income in the UK and seeing as the UK and Thailand have an agreement so that double taxation does not occur. If Eek is not working and has no income derived from Thailand, what other taxes that she is legally obliged to pay could she possibly be avoiding?

The taxes that I pay each month on my beer and cigarettes amount to more than a lot of Thai people in my area EARN. Certainly I pay more tax on my beer and cigarettes than most pay in income tax!

Those of us who stay here are not working, so are not obliged to pay personal income tax, but we all have to pay VAT and excise duties.

I would have thought that The very few that are working while here with a tourist visa are probably very low paid and would have no income tax to pay anyway.

[bangon04]

Tens of millions of illegals come into Texas from Mexico and the rest of Central America. Few, very few, are ever caught once in the U.S. They are usually charged and let go with a promise to appear at court on a certain date. Needless to say they don't show up. So getting into the U.S. illegally is quite easy. Getting into the U.S. from Thailand to even visit relatives is very difficult. None of my wife's relatives ever were allowed to visit us. Now, we are retired in Thailand.

So how easy is it for a Thai to get a visa for Mexico?

[tmark]

I aIways put down that my reason for wanting to be in ThaiIand is to continue my sabbaticaI. ........ Then, why wouId the embassy accept my appIication? 

Probably because they don't know what "sabbatical" means, haven't got a dictionary handy, don't wish to lose face and think "what the hel_l" and give you your visa.

[Sherlocke]

As ever Thai visa descends into racist claptrap.

Terms like "third world" apart from being archaic are bandied about here by folk who haven't got a clue what they are on about...

and as for....

"A tourist from a " devolping country" cant work illegally in the so called " developed countries " - the poster is contradicting them-self by that very statement.!

[ColbyCoombs]

Crackdown on back-to-back Tourist visa applications

Extended screening of visa applicants

Seems serious: "increased screening" appears fairly innocuous (but how does it operate? it's hard to prove a negative [e.g. I don't work in Thailand]). But the 'whammy' is on these two points, reinforced in the 'Helsinki announcement':

"Should ... the applicant’s real intention [be] concealed, the application will be rejected."

"the intention of applicants to repeatedly depart and re-enter Thailand via tourist visa issued ... in neighboring countries ... is considered as concealment ... their visas applications will be rejected."

I read these phrases as:

• We will reject your application for a new visa if we think your [real] motive for applying is concealed.
  
• Concealment is determined by repeated exits to/re-entries from neighboring countries.
  
• Therefore, if you have "repeatedly" crossed a land-border, you ain't comin' back this time (perhaps: 'unless you fly back')
  

Long retired [and not working anywhere], I think - after three pleasant years in Thailand - I see a chop looming; and I had intended to leave/re-enter on my "2-entries" visa later this month.

However, I'm often wrong. Advise, anyone? Personal experience with this new 'screening'?

[JensenX]

You should not have any problems re-entering on your "2-entries" of a tourist visa. The screening will supposedly take place upon application for your tourist visa at a consulate.

Different consulates have different policies and interpret the rules differently.

In Vientiane they will give you a tourist visa without screening right now, but they will possibly give you a red warning stamp (discussed on another thread here).

Keep your eyes glued to this forum for regular updates and reports.

[thaiphoon]

<<< Snip >>>

However, I'm often wrong. Advise, anyone? Personal experience with this new 'screening'?

Vientiane Red Warning Stamp Thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Warning-...ne-t300805.html

[Cobrabiker]

My little brother decided to early retire here two years ago. He came here on a tourist visa , not a visa on arrival. Hired a lawyer to help him with an early retirment visa......He was able to prove that he did indeed have the required 100,000$......he uses HSBC and they furnished him with a letter....He got his retirment visa in less than an hour......he is 36 years old so did not meet the 800,000b requirment when you hit 50.......They could have asked the money to be in Thai baht but they did not......

Guys come here and want to stay...pretty much for one reason.........I said pretty much, not all cases.

Hey Garret, I am below the legal thai retirement age of 50 too, can you tell me more, and which lawyer did your brother use? It would be really good to get a retirement visa below 50 years old.Thanks!

[lopburi3]

As there is no such thing as a retirement visa issued inside Thailand believe above to be fabrication at best - or illegal/invalid at worst. You do not legally obtain retirement extension of stay from immigration below age 50; with or without a lawyer.

Edit: Have read back all posts from the person who posted this and can find no other reference to this event but do note mention of 100.000$ which is not a retirement requirement. I believe he may be mixing up retirement with something else but without details of what stamp his brother actually has/had in his passport hard to tell.

Edited October 7, 2009 by lopburi3

[Lite Beer]

As Lopburi said. BS or something illegal going on.

