P A D Protest Ends In Bloodshed

[JUDAS]

"When I was a child I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things."

The first part of the above quote describes Thai politics IMO, whether red, yellow, Thaksinite, Democrat or any other grouping. Looking forward to the day, if ever, they can all sit down together and attempt to fulfill part two.

[Plus]

The PAD lost the plot a long time ago when their backer's interests changed. They went from being a group of democratic intellectuals promoting a movement away from the former oligarchy, to a group trying to move back the hands of time to an earlier form of rule

It has always been an anti-Thaksin movement.

"New politics" proposal was born from trying to find ways to prevent Thaksin like abuse in the future - separate money and politics.

It was PAD enemies who jumped on a chance and trumpeted "new politics" as a reason for PAD existence. It was not.

[Credo]

I am sure it is confusing , Plus, because I don’t see the world in black and white (or red and yellow). I follow no one and support no one cause. I am certainly not a part of any group which is against the highest institution in the country.

Democracy is about a process that is on-going. Getting it right is like winning the lottery, it seldom happens, but generally it doesn’t go horribly wrong. It’s difficult to tell the difference between Bangkok and Thailand becuse the country is Bangkok-centric. If it doesn’t affect Bangkok, it doesn’t matter, at least in the eyes of the elite. Occasionally, there are a few crumbs thrown at the provinces, but only provided this strengthens their allegiance to Bangkok.

The PAD was largely a Bangkok based movement. They weren’t and aren’t as we have recently seen a peaceful movement. They were Bangkok people who were not going to crap on their own doorstep, so to speak. There peaceful rally made a physical shambles out of Government House and an economic mess after their invasion of the airport. They acted in a manner which leads one to believe they own this city and have a god-given right to all that it has.

Thaksin messed with that perceived god-given right and drank from the trough of plenty. For that he has paid the price. Thaksin threw more crumbs in the direction of the poor and that is where the loyalty of the red shirts comes from. He opened a Pandora’s Box which included a sense of political power. Pandora’s Box cannot be closed, at least not without force.

The PAD should have been thrown out of Government House at the very, very beginning . They should never have been given the idea that they have the right to take over and occupy roads or government offices, or have the right to interfere with the movement of ordinary people or government employees. When they did , it gave approval to the other group to do the same.

When the reds came to BKK during Songkran, they were largely strangers in a strange place and that has a lot to do with why it turned out to be such a mess. Rallies routinely turn into riots when large groups from outside a city descend on it. The last rally was peaceful only because the government and the city prepared for a large gathering in the manner that most places would.

When the PAD went to Preah Vihear we saw the same dynamics of violence as the Songkran situation. The only difference was the intensity, the numbers and the geographical location. The lack of planning by the government to deal with the situation caused the same breakdown in order.

Until there is an equitable distribution of power, we will see the same concentration of power that has made the Thaksin situation so scary. The point is to get the political system distributed to prevent the type of power from ever falling into any one person’s hands again. That includes taking it away from the elites—and they don’t seem so inclined to allow that to happen.

[Plus]

Until there is an equitable distribution of power, we will see the same concentration of power that has made the Thaksin situation so scary.

That's why PAD came up with New Politics proposal, because tradition election system has been subverted by Thaksin like types beyond recovery, and it's not only about vote buying, it's about having no meaningful choice, selecting one out of several candidates backed by the same interests behind them who will do exactly the same things when elected. Especially true for smaller parties who will end up in government no matter what.

[tenpounds]

IT JUST AMAZES ME THAT THE PAD ARE STILL ALLOWED TO ROAM FREE, THEY HAVE DESTROYED THAILANDS REPUTATION WORLDWIDE AND HAVE CAUSED HARDSHIP AND SUFFERING AMONGST THE THAI POPULATION, IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY THEY WOULD BE IN JAIL

[Scott]

Please don't use all capital letters.

[eurasianthai]

Quite a few yellow shirt people are just headless chickens

[Plus]

Quite a few yellow shirt people are just headless chickens

So, judging by your signature - was it a "discussion" or an "argument"?

[Yoshitaka]

Double standard.

PAD = good guys

RED = Bad guys

Or is it the other way round? I am not sure which is which.

[pnustedt]

Pro-Thaksin reds need to be acknowledged, but pro-Thaksin agenda should NOT be part of the political process - politically he's gone, finished, and irrelevant to Thailand's future.

Exept, that in the last few bye-elections in the NE, it is very apparent that a political candidate cannot be elected unless he/she has the endorsement of Thaksin in this region.

