Question For The Ladies

[pete09]

About month ago one American friend of mine introduced me to another American girl who is teaching English here in Bangkok. I am a Thai man 30 years old and she is 27. We have become friends and talk on the phone and email regularly. I want to ask her out on a date and really want to get to know her and possibly build a relationship. What is the best way to demonstrate to her that I am really interested in her and to have a long term relationship and possibly marriage? I am afraid that she would think I am only after her for the immigration benefits. I have a good steady job and pay so I don’t care much about immigrating to US now, but it also would be nice to have that benefit to raise family there. Some western/American ladies’ thoughts about this issue would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Pete

[hellohello]

Hi Pete,

It's easy, just ask her out.

A date dose not necessarily translate into marriage and children. Save that part for your 100th date or you might scare her away.

In the U.S. a date is just a date.

Oh, and dont worry about the immagration benefits, remember that works both ways here.

Good luck and have fun!

[cdnvic]

Yes, just worry about the first date. Any hint of marriage talk and she will run like mad.

Besides, she may turn out to be something you don't want after that first 100 dates.

[sbk]

You should try contacting Golf. A lovely Thai man who met and ended up marrying a western girl he actually met through this forum.

But, yes, keep it slow, ask her out on a date. Be yourself and see how it goes.

[britmaveric]

Ask her out is the first step, and nothing can develop until you do so.

[eek]

I personally like it when a guy offers to take me somewhere interesting. I cant speak for other women, but i find the idea of being asked out on a 'date' as such a bit intimidating, haha! I feel like the pressure is on to either be liked or like the person your with. So, for me, the ideal situation is when a guy will just casually say to me that he was thinking to go see *insert place/thing/etc here* and would i like to come too? Then the focus is on the place we are going to (such as a place of interest like an aquarium or some event etc). In that way i can enjoy the environment and the company in an easy going way, discussing what we see, our views etc. Then we can get a feel for how we get along.

If there is definite attraction, you can move in more, get more friendly, invite out again on a more 'traditional' date if you like such as asking if she would like to have dinner with you that evening. If there is no real attraction beyond friendship, you can just say you had a fun day and that you should do it again some time, maybe with some friends. That way no one needs to feel too embarrassed.

I like a situation where i can express a range of emotions and feel natural and not like im having to put on a performance. The first time my bf took me out somewhere, was after we had had a few nice casual conversations. One of those times i mentioned how i love the mountains here in Chiang Mai and wish that i could drive so i could see more of them. He asked if i would like to go with him in the early morning to the mountains as he has a farm up there. It didnt feel planned, it just felt easy going, and I felt this was an good way to get to know him more and find out if we get along. No pressure on either of us. (However, he did actually come on WAY too strong later in the day.. I definitely dont recommend you do that! I avoided him for a week because i couldnt understand why a guy would declare how he wants someone to share his life with etc etc after just a short time together. Freaked me out! But it did get sorted out later on ) The next time he invited me out was to an Elephant Camp. It was a lot of fun and we could laugh and take pics and feed the Elephants bananas and watch them get bathed etc. I was too busy enjoying myself to feel self-conscious or nervous, and it gaves us a situation we could laugh and talk about. I think that is the best kind of date (imo), rather than sitting across from a dinner table with someone you dont know well being asked/asking a lot of personal questions etc.

But, thats just me!

Good luck with getting to know your lady, pete. Do what feels right for you. Hope it works out for you both!

Edit: btw im a British lady, so an American way/style of doing things may be a bit different. I heard the dating style can be different in America. This is just my own personal preference. =]

Edited October 6, 2009 by eek

[pete09]

Thank you guys for all your advices. Basically, I have been getting somewhat conflicting advices from people.

On one side is don’t ask for date directly and just be more casual about it and say would you like to go to place/event/etc. The other way is to be more direct, if you want a date then ask for one.. don’t beat around the bush and send confusing signal like that. what do you think?

Pete

[eek]

I guess the American Ladies might be able to say which they prefer in America??

But ultimately, what would you feel most comfortable with yourself?

[Tywais]

I guess the American Ladies might be able to say which they prefer in America??

I'm not an American lady but have dated a few. At least in my case it was always indirect. I had one girl friend that we were in an equestrian course together. I found myself interested in her and we would have some chats about the horses <lame, I know>. So, I picked up a couple of concert tickets and casually told her I just happened to have a couple of tickets to the Beach Boys concert and if she wanted to go. No hesitation, she agreed.

