Double Charging List

[cotambear]

Morever, discrimination in one field, legitimises abuse in others. If its ok to abuse farang in pricing, then why not in the legal system? Why not turn a blind eye to attacks/robberies on farang? Its ok to steal from them because hey, don`t we double the prices for them because they are all rich and can afford it.

[markg]

That sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me. One price for all, except x,y & z, so it's not one price for all, at all. A product or service has a value, which is simply determined by the price people are prepared to pay for it. That may seem harsh, but it's simply the way it is. Think about airlines/travel agents that double the prices of flights and holidays during the school holidays, simply because they know that's the only time families can travel? What about the motorway services that charges £6 for a crappy sandwich, simply because they are the only person selling sandwiches for 30 miles? It's not quite the same, but it's the same principle. People selling things for a price people are willing to buy them for. It's not new, it's not only in Phuket, it's simply the way of the world. You just need to use your common sense to avoid it as often as possible.

You are completely missing the point HooHoo. Different prices for the colour of your skin is WRONG.

Really - it is !

And that is what this discussion is about. Some businesses here think that a white man has more money than a Thai and therefore they are allowed to charge more. This is simply an outrageous assumption to make!

Dont assume that cos i m white that i am rich or cos i m Thai that i'm poor.

It's should be ONE price for all.

High season/low season differences, sales, promotions, happy hours - all of these are quite normal and they are applied to in the same way to all customers, IRRESPECTIVE of their race, nationality or creed.

It is really not a difficult concept to understand.

It is wrong !

I simply WILL not tolerate double pricing and always vote with my feet.

Let me put it another way, to those of you who don't understand this simple concept.

Start a list with how YOU would charge people from what nationalities if you had a business where you could do such an odious thing.

Here goes.

Americans.

Japanese

Arabs (but not Afghani)

Scandinavians (though not the Icelandic)

Western Europeans

Eastern Europeans

Thai

Indian

Pakistani

Nepalese

Burmese

Africans

Haiitians

Does this look offensively racist to you?

That's because itl is racist.

Are you geddin' it yet?

[awd]

So far there isn't one example of a listed price being higher for one race over another. Caucasian Thais pay one price and Asian foreigners pay a higher price. It's based on nationality and residency just like it is in our home countries. The main problem that bothers people is they get bored of bar girls and the UBC is so bad that they get sucked into endless double-pricing threads.

[markg]

So far there isn't one example of a listed price being higher for one race over another. Caucasian Thais pay one price and Asian foreigners pay a higher price. It's based on nationality and residency just like it is in our home countries. The main problem that bothers people is they get bored of bar girls and the UBC is so bad that they get sucked into endless double-pricing threads.

Where have you been ?!

Ok, RCA in Bangkok - that kinda studenty/young people place with a number of clubs in it.

It's all fenced off with turnstiles etc. BIG red signs all over the place saying, "FOREIGNER 200 baht entry"

Hello !!!!!!!! (You do get one free drink with that, worth about 100b though)

Wat Doi Suthep in Chiang Mai. Thai people walk straight up the steps. None Thai looking people are funnelled into a purpose built ticket office clearly labelled for FOREIGNERS. (i showed my Thai driving licence and income tax form and walked in for free by the way. )

ALL national parks have a foreigner/versus Thai price and these places are owned by the Government.

As for a list about local restaurants/bars/shops etc. Personally, i don't know of any, apart from the very old mom and pop shops who still think it's funny to charge an impecunious teacher with white skin more than the Hi-So fella in his million baht car..........................

[awd]

"Foreigner" is not a race. It is a citizenship or residency description. "Thai" is not a race. As I said, not one post so far lists a higher price based on race.

[LivinginKata]

Wat Doi Suthep in Chiang Mai. Thai people walk straight up the steps. None Thai looking people are funnelled into a purpose built ticket office clearly labelled for FOREIGNERS. (i showed my Thai driving licence and income tax form and walked in for free by the way. )

I showed nothing, no-one challenged me, and I just walked in the gateway. If the foreigners are stupid enough to obey the signs, up-to-them... Why should anyone pay to enter a Thai Wat. Yes sure, it's Ok to make a contribution in a thank-you box, but not compulsory pay to enter.