[Cobrabiker]

This crackdown have nothing to do with the genuine tourist, they are not affected at all by this. 993.9 % of all tourist spend their 10 or 20 day's holliday here and go back home.

I can only suggest you are out of touch or misinformed as many genuine tourists have already been affected by the 3 x 30 day rule, then the shortening of the on arrival stamps at land borders to 15 days, then the 3 x 15 day rule.

I meet genuine tourists regularly in Cambodia and Vietnam that have been affected by these rules, and this one will be no different.

Thailand's loss of the backpacker and long-term tourists will be other countries' gain, there's already disatisfaction among the long-term tourists I speak to and it looks set to continue.

I fully agree with you. A lot of long time stayers in Thailand, are moving out to other countries, and Philippines is one of their favorites. Thailand is getting too many ever changing rules and restrictions and are driving a lot of people out.

Don't understand why they are spending so much money on advertisement to bring in tourists and setting so many regulations to drive people out, contradicting, isn't it? Or just being arrogant?

[Sherlocke]

There's a lot of political backgrounds to these regs - they are in answer to pressures from US etc who want to clamp down on "terrorism" and a general feeling or perception in Thailand that "foreigners" might take over land or businesses - not just westerners - the Chinese are greatly suspected of taking over land and business too. this insecurity is largely due to ineptitude in the Thai system that stems from the inherent corruption and nepotism leaving businessmen unable to deal with normal market forces and resorting to protectionism to keep their money and assets safe.

In all, the measures taken are useless and ineffective, just the result of an official trying to prove he is worth his job - which of course he/she isn't. This archaic use of bureaucracy bandaids to solve problems that aren't fully understood is hopeless

THey are not really aimed a tourism, although they certainly do effect it in both real ways and the perception that Thailand is unwelcoming to tourists.

thailand still apparently has a high rating amongst countries for their welcoming of foreign business and investors.

World Bank recently rated them "12th-best economy for doing business" out of over 180 countries

[RandyWhite]

A tourist from a " devolping country" cant work illegally in the so called " developed countries "

whats good for the goose is good for the gander

Agreed. Why should Thailand be so lenient on people who make aa mockery of its immigration and tax rules?

Because the people who decide such policies come from the elite and can therefore change them at a whim with impunity.

These 'tax farmers' and 'rent-seekers' are the ones really making a mockery of the whole idea of representative government here and they always have.

Thais and everyone else who works here - unless they're well connected, of course - are left in a dogfight for the scraps.

RAW.

[JosephA]

Well TM you have your say. Cheers!

P.S. Good implication regarding China! They are doing good, are they not! I think you Farangs are good people but sometimes you speak too emotionally, too judgmental (at times), too FAE at times. And yes, Thailand is not perfect in many regards:-

1. You have the choice to stay or leave without offending the natives, our home, our pride.

Cheers again.

Joseph Assarasakorn

Well said dbrenn & p_brownstone in previous post!!! As for tmark™,

When are Thai governments going to move out of the pre pubescent stage and mature into adulthood? I know it's a relatively young "democracy", but WHEN?

No one is picking on you, but when you start defaming the Country then move yourself to somewhere you are more happy. Don't just whinge, Go!

So criticizing a government is "defaming a country"? That's funny, thanks for the laugh. You must come from Communist China.

"It affects me, thus there must be something to blame.. right?"

So who should be doing the growing up, hmmm I wonder?

Usually if something is affected, there is a cause. "Cause and Effect" Stimulus and response" etc. Anyway, it doesn't affect me. I have a non b and work permit. It 'may" affect me in the future, who knows?

If you are wondering who should be doing the growing up, look in the mirror and don't try to repress people and their right to an opinion. That's what forums are for, aren't they?

[tmark]

 

Well TM you have your say. Cheers!P.S. Good implication regarding China! They are doing good, are they not! I think you Farangs are good   but sometimes you speak too emotionally, too judgmental (at times), too FAE at times. And yes, Thailand is not perfect in many regards:- 1. You have the choice to stay or leave without offending the natives, our home, our pride.

Cheers again.

Joseph Assarasakorn

Joseph .. the reference to China was regarding "human rights" and "freedom of speech" ... not how well they are doing as a country.

Are you Thai? If so, congratulations on your excellent English. (Please.. no accusations of me being patronizing .. I'm not , Jing jing)

Joseph, you're right about Farangs speaking too emotionally at times. That's because most of us come from countries where it is allowed, actually it's a "right"

I agree though that if we don't like it her .. then pack our bags and bugger off.

I usually try to follow the "when in Rome" principle.  

Edited October 9, 2009 by tmark

[goldentongs]

Why all the posts about how difficult it is to get a visa to another country?

