Dual Pricing At Crocodile Farm (samut Prakan)

[Rionoir]

if you ask me, the rudeness started from you. Put it this way, as a reader your post read as sanctimonius, Troy's was quick-witted and brought a smile to my face.

Ok thank u for that assessment sir.

[Bukseeda]

if you ask me, the rudeness started from you. Put it this way, as a reader your post read as sanctimonius, Troy's was quick-witted and brought a smile to my face.

Ok thank u for that assessment sir.

You're welcome

[bkkjames]

Part 2

Equality

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal protection under the law.

Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

Measures determined by the State in order to eliminate obstacle to or to promote persons’ ability to exercise their rights and liberties as other persons shall not be deemed as unjust discrimination under paragraph three.

Section 31. Members of the armed forces or the police force, Government officials, other officials of the State and officers or employees of State agencies shall enjoy the same rights and liberties under the Constitution as those enjoyed by other persons, unless such enjoyment is restricted by law or rule issued by virtue of the law specifically enacted in regard to politics, efficiency, disciplines or ethics.

I am no constitutional expert, but am I wrong in assuming that it only applies to Thai Nationals?

Edited September 18, 2009 by bkkjames

[robblok]

I am no constitutional expert, but am I wrong in assuming that it only applies to Thai Nationals?

Yes i heard something similar that it only applies to Thais.

[lioness]

How can it just apply to Thai's, read the 3rd sentance.

[caf]

How can it just apply to Thai's, read the 3rd sentance.

Exactly.

the Law of Thailand applies to everyone here - including tourits and expats. eg drugs, defamation laws

[apetley]

Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.

[Bukseeda]

Why can’t I charge somebody more then somebody else? That is exactly telling me what to charge. In the free market you can charge whatever the market will bear, regardless of race, gender or anything else. Telling me otherwise is socialist claptrap.

TH

Perhaps another word would be discrimination?

This is a slippery slope, but what you are telling me is the government can dictate what I can charge individual customers, even if I know that a person will pay more for no other reason then I tell them it is more. As a businessman and believer in the free market, that just doesn’t seem right. The government is infringing on my right to run my business in the most profitable way.

that's why we need governments - to keep people like you in check.

[fiercesnake]

Having lived many years in the Philippines and now Thailand, and traveled many other countries. It is common knowledge amongst old timers, let locals buy the tickets or meals or whatever or to bargain prices while you just stay in the background. Many other countries are way worse but on the whole Thailand is fairly moderate in this regard actually! It certainly does happen in places like National Parks or tourist spots but luckily it is not endemic and usually a smile and a few words of Thai will get the same price in most common situations as everyone else. Yes DEFINITELY yim yim mahk mahk in LOS!

[Navalator]

Thai DL doesn't make you a Thai citizen... just cuz other places are too stupid to realize that (or just don't think 500 baht is worth listening to you ramble on and ruin their day) doesn't make it any different...

In the US many states have attractions which charge a higher rate for out-of-state or foreign residents... I don't know why so many farang think this is a Thai phenomenon or why they seem to think they should be above it. It seems a pretty normal practice to me.

I live in the United States and have never once seen, in 70 years, a dual pricing system for foreigners. Just imagine how irate a Thai would be to visit an American national park where they would pay 10 times the admission of a local. The cry of "racism" would be heard through the land. In fact, a dual pricing system in any American government facility, e.g., a national park, as compared to Thai government facilities, e.g., the Royal Enclosure, would be unconstitutional and therefor voided. The way to cope with this stinking policy is to boycott the establishment with the dual pricing system and inform manage why you are walking.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Navalator

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The Thai attitudes are very slow to change. It took major foreign pressure thru trade treaties to change slavery and child prostitution. They will not change unless forced to and even then possibly ignore the law. Nobody in the world is looking to Thailand for leadership anyway. I guess we should not expect anymore from the policy makers. Doesn't mean we should just accept it like Stockholm Syndrome doormats but sad to say our non Thai born opinion hardly matters. For that matter a lot of Thai opinions are ignored also.

[Garret]

I have used my drivers lisence and I have used my laminated Thai Tax I.D. with no problems ever. Croc farm, Dreamworld and a whole slew of National Parks.....

[Soutpeel]

Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.

Nice line....come up with that one all on your own ??...

[Mark Wolfe]

Rionoir:

In the US many states have attractions which charge a higher rate for out-of-state or foreign residents...

The zoo nearest me in the US charges more for residents from outside of that county.  I just don't see this as very uncommon.

What zoo is this and what are the details?

True, I have not lived in the US for many years, but I have never heard of different prices for different nationalities or out-of-state visitors. I'd be interested to see you name half a dozen with details. I'm guessing you can't. Prove me wrong.

Admissions booth at the Holy Land Wonder Park in the US:

Man: "Two adults and two kids, please."

Attendant: (Eyes the four of them) "You look like God-fearing Christians, that'll be 35 dollars each for the two of you... and are the kids under five? OK, they're free."