[WOOHOO]

You are completely missing the point HooHoo. Different prices for the colour of your skin is WRONG.

Firstly I must say, I find it very amusing if not slightly sad, that people think they are going to upset me somehow by miss spelling my forum name, so far this month I've been HooHoo, BooHoo, HooWoo and WooWoo, it pretty much sums up the mentality of the people concerned.

Will you please explain to me how the white owner of a yoga place is being racist, when he charges another white person a different amount to Thai people? As I said before, I'm fairly sure it's not possible to be racist toward someone of the same race as you. If I'm wrong please explain how. Using the phrase ' colour of skin' is also seriously flawed, because, other Asian tourists get charged the farang price yet are the same colour!

I simply WILL not tolerate double pricing and always vote with my feet.

Dual pricing is here to stay, so if you are truly going to vote with your feet I'll happily call you a taxi to the airport

Wrong or right, dual pricing does not stem from a contempt or feelings of superiority toward people from another race,so by definition IS NOT RACIST.

[paulfromphuket]

It is farang owned. his theory is that he wants to encourage more Thai's to go.

A Farang charging another Farang a different price. Yet another nail in the racism coffin.

No. He is being charged more because he is white. Still racism.

I'm fairly sure, that you will find it's not possible for someone to be racist toward someone of the same race!!

I have read this thread with interest and because I am so bored of ubc.

Now I can not quite buy this point that seems central to your well versed acceptances of the rip off policy here and elsewhere.

People of the same race have been demonstrating racism within their own for generations, try almost every country of Africa with fights of superiorty between tribes the Sudan comes to mind at the moment but there's too many to list, maybe the Sunni's and Sheite's of the middle east, or the cast system of India, then we have the English, Welsh(sheep shaggers) Scots(tight pricks) and the micks and lets not forget the German jews that faced a fair bit of racisim a while back. There are many other examples i am sure but it is very possible to be racist against people of your own nation.

Market forces are just that but I too will not pay a premium for the colour of my skin.

[billythehat]

You are completely missing the point HooHoo. Different prices for the colour of your skin is WRONG.

Firstly I must say, I find it very amusing if not slightly sad, that people think they are going to upset me somehow by miss spelling my forum name, so far this month I've been HooHoo, BooHoo, HooWoo and WooWoo, it pretty much sums up the mentality of the people concerned.

Will you please explain to me how the white owner of a yoga place is being racist, when he charges another white person a different amount to Thai people? As I said before, I'm fairly sure it's not possible to be racist toward someone of the same race as you. If I'm wrong please explain how. Using the phrase ' colour of skin' is also seriously flawed, because, other Asian tourists get charged the farang price yet are the same colour!

I simply WILL not tolerate double pricing and always vote with my feet.

Dual pricing is here to stay, so if you are truly going to vote with your feet I'll happily call you a taxi to the airport

Wrong or right, dual pricing does not stem from a contempt or feelings of superiority toward people from another race,so by definition IS NOT RACIST.

Quite so, DoctorHoo, but if one has been to Lalaland a few times it will not have escaped notice that the Thai love of products that will lighten (whiten) their skin is big business...’cos hab light skin bootifall ka’...dunno if it works as I’m a ‘White Honky Mick’ myself. Makes me wonder what sort of deal Michael Jackson would have got at Honest Somchai’s souvenir emporium, as he was, er, erm..?

[cecco]

This is a great idea. Then it is up to us to choose if we want to patronise businesses that discriminate and try to get more from farangs. If you don't care then keep on supporting them.

Why should i pay more? Just because it is more in my country? Because it is assumed I have more money then a Thai or all Thai's are poor?

Why doesn't the poster start.....

When you live in a place for despots and screwers, you are either one of the former, or one who is paying to live where they operate liberally.

Khon paa (คนป่า) = the wild ones, people in jungle

Learn this phrase, it might help a bit in life.

[WOOHOO]

I have read this thread with interest and because I am so bored of ubc.

Now I can not quite buy this point that seems central to your well versed acceptances of the rip off policy here and elsewhere.

