Do You Prefer Thailand Or Siam For The Name Of This Country?

[Huey]

Siam is rockin, I can understand why the Vietnamese changed from "French Indo China" or the Zimbabweans changed from "Rhodesia" But no one forced the name Siam on the nation and it's a cool and regal name. Shame really.

[sassienie]

And now presenting the politically correct Thai version:

We are Thai my oh my

We are Thai if you don't mind

We are from a residence of Thailand

There is no finer cat in any land

Do you see that thing swimming round and round

Maybe we can reach on in and make it drown

If we sneaking up upon it carefully

There will be head for you and a tail for me

We are Thai my oh my

We are Thai if you don't mind

Now we're looking over our new domisile

If we like we stay for maybe quite a while

Meow.......here kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty

Do you hear what I hear a baby cry

Where we finding baby there's milk near by

And if we look in baby buggy there could be

Plenty of milk for you and also some for me

We are Thai my oh my

We are Thai if you don't mind

Now we're looking over our new domisile

If we like we stay for maybe quite a while

We are Thai my oh my

We are Thai if you don't mind

We are from a residence of Thailand

There is no finer cat in any land

There is no finer cat in any land

There are no finer cats talk to the hand!

Your a poet and didn`t know it.

I am Siamese, if you please, ba bom. bom bom.

Edited October 10, 2009 by sassienie

[alyx]

Definitly SIAM

It has a nice poetic ring to it and even when I am in Thailand, when I hear the word Siam, it does make me dream

[alyx]

Siam is rockin, I can understand why the Vietnamese changed from "French Indo China" or the Zimbabweans changed from "Rhodesia" But no one forced the name Siam on the nation and it's a cool and regal name. Shame really.

Well, apart from the fact that some names were forced upon the countries, Indochine sounds quite nice and Saigon is still called Saigon by a lot of vietnamese

[Smile4u]

There is a world wide stigma to the name Thailand.

Siam is my choise

[DP25]

Siam is rockin, I can understand why the Vietnamese changed from "French Indo China" or the Zimbabweans changed from "Rhodesia" But no one forced the name Siam on the nation and it's a cool and regal name. Shame really.

It was done because Siam was thought Ayutthaya centric and Prathet Thai was more inclusive of the various Thai speaking groups in Thailand and in the neighboring Thai speaking areas that they hoped to incorporate at the time. Aside from that, to my non Thai ears, Siam sounds way cooler than Thailand, not even a contest.

[phetaroi]

I prefer Siam , much more alluring and exotic , soft and silky when pronounced as Eartha Kit did "seeeeam" , Thailand is more harsh , did you ever watch 'The King and I' , made one want to take the first available plane out , banned in Thailand of course . Do you remember also , the song from Walt Disney(?) "We are Siamese if you ple-ease" , Lots of free , good advertising done to invite the curious .

Is it still banned? I regularly see it at "good" video stores, for example at Central World. No, I'm not talking under-the-counter.

[phetaroi]

I'm curious about pronunciation.

I always thought it was pronounced "sigh - am".

But I hear Thais say "see - ahm", including the Skytrain station's name.

Now, that would sound odd to me to say "see - ahm - ese", rather than "sigh - am - ese".

[garyh]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe expats farangs have no say in the matter.

[LooseCannon]

I'm curious about pronunciation.

I always thought it was pronounced "sigh - am".

But I hear Thais say "see - ahm", including the Skytrain station's name.

Now, that would sound odd to me to say "see - ahm - ese", rather than "sigh - am - ese".

"sigh - am" is the anglicized pronunciation of Siam.

"see - ahm" is how native Thai speakers pronounce Siam.

"-ese" is an English suffix meaning "coming from". "of", "originating from" & does sound odd when added to the Thai pronounced Siam.

The next question is ... for those that choose "Siam" over "Thailand" which pronunciation do you prefer.... Thai or anglicized?

[Svenn]

I hear "sa-yaam" more than "see-yam"

[tigerboy]

The real Siam ended a couple hundred years ago when the Chinese became the majority in Bangkok.

How about Sino-Siam then?

[on-on]

Of course Thailand only became Thailand in the middle of the last century, so it is a very new name historically speaking.

The long standing name of the country was Siam.

Forgetting any political implications to naming it Thailand or Siam and forgetting the practical issues of changing it back to Siam, which do you prefer?

I prefer Siam.

There's no doubt the country would be better off named Siam. Much more mystery there and much better for tourist marketing. That's not the best reason to name a country, but if we're discussing various reasons to choose a name it's worth mentioning. I always wondered why the Philippines didn't stick with The Philippine Islands. Who wants to go to The Philippines? The Philippines Islands, however, sounds cool. Of course The Philippine Islands was its colonial name, but hello, "Philippines." Not exactly Tagalog or Cebuano there.

Anyway, yeah, Siam is superior for all aesthetic reasons.

[caf]

UK = United Kingdom, formerly, Great Britain.

Thailand = Kingdom of Thai, formerly Siam.

The United Kingdom comprises of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

This and your previous post are absoluterly correct. Can't see why Jingthing thought Thailand is an English name. It is only a translation. but harmless and some good posts about the history.

[colinscarr]

OK, I'm in the minority, but I prefer Thailand. Why? I suppose because while Siam may sound exotic, I started by visiting Thailand and now I live in Thailand. The name Siam has no personal meaning/resonance/appeal for me.

If I had to go for the old fashioned name, I prefer "See-am" to "Sigh-am".

Garyh, sure falang have no choice in the name of the country, but if you read the OP, you'd see it asked in a NON POLITICAL way which name we found more aesthetically pleasing. Even dumb #rsed foreigners are allowed to say which one sounds nicer or more interesting.

[mca]

Have you ever spoken to someone who describes himself as a Siamese rather than Thai? I haven't.

