Need Advice....spouse Settlement Visa Refusal Due To Accommodation

[debsirn]

Hello,

Sorry for quite a long thread. I try to give you as much and necessary info as possible in order that you have full view of my case.

My wife has been refused for settlement visa by British embassy in Thailand .

Here is Embassy statement on letter from the embassy

“*The Entry Clearance Officer's decision

I have refused your visa application without interview on this occasion

because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilites, thatyou meet all

of the requirements of section 281 of the Immigration Rules in particular,

section (iv). This decision was made on the merits of this application.

However, if you have a previous application and immigration history, this

may have been considered.

*The Entry Clearnace Officer's reasons and supporting evidence*

Your application has therefore been assessed

based on information in your application form and supplementary

documentation. However, you have failed to demonstrate that there would be

adequate maintenance and accommodation available to you and your spouse as

well as any dependants without recourse to public funds. I must judge your

application against the criteria laid down in the immigration rules. In

making this assessment the creditability of your claimed relationship and

your sponsor's circumstances in the UK are paramount. You were advised at

the Visa Application Center that in order to put the Entry Clearance Officer

in the best position to make the relationship and statements in your

application, as well as adequate evidence of maintenance and accommodation in

the UK. You were also notified that a failure to provide such evidence might

have a bearing on the outcome of this application.

Your application states that accommodation for you and your sponsor will be

at X London road. YYY ZZZ and I note that you have provided evidence that

the home owner of this property is prepared to house you and your sponsor

until such a time thatyou and your sponsor acquire your own property.

However, You have not provided reasonable evidence in respect of this

accommodation or evidence that it is adequate or sufficiently spacious for

this purpose. Neither have you produced such as tenancy agreement etc.

Without this, I am not satisfied that this accommodation is secure, or hence

that you will be accommodated without recourse to public funds.

I therefore refuse your application.”

Regarding to accommodation, our initial plan is to stay with friend and together look for house to buy. Hence, we submit the following documents as evidence of adequate accommodation

- Letter from my friend which give his consent for us to stay in his house (This letter also state that I offer ￡90 a week to support utility bill)

- Property brochure when he bought his property which show detail of the house (number and size of rooms)

- His mortgage letter from bank which show him as an owner of the house

The instruction from British embassy is to submit additional document together with notice to appeal which if success will resolve the issue locally without an appeal hearing.

I plan to arrange tenancy agreement with my friend and take some photos of rooms in the house as additional evidence. I will also prepare a letter to emphasize that house is not overcrowded refer to Housing Act standard (size of the room is 110.92 square feet and only 2 couples and one baby will be living in this 3 bed room house)

I would be very appreciate if you expert can give me some advice on below enquiry please

1) What other documents should I provide to embasy to make them satisfied that this accommodation is secure and we will be accommodated without recourse to public funds.

2) How long normally it take for ECO to re-consider our application?

3) Do they notify us their decision before transfer matter to Court in the UK?

4) From the embassy statement above, does the embassy refuse to grant my wife visa on the ground of accommodation only? If so is that means they are already satisfy in other aspects already? My concern is that if we focus on accommodation aspect then they might refuse our application again because of other aspects.

5) Is it possible that embassy doesn't like the idea of two couples live in the same house and use it to refuse my wife's visa? Can they?

6) Have you heard any successful case which applicant plan to live with friend (like my case) or even a room in share house?

7) Will it improve our chance of success in appealing if I rent a property and submit a tenancy agreement or arrange tenancy agreement with my friend.

Many thanks in advance

Debsirn

[debsirn]

Hello,

I have uploaded the document regarding to accomodation for you to view.

I still could not get my head aroudn ECO comments that "You have not provided reasonable evidence in respect of this

accommodation or evidence that it is adequate or sufficiently spacious for

this purpose. Neither have you produced such as tenancy agreement etc."

The brochure show all detail of the room and size of the room.

I didn't provide tenancy agreement during submit application as we will be staying with friend. However, in his letter, he did mention that I will contribute £80 a week for utility and household bill. Isn't that sufficient.

Any other document should I provide to support my request for ECM to review our applicaiton?

Many thanks

Debsirn

Iain_letter_mod.doc

[debsirn]

Hi again,

I have already consult with some immigration solicitor in the UK. Most of them require +£150 +VAT for initial consultation then another +£700 +VAT to prepare for appeal notice.

As time is very critical, I would be very appreciate your advice....what is the best way forward in this case.

Many thanks

Debsirn

[7by7]

Unless it is one of the parts you blanked out, I can see nothing on the Estate agent's leaflet to indicate the address of the property, but as they usually do, I assume this one did.