People of the same race have been demonstrating racism within their own for generations, try almost every country of Africa with fights of superiorty between tribes the Sudan comes to mind at the moment but there's too many to list, maybe the Sunni's and Sheite's of the middle east, or the cast system of India, then we have the English, Welsh(sheep shaggers) Scots(tight pricks) and the micks and lets not forget the German jews that faced a fair bit of racisim a while back. There are many other examples i am sure but it is very possible to be racist against people of your own nation.

Market forces are just that but I too will not pay a premium for the colour of my skin.

O.K, I can see I'll need to take this slowly. For what you say to be true, an Englishman could say to another Englishman, 'I don't like you because you are English' or ' I'm better than you because I'm English'. Now anyone with half a brain can see that those two sentences are nonsense. In the example you gave above, either the two African tribes can be classed as two different races or they are the same race but are fighting for reasons other than race. It is impossible for them to be of the same race and be against each other because of their race. The exact same can be said for tribes of the middle east, where differences are mainly religious. Now when it comes to Britain, you are getting a little confused again. People from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales ARE of a different race. So for me to say 'I hate paddies' would be racist, but for me to say 'I hate you because you are a Micheal Jackson fan' to an Irish man obviously wouldn't be. (although it would be completely justified) This is where your, and many others logic is failing. If the English owner of a Yoga place charges a French man double because he is French, he is being racist. If he charges a French man double because he has a different price for people who are Thai, he is not. He has no prejudice toward the man because he is French, and therefor by definition, not a racist.

[pagallim]

Agree with 'Markg', bottom line is that there should be one price for all. If discounts are then offered through age/sex/occupation/etc, that's OK, but it should be up front.

That sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me. One price for all, except x,y & z, so it's not one price for all, at all. A product or service has a value, which is simply determined by the price people are prepared to pay for it. That may seem harsh, but it's simply the way it is. Think about airlines/travel agents that double the prices of flights and holidays during the school holidays, simply because they know that's the only time families can travel? What about the motorway services that charges £6 for a crappy sandwich, simply because they are the only person selling sandwiches for 30 miles? It's not quite the same, but it's the same principle. People selling things for a price people are willing to buy them for. It's not new, it's not only in Phuket, it's simply the way of the world. You just need to use your common sense to avoid it as often as possible.

There is of course a Hotel agency at 205/15Rath-U-Thit 200 Pee Road who advertise on the internet, sell the services of a large hotel on the same area, and when youturn up with your family, the hotel refuse to honour the voucher, and deny confirming your booking even though you have the hotels confirmation on theirown headed email, if you want to stay then you have to pay again !!after the drive down from Huahin ,we were knackered and after 2 hours dicussion we caved inand agreed to pay the extra, just to get a shower and a sleep, So I guess you could call that double standards

That's not quite the same thing. In this case you were blatantly ripped off. I understand your needs at the time, but I would never have paid them again, not in a million years. Did you ever get the money back?

Apologies. Not contradiction, I was referring to the practice of giving discounts to pensioners, students etc. That surely must be acceptable to everyone as has no relevance to locals or tourists (or at least, shouldn't have). Ultimately, those of us who live here and have time, will make their protest through refusing to trade with such outlets.

[markg]

Will you please explain to me how the white owner of a yoga place is being racist, when he charges another white person a different amount to Thai people? As I said before, I'm fairly sure it's not possible to be racist toward someone of the same race as you. If I'm wrong please explain how. Using the phrase ' colour of skin' is also seriously flawed, because, other Asian tourists get charged the farang price yet are the same colour!

I simply WILL not tolerate double pricing and always vote with my feet.

Dual pricing is here to stay, so if you are truly going to vote with your feet I'll happily call you a taxi to the airport

Wrong or right, dual pricing does not stem from a contempt or feelings of superiority toward people from another race,so by definition IS NOT RACIST.

Ok perhaps it would be easier if you got over the 'racist' barrier and used the word 'discrimination'.

Foreigners are discriminated against because of the colour of their skin, where they come from, due to the misguided assumption that they are 'rich', an assumption based purely on the fact they are from some developed country.

I believe that that practice is wrong, odious and needs to change.

