Survivors Benefits

[chiang mai]

Mrs CM has just found out about, and signed up for, Thai Social Security insurance - for those who are not aware it's a government scheme whereby Thai nationals, in full time employment pay a nominal sum each month and become eligible for a range of benefits ranging from health and accident insurance, maternity benefits and a retirement pension - once each member has accrued enough contributions they can pay into the scheme outside of full time employment and overall it looks like a fairly decent sort of thing for many folks.

So having been dragged around the Thai Social Security offices for the past two days whilst Mrs CM chatted to various new friends I began to wonder what benefits Mrs CM might have as a result of my UK and US Social Security entitlements. I'm eligible for a full UK state pension and for a US Social Security pension also but Mrs CM is younger than me thus I wonder how both systems work in this respect. Is Mrs CM potentially entitles to survivors benefits or similar, anyone figured it all out yet?

[oldgeezer]

With respect to U.S Social Security, the GENERAL rule is upon your death, your wife can receive 1/2 of your benefits, when she becomes of retirement age. I have the same problem. I have been married for over 25 years to a Thai and she still has 12 years to go before she becomes eligible for SS as she has no eligibility of her own.

[chiang mai]

Thanks for that, I suspected that was the case or similar but was too lazy to search for the answers on the internet, plus, I was interested to know what the real world situation is, Mrs CM will be well pleased with news of her intended future wealth!

[beechguy]

Does the surviving spouse have to have lived in the U.S. for a period of time to be qualified for benefits?

Edited October 9, 2009 by beechguy

[chiang mai]

Does the surviving spouse have to have lived in the U.S. for a period of time to be qualified for benefits?

No they do not.

[TerryLH]

"Does the surviving spouse have to have lived in the U.S. for a period of time to be qualified for benefits?"

Once you start collecting, your spouse and minor children are eligible for 'family benefits. She can be any age to start collecting this, but must have lived in the US for 5 years to qualify.

Not sure if there is the same requirement for collecting when she reaches the right age.

The US Embassy will provide some soc sec info. The soc sec web site has everything you need to know.

__________________________--

"...become eligible for a range of benefits ranging from health and accident insurance, maternity benefits and a retirement pension - once each member has accrued enough contributions they can pay into the scheme outside of full time employment..."

You only need to be in the system for 3 months before you can start paying on your own. It's 432 a month. Because of the govt stimulus package, the fee has been cut to 260 a month for the rest of the year.

Most expats don't know much about Thai Soc Sec and tend to be negative and belittle it, if they even know about it. However, the health benefits are actually a really good deal.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Does the surviving spouse have to have lived in the U.S. for a period of time to be qualified for benefits?

No they do not.

Wrong. Five years, and five years AFTER marriage, so a gal getting a PHD in the use prior to marrige, that time would not count.

I looked this up a few weeks ago for a friend who didn't believe me. Check it out yourself.

Mac

FYI, the highlighted portion below is why Su & May won't receive survivors benefits.

Mac

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html

SSA Publication No. 05-10137, June 2009, ICN 480085

Contents

Introduction

When are you “outside the U.S.”?

What happens to your right to Social Security payments when you are outside the U.S.?

Additional residency requirements for dependents and survivors

Countries to which we cannot send payments

What you need to do to protect your right to benefits

Things that must be reported

How to report

If your check Is lost or stolen

Direct deposit In financial institutions

Taxes

What you need to know about Medicare

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Additional residency requirements for dependents and survivors:

Additional residency requirements for dependents and survivors

If you receive benefits as a dependent or survivor of the worker, special requirements may affect your right to receive Social Security payments while you are outside the United States. If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During that five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

Children may meet this residency requirement on their own or may be considered as meeting the residency requirement if it is met by the worker and other parent (if any). However, children adopted outside the United States will not be paid outside the United States, even if the residency requirement is met.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If you are not a U.S. citizen your payments will stop after you have been outside the United States for six full calendar months unless you meet one of the following exceptions:

You are a citizen of one of the countries listed below, and the worker on whose record your benefits are based lived in the United States for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 credits under the U.S. Social Security system. If you are receiving benefits as a dependent or survivor, see additional requirements.