What does that have to do with this subject?

I just looked out of the window, and yes, I'm pretty sure that this is still Thailand.

The fact is that people are/were actively encouraged to get a tourist visa from neighbouring countries. So people know what to expect. Then without notice, the rug is pulled from under their feet!

You can be doing everything legally. It is not against the law to be a perpetual tourist. So getting back to back tourist visas has been no problem and LEGAL.

I have no problem with them changing regulations, but they change them so often and never give any notice.

If they issued a statement to the effect that there will be changes made in 6 months time or something like that, at least it would give people time to make adjustments/arrangements.

i agree

whats all the fuss about, everyone hear know they chop and change regs constantly but there is always a way around, i am sure you may find its simply because and i am suprised nobody has even mentioned it (as far as i read) tourist visa's are FREE until march, so how much money must these consulates be losing of course they want to reject a few if possible then i bet , it will be, oh look it is possible for you have a different visa, and obviously one that needs paying for, as these consulates are losing a fortune, and this is probably the answer to all their complaints since it was announced tourist visa's are FREE till march

[goldentongs]

There's a lot of political backgrounds to these regs - they are in answer to pressures from US etc who want to clamp down on "terrorism" and a general feeling or perception in Thailand that "foreigners" might take over land or businesses - not just westerners - the Chinese are greatly suspected of taking over land and business too. this insecurity is largely due to ineptitude in the Thai system that stems from the inherent corruption and nepotism leaving businessmen unable to deal with normal market forces and resorting to protectionism to keep their money and assets safe.

In all, the measures taken are useless and ineffective, just the result of an official trying to prove he is worth his job - which of course he/she isn't. This archaic use of bureaucracy bandaids to solve problems that aren't fully understood is hopeless

THey are not really aimed a tourism, although they certainly do effect it in both real ways and the perception that Thailand is unwelcoming to tourists.

thailand still apparently has a high rating amongst countries for their welcoming of foreign business and investors.

World Bank recently rated them "12th-best economy for doing business" out of over 180 countries

again i agree as are we all forgetting how much money america has given the LOS lately and what do you think all the fighting is about, its all about the trillions of bahts from the states, the LOS has had a lot of changes and more law enforced all due to US requests

[tmark]

Why all the posts about how difficult it is to get a visa to another country?

What does that have to do with this subject?

I just looked out of the window, and yes, I'm pretty sure that this is still Thailand.

The fact is that people are/were actively encouraged to get a tourist visa from neighbouring countries. So people know what to expect. Then without notice, the rug is pulled from under their feet!

You can be doing everything legally. It is not against the law to be a perpetual tourist. So getting back to back tourist visas has been no problem and LEGAL.

I have no problem with them changing regulations, but they change them so often and never give any notice.

If they issued a statement to the effect that there will be changes made in 6 months time or something like that, at least it would give people time to make adjustments/arrangements.

i agree

whats all the fuss about, everyone hear know they chop and change regs constantly but there is always a way around, i am sure you may find its simply because and i am suprised nobody has even mentioned it (as far as i read) tourist visa's are FREE until march, so how much money must these consulates be losing of course they want to reject a few if possible then i bet , it will be, oh look it is possible for you have a different visa, and obviously one that needs paying for, as these consulates are losing a fortune, and this is probably the answer to all their complaints since it was announced tourist visa's are FREE till march

I think I've mentioned it at least twice in this thread Goldie... but I agree with you, I don't know why everyone else can't add 2+2 together either.

Edited October 9, 2009 by tmark

[bifftastic]

What is the reaction when u come back to Thailand then ?

No problem.

You don't need to go in UK to get your (Hull) Visa,

you only need to be out of Thailand.

Just out of interest, when a Thai Embassy or Consulate issues a visa, a non-imm 'O' or 'B', does it state on the actual visa itself where it was issued?

If your Visa says 'Hull' on it and your passport shows you having been in KL for 2 weeks surely that is a porblem? Or are Hull ok with you doing it from KL?

[tropo]

Just out of interest, when a Thai Embassy or Consulate issues a visa, a non-imm 'O' or 'B', does it state on the actual visa itself where it was issued?

If your Visa says 'Hull' on it and your passport shows you having been in KL for 2 weeks surely that is a porblem? Or are Hull ok with you doing it from KL?

You can post to Hull Consulate from anywhere and it's ok by them. The problem is that they will not post back to an address out of England so you need a local friend to do that for you.

[thaiphoon]

The problem is that they will not post back to an address out of England so you need a local friend to do that for you.

Actually, to be strictly correct, it is that they will not post back to an address outside the UK, being the geographical area covered by Royal Mail's special delivery (track and trace) service.