As for getting a taxi to the airport. Not needed just yet. I vote with my feet, as many expats do. I know plenty of places that charge the same price irrespective of the customers' appearance. Those are the places i will do business with.

Times ARE changing. More and more shops, for example, now have their prices clearly marked up. I've yet to see a Thai complain in the 7/eleven that they have been charged the same price as a foreigner!

Dusty old mom and pop shops are evolving to this new practice or are dying as dinosaurs. The new generation can and will change this practice.

Discrimination is wrong. I dont do it. I dont accept it done by others to others, and i dont accept it being done to me.

[WOOHOO]

Ok perhaps it would be easier if you got over the 'racist' barrier

I'll get over the racist barrier when people stop, wrongly calling dual pricing racist. The fact that people can't understand what's racist and what isn't, is why people make such a big deal out of this. The problems I have with dual pricing, are people calling it racist when it isn't. People making it sound like all Thais are horrible money grabbers. People who think they can travel to the other side of the world, get a two bit job teaching English and then think they have the right to change the way the country operates because they have a work permit. People who don't accept that the good things about living here out weigh the bad 10 fold, and do nothing but moan about how unfortunate they are because they have only got enough money to buy a moped and all these rich Thai people have got flashy cars.

Foreigners are discriminated against because of the colour of their skin

Said it many times before, yet still no body has explained why I'm wrong, and this statement is right. Koreans and Japanese pay same tourist prices, so the colour of skin completely irrelevant. Yet another over used ,completely inaccurate statement that is the basis of most peoples argument.

where they come from,

Same as above, not relevant in the slightest. The bloke in the ticket office at the zoo couldn't give a monkeys if you were from Pluto. You're not Thai and that's all he cares about.

due to the misguided assumption that they are 'rich', an assumption based purely on the fact they are from some developed country.

How misguided an assumption is that really. You have the money to stop working in your own country, jump on a plane and come on holiday to another country. Something that the vast majority of Thais could only dream of. Then you have people who do the same, except they don't go home again, they stay here indefinitely without the need to work. Is the assumption that we are rich compared to them really that misguided. As for the 'I can only afford a moped' lot, you should have thought about that before you decided to live and work here. Stop waving your work permit in the air like anybody gives a sh*t. You made the choice, live with it.

As for getting a taxi to the airport. Not needed just yet. I vote with my feet, as many expats do. I know plenty of places that charge the same price irrespective of the customers' appearance. Those are the places i will do business with. .

Exactly, so what is the problem. If it was only tourists on this thread it would make a lot more sense. Why residents are so bothered about something that they are happy to admit doesn't affect them is beyond me, and if it does affect them, as I have said before, you are obviously not that bright.

To sum up finally, because although I have enjoyed this thread, my posts per day ratio is getting higher than I like it to be, so I will leave it here. I have never said that I think dual pricing is a good thing. I simply find it annoying when people get there facts wrong about it being racist. I think racism is deplorable, so I don't think the word should be thrown around lightly. I find it annoying when people make it sound like all Thais are greedy and deceitful. I find it strange how people could want to live somewhere that they aren't particularly keen on the locals. I find it annoying that people talk as if there is nothing that can be done about it when all you need to do is be selective where you shop, problem solved. I find it most annoying of all that people have such delusions of grandeur. This is not your country and you need to act as if you are aware of that fact, not strut around, making your demands, as if you were somebody important.

[Peterocket]

Ok perhaps it would be easier if you got over the 'racist' barrier

I'll get over the racist barrier when people stop, wrongly calling dual pricing racist. The fact that people can't understand what's racist and what isn't, is why people make such a big deal out of this. The problems I have with dual pricing, are people calling it racist when it isn't. People making it sound like all Thais are horrible money grabbers. People who think they can travel to the other side of the world, get a two bit job teaching English and then think they have the right to change the way the country operates because they have a work permit. People who don't accept that the good things about living here out weigh the bad 10 fold, and do nothing but moan about how unfortunate they are because they have only got enough money to buy a moped and all these rich Thai people have got flashy cars.