Laos and Thailand

If you are not a U.S. citizen and none of these exceptions applies to you, your payments will stop after you have been outside the United States. for six full months. Once this happens, your payments cannot be started again until you come back and stay in the United States for a whole calendar month. You have to be in the United States on the first minute of the first day of a month and stay through the last minute of the last day of that month. In addition, you may be required to prove that you have been lawfully present in the United States for the full calendar month.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Contact for info is:

Philippines

Social Security Division

U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

Regional Office

American Embassy

1131 Roxas Boulevard

Ermita 0930 Manila

Philippines

Phone: 632-301-2000, extensions 5085, 6302 and 6319

Fax: 632-522-1514 and 632-525-9482

Email: [email protected]

[nakachalet]

it does appear that federal entitlements and benefits differ from state entitlement and retirement benefits.

i was informed that my spouse, whether a us citizen or not, and my children will be able to receive my state monthly retirement entitlement upon my decease, regardless whether or not they live in the states or elsewhere.

that was the info received some 8 yrs ago.

is anyone knowledgeable about this and has time to explain a little more, pls?

[ericthai]

Maybe this will help you nakachalet, my friend died about 5yrs ago. He had a thai wife lived in Thailand for about 5 years, then lived in the US the last year before he died. He had 3 kids with his thai wife and she has been getting SS since he died. I think she get $800 per child, but this depends on what you paid in. Was told she will get this amount until the children reach the age of either 16 or 18, cant recall. I believe she will get his SS when she reaches 65, not positive about that. After he died she came back to Thailand.

[nakachalet]

ericthat

thx much for the info.

much appreciated.

however, the individual states, for example the state of nev does pay the survival spouse who would continue to receive the decease monthly benefits.... as i vaguely recall..... lol at the age of three scores and almost ten.... i am much blessed just to be alive.... amen

anyway, will call the state retirement system and get its official input....

thx again ericthai, much obliged indeed....

[Lifer]

Does the surviving spouse have to have lived in the U.S. for a period of time to be qualified for benefits?

With regards to a Thai National who is not a citizen of the US, they MUST have lived in the USA for 5 years in a row to qualify for their US husbands social security. By telling people they do not, is misleading the people asking the questions.

If the U.S. citizen is retired military they can contact JUSTMAG in Bangkok. If not, contact the Social Security Administration at the US Embassy in Manila. Try this email address, he is my claims handler for my Social Security benefits:

"Jocson, Robert" <[email protected]>

The other thing that is misleading is that because early SS retirees can work full time in US as long as they may less than $14,000/yr. working in the US, if they are living and working overseas, they may not work more than 45 verified hours/ month until they reach there full retirement age.

Hope this helps those who need to know in order to plan for their Thai spouse's financial security.

[beechguy]

Thanks for the information Lifer, that was the way I understood it, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

[thaigold]

You may want to correct me on this, but it is my understanding that survivor benefits will only be paid to resident aliens, not widowed Thais living in the Kingdom. It's cruel and unfair, but it's the law.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

it does appear that federal entitlements and benefits differ from state entitlement and retirement benefits.

i was informed that my spouse, whether a us citizen or not, and my children will be able to receive my state monthly retirement entitlement upon my decease, regardless whether or not they live in the states or elsewhere.

that was the info received some 8 yrs ago.

is anyone knowledgeable about this and has time to explain a little more, pls?

Depends on what entitlements you're talking about.

Social Security, perhaps not, as my wife will not get survivors on mine.

Federal RETIREMENT, yes, she'll get the 55% survivors benefits of my FEDERAL retirement.

She does NOT have a green card, been to the U.S. numerous times on her 10-year NIV, longest stay at any one time was 6 weeks.

Mac

[Lifer]

Thanks for the information Lifer, that was the way I understood it, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

The one thing I am not sure about is if the Thai National is allowed to leave to visit Family. I believe they are. but do not know how long each year they can be out of the US. My wife is not eligible for my SS because we are living in Chiang Mai, and do not have plans to go to US.