Not sure how indirect that was but considering how shy I am/was it was a huge effort on my part to ask. Similar experience with other girls. Just tell her you think <fill in the blanks> might be fun and what she thought about it. Just don't make a big deal of it, be casual and relaxed and you will be fine. I would suggest something other then just asking her out to dinner at first, that comes directly across as a date and is pretty cliche. Consider a picnic in the park, museum or other innocuous activity that you think she might enjoy.

Hope you ladies don't mind my butting in on the topic.

[IanForbes]

On any so called "date" that you MIGHT consider for a long term relationship it is much better to go slow. Believe me, I've had a LOT of experience in that department. Take the woman to a neutral location like a small restaurant for lunch. Evening dates are usually more formal and more serious. It should be a place where you can talk freely without eavesdroppers listening in on your conversation. A woman knows within 5 minutes whether or not she will want to see you again. Relax and enjoy your afternoon and you'll be able to tell if she is interested in furthering the friendship. It's at that point where you can suggest a more interesting place to share time together. The relationships that last the longest are the ones where you become friends first and lovers later. Go slow and ask questions. Try not to do all the talking. A good listener who asks appropriate questions is more likely to get a woman's attention than someone who tells a lot of stories and expects the woman to listen to him.

[eek]

A good listener who asks appropriate questions is more likely to get a woman's attention than someone who tells a lot of stories and expects the woman to listen to him.

Oh! Well said Ian! This should be taught to men from birth! Ive known far too many men who like the sounds of their own voices too much...(and men say women talk to much).

Really though, i think this is a golden key to many women that some men just havent figured out. We like to feel we are being listened to. (and not just auto recording the last few sentences please )

[Ave]

I personally like it when a guy offers to take me somewhere interesting. I cant speak for other women, but i find the idea of being asked out on a 'date' as such a bit intimidating, haha! I feel like the pressure is on to either be liked or like the person your with. So, for me, the ideal situation is when a guy will just casually say to me that he was thinking to go see *insert place/thing/etc here* and would i like to come too? Then the focus is on the place we are going to (such as a place of interest like an aquarium or some event etc). In that way i can enjoy the environment and the company in an easy going way, discussing what we see, our views etc. Then we can get a feel for how we get along.

If there is definite attraction, you can move in more, get more friendly, invite out again on a more 'traditional' date if you like such as asking if she would like to have dinner with you that evening. If there is no real attraction beyond friendship, you can just say you had a fun day and that you should do it again some time, maybe with some friends. That way no one needs to feel too embarrassed.

I like a situation where i can express a range of emotions and feel natural and not like im having to put on a performance. The first time my bf took me out somewhere, was after we had had a few nice casual conversations. One of those times i mentioned how i love the mountains here in Chiang Mai and wish that i could drive so i could see more of them. He asked if i would like to go with him in the early morning to the mountains as he has a farm up there. It didnt feel planned, it just felt easy going, and I felt this was an good way to get to know him more and find out if we get along. No pressure on either of us. (However, he did actually come on WAY too strong later in the day.. I definitely dont recommend you do that! I avoided him for a week because i couldnt understand why a guy would declare how he wants someone to share his life with etc etc after just a short time together. Freaked me out! But it did get sorted out later on ) The next time he invited me out was to an Elephant Camp. It was a lot of fun and we could laugh and take pics and feed the Elephants bananas and watch them get bathed etc. I was too busy enjoying myself to feel self-conscious or nervous, and it gaves us a situation we could laugh and talk about. I think that is the best kind of date (imo), rather than sitting across from a dinner table with someone you dont know well being asked/asking a lot of personal questions etc.

But, thats just me!

Good luck with getting to know your lady, pete. Do what feels right for you. Hope it works out for you both!

Edit: btw im a British lady, so an American way/style of doing things may be a bit different. I heard the dating style can be different in America. This is just my own personal preference. =]

I would feel the same as Eek and I'm neither American nor British. If I were you, Pete, I would also ask myself how I would like my date to proceed, you are not here just to please her but spend a good time together. If you think of something you really enjoy doing or somewhere where you would feel happy to go to then you could test the ground by casually asking her what she thinks about that and if it's not her thing she could tell you what she would prefer instead. As Eek says, even if you feel a strong attraction for her try to delay the moment of animalistic abandonment.. that could really put her off, no matter how much she might feel attracted to you. She must feel safe with you and know that you can take your time to get to know each other and find out if there could be something special there. I would also try to be as honest as possible within myself and toward her. I would avoid mentioning money or visa issues and so on, that would make me suspicious as it happens quite a lot, fortunately it's not your case. All the best and let your intuition and positive vibrations guide you!