Foreigners are discriminated against because of the colour of their skin

Said it many times before, yet still no body has explained why I'm wrong, and this statement is right. Koreans and Japanese pay same tourist prices, so the colour of skin completely irrelevant. Yet another over used ,completely inaccurate statement that is the basis of most peoples argument.

where they come from,

Same as above, not relevant in the slightest. The bloke in the ticket office at the zoo couldn't give a monkeys if you were from Pluto. You're not Thai and that's all he cares about.

due to the misguided assumption that they are 'rich', an assumption based purely on the fact they are from some developed country.

How misguided an assumption is that really. You have the money to stop working in your own country, jump on a plane and come on holiday to another country. Something that the vast majority of Thais could only dream of. Then you have people who do the same, except they don't go home again, they stay here indefinitely without the need to work. Is the assumption that we are rich compared to them really that misguided. As for the 'I can only afford a moped' lot, you should have thought about that before you decided to live and work here. Stop waving your work permit in the air like anybody gives a sh*t. You made the choice, live with it.

As for getting a taxi to the airport. Not needed just yet. I vote with my feet, as many expats do. I know plenty of places that charge the same price irrespective of the customers' appearance. Those are the places i will do business with. .

Exactly, so what is the problem. If it was only tourists on this thread it would make a lot more sense. Why residents are so bothered about something that they are happy to admit doesn't affect them is beyond me, and if it does affect them, as I have said before, you are obviously not that bright.

To sum up finally, because although I have enjoyed this thread, my posts per day ratio is getting higher than I like it to be, so I will leave it here. I have never said that I think dual pricing is a good thing. I simply find it annoying when people get there facts wrong about it being racist. I think racism is deplorable, so I don't think the word should be thrown around lightly. I find it annoying when people make it sound like all Thais are greedy and deceitful. I find it strange how people could want to live somewhere that they aren't particularly keen on the locals. I find it annoying that people talk as if there is nothing that can be done about it when all you need to do is be selective where you shop, problem solved. I find it most annoying of all that people have such delusions of grandeur. This is not your country and you need to act as if you are aware of that fact, not strut around, making your demands, as if you were somebody important.

In my opinion if you charge someone a price based on what colour their skin is then it is racism. It doesnt matter what colour the person doing the charging is.

You are charging them based on their race...therefore racism....

Quite a simple philosophy, im not sure how everyone gets confused

[WOOHOO]

In my opinion if you charge someone a price based on what colour their skin is then it is racism. It doesnt matter what colour the person doing the charging is.

You are charging them based on their race...therefore racism....

Quite a simple philosophy, im not sure how everyone gets confused

I know I said that was my final post but I need to make one more just to say this: AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Thank you I feel much better now.

By your logic, if I punch a black man in the face, it 100% has to be a racist attack because I am white and he is black. WRONG WRONG WRONG. If I punched the bloke in the face because he stole my car, or because he pinched my wifes bum, or for no other reason than I'm a <deleted> and fancied punching someone, then it WAS NOT A RACIST ATTACK. The fact that he was black and I am white isn't relevant to the incident. How can your opinions on dual pricing be taken seriously when you have the logic of a six year old.

[LivinLOS]

Ok perhaps it would be easier if you got over the 'racist' barrier

I'll get over the racist barrier when people stop, wrongly calling dual pricing racist. The fact that people can't understand what's racist and what isn't, is why people make such a big deal out of this. The problems I have with dual pricing, are people calling it racist when it isn't.

Then what is it when discriminatory prices are given based on race ??

My mates Lao GF always gets the discounted price, shes not a Thai or a local. Shes just of asian race.

Commonly most Asian races who look vaguely Thai get given the preferential price no matter where they live, what their nationality or income.

A non Asian race person who has lived here a decade or so will get given the high price.

Doesnt matter if you live here, pay taxes here, have been resident here or even have citizenship here. If your not of Asian appearance you will get given the high price, sometimes speaking Thai, showing local address registration, etc can swing it, sometimes. But this is a racist policy, as its not done based on residency or localism as you pretend. Its also not done on wealth or ability to pay as a multi millionaire Thai will still get the discount while a 10 dollar a day backpacker will get the full price.