Something else that many U.S. retirees do not know if they are married to a Thai National. I you have children under the age of 18, the SS will pay you a sizable monthly payment to each of your children under 18. They need to have a US Social Security card and US Report of Birth, and US passport. Once they have the documents in hand, file the proper application for the payments. They are sent to you as payee, but the benefit is for the child. They want to send it to the mother, but you can request the payments be deposited in your US account in your name. The payment is approx 60-70% of your retirement payment. As long as you remain eligible and they are under 18 they get the payment.

I believe that if they are in college they continue to get the payment until they are 21. If you die, the payment is sent to your spouse.

Anyone wanting any information concerning application for SS benefits if you live in Thailand, send email to me. Not many people understand about the children's payments based on retirees benefit.

One last thing, if you are retired military living here or in US and your wife has lived in US for 5 years, there is a small monthly payment she is entitled to under the VA if you die. For more information contact JUSTMAG in Bangkok.

[chiang mai]

it does appear that federal entitlements and benefits differ from state entitlement and retirement benefits.

i was informed that my spouse, whether a us citizen or not, and my children will be able to receive my state monthly retirement entitlement upon my decease, regardless whether or not they live in the states or elsewhere.

that was the info received some 8 yrs ago.

is anyone knowledgeable about this and has time to explain a little more, pls?

Depends on what entitlements you're talking about.

Social Security, perhaps not, as my wife will not get survivors on mine.

Federal RETIREMENT, yes, she'll get the 55% survivors benefits of my FEDERAL retirement.

She does NOT have a green card, been to the U.S. numerous times on her 10-year NIV, longest stay at any one time was 6 weeks.

Mac

Perhaps I don't understand the terminology being used here, is Federal retirement the same thing as Social Security payments made by the government at age 62?

[chiang mai]

You may want to correct me on this, but it is my understanding that survivor benefits will only be paid to resident aliens, not widowed Thais living in the Kingdom. It's cruel and unfair, but it's the law.

I don't know but it would seem to be par for the course!

[Lifer]

You may want to correct me on this, but it is my understanding that survivor benefits will only be paid to resident aliens, not widowed Thais living in the Kingdom. It's cruel and unfair, but it's the law.

As long as she qualifies under that 5 year US residence rule, I believe she will collect SS based on your entitlements even though not currently in the US. Most of the publications the SS puts out are far from clear or complete. For instance I was called from Manila SS and ask if I worked more than 45 hours/month. I did not hear the per month and I told the guy, yes of course I do as I reported my full time employment in my benefit applications. The guy told me that I could not collect early SS retirement benefits then. After some talking, I finally understood that it was because I lived and worked overseas. If I had worked in the US I could have continued working as long as I didn't make more than $14,000.

They gave me three days to decide if I wanted to continue working or quit my full time job. Because my total benefits including my military retirement, SS benefits, and payments for child came to more than my total benefits working, I quit. I can work part time under 45 hours/month if I choose to.

By the way, the people at the SS in Manila are wonderful. As long as you remain polite and respectful, have all your applications, and supporting documents in order, your claim gets processed quite quickly. If you give them a hassle or are rude, they will just happen to process your paperwork later.

Hope this info has been useful.

[beechguy]

Perhaps I don't understand the terminology being used here, is Federal retirement the same thing as Social Security payments made by the government at age 62?

No, Federal Retirement is for a person that has worked directly for the Federal Governement, Social Security is a seperate fund, most, if not all others pay into during their employment.

[paulchiangmai]

Mrs CM has just found out about, and signed up for, Thai Social Security insurance - for those who are not aware it's a government scheme whereby Thai nationals, in full time employment pay a nominal sum each month and become eligible for a range of benefits ranging from health and accident insurance, maternity benefits and a retirement pension - once each member has accrued enough contributions they can pay into the scheme outside of full time employment and overall it looks like a fairly decent sort of thing for many folks.