Man: "Praise God." (Family goes through turnstiles)

(Single man approaches the booth)

Man 2: "One please."

Attendant: (Squints, leans forward then back) "Just where are you from, anyway?"

Man 2: I am from Egypt, but have lived in the US for seven years. I have a US passport too."

Attendant: "I see, okay...let's see...(checks computer)...that'll be 175 dollars."

Man 2: "But the people before me paid only 35 dollars."

Attendant: "They're not Arabs. Pay or get out of line."

The two-tiered pricing is simply gouging the richer nations' peoples. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that before foreign tourists visited the crocodile farm in any numbers, the price was the same for everyone. When I was living in Vietnam with my Japanese girlfriend, I used to tease her about hiding while I bought tickets for something since there was the local price, the foreigner price and the Japanese tourist price.

It's a racist shakedown. There is no other reason for select venues to charge more based on race.

[Livinginexile]

Thai DL doesn't make you a Thai citizen... just cuz other places are too stupid to realize that (or just don't think 500 baht is worth listening to you ramble on and ruin their day) doesn't make it any different...

In the US many states have attractions which charge a higher rate for out-of-state or foreign residents... I don't know why so many farang think this is a Thai phenomenon or why they seem to think they should be above it. It seems a pretty normal practice to me.

I seem to remember in Australia national park pass's were cheaper for local residents then inter-state residents. However I don't remember any zoos that charge an extra fee for foreigners. And, I'm sure no hotel would dare have a two price policy.

The zoo nearest me in the US charges more for residents from outside of that county.  I just don't see this as very uncommon.

Furthermore... what's the alternative to charging Farang more?  They'd have to raise the cost for Thais to support the place.  So for this guy and his family, with all his bitching, it'd probably cost him MORE to take his family if they did that.  They sure as hel_l aren't going to lower the price for EVERYONE to the Thai level though.  So for someone with a large family I think this is a case of be careful what you wish for. LoL

Does your country also charge a higher price based on the colour of a persons skin? the same way Thailand does?

To me, this is what this "dual pricing" is all about.

Does your Country also go to lengths to hide this scam? For example when the Thai's write the local price in old Thai writing so foreigners can't see it?

I don't think so

Edited September 20, 2009 by Livinginexile

[Rumfoord]

Sadly, most of these places are crap and mistreat the animals to boot, so I have no desire to take my kids there. Problem is there ain't much of an alternative.

only happy meat is tasty meat?

isn't a croco farm mainly about croc bbq, croc steaks, croc gumbos and croc leather belts, croc skin jackets and croco leather boots?

how about visiting a chicken farm, a slaughterhouse or a dhabihah at the local muslim neighbourhood. kids can learn something, see where the hotdogs came from or the meatballs.

or are you vegan?

[elkangorito]

Part 2

Equality

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal protection under the law.

Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

Measures determined by the State in order to eliminate obstacle to or to promote persons' ability to exercise their rights and liberties as other persons shall not be deemed as unjust discrimination under paragraph three.

Section 31. Members of the armed forces or the police force, Government officials, other officials of the State and officers or employees of State agencies shall enjoy the same rights and liberties under the Constitution as those enjoyed by other persons, unless such enjoyment is restricted by law or rule issued by virtue of the law specifically enacted in regard to politics, efficiency, disciplines or ethics.

I am no constitutional expert, but am I wrong in assuming that it only applies to Thai Nationals?

Quoted from the constitution;

Part 6

Foreign Policy

Section 82. The State shall promote friendly relations with other countries and adopt the principle of non-discrimination and shall comply with human rights conventions in which Thailand is a party thereto as well as international obligations concluded with other countries and international organisations.

The State shall promote trade, investment and tourism with other countries and shall render protection and guardian to benefits of Thais living abroad.

I believe dual pricing to be a race based thing.

The even sillier thing is the lack of proper enforcement of such a dicriminatory rule. It's easy for a tourist to prove that they are a tourist. It's not easy to prove you are a local.

What if you look Thai & can speak Thai but you are from Burma...or any other of the surrounding countries?

This rule is clearly unfair since not every single person is properly checked for Thai residency status.

[tombkk]

Of course, Thais pay their tax to the government but you don't.

Why you expect to pay the same price with the Thais?

I didn't realise I was going to start up one of the 'Everything in Thailand is wonderful/terrible' threads, or I wouldn't have bothered.

I was just posting a warning, in case people might have not been aware of this, becasue as one of the other posters mentioned, the last time I went I was able to pay the 'normal' Thai price also by myself and wife explaining that I've lived and worked here for years.

Now just a few other comments to give some more information.

1. As touched on above I have lived and worked here (with a work permit) for over 7 years, speak decent enough Thai, and have paid a lot of tax over the years.

2. I am by no means the most well paid in my office, a fair number of the Thais earn the same and more than me, several much more. Why should I pay 5 times more to get in than they would?