Go to Malaysia and they have similar but non racist systems. Many attractions have 2 prices, show your local resident ID card and Malay (Indian Chinese or ethnic) or Caucasian you pay the low price, thats not racist, its localist, fair enough.. They have a system and apply it equally. When my GF went into the attractions she was asked for her residents card not "are you malay" in Malaysian as the only test. No local ID card pay full price.

[Curt1591]

In my opinion if you charge someone a price based on what colour their skin is then it is racism. It doesnt matter what colour the person doing the charging is.

You are charging them based on their race...therefore racism....

Quite a simple philosophy, im not sure how everyone gets confused

I know I said that was my final post but I need to make one more just to say this: AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Thank you I feel much better now.

By your logic, if I punch a black man in the face, it 100% has to be a racist attack because I am white and he is black. WRONG WRONG WRONG. If I punched the bloke in the face because he stole my car, or because he pinched my wifes bum, or for no other reason than I'm a <deleted> and fancied punching someone, then it WAS NOT A RACIST ATTACK. The fact that he was black and I am white isn't relevant to the incident. How can your opinions on dual pricing be taken seriously when you have the logic of a six year old.

The original premise is "charging them based on their race".

Your premise would be simply "charging them".

The basis for the dual pricing is nationality, which can/might be considered race, which is discrimination based on "race", aka "racism".

If Thais simply charged, base on a whim, it would be different.

The reason for the racism may not be malevolent, but it's racism, just the same.

[LivinLOS]

due to the misguided assumption that they are 'rich', an assumption based purely on the fact they are from some developed country.

How misguided an assumption is that really. You have the money to stop working in your own country, jump on a plane and come on holiday to another country. Something that the vast majority of Thais could only dream of. Then you have people who do the same, except they don't go home again, they stay here indefinitely without the need to work. Is the assumption that we are rich compared to them really that misguided. As for the 'I can only afford a moped' lot, you should have thought about that before you decided to live and work here. Stop waving your work permit in the air like anybody gives a sh*t. You made the choice, live with it.

I am not saying its an incorrect assumption.. I am saying its a racist policy when a Thai of similar wealth doesnt pay that price. Its a basic 'fairness' in treating people equally.

For me its not the price, I commonly pay many multiples of the 'thai rate' to have farangs do work on my stuff. Its just easier to be told the truth (learnt through bitter and expensive experience), its a value added that I am very willing to pay for. But when 2 people of the same residency, the same wealth, the same income both are charged different prices because one is a different race to the other.. Its racist !! To say its not is head in the sand stuff.

For me its not a big deal, I can insulate myself from the things I dont like fairly easily.. But dont expect me to be happy about racism or blame me for choosing my friends based on who is racist towards me or not.

[LivinLOS]

The original premise is "charging them based on their race".

Your premise would be simply "charging them".

The basis for the dual pricing is nationality, which can/might be considered race, which is discrimination based on "race", aka "racism".

If Thais simply charged, base on a whim, it would be different.

The reason for the racism may not be malevolent, but it's racism, just the same.

No it isnt..

If they are Lao and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Burmese and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Malay and speak Thai they pay local rate.. But if they are not asian they pay the higher rate.

Its the assumption that 'we can afford it' and that assumption is re-enforced by plane loads of tourists arriving weekly throwing thier holiday money around. Its a case and effect issue when you live in a tourist economy of a country that doesnt have equal treatment for all people under law.

But what we seem to miss talking about the treatment of Caucasians as racist is that Thais are in general pretty racist, they are not even shy about it.. They havent reached the stage where racial prejudice and ignorance is considered a bad thing.. If you dont believe me try going around with a black mate, or even harder a dark skinned indian mate, etc etc.. The Thai dislike of dark skin extends far beyond just beauty product adverts. I used to have 2 good mates from London come over a lot, great guys, generous with their cash, out for a good time.. Some of the things said and done in front of them, some of the attitudes were not nice things to witness. I know after few years of visits it got too much and I doubt I will see at least one of them here plenty of places he can go party where people are not pulling faces and speaking shit to him.

[markg]

Definitions.

In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment.

Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, although anyone may be discriminated against on an ethnic or cultural basis, independently of their somatic differences.