[sjaak327]

This crackdown have nothing to do with the genuine tourist, they are not affected at all by this. 993.9 % of all tourist spend their 10 or 20 day's holliday here and go back home.

I can only suggest you are out of touch or misinformed as many genuine tourists have already been affected by the 3 x 30 day rule, then the shortening of the on arrival stamps at land borders to 15 days, then the 3 x 15 day rule.

I meet genuine tourists regularly in Cambodia and Vietnam that have been affected by these rules, and this one will be no different.

Thailand's loss of the backpacker and long-term tourists will be other countries' gain, there's already disatisfaction among the long-term tourists I speak to and it looks set to continue.

I fully agree with you. A lot of long time stayers in Thailand, are moving out to other countries, and Philippines is one of their favorites. Thailand is getting too many ever changing rules and restrictions and are driving a lot of people out.

Don't understand why they are spending so much money on advertisement to bring in tourists and setting so many regulations to drive people out, contradicting, isn't it? Or just being arrogant?

No contradiction, a crackdown on back to back tourist visas has zero effect on genuine tourists. Genuine tourist don't need to stay for extensive periods of time on tourist visas. Whilst you could say that the 15 days you get at land borders had a slight effect on a very small number of tourists, the avenues available to them to get around that are plenty (proper planning, getting a tourist visa or simply fly in).

Apparently Thailand seems to think that there are no long term tourists. (I agree with that sentitment). You could always go to Cambodia, enter on a business visa, pay some cash and you're in.

[lazygourmet]

Smooth as a breeze...

Just came back last evening with my fifth consecutive double-entry tourist visa from Vientiane (and of course, non red stamp!)... And this with, on the same passport, numerous other visa exempt stamps, + extensions + re-entries permits and two other single tourist visa issued in Brussels & Penang.

I left Don Muang on Thursday 6am and back yesterday (Friday) at 7pm... a mere 36 hours!

Now, I just fell sorry -with this update- to disappoint the anti-tourist visa brigade

[Moonrakers]

You flew then? Maybe that was the difference, assuming that you flew direct to Vientiane airport.

[Yimmy]

My mate got his 4th TV in a row last week. No stamp.

[lazygourmet]

You flew then? Maybe that was the difference, assuming that you flew direct to Vientiane airport.

Don Muang to Udon Thani. (NokAir: 6am>7am)

Then, taxi to the border. (arrived Lao immigration @ 8am)

Lao driver was waiting at the other side of the bridge.

Dropped passport at 9.30am, was out at 10.00 am.

Yesterday (Friday) received it at 11.00am from, my driver, directly at the hotel...

No need to show my face... money talks!

And it was just because of a little bit wasting time at duty free shopping, that I missed the 1.55pm flight.

Back with NokAir 6.35pm and arrived Don Muang @ 7.30pm

[tropo]

Whilst you could say that the 15 days you get at land borders had a slight effect on a very small number of tourists,

How could you say this? What proof do you have?

It is quite possible that the 15 day land border restriction affects a large number of overland travellers.

[tropo]

Smooth as a breeze...

Just came back last evening with my fifth consecutive double-entry tourist visa from Vientiane (and of course, non red stamp!)... And this with, on the same passport, numerous other visa exempt stamps, + extensions + re-entries permits and two other single tourist visa issued in Brussels & Penang.

I left Don Muang on Thursday 6am and back yesterday (Friday) at 7pm... a mere 36 hours!

Now, I just fell sorry -with this update- to disappoint the anti-tourist visa brigade

So why do you think you didn't get a red warning stamp when many others have been getting them?

Do you think it may be because you paid an agent to get your tourist visa?

Could it just be luck? You're not the first to report NOT getting a stamp.

[Smile4u]

I got my 4th back to back too last week in Vientiane. No red stamp. But some got it.

Seems like a Lottery

Edited October 10, 2009 by Smile4u

[pooket]

Hope this comment isn't too late. Just got back from a trip to Laos. On Sept. 24, I went to the Thai embassy in Vientiane. I had no problems, and it didn't look like anybody else had any problems. The next day I picked up my passport with no problems. I got a double entry tourist visa for free. No red stamp.

I was amazed by how many people that were there that day. I arrived at 10:20, and I was #387! There were 180 people in front of me when I arrived. By the time I left, they were up to #450 roughly. And this is the middle of the rainy season! What will it be like in January? I was thinking that because it was so busy that day, they weren't hassling anybody...who knows?

Sorry if this post was too "on topic". Next time, I'll rant about Burmese-Nigerians that have infiltrated the MOE, which has resulted in them having the audacity to demand that English teachers here have a 4-year University degree. Imagine the nerve of these people! It's horrible! I won't have my child exposed to such draconian measures. Off with their heads!