[Plus]

These days even PTP doesn't have any clear pro-Thaksin agenda. They couldn't push it through when they led the government, it won't work anymore, just like red revolutions.

The current battles in parliament have no connection with Thaksin whatsoever, they are just covering their own asses. But yes, if Thaksin endorsement wins elections, they'll get it. That sucker pays for everything - elections, demonstrations, phone ins, there's a long line of beggars outside his office in Dubai, everybody needs something off him. What good ever came out of all these "investments"?

Now he has lost a will to fight, and I think that "hope for a miracle" comment was dead serious.

[BSJ]

I am sure it is confusing , Plus, because I don't see the world in black and white (or red and yellow). I follow no one and support no one cause. I am certainly not a part of any group which is against the highest institution in the country.

Democracy is about a process that is on-going. Getting it right is like winning the lottery, it seldom happens, but generally it doesn't go horribly wrong. It's difficult to tell the difference between Bangkok and Thailand becuse the country is Bangkok-centric. If it doesn't affect Bangkok, it doesn't matter, at least in the eyes of the elite. Occasionally, there are a few crumbs thrown at the provinces, but only provided this strengthens their allegiance to Bangkok.

The PAD was largely a Bangkok based movement. They weren't and aren't as we have recently seen a peaceful movement. They were Bangkok people who were not going to crap on their own doorstep, so to speak. There peaceful rally made a physical shambles out of Government House and an economic mess after their invasion of the airport. They acted in a manner which leads one to believe they own this city and have a god-given right to all that it has.

Thaksin messed with that perceived god-given right and drank from the trough of plenty. For that he has paid the price. Thaksin threw more crumbs in the direction of the poor and that is where the loyalty of the red shirts comes from. He opened a Pandora's Box which included a sense of political power. Pandora's Box cannot be closed, at least not without force.

The PAD should have been thrown out of Government House at the very, very beginning . They should never have been given the idea that they have the right to take over and occupy roads or government offices, or have the right to interfere with the movement of ordinary people or government employees. When they did , it gave approval to the other group to do the same.

When the reds came to BKK during Songkran, they were largely strangers in a strange place and that has a lot to do with why it turned out to be such a mess. Rallies routinely turn into riots when large groups from outside a city descend on it. The last rally was peaceful only because the government and the city prepared for a large gathering in the manner that most places would.

When the PAD went to Preah Vihear we saw the same dynamics of violence as the Songkran situation. The only difference was the intensity, the numbers and the geographical location. The lack of planning by the government to deal with the situation caused the same breakdown in order.

Until there is an equitable distribution of power, we will see the same concentration of power that has made the Thaksin situation so scary. The point is to get the political system distributed to prevent the type of power from ever falling into any one person's hands again. That includes taking it away from the elites—and they don't seem so inclined to allow that to happen.

Thanks for posting Credo, I was becoming jaundiced by the flow of the argument!

Your post caused me to stop for a moment, have a sip of coffee and as I did I wondered if the only solution for LOS to embrace normalcy, would be to return to an Absolute Monarchy. I think we would all agree that the current situation is untenable, the people deserve better and the country is in no position to endure a long term battle between the factions.

Enough damage has been done, it's time to retreat to a position of safety.

[xminator]

Police finally managed to charge PAD leaders for trespassing on Government House last year. I doubt its a coincident it happens just after their little Cambodia border hike.

[Thai at Heart]

Police finally managed to charge PAD leaders for trespassing on Government House last year. I doubt its a coincident it happens just after their little Cambodia border hike.

It does appear as though sometimes the police have a concept of suspended charges in this wonderful system.

[manarak]

the wording used in the news is unappropriate, intending to sell a maximum of paper. this is disinformation!

"Shot in the neck" --> the article doesn't mention any guns at all, but yet someone has been shot in the neck? By a shot from a slingshot? The article text skillfully hides the origin of the wound.

"Bloodshed" --> the article just says two guys were hit by slingshots?

"Deadly battles" --> referencing the occasional clashes of thai and former khmer troops. I can't say there is a minimum number of soldiers to be involved in a fight so that it can be called a battle, but calling these more than skirmishes stretches the truth.

"four people were hospitalized"

--> there were 2000 villagers, 5000 PADs and ARMY... in any peaceful event like a concert or a sit-in in Europe or the US, there are always more than 4 people sent to hospitals!

No doubt, there were some wounds and some bruises, but calling that a bloodshed is abusive.

Edited September 26, 2009 by manarak

[Yoshitaka]

"Police finally managed to charge PAD leaders for trespassing on Government House last year." (from above)

No wonder they said that (most) Thai police are corrupted.