[eurozhongguo]

When approaching a Western girl, especially a US one, it is best to treat a first date as nothing more than that. Most Western couples don't marry for a long time (a couple of years or far longer after the initial date), if at all, and prefer to live together unmarried first to find out if it will work out between them.

As a Thai man, you needn't worry too much about the immigration issue. Remember that marriage would also give her the right to live in Thailand. It works both ways. It is not like, lets say China, where traffic is nearly all one-way, so to speak.

There was an extremely interesting TV programme on BBC-4 in the UK last night about marrying in a foreign culture. If you download software to permit you to log onto a UK server and pretend you are located in the UK, you can watch it on BBC iplayer. A Thai man and a British girl got married on Ko Samui, but he treated her as a traditional Thai wife. He didn't want her to work (although she did and was the main breadwinner) and disliked her English ways of going out drinking with the girls and arriving home drunk (your US girl wouldn't have that "British disease"). Also, she had to put on a long skirt to visit his parents as the parents disapproved of short skirts and she had to cook Thai food as he doesn't like British food (but then again, who does?). There was also a big language barrier between her and the family which she mentioned several times. At the end of the programme, the Thai man was asked what he would do in another life and he answered that he would become a monk and have nothing to do with women, given than marriage to a Westerner was so difficult.

[eek]

eurozhongguo, i will take a look at that BB4 program, thank you. However, I think it hardly reflects the many successful Thai man/western female relationships, but im sure the OP likely aware of that.

But, to be honest the way you worded your reply had me thinking "&lt;deleted&gt;??"... ie: "British disease"...???? What on earth are you on about??

[eek]

There was an extremely interesting TV programme on BBC-4 in the UK last night about marrying in a foreign culture.

Do you remember the name of the program eurozhongguo? Or a link? Cant seem to find it using search words on google. tnx.

[WaatWang]

Thank you guys for all your advices. Basically, I have been getting somewhat conflicting advices from people.

On one side is don't ask for date directly and just be more casual about it and say would you like to go to place/event/etc. The other way is to be more direct, if you want a date then ask for one.. don't beat around the bush and send confusing signal like that. what do you think?

Pete

Hi Pete,

I'm from the US and currently with a Thai guy. I would second Eek's advice. You don't have to call it a date even though that's what it is. Calling it a date will involve a certain degree of formality and best behavior (going out to a nice restaurant, etc). It's much more fun I think to do something in the daytime where you'll be able to interact more in a more casual setting, and really get to know her.

This is just me personally - there is no way to say all American women would prefer the same!

I also would be put a bit on edge if you were to start talking marriage right out of the gate. And the idea of her thinking you just wanted US immigration status - it would not even cross my mind UNLESS you started talking about it in the first couple weeks of dating! At least wait several months of time spent together and decide for yourself if you even like her that much.

Have fun and good luck!

WaatWang

[LadyHeather]

A formal date isn't necessary but if you are interested than you have to show it. Mooning around isn't going to get you anywhere. I'd drop the marriage talk at this stage as well. You don't really know the girl so really do not know how compatible you are.

Most girls like guys who don't work too hard to impress, so I wouldn't take her some place expensive your first time out. Something low key but fun.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think you will only help yourself by being direct. Most people I have dated have either been pretty interested pretty quickly, or not at all and right away. If there's any spark you'll find out pretty soon, and that will end your dilemma. On the other hand, if you already really know the answer- have already been unconsciously rejected by her and felt it- and you are just putting off the direct question to lead yourself on- you're not helping yourself out by doing that.

[Sheryl]

Hi Pete

Speaking as an American woman...your problem is that you are already friends and you don't know if in her mind:

- she only thinks of you as a friend and making a move might end up damaging the friendship OR

- she is also interested in something more and just waiting for a move from you OR

- she thinks of you as a friend but would be (or could be persuaded to be) open to something more

If you are prepared to risk the friendship the solution is not so hard, just do as sbk said and ask her out directly in a way that makes it clear it is date (but, as all the others have said -- only a date, no hints of marriage etc).

But if you feel that, even if it can't work out as a romance you would want to keep her as a friend, then it is harder, because it is difficult for friendships to survive when one person makes a romantic overture and the other declines. In that instance it is best to be indirect enough that, if she isn't interested, you can find out without there having been an outright rejection which would cause strain between you.