So having been dragged around the Thai Social Security offices for the past two days whilst Mrs CM chatted to various new friends I began to wonder what benefits Mrs CM might have as a result of my UK and US Social Security entitlements. I'm eligible for a full UK state pension and for a US Social Security pension also but Mrs CM is younger than me thus I wonder how both systems work in this respect. Is Mrs CM potentially entitles to survivors benefits or similar, anyone figured it all out yet?

All the replies have concerned US social security, is there any info out there regarding UK entitlements to a Thai spouse?

[chiang mai]

No, Federal Retirement is for a person that has worked directly for the Federal Governement, Social Security is a seperate fund, most, if not all others pay into during their employment.

Thanks for that clarification, understood.

[chiang mai]

Mrs CM has just found out about, and signed up for, Thai Social Security insurance - for those who are not aware it's a government scheme whereby Thai nationals, in full time employment pay a nominal sum each month and become eligible for a range of benefits ranging from health and accident insurance, maternity benefits and a retirement pension - once each member has accrued enough contributions they can pay into the scheme outside of full time employment and overall it looks like a fairly decent sort of thing for many folks.

So having been dragged around the Thai Social Security offices for the past two days whilst Mrs CM chatted to various new friends I began to wonder what benefits Mrs CM might have as a result of my UK and US Social Security entitlements. I'm eligible for a full UK state pension and for a US Social Security pension also but Mrs CM is younger than me thus I wonder how both systems work in this respect. Is Mrs CM potentially entitles to survivors benefits or similar, anyone figured it all out yet?

All the replies have concerned US social security, is there any info out there regarding UK entitlements to a Thai spouse?

It looks as though the subject matter/scenario is one that doesn't attract too many Brits, interesting as to why. I'm grateful to all our American friends who provided lots of good data on the subject but my fellow countrymen seem to not know/be interested/not read, or perhaps we shouldn't go there!

Edited October 10, 2009 by chiang mai

[TerryLH]

"... believe that if they are in college they continue to get the payment until they are 21."

The rest of the post about child benefits was correct, but the above statement is wrong.

The child is eligible to get benefits until they are 18 years old.

They will be eligible for one additional year if they are still in high school. Yes, high school. I asked several times to make sure what I was reading/hearing was correct.

The child/family benefit was a nice surprise for me. First off I'm getting more than double what they estimated I'd get when I quit working 17+ years ago.

Then, on top of that another check for my daughter. That takes care of her college fund.

As Lifer said, the people in Manila at the soc sec office are first rate.

[nakachalet]

No, Federal Retirement is for a person that has worked directly for the Federal Governement, Social Security is a seperate fund, most, if not all others pay into during their employment.

Thanks for that clarification, understood.

-------

just to clarify another category of monthly entitlement check which has not been mentioned....

in addition to the federal and ss checks, there are also several of us who are also receiving the third category of monthly checks from our individual states....

these individuals before their retirement, be it forced retirement or early retirement, worked for the businesses and/or corporation which co-paid monthly to individual state treasury, which these same individuals also co-paid into the same account....

at their retirement, if accumulated sufficient work credits, would also receive their "third" category of monthly income checks.... wherever they are....

you lucky dogs.... lol

actually these individuals are not "lucky" per se.... mostly, their parents are ultra intelligent directing their children's future from the day they were born.... lol

also, they themselves worked hard for some thirty plus years....

imagine that.... some thirty plus years of daily toil and labor.... to get what they are entitled to, today.... lol

may i salute you all....

Edited October 10, 2009 by nakachalet

[PattayaParent]

All the replies have concerned US social security, is there any info out there regarding UK entitlements to a Thai spouse?

The UK SS told me that when I die my wife will be entitled to Breavement Benefit which is a one off paymnet currently 2k Quids and when she reaches retirement age then she can have my pension entitlement.

No requirement for residence in UK.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

You may want to correct me on this, but it is my understanding that survivor benefits will only be paid to resident aliens, not widowed Thais living in the Kingdom. It's cruel and unfair, but it's the law.