What was the mortgage letter from the bank? Just a letter confirming your friend has a mortgage on a property, or a proper mortgage statement saying what property?

What details were given of who else is living there? If no one, was this made clear?

Remember, the property must have at least one room for your exclusive use. It's a three bedroom house, but if those three bedrooms are already occupied and you and your wife will be sleeping in a shared room, such as the lounge, then this does not meet the requirement of the rules.

Your wife has just 28 days from the date of refusal to submit the appeal, so you should get any and all additional evidence off to her as quick as possible.

Once the appeal is submitted her application, and any additional evidence, will be examined by the ECM who will decide whether the original decision was correct or not. If the ECM decides it was an incorrect refusal it will be overturned.

See Entry Clearance Guidance - Appeals (APL)

and

Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (AIT)

[debsirn]

Hi 7by7,

Many thanks for prompt reply.

The part I blanked out is address of my friend's house.

The mortgage arrangement letter from the bank show my friend's name, property address, mortgage term, outstanding balance and etc.

The letter from my friends did mention that only himself, his wife and his 7 month old daughter live in this house. Refer to Housing act, five people can live in 3 bedroom house.(baby is countes as half)

Would you be able to shed some light on the enquiry I put on the first post please?

Many thanks

Debsirn

[CharlieB]

Hi 7by7,

Many thanks for prompt reply.

The part I blanked out is address of my friend's house.

The mortgage arrangement letter from the bank show my friend's name, property address, mortgage term, outstanding balance and etc.

The letter from my friends did mention that only himself, his wife and his 7 month old daughter live in this house. Refer to Housing act, five people can live in 3 bedroom house.(baby is countes as half)

Would you be able to shed some light on the enquiry I put on the first post please?

Many thanks

Debsirn

1) What other documents should I provide to embasy to make them satisfied that this accommodation is secure and we will be accommodated without recourse to public funds.

2) How long normally it take for ECO to re-consider our application?

3) Do they notify us their decision before transfer matter to Court in the UK?

4) From the embassy statement above, does the embassy refuse to grant my wife visa on the ground of accommodation only? If so is that means they are already satisfy in other aspects already? My concern is that if we focus on accommodation aspect then they might refuse our application again because of other aspects.

5) Is it possible that embassy doesn't like the idea of two couples live in the same house and use it to refuse my wife's visa? Can they?

6) Have you heard any successful case which applicant plan to live with friend (like my case) or even a room in share house?

7) Will it improve our chance of success in appealing if I rent a property and submit a tenancy agreement or arrange tenancy agreement with my friend.

1) Have you provided evidence of how you are going to purchase your own house, i.e. have you got a job lined up in the UK, evidence of a deposit, a timetable for leaving your friends house. I think the rules are that you should provide your own suitable accomodation for your spouse. You can share with family of friends for a limited period, but you should have firm plans and the ability to get your own place within say 6 months or so. You should also state how many are living in the house, and that you have a room which will be exclusively yours and nobody else will be using it (bedroom).

2) If they have asked you to submit extra evidence locally before going to appeal, then I would expect an a decision within weeks. If they have asked you to do this, it looks hopeful and also that they are trying to avoid the lengthy appeals process.

3) I would presume that they would inform her as it looks like they are trying to avoid going through the full appeals process.

4) From what you have written it looks like the accomodation is the sticking point, which means the rest of your application obviously satisfied them.

5) No idea. I doubt it, but who knows. I think that you may have given the impression this is going to be a fairly long term solution and this may have made them reject it as you should really be trying to get a place of your own.

6) I've seen quite a few people returning and stating they have applied and said they will be living with family for x months, but I personally can't remember a specific case involving staying with a friend. It may be they require a bit more evidence when it's a friend rather than a close relative (Parents).

7) If you rented a small property then, yes. if you provided the tenancy agreement and details of the home it would probably get around the sharing aspect and any associated difficulties.

[debsirn]

Many thanks,CharlieB

I am quite confuse with the reason ECO refuse to grant visa for my wife.

I am Thai.I have live in the UK for 6 years and already become British citizen, but my English is far from fluent.

After read the letter several time, I think the reason is due to accommodation only.

I sent the letter to some immigrant solicitors. One of them point out that the reason which fail to satisfy ECO is accommodation. Another said that it fail because of three grounds which are No proof of adequate accommodation, No proof that your relationship is existing and substantial and No proof of financial support for you both in the UK.

I have posted exact wording from letter in the first post and would very appreciate other opinions on this matter.