I have. I nearly shit myself to discover a talking cat.

[Jingthing]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe expats farangs have no say in the matter.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the north pole lies to the north of the south pole.

[dumball]

Garyh , please name us a few things Farang have even a miniscule of say in , or for that matter , Who would we hope to influence with our mixed up , cross-threaded ways , or even if it was possible to agree 50% ___50% of the time , what Thai would be in the least interested or concerned with our wierd bantering ??????

[tmark]

There are a lot of countries ending in "land" England, New Zealand, Swaziland etc etc. They could have been a little more original. Not really surprising in "LOC" (land of copiers)

I like Siam though. Thailand just doesn't understand the concept of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Take all the constant visa rule changes as an example.

I think the problem is, that every time a position of authority gets filled with a new guy, he just has to change things. It happens everywhere. Even with new school directors. They want it to appear as if they doing something constructive in their new job. "Face" related crap and all that.

No real big deal I suppose though. I'm used to it now.

[473geo]

There are a lot of countries ending in "land" England, New Zealand, Swaziland etc etc. They could have been a little more original. Not really surprising in "LOC" (land of copiers)

I like Siam though. Thailand just doesn't understand the concept of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Take all the constant visa rule changes as an example.

I think the problem is, that every time a position of authority gets filled with a new guy, he just has to change things. It happens everywhere. Even with new school directors. They want it to appear as if they doing something constructive in their new job. "Face" related crap and all that.

No real big deal I suppose though. I'm used to it now.

You should be...... because your observation is relevant the world over..certainly far from endemic to Thailand.

[tmark]

Your right. It's just MUCH more prevalent here. Hence the mention.

[cyb]

I have always preferred Siam to Thailand.

Whenever i say to my daughter that she has such a beautiful smile, She replies siam smile is the best in world.

[cyb]

You say Thailand. Thais say Kingdom of Thai. ประเทศไทย

That is interesting.....because that puts a different slant on the whole topic

Kingdom of Thai sounds good

Kingdom of Siam sounds much better.

But each to their own.

[473geo]

Agreed Kingdom of Siam does sound better...... 'Siam' or 'Thailand' was the original choice......'Kindom of Thailand' was an adjustment......which I thought was good if Thailand has to be used..........and now you are throwing in 'Kingdom of Siam'.......

Now we can see how the search for identity follows a winding road......

[geriatrickid]

Kingdom of Siam - Conjures up beauty and elegance.

I also would like to see the locals going back to wearing MC Hammer pants and going barefoot.

[forqalso]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe expats farangs have no say in the matter.

I thought thought this was just an opinion poll and not an offical vote to change the name.

(We are allowed to have opinions, right?)

[mca]

I thought thought this was just an opinion poll and not an offical vote to change the name.

(We are allowed to have opinions, right?)

Immigration Rule 713/2a (Updated 12/10/09): Foreigners residing in Thailand for a period of 90 days or more are not allowed to have opinions relating to Thailand or anything to do with it. Anybody found breaking this rule will be subject to a fine of 2000 baht for a maximum of 20 opinions with a further 200 baht fine for every opinion that exceeds this amount up to a maximum of 10000 baht. Aliens must report to immigration every 90 days with a filled in TM12 form and signed by a witness of good standing and integrity that the alien concerned has not voiced an opinion regarding Thailand in that period of time.

Genuine and valid complaints (as opposed to tedious whining) do not count as opinions and must be referred to Chaeng Wattana Immigration "If You Don't Like It Go Home" Department Room 15.

For an example of what is considered to be a genuine complaint as opposed to tedious whining please see the following examples.

Genuine Complaint : " I got knocked of my motorcycle by a pissed up local doctor and now I'm paralyzed from the neck down but the culprit got off scot free because the local judge was the doctor's brother in law"

Tedious Whining : " I was in 7-11 the other day and the stupid girl didn't understand a word of English even though I've lived in Thailand for a decade and can't speak a word of Thai but why should I because English is the international language"

[camerata]

I know where you're coming from OP, but it's hard to see these two names substitutable synonyms... it's tantamount to asking "which sounds better? zimbabwe or brazil?" For me, they both mean something distinct and have practical meaning in the present day. 'Siam' or 'Siamese' refers to the majority Thai group of the Chao Praya river basin... it excludes other "Tai" people such as Lanna and Laotian Isaan... not to mention non-Tai Malay.

Many farangs don't realize this, and think it's just a romantic synonym for Thailand... it's not, and is actually a tool of ethnic pride by the majoirty. My gf is from isaan, and always distinguishes kohn lao from kohn siam when she's talking to me. The real Siam ended a couple hundred years ago when the Chinese became the majority in Bangkok.

Well, you can look at it two ways. "Thailand" was introduced by a nationalist dictator to try and give legitimacy to the nation-state as primarily the home of the ethnic Tai (Siamese, Lao, Lanna, Tai Yai, etc) and so it excluded the Chinese and other minority groups. The modern proponents of "Siam" (who happen to be mostly Chinese) claim it is less ethnicity-specific. It was originally the name for central Thailand rather than the whole of it, but that included groups such as Mons and Khmers, as well as Siamese.

[Jingthing]

OK, now we are really getting into the politics. Camerata is exactly right including about the virulent anti-Chinese motivation behind the name change to Thailand. The name will not be changed because Thailand/Siam's culture is highly averse to looking into the more shameful aspects of their history, and their more recent (WW2 era) even more so. Any name change attempt in the future would be highly politicized just as the name change to Thailand was. It ain't gonna happen, that's why I originally suggested leaving the politics out it. Bottom line, if it were easy, and not so loaded with unpleasant reminders, there is little doubt SIAM is the better name.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Jingthing

[wileycoyote]

Siam is quicker when you are writing address