According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.

The concept that discrimination can be based on "race" presupposes the existence of "race" itself. However, the US Government's Human Genome Project has announced that the most complete mapping of human DNA to date indicates that there is no distinct genetic basis to racial types.[2] Based on this evidence, "racial characteristics" logically cannot exist either, such as group differences in eye color or human hair color.

According to the Human Genome Project, skin color does exist as a matter of science.[2] So, that which is commonly referred to as "racism" could be more scientifically referred to as "skin color-aroused discrimination". The term "skin color aroused discrimination" has the benefit that it is based on verifiable science, is not based on disproved notions of science, and does not perpetuate a false belief in the disproved concept of biological "race".[2]

(Source Wikipedia)

So there you have it. DISCRIMINATING against someone based upon the way they look IS racist, or a 'skin colour-aroused discrimination"

And HoHoo, if you hit a black man, it is NOT a racist attack, but if you called him a n1gger whilst doing so then it would possibly be.

I see you subscribe to the erroneous theory that a Westerner is 'rich' because he can afford to have a 2 week holiday, jump on a plane and come here to spend all his lovely money. Have you considered that that Westerner is actually poor BECAUSE he saved up for 12 months and spent ALL his money to come here. When he gets back, he is poor !! Not still rich. Frankly, it is asinine to draw a conclusion that because someone who comes here by plane is still rich! For all you know, his holiday budget may be 500baht a day after he has paid for his flight and hotel - but by your conclusion, it is ok to double charge him because he 'must be rich'

Amazing logic!

[JiveTalker]

Ok perhaps it would be easier if you got over the 'racist' barrier

I'll get over the racist barrier when people stop, wrongly calling dual pricing racist. The fact that people can't understand what's racist and what isn't, is why people make such a big deal out of this. The problems I have with dual pricing, are people calling it racist when it isn't. People making it sound like all Thais are horrible money grabbers. People who think they can travel to the other side of the world, get a two bit job teaching English and then think they have the right to change the way the country operates because they have a work permit. People who don't accept that the good things about living here out weigh the bad 10 fold, and do nothing but moan about how unfortunate they are because they have only got enough money to buy a moped and all these rich Thai people have got flashy cars.

Foreigners are discriminated against because of the colour of their skin

Said it many times before, yet still no body has explained why I'm wrong, and this statement is right. Koreans and Japanese pay same tourist prices, so the colour of skin completely irrelevant. Yet another over used ,completely inaccurate statement that is the basis of most peoples argument.

where they come from,

Same as above, not relevant in the slightest. The bloke in the ticket office at the zoo couldn't give a monkeys if you were from Pluto. You're not Thai and that's all he cares about.

due to the misguided assumption that they are 'rich', an assumption based purely on the fact they are from some developed country.

How misguided an assumption is that really. You have the money to stop working in your own country, jump on a plane and come on holiday to another country. Something that the vast majority of Thais could only dream of. Then you have people who do the same, except they don't go home again, they stay here indefinitely without the need to work. Is the assumption that we are rich compared to them really that misguided. As for the 'I can only afford a moped' lot, you should have thought about that before you decided to live and work here. Stop waving your work permit in the air like anybody gives a sh*t. You made the choice, live with it.

As for getting a taxi to the airport. Not needed just yet. I vote with my feet, as many expats do. I know plenty of places that charge the same price irrespective of the customers' appearance. Those are the places i will do business with. .

Exactly, so what is the problem. If it was only tourists on this thread it would make a lot more sense. Why residents are so bothered about something that they are happy to admit doesn't affect them is beyond me, and if it does affect them, as I have said before, you are obviously not that bright.

To sum up finally, because although I have enjoyed this thread, my posts per day ratio is getting higher than I like it to be, so I will leave it here. I have never said that I think dual pricing is a good thing. I simply find it annoying when people get there facts wrong about it being racist. I think racism is deplorable, so I don't think the word should be thrown around lightly. I find it annoying when people make it sound like all Thais are greedy and deceitful. I find it strange how people could want to live somewhere that they aren't particularly keen on the locals. I find it annoying that people talk as if there is nothing that can be done about it when all you need to do is be selective where you shop, problem solved. I find it most annoying of all that people have such delusions of grandeur. This is not your country and you need to act as if you are aware of that fact, not strut around, making your demands, as if you were somebody important.

