Does thailand allow duel nationality?

[seykota]

My wife (Thai) & I (Australian) have recently had a baby boy, I know that Australia allows Duel Nationality eg can have passport from both Australia & Thailand but does Thailand also allow this?

[samuisam]

Duel or dual?

[Indo-Siam]

Seykota -

Where was the child born?

I cannot directly cite a specific Thai statute on this matter, but I can offer two comments:

1.  I am an American.  My son was born at Bumrungrad hospital.  About a week later, I received his Thai birth certificate.  On it, I was listed at father, and my citizenship was recored.  On that certificate, he was assigned a Thai national ID number - that was later used to regsiter him onto the tambien bahn (house registration) at his mother's home near Mukdahan.  Using that birth certificate, I went to the US Embassy, and regsistered my son's birth overseaes.  I then applied for citizenship and a US passport.  After a brief period, I received his US citizenship certificate, and his US passport.  Thailand had nothing to say about it - and they are presumably not aware of it.  At some point in the future - specifically when he is of military service age, he may have to choose one citizenship over the other.  That will be his choice - all I did was provide him an extra option.

2.  I had lunch a while back with Thailand's former Ambassador to China and his wife - he is now a retired career diplomat who had served at Thai embassies in China, Mexico, Yugolslavia, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and a couple other places - plus he had served as Thailand chief delegate to ASEAN at one stage.  I asked him about his experiences with Thai citizenship issues (I was thinking of my son's case).  He told me that in his entire career, he had never heard of a Thai citizen whose birth in Thailand was not in doubt being involuntarily stripped of Thai citizenship.  He did know of cases of Burmese or Laotians who were stripped of citizenship after it was proven that they had misrepresented their birthplace.  When I mentioned my son, he indicated that there is no provision for Thailand involuntarily stripping Thai citizenship from a Thai-born citizen just because they gain citizenship elsewhere.

One other point - my understanding is that in Thailand, everything is "illegal" unless a law makes it specifically legal.  As I believe that there is no law addressing what happens if a Thai citizen becomes a citizen of another country, it could be interpretted that dual citizenship is not "legal" (allowed). But - in practice - this is meaningless.

I do not know anything about Australian policy towards granting Australian citizenship to children born overseas of an Australian parent.    

 

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[seykota]

Many thanks Steve, he was born at the Nong Bua Lamphu hospital.

Australia definitely  allows dual citizenship & you confirm other information I have been provided.

ta pete

samuisam, I assume you are bored?

[sbk]

Hello seykota, i was told by the us embassy when i got married that if we had children they could be dual until they were 18, at which time thai law required them to choose. that may have changed since then (ie allowing dual after 18) or could change by the time your child is old enough!

[Axel]

At some point in the future - specifically when he is of military service age, he may have to choose one citizenship over the other.  

As always good advice.

Let me add one point:

A decision should be made at 18 and is never really enforced.

In Thailand more boys apply for military duty than needed. So there is a system in force to not do military service. No, it is not in the law books.

I am not sure but believe USA allows dual citizenship (Like some European countries do) So Thailand knows, even if you give up the US one, you always can get it back, means in fact they do not check it.

[Thetyim]

I have done the same thing for my son.

The only difference being that he was born in UK and I got a thai passport and thai birth cert. issued at the London embassy and of course no problems in getting him a UK passport as well.

He nows lives in Thailand as a thai citizen and the thai government know nothing about his UK citizenship.

[samran]

My dad is Australian and my mum is Thai. I was born in OZ and have grown up there (well mostly).    

I have both Australian and Thai citizenship. I have asked both the Thai embassy in Canberra and Washington DC about this. Both have told me it is legal. I wasn't told I had to choose my citizenship when I renewed my Thai passport late last year (in canberra), and I am well  and truely over 18 years old!!

I know many Thai's born in the US as well, and by virute of simply being born there, they have US citizenship, although they have grown up in Thailand.

So, from my experience, having dual Australian Thai citizenship is not a problem.

[Indo-Siam]

Since no one has mentioned it, I will point out (with due respect) that the present King of Thailand was born in Massachussetts, USA - and on this basis, it is very unlikely that Thai government is going to act in a heavy-handed manner in relation to Thai citizens who were born overseas.

Indo-Siam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As the law stands now,you can apply for a passport for the child anytime as long as the birth is registered with Thai authorities. Thailand has no objections to dual citizenship as long as you don't have to renounce allegiance to her. We are talking about a birthright here, so no problems.

[chonburi]

When my daughter was born in Chonburi my wife was asked what nationality the child was to have, she advised that I wanted her to be of Australian nationality.  Her birth certificate was endorsed and carries that endorsement that sh is not a Thai citizen.  There was no trouble in obtaining her Australian citizenship and passport at the embassy in Bangkok at one years of age.  She still only has one nationality and I am unsure how she would fare if she attempted to obtain Thai nationality.  Any ideas?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Chon...are you still in Thailand or back in Australia ?