Many thanks

Debsirn

[Eff1n2ret]

The refusal notice only refers to S (iv), so it does seem that the only issue is the accommodation.

But the notice also says this:-

"You were advised at the Visa Application Center that in order to put the Entry Clearance Officer in the best position to make the relationship and statements in your application, as well as adequate evidence of maintenance and accommodation in the UK. You were also notified that a failure to provide such evidence might have a bearing on the outcome of this application."

I don't know if that's a standard formula that they put in all refusal notices, but it doesn't look like it. Grammatically the first sentence is rubbish, but it seems to suggest that you were advised at the time that your supporting evidence regarding accommodation was inadequate - was it like that? What advice did they give you at the Visa Application Centre?

[debsirn]

Many thanks Eff1n2ret.

The statement you refer is the bit I am not sure.

Visa Application Centre act like messenger between applicant and embassy. They didn't give any advice at all. They only said all information is available in the web.

When we submitted application we prepared a huge folder. One section in the folder contain all documents relating to accommodation (e.g. Property leaflet, Mortgage statement, letter from my friend). VFA had a look and didn't point out that it is inadequate.

[joninthailand]

Hi ,

My situation was a little bit different as my girlfriend is Thai and I am English but she has been granted both tourist and spouse 2 year working visas many times so I will tell you what we included in our application.

I was also staying with a friend at the time.

I provided a tenancy agreement between my friend and I that stated that my girlfriend could also come and stay in the house.

I provided a copy of his mortgage information form the bank and a personal letter from him.

Details of my employment.

Details of our relationship, including my recent phone bills , highlighting her mobile number in Thailand. ( for her first Visa I provided information from 5 years before proving the time we had been together )

Details of bank transfers highlighting that I had recently transferred money to our joint accounts.

Also I provided personal letters from my parents to say that we could also stay with them.

So from your post it sounds like you have provided everything that I provided except for the official tenancy agreement between yourself and your friend including the fact that he gives permission for your spouse to stay there too. Make sure that he writes her full name in the agreement.

I also always write a personal letter at the beginning stating that I would like her to come and join me in England and saying " Please find enclosed all the documentation requested by the British Embassy for the application.2 and put bullet points of what is included. For some reason I feel that there is a psychological trick there to show that you have provided everything they have asked for... ( probably does nothing for the case though

hopefully something I have said may help you a little...I'm sure that with the added tenancy document they will grant the visa.

have you added bank statements showing evidence of money for a house deposit ?

good luck

regards

Jon

[debsirn]

Many thanks Jon for very useful information.

Can expert suggest what is the next move please?

My immigrant solicitor suggest to prepare appeal notice and send to AIT then wait.

Personally, I think our case is quite straight forward, as ECO kind of hint about the missing tenancy agreement

However, you have not provided reasonable evidence in respect of accommodation or evidence that it is adequate or sufficiently spacious for this purpose. Neither have you produced such as tenancy agreement etc.

and he also put "

If you decide to appeal against refusal of your application, The decision will be reviewed in conjunction with your grounds of appeal. If you have any additional documents which addresses the reasons for refusal, you are strongly advised to submit it with your notice of appeal, as it may possible to resolve the point as issue without the necessary for an appeal hearing"

Is this standard formular in refusal notice?

Alternatively, I would like to fill appeal notice myself and enclose supporting documents (e.g. tenancy agreement, his latest council tax, recent copy of the “Register Of Electors” , photos and etc) and post them to British embassy in Thailand.

What is your opinion on this?

Is it necessary to have immigration solicitor to fill appeal of notice?

Edited September 24, 2009 by debsirn

[joninthailand]

Many thanks Jon for very useful information.

Can expert suggest what is the next move please?

My immigrant solicitor suggest to prepare appeal notice and send to AIT then wait.

Personally, I think our case is quite straight forward, as ECO kind of hint about the missing tenancy agreement

However, you have not provided reasonable evidence in respect of accommodation or evidence that it is adequate or sufficiently spacious for this purpose. Neither have you produced such as tenancy agreement etc.

and he also put "

If you decide to appeal against refusal of your application, The decision will be reviewed in conjunction with your grounds of appeal. If you have any additional documents which addresses the reasons for refusal, you are strongly advised to submit it with your notice of appeal, as it may possible to resolve the point as issue without the necessary for an appeal hearing"

Is this standard formular in refusal notice?

Alternatively, I would like to fill appeal notice myself and enclose supporting documents (e.g. tenancy agreement, his latest council tax, recent copy of the "Register Of Electors" , photos and etc) and post them to British embassy in Thailand.

What is your opinion on this?