It may not be my country. I live here, work here and I will speak out if I feel wronged. Dual pricing is racist, and despicable. Most Thai people disagree with it. Only a few unscrupulous people try to get away with it. I won't accept it and hope others will do the same - and by the way, I don't strut.

I've said it before, Thai friends have been utterly embarrased by this practice. I really don't understand how anyone could justify this. It's incredible, the lengths some people go to prove to others how "Thai" they really are.

Edited November 6, 2009 by JiveTalker

[awd]

Those of us who don't complain about dual-pricing are probably not paying it. We have driver's licenses, residency, Thai citizenship or just plain good karma and don't get caught out enough on it to really change our lives. To the less karmically fortunate, our condolences.

[billythehat]

Its the assumption that 'we can afford it' and that assumption is re-enforced by plane loads of tourists arriving weekly throwing thier holiday money around. Its a case and effect issue when you live in a tourist economy of a country that doesnt have equal treatment for all people under law.

But what we seem to miss talking about the treatment of Caucasians as racist is that Thais are in general pretty racist, they are not even shy about it.. They havent reached the stage where racial prejudice and ignorance is considered a bad thing..

.....mmmm...this would appear to be a fair summation to this thread. Mr LOS tells of the treatment meeted out to his mates, and I can concur that it certainly wears ya down after a while, ocassionaly bordering on resentment, aye, a time to go and a time to leave..

[cotambear]

I was present when a bar owner friend was talking to a thai builder. When they started to discuss price the thai started smirking, so the bar owner said `I`ll pay only the thai price not the farang price`. Why was the builder smirking? Because he was trying to CON.

[Curt1591]

The original premise is "charging them based on their race".

Your premise would be simply "charging them".

The basis for the dual pricing is nationality, which can/might be considered race, which is discrimination based on "race", aka "racism".

If Thais simply charged, base on a whim, it would be different.

The reason for the racism may not be malevolent, but it's racism, just the same.

No it isnt..

If they are Lao and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Burmese and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Malay and speak Thai they pay local rate.. But if they are not asian they pay the higher rate.

My point was simply that the dual pricing had a distinct basis.

Carry on .....

[stevenl]

If they are Lao and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Burmese and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Malay and speak Thai they pay local rate.. But if they are not asian they pay the higher rate.

White Thais pay the local rate.

[thefalang]

If they are Lao and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Burmese and speak Thai they pay local rate.. If they are Malay and speak Thai they pay local rate.. But if they are not asian they pay the higher rate.

White Thais pay the local rate.

What is a "white Thai"?

[stevenl]

Somebody with a Thai ID Card but of 'farang' descent is what I meant with that.

[Peterocket]

In my opinion if you charge someone a price based on what colour their skin is then it is racism. It doesnt matter what colour the person doing the charging is.

You are charging them based on their race...therefore racism....

Quite a simple philosophy, im not sure how everyone gets confused

I know I said that was my final post but I need to make one more just to say this: AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Thank you I feel much better now.

By your logic, if I punch a black man in the face, it 100% has to be a racist attack because I am white and he is black. WRONG WRONG WRONG. If I punched the bloke in the face because he stole my car, or because he pinched my wifes bum, or for no other reason than I'm a <deleted> and fancied punching someone, then it WAS NOT A RACIST ATTACK. The fact that he was black and I am white isn't relevant to the incident. How can your opinions on dual pricing be taken seriously when you have the logic of a six year old.

I dont think you should be posting on this subject if you dont know what racism is.

If people make comments on here you often then go and make a personal comment about how they are stupid or illogical or how you are more intelligent. Im not going to lower myself to your level and tell you my opinion of you as I doubt you really care anyhow.

But in response to your post if you punch a black man it is not necessarily a racist attack. If you punch a man because he is black then it is a racist attack. So for businesses that charge all 'white' people a higher price then it is racism. Its not really hard to grasp or even debatable to be honest.