Among Americans this type of situation would be handled through back and forth signals. For example, the man would give complements on the woman's appearance in a half joking, half serious way -- the point being to let her know that you notice her as a woman-- and then observe the response. If she doesn't want the relationship to take that turn she will act like she doesn't notice the mild flirting, change subject etc or turn a bit cold. If she seems to become cool and withdrawn, drop it at once. if she acts like she doesn't notice, leave it for a bit and then do it again once or twice on other occasions, as sometimes if a woman has not previously thought of a man that way she may be be taken by surprise and need some time to think about it.

If mild flirting like this gets a positive response then go ahead and ask her out, starting with something low key. i.e. day time, not expensive, maybe going somewhere fun and then getting an inexpensive lunch or snack. Complement her appearance at the onset and if the mood seems right could try some gentle touching for example while crossing a street take her hand and then see if she disengages it immediately or seems OK for you to hold it a bit past the point where necessary. Just a few moments longer, enough to get the sense of her reaction. By this point she is going to know where you are heading and should be giving some signals back, positive or negative, if negative then just go back to friend mode as if all this never happened.

Sorry if all this sounds complicated. It is perfectly possible/acceptable to tackle the subject with her directly, but there is some risk to the friendship if she is not receptive.

Would help more if we had some descriptions of her behavior when she's with you so we could get a sense of how she feels.

[pete09]

Ave, eek, WaatWang, LadyHeather, Ijustwannateach, Sheryl, and all:

Thank you for all your advice. I did manage ask her out and we agreed to meet up for lunch. I was terrified calling her and asking her at first, but after it was done I felt pretty good.

She and I are both Christians and we are more conservative type. She goes to a different church than I do. We both love reading and traveling. It will be the first one-on-one meeting between us. I value the friendship and I would like it to continue if nothing further happens. Now I have to get ready and plan on what to say/do. Thanks ladies

Pete

[Sheryl]

Glad to hear it Pete, and good luck!

[eek]

Indeed, best of luck!

[britmaveric]

Hmmmmmm lunch? Well that cries out "friend". However best of luck and just take things slowly.

Edited October 13, 2009 by britmaveric

[sbk]

Lunch is a good start Brit, far less pressure than dinner

[sbk]

Ave, eek, WaatWang, LadyHeather, Ijustwannateach, Sheryl, and all:

Thank you for all your advice. I did manage ask her out and we agreed to meet up for lunch. I was terrified calling her and asking her at first, but after it was done I felt pretty good.

She and I are both Christians and we are more conservative type. She goes to a different church than I do. We both love reading and traveling. It will be the first one-on-one meeting between us. I value the friendship and I would like it to continue if nothing further happens. Now I have to get ready and plan on what to say/do. Thanks ladies

Pete

Um, one word of advice here. LISTEN. Do not plan on what to say, you want her interested in you? Show interest in her. Number one mistake guys make on a date is to talk about themselves all the way through it.

[Amyji]

You should try contacting Golf. A lovely Thai man who met and ended up marrying a western girl he actually met through this forum.

But, yes, keep it slow, ask her out on a date. Be yourself and see how it goes.

Hi Pete - I'm Amy, Golf's wife.

The fact that you and your lady friend are already communicating is a big plus. You know how Golf asked me out? He suggested we meet over a cup of coffee at Starbucks. It was a late afternoon meeting and we naturally went onto dinner that same night.

Part of what made the night so great (and subsequent evenings) was that we didn't formalize it by calling it a "date". We also hit it off so well, talking and talking, that we felt totally comfortable and all our nervousness evaporated quickly.

Your English seems VERY good. This by itself is a huge plus because being able to express yourself to her and understanding her when she speaks to you takes a huge burden off. I dated a Thai guy who barely spoke English and I spoke about as much Thai and I was ALWAYS nervous around him because I never knew what he was thinking or feeling or what he even LIKED. I couldn't get to know him.

But for Golf and me, it just so happened that both of us were ready for a serious relationship, but we certainly didn't talk about that issue until we both could feel in our hearts that what we had together was special and that we wanted to continue as a couple. That space between casually dating somebody to becoming their girlfriend or boyfriend varies tremendously between couples.

So calm down and take a deep breath. Ask her out to some place casual - there are so many cool, funky things you could do in Bangkok. Keep us posted, Pete, and chook dii!

[katabeach]

geeeez....what a complicated set of instructions just to compliment somebody on their looks.Do you really believe all american women require this approach.....

[sunny747]

hope the girl is not reading this...: )