3. Last time I went to a National park (6 months or so ago), my Thai driving license was regarded as enought proof that I am a tax paying citizen for them to let me pay the 'residents' price. As I understand it, National parks are paid for by the government taxes, but the crocodile farm is a privately-owned profit making organization. If they want to charge more for foreigners thats their commercial choice, but by not allowing local residents of any nationality to pay the 'local' price they cannot justify as anything other than a fleece the foreigner policy. To quote one of the posters above examples, would an 'out of state' Thai (from Chiang Mai perhaps), be asked to pay the foreigners rate also?

4. I just wanted to warn everybody that this is the only place I have been to that operates dual pricing that has not recognised my driving license as sufficient evidence that I am a local resident and under most (all?)rational and logical arguments should pay the local residents price.

5. In the UK (and I would guess a number of other countries) it is illegal to charge different prices for the same service.

5. I doubt that. Have you never sat in an airplane and realised that the person next to you paid a different price?

It's called "price discrimination" in Marketing, and it is perfectly legal. I can give discounts to senior citizens or to students, or discriminate by any other criteria (early bird, last-minute) as much as I like.

I have been to places in Europe that charge different prices for locals or foreigners, so this is not unique to Thailand. The Dali Museum in Madrid comes to mind. And why not. Welcome to the market forces of supply and demand: If anything it is too expensive, people will stay away.

In Thailand, watch out whether the higher price is for "Chao Thai", i.e. people living in Thailand and paying tax (for example National Parks; I pay the Thai price when showing my Thai drivers licence) or "Khon Thai" (Thai nationals) where we foreigners, who can actually afford it, pay the full price rather than the discounted price (for example Wat Phra Kaeow). Fair enough, we do make more money per month than the average Thai person.

I think the Thailand-bashing in this context is absolutely (!) inappropriate.

[kimamey]

How can it just apply to Thai's, read the 3rd sentance.

That's what i thought but I suppose you could be of non Thai origin but obtain Thai nationality. Then again it doesn't say just Thai nationals.

[tartempion]

do what i do, will not go if i have to pay higher rate

Exactly, I see I am not alone in Thailand to refuse paying 2x or 10x the price because I am not of Thai nationality.

Thus they are missing income from people like us.

Good business practice

[Norrad]

That's what i thought but I suppose you could be of non Thai origin but obtain Thai nationality. Then again it doesn't say just Thai nationals.

It's a race thing, not a nationality thing. Even if you obtain Thai citizenship you will still be charged based on your race.

Two events proved this to me. First one was when we took our niece to Pata Zoo, she is Thai/Swedish but speaks only Thai and has a Thai passport. The lady at the counter had to work out a new price for her that was inbetween the Thai child price and the Foreign child price.

The other happened nearly 3 years ago when I went to Lumpini Stadium to watch the boxing with a work colleage of mine, he is Thai/Irish but looks very western, he has lived in Thailand all his life. We were both told to go to the Foreign ticket booth dispite him protesting and showing his ID card.

[eurasianthai]

Of course, Thais pay their tax to the government but you don't.

Why you expect to pay the same price with the Thais?

dont be so quick mate, for the past decade I have paid 30% per month to the government as well.

Indeed, so did I but if the dual pricing was based on the fact that the ones who pay taxes get a lower price, most Thais would have to pay more than the foreigners working in Thailand (with a work permit...)

But usually showing your Thai driving license works to be eligible for the Thai rate.

[Norrad]

But usually showing your Thai driving license works to be eligible for the Thai rate.

Try using your Thai drivers license at, Ripley's and Mini Siam and report back. Also add the Grand Palace and Lumpini Boxing Stadium if you are in Bangkok.

[raro]

In Thailand, watch out whether the higher price is for "Chao Thai", i.e. people living in Thailand and paying tax (for example National Parks; I pay the Thai price when showing my Thai drivers licence) or "Khon Thai" (Thai nationals) where we foreigners, who can actually afford it, pay the full price rather than the discounted price (for example Wat Phra Kaeow). Fair enough, we do make more money per month than the average Thai person.

I think the Thailand-bashing in this context is absolutely (!) inappropriate.

I know enough Thai people who make more money per month than myself to contradict your statement even though you are right if you talk averages. Is the solution showing your income tax statement at the counter and get your admission fee calculated by some formula?

As for public institutions such as national parks I can somewhat understand that people who live in Thailand (and as a result pay direct or indirect taxes here) pay less than people who do not live here. In the present situation of declining tourism business I am not sure whether this sets the right signals. Also the factor 1:20 that I saw in too many cases is way out of proportion.

If privately run businesses such as the Pattaya Aquarium have a double pricing I call this a rip-off. The same service rendered to different people cannot cost a different price.

Airlines: you cannot really compare this. The more expensive tickets (for the same seat) come usually with more flexibility, i.e. you can postpone the flight, or the ticket is just open. Or you bought your ticket through an agent who enjoys a bigger bulk discount than other agents.