Not quite so. Read through this online brochure, also downloadable. Non-Resident aliens can received survivors benefits when living in Thailand. Much more at the brochure, but here's the short form:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html

Your Payments While You Are Outside The United States

You are a citizen of one of the countries listed below, and the worker on whose record your benefits are based lived in the United States for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 credits under the U.S. Social Security system. If you are receiving benefits as a dependent or survivor, see additional requirements.

Thailand (and many others)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mac

[chiang mai]

You may want to correct me on this, but it is my understanding that survivor benefits will only be paid to resident aliens, not widowed Thais living in the Kingdom. It's cruel and unfair, but it's the law.

Not quite so. Read through this online brochure, also downloadable. Non-Resident aliens can received survivors benefits when living in Thailand. Much more at the brochure, but here's the short form:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html

Your Payments While You Are Outside The United States

You are a citizen of one of the countries listed below, and the worker on whose record your benefits are based lived in the United States for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 credits under the U.S. Social Security system. If you are receiving benefits as a dependent or survivor, see additional requirements.

Thailand (and many others)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mac

I'm afraid quite so! Post number 7 in this thread shows more of the extract that you posted and goes on to define the additional requirements mentioned above, one of these is that the (alien) spouse must have lived in the US for five years.

[prakhonchai nick]

The UK SS told me that when I die my wife will be entitled to Breavement Benefit which is a one off paymnet currently 2k Quids and when she reaches retirement age then she can have my pension entitlement.

No requirement for residence in UK.

Bereavement benefit is correct

The bereavement benefit is a £2000 0ne off payment.

In addition his surviving thai wife (if under 60) and no dependent children will be entitled to 1 years Widows pension -currently £57 a week if NI stamps paid in full by the late husband.

If the surviving wife has dependent children (need not be the husbands) then she is entitled to bereaved parents allowance whilst the child/children are in SECONDARY education (not university) up to age 20.

This allowance is currently worth around £95 a week.

Once the widow reaches 60 (or maybe slightly more depending on her present age, she will be entitled to a pension in her own right providing she neither remarries nor cohabits.

Trust this helps

PM me for more info if you wish

[SantiSuk]

The UK SS told me that when I die my wife will be entitled to Breavement Benefit which is a one off paymnet currently 2k Quids and when she reaches retirement age then she can have my pension entitlement.

No requirement for residence in UK.

Bereavement benefit is correct

The bereavement benefit is a £2000 0ne off payment.

In addition his surviving thai wife (if under 60) and no dependent children will be entitled to 1 years Widows pension -currently £57 a week if NI stamps paid in full by the late husband.

If the surviving wife has dependent children (need not be the husbands) then she is entitled to bereaved parents allowance whilst the child/children are in SECONDARY education (not university) up to age 20.

This allowance is currently worth around £95 a week.

Once the widow reaches 60 (or maybe slightly more depending on her present age, she will be entitled to a pension in her own right providing she neither remarries nor cohabits.

Trust this helps

PM me for more info if you wish

You need to have made National Insurance contributions in the UK for 39 years to get the full benefit for your surviving spouse, but I seem to recall that the £2,000 lump sum benefit is much easier to qualify for.

Bereavement benefits are worth having. I wonder how many ex-pats properly brief their Thia wives about how to collect benefit when they peg-it!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...C&cre=Money

[prakhonchai nick]

You need to have made National Insurance contributions in the UK for 39 years to get the full benefit for your surviving spouse, but I seem to recall that the £2,000 lump sum benefit is much easier to qualify for.

Bereavement benefits are worth having. I wonder how many ex-pats properly brief their Thia wives about how to collect benefit when they peg-it!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...C&cre=Money

Actually its 44 years for full benefit, if you are a man and 39 for women, if you reach retirement age before 5th April 2010. After that date its 30 years for everyone.

I agree entirely that the Bereavement benefits are worth having. £2000 lump sum + 1 years pension currently at £57 a week. And if there are children, it can be as much as £95 a week until the youngest is 20.

Unfortunately most widows are unaware of this, and nobody tells them. It is necessary to claim the £2000 within a year, and the other benefits cannot be backdated for more than 3 months.

I suggest all farangs make a note of this and keep it with their main financial assets. It won't take the widows too long to come across it!