[chonburi]

Dr Pat, back in OZ, but having now retired am looking at possibilities of living in Muang Thai. All the usual queries being sorted i.e. land in who's name, bank balance,income etc.  My daughter has yet to finish schooling so no major time imperative.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Which State ?

[chonburi]

Western Australia- why? ???

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You can only register her birth and apply for a Thai passport at the Embassy in Canberra, or the Consulate in Sydney. They are the only places in Australia that registery facilities ie. births deaths marriages. First step, register the birth at Thai law, then apply for a passport.

[samran]

Chonburi's daughter appears to be born in Thailand. Will the Thai embassy in Canberra be able to register a birth of a thai child in this case?

[chonburi]

dr PP- thanks for that advice which is useful if we pursue her status.  Do you think that the age limitation i.e. 18 years as mentioned elsewhere in this thread is relevant?  I am still not sure that I have an understanding of the 'dual' citizenship rules from Thailands perspective and how this would affect my daughter's standing. That is also the reason why my wife will not consider Oz citizenship too, in case it impacts on her rights in Thailand as a Thai!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As it stands now, at 18 she needs to apply herself (obviously) if she is a little girl the parents can apply. Your wife can take Australian citizenship whenever she's eligible. Doing so does not impact on her Thai citizenship in any way at all. Her rights are in no way lessened.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Samran   provided the docs are fine, Canberra or Sydney can do it.

[chonburi]

drPP-Is there a Thai Government site that clearly states what you have advised?  In Oz one can access the Immigration site and clarify most queries, obtain forms, guides, raise queries by Email, etc.  If there is one, it would be good for my wife to be able to view an authoritative source in her own language because she won't believe it otherwise.  The local Thai mafia puts round all sorts of doom and gloom information about; 2nd renewal of Thai passport(I managed to fix that one), land ownership for Thais married to falangs, having to give up Thai citizenship to take on Australian, etc. etc.  Unfortunately my wife is an ex-fishing village and factory girl who often believes what her, mostly older and more 'wordly', compatriots say.

These things have probably been raised and answered on site many times before but bear with me I'm new to the site, thanks.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

True Chonburi, raised a lot. The Thai mafia are a lot like all expat communities ( look at this lot here ) providing lotsa misinformation. Look at www.thaiembdc.org and the major Consulate sites in the USA for info, such as NY and LA for   very good information available in Thai as well as English.    The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs www.mfa.go.th  is a    worthwhile place to look, as is the Thai Interior Ministry         site  www.moi.go.th  Like a lot of Thai Government sites    there could be more clarity, but give it a go. The Embassy    in Australia has a site but it is terrible and way out of date.  She could always talk to a Consular Officer there, in Thai    and ask specific questions 02 6273 1149, or write to them    111 Empire Circuit Yarralumla 2600. I can't guarantee the quality of the response. Now you've got some homework.

                                     

[chonburi]

drPP-thanks M8.

[monitorlizard]

I am very curious about the dual nationality and two passports as it relates to travelling abroad. Let's say my daughter travels on her US passport outside Thailand. When she returns, I presume she must use the US passport due to the entry and exit stamps.

I have been told from other people (Thais with 2 passports) that they just get an extended stay for 500 baht at the immgration. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I realize the Thai ID is the most important document but I am very curious if it is really necessary to obtain a Thai passport.I just cannot imagine her ever using it.

[samran]

monitorlizard, have plenty of experience on this one.

I am an australian and thai citizen, born in OZ. I have 2 passports and live in thailand now.

I only got my first Thai passport when I turned 17 and applied for it in Australia.

When I applied for it, I didn't need a Thai ID to get my passport as I never had one.  I just had to show my Thai birth certificate. I got my second Thai passport 5 years later when still living on OZ and didn't need an ID then, just the old Thai passport and Birth certificate.  I didn't apply for my Thai ID until I moved to Thailand.

As for travel, like your daughter, I would simply use my Australian (ie Western) passport to travel everywhere, especially western countries, as I don't need visas with an aussie passport.

As for travelling to and from Thailand, I always use my Thai passport when I come and go. It means I can stay as long as I like and I can work legally. Also means I don't have to take trips down to immigration to extend my stay.

It doesn't matter if you don't have a stamp trail in the Thai passport, as in many cases, you don't get stamped out of many countries these days (UK, US etc.). Plus, nobody cares.

So:

1) Entering Thailand: show immigration Thai passport and you will be stamped in with no restrictions on length of stay.

2) Leaving Thailand: show immigration Thai passport and you will be stamped out (the airline check-in however will want to see that you have visa to travel to the country you are going to. I just show them my Australian passport to let the airline know that I don't need a visa).

3) Entering and leaving every other country, use the western passport.

One exception to this rule is when travelling to and from Thailand via land. Always use the Thai passport as land border guards don't like people doing the passport swap on them (trust me, I have tried).

Doing the above has been working a treat for me for the past 15 odd years. No problems whatsoever.