Is it necessary to have immigration solicitor to fill appeal of notice?

I'm not too sure about having an immigration solicitor but one suggestion I have:

Where does your wife live, if she's not too far away I would consider going to the British Embassy in person with all the new documents. As you are on such a short time scale for the notice, she will be able to hand it in in person and may be able to find out a result on the same day. Other wise it may sit with all the other post for a few days. I have always found them very helpful there, and if she is told to go and wait to hear a result at least the documents will be handed directly to an immigration officer.

the quote above sounds like a very big HINT that if you have all the added documentation you will be able to get the visa and no further back and forth will be necessary, the last thing they want is to have to go through the procedure of a hearing.

keep the faith.

Im sure you'll get the visa

[7by7]

It is not necessary to use a professional adviser at this stage, but if the refusal is not overturned and referred to the AIT then I would strongly advise you to hire one.

You should submit the appeal, giving your reasons why you think the refusal decision is wrong referring to the evidence submitted with the original application (if this has been returned then include it with the appeal) and including any additional documents you feel may help your wife's case, as per the advice above.

Refer to Housing act, five people can live in 3 bedroom house.(baby is countes as half)

True, and as you can see from Maintenance and accommodation this is a factor, with the proviso that you and your wife must have at least one room for your exclusive use.

[debsirn]

Jon,

May I ask when did your wife apply for settlement visa. I guess it was few years ago. On Monday, my wife went to British embassy to ask for further information and they don't let anyone in. They also said if she want to submit the document she can leave it with security at the gate...no record of delivery.

I think I will post to the embassy using record delivery.

[theoldgit]

On Monday, my wife went to British embassy to ask for further information and they don't let anyone in. They also said if she want to submit the document she can leave it with security at the gate...no record of delivery.

When you get to the British Embassy just say you are going to the Consular Section, anyone can go there for letters, new passports and the like, the visa section desk is upstairs, directly above the Consular Section - of course there is no guarantee that they will accept it.

[debsirn]

Many thanks, theoldgit.

This might be slightly off topic.

I need to prepare tenancy agreement as supporting document for my appeal.

I found several tenancy agreement templates in the internet but could not decide which one to use. I would have thought any template should do as long as it contain my friend's name as landlord, my name and my wife name as tenant, address of property, length of tenancy, notice period, date the tenancy start, amount of rent, amount of deposit.

Do I need to buy tenancy agreement from website that sell it or any template should do?

We are just scare ECO will use this against us if we submit tenancy agreement which is not abided by law.

[joninthailand]

Hi,

Im really surprised they don't let anyone in to the embassy any more. Does everyone apply through the post these days then. They used to have a system set up where by you could go, grab a number and wait your turn, then hand in your application. They would also conduct the interviews there.

Anyhow, that was a good 2 years ago and doesn't help your situation now.

With regards to a tenancy agreement I;m sure there must be free templates on the internet. And I would have thought that any of these templates, with all of the required information and signatures of both parties becomes a legally binding document. Make sure that you send originals, and not photocopies as this may give them an excuse to delay things further.

you could find a template , print it off and take it into an estate agent near you to ask them if it would be accepted by them as a legally binding agreement.

with regards to the other documents, make sure that you provide evidence of your relationship, anything you can gather, the most recent and the oldest photos of you together, bank transfers, phone bills ..everything you can gather. even print out emails to and from each other.

[benharris77]

Try the I.A.S. Immigration Advisory service. Check out their website, if you qualify for legal aid you will get a totally free service.

They are a non profit organisation and I am currently using them to bring my wife and baby to the uk after an initial refusal for a settlement visa.

[ridgydidge]

My wife's visa was refused on accommodation and work grounds. We have since appealed with over 70 pages of new evidence. I posted everything to my wife in Thailand and she took it herself to the emmbassy and left it with the security at the front desk and was given a recipit. About 2 weeks later she received a letter saying it can take upto 16 weeks for the ruling to be overturned in Thailand. We have now been waiting 6 weeks.

[debsirn]

Thanks Riddgydidge

May I ask did you use Immigration solicitor for your case?

On your wife 's notice of refusal, has it got sort of this statement

If you decide to appeal against refusal of your application, The decision will be reviewed in conjunction with your grounds of appeal. If you have any additional documents which addresses the reasons for refusal, you are strongly advised to submit it with your notice of appeal, as it may possible to resolve the point as issue without the necessary for an appeal hearing

I just wonder if this is part of their template

I am preparing supporting document to appeal for my wife...I am interested to know what sort of new evidence in term of accommodation you use for your case?

[paully]

I found several tenancy agreement templates in the internet but could not decide which one to use. I would have thought any template should do as long as it contain my friend's name as landlord, my name and my wife name as tenant, address of property, length of tenancy, notice period, date the tenancy start, amount of rent, amount of deposit.

Do I need to buy tenancy agreement from website that sell it or any template should do?

The best is a standard Shorthold Assured Tenancy agreement (google it) - the ECO should be well-acquainted with this. It must be completed and then signed by the landlord (your friend) and you plus witnessed by another. Any amendments should be initialled by you and the landlord.

In terms of what your landlord should also produce, get him to obtain an Office Copy entry of the Land Registry's record concerning his property. This is the bit that confirms by law that he is the registered owner of the property (subject to the bank's mortgage charge, of course).

[tjthai]

We have just submitted our new 'evidence' via hand delivery at the embassy visa section. We also faxed the AIT Appeal form over to the UK.

So , I guess we just have to wait for a letter now.

Has anoyone been contacted by more expeditious means such as phone or, perhaps, even email?

[debsirn]

My wife submit appeal form with new evidences two weeks ago using EMS mail.

Anyone know the average timeframe for ECM to look at appeal case? Is it possible to follow up or enquire about progress of our case?

[7by7]

Once the appeal is received then the post has a maximum of 16 weeks to prepare the documents and send them to the AIT. If the ECM is going to overturn the original refusal then it will be during this time.

Other than that, all I can say is that, like the original application, it takes as long as it takes.

You may find this page from the AIT and the links from it helpful.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You may stay with family or friends short term only however if the house has 3 bedrooms and a room for your exclusive use i can see this being over turned, remember you must qualify under the 1985 housing act which they use as a guide. The house looks fairly spacious from the pictures you have supplied Orchid of Siam deal with appeals also they sponsor this site say give them a call.

[debsirn]

submitted appeal 9th October, received a letter from UK embassy in BKK on 28th Oct and received another letter from AIT on 16th November so far. I hope to hear good news from the embassy by end of this year.

[debsirn]

Just to update this post.

My wife finally get UK settlement visa. Today, She has got a phone call from the embassy informing her to come to collect visa. We are both over the moon.

It has been long and difficult period but we get it eventually (12 week waiting for ECM to look at our case).

I have phone visa sections everyweek to follow up our case. The key thing is I get my MP to get involve with our case. Once they get enquiry from MP the case will get fast track to the top of the queue.

We would like to thanks all people in this forum for providing useful advices.

Debsirn

[CharlieB]

The key thing is I get my MP to get involve with our case. Once they get enquiry from MP the case will get fast track to the top of the queue.

No it won't. Your MP has only a fraction more power than you in reality.

[debsirn]

I think it might be useful to add final info to this thread.

For document about accommodation, you should submit

1) Tenancy agreeement. Eventhough you will be living with friends (or family). Embassy probably think if you do not get along with friend once you live together then they can just kick you out. Then you will have no where to live and might be burden to public fund. There are lots of template you can find in the internet. This is very important document.

2) Independent survey report. This show size of the room and the house you will be staying and most importantly show that house and room will not be overcrowded for you and your wife to live in. Note: Property leavelet from the Estate Agent is not sufficient. Contact local councel and they can provide list of indepent survey in your area. The fee for arranging this survery is around £60. This is also very important document.

3) Letter from landlord which show his permission for your wife to stay in this accommodation.

4) Lots of photo of house and rooms (Kitchen, Bathroom, Living room, Bedroom1, Bedroom2 and etc)

5) Land registry document. This can be obtaind on-line. It show who is the owner of the accommodation.

I think if you provide all those above documents then you will very much unlikely to fail in the accommodation category.

Hope this is useful.

[debsirn]

The key thing is I get my MP to get involve with our case. Once they get enquiry from MP the case will get fast track to the top of the queue.

No it won't. Your MP has only a fraction more power than you in reality.

Well, CharlieB, I only quote from my experience. I phoned the visa section everyweek. I asked them which case they are dealing with (base on date they recieve the Appeal Notice). My case was still quite far from top of the queue. But once they recieve letter from my MP, few day later my wife get a phone call from the embassy.

The officer at the embassy also told me that usually once they recieve letter from MP (in fact from UKBA) they will pick the case from the stack and submit to ECM straight away. There is a target date about 20 working day that UKBA have to respond to MP enquiry. This certainly speed up your waiting time if you contact MP early. I wish I contact my MP early.

From my experience and other in this forum. I found MPs are very helpful. There is no harm to contact them and request support from them.