2009 World University Rankings Released

[LawnGnome]

2009 World University Rankings from QS were just released.

2 Thai schools in the top 400

Chulalonkorn University - 138

Mahidol University - 220

(Both schools are up 30 places from last year)

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-...gs/2009/results

Here is a youtube link with the info gatherer talking, if that floats your boat. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_GSKlPjCnU...player_embedded

[majorpacman]

Many times the rich and powerful parents buy the kids a slot for them at the uni. If you are celebrity in some country u get the jump from getting in line to automatic admission, same thing from children of the spoil rich/corrupt

[CWMcMurray]

I would say that puts them in the respectable "mid range" Univerisity status.

[mrtoad]

I would say that puts them in the respectable "mid range" Univerisity status.

Yeah it's pretty good, but nothing fantastic. Although it does appear that they are moving in the right direction and the staff and students associated with those two Universities should be rightly proud of that.

[CWMcMurray]

Just to add a bit of perspective....

129= GEORGETOWN University United States

129= OHIO STATE University United States

129= University of ABERDEEN United Kingdom

132= TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technolog... Israel

132= University of VIENNA Austria

134 POHANG University of Science And Technol... Korea, South

135 CARDIFF University United Kingdom

136 University of GHENT Belgium

137 University of LIVERPOOL United Kingdom

138= CHULALONGKORN University Thailand

138= University of GRONINGEN Netherlands

140 VANDERBILT University United States

141 University of ROCHESTER United States

142 KEIO University Japan

143 Mcmaster University Canada

144= University of BATH United Kingdom

[CWMcMurray]

209 RENSSELAER Polytechnic Institute United States

210 HELSINKI University of Technology (TKK) Finland

211= Autonomous University of BARCELONA Spain

211= KOREA University Korea, South

211= Technical University of BERLIN Germany

214 DALHOUSIE University Canada

215= Autonomous University of MADRID Spain

215= STOCKHOLM University Sweden

215= University of DUNDEE United Kingdom

218= KOBE University Japan

218= Paris-Sud XI University France

220= MAHIDOL University Thailand

220= Radboud University NIJMEGEN Netherlands

222 MICHIGAN STATE University United States

223= National TSING HUA University Taiwan

223= Rmit University Australia

225 University of IOWA United States

226 University of OTTAWA

[CWMcMurray]

I can only speak for the US, but I know some folks who went to MICHIGAN STATE & University of ROCHESTER and those are considered decent Universities...

[LawnGnome]

Many times the rich and powerful parents buy the kids a slot for them at the uni. If you are celebrity in some country u get the jump from getting in line to automatic admission, same thing from children of the spoil rich/corrupt

As a faculty member at one of Mahidol's faculty, I can tell you that none of our slots our bought (that does not stop the parents from trying). I am a member of the admission committee, so I have direct knowledge to give this answer. Can't speak for other programs or universities, but there are people trying to buy their kids in, to be sure.

Now, this was different when my faculty was younger. We termed some of the "Golden Children", - kids whos parents were so highly connected, that we had to accept them, or else face funding consequences (think "Thaksin Era"). However, our program has grown in reputation to the point where we no longer accept these students (which was a big step forward for our school).

Nice to be on the right track, maybe others will follow.

[jasreeve17]

I'm always shocked when Mahidol beats Thammasart in some pole or ranking...

It comes down to individual faculties and departments; there's huge divergence. I'd say that the top Thammasart faculties are at least on a par with Chula's Faculty of Arts (commonly acknowledged as Thailand's number 1), and far superior to Mahidol's top faculties.

If we look at the UK uni listings (which vary) then the university of Dundee comes in around 40th, they're just above Mahidol. That's not a bad showing, but not spectacular either: Thailand's no3 = UK's no40 puts some perspective on the numbers.

[LawnGnome]

I'm always shocked when Mahidol beats Thammasart in some pole or ranking...

It comes down to individual faculties and departments; there's huge divergence. I'd say that the top Thammasart faculties are at least on a par with Chula's Faculty of Arts (commonly acknowledged as Thailand's number 1), and far superior to Mahidol's top faculties.

If we look at the UK uni listings (which vary) then the university of Dundee comes in around 40th, they're just above Mahidol. That's not a bad showing, but not spectacular either: Thailand's no3 = UK's no40 puts some perspective on the numbers.

You might be right, but Mahidol is never ranked highly because of its arts and humanities faculties (most of which are less then 30 years old, when the medical school diversified to become the university). They are ranked because of the sciences, life science, natural science, and medical faculties. Thammasat is in no way "far superior" in those areas.

There is no perspective needed between Thailand and the US and UK. No one is arguing that they are in any way comparable nationally. Just that it is nice to see some faculties excelling and doing well. Not everything is "gloom and doom" as so many paint things on TV.

Edited October 14, 2009 by LawnGnome

[jasreeve17]

Yep, it's nice to see Mahidol doing well on the lists. I've been told that they have very good research, and large quatities of research which really helps to boost them up the lists.

Because we mostly work within Arts faculties; English departments, I tend to naturally focus on these areas. I've also done a lot of business work in Thailand where the very top people are almost always ex-Thammasart (just look at Samak ).

I reckon we should consider international comparables. Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore would. China aims high. If we have international programs then me must too. Mahidol was one of the first international programs and is thus well known, I'm sure you set your sights high, rightly so. Our top unis (and I'll include Chula, Thammasart, Mahidol, Kasesart, Cm, KK, Silpakorn ...) should be aiming at standards that would be comparable to the decent UK and US universities. Maybe that means the likes of the University of Dundee (say, top 50). Chula and Thammasart can aim at top 15 UK / US unis (or higher) with their top faculties, IMO.

[LawnGnome]

Just to mention, Mahidol's College of Music is "Top 2" in Southeast Asia, already. Not bad for a medical school lol

[jasreeve17]

Just to mention, Mahidol's College of Music is "Top 2" in Southeast Asia, already. Not bad for a medical school lol

Excellent, indeed.

[CWMcMurray]

I'm always shocked when Mahidol beats Thammasart in some pole or ranking...

I do not want to knock Thammasart, but in every ranking I have seen for the last few years it has never appeared on any on the international rankings and has been beaten by both Chula and Mahidol in the domestic rankings...

[Boudak]

Amazing survey! Would like to know what kind of methodology was conjured up to compare institutions across such a broad range. Comparing all these universities, the ones that made the list and the ones that didn't, had to be an overwhelming task. Worldwide? Impossible, IMO, to do so objectively. BTW, in a survey of US universities, Princeton and Harvard tied for first place.

[LawnGnome]

Amazing survey! Would like to know what kind of methodology was conjured up to compare institutions across such a broad range. Comparing all these universities, the ones that made the list and the ones that didn't, had to be an overwhelming task. Worldwide? Impossible, IMO, to do so objectively. BTW, in a survey of US universities, Princeton and Harvard tied for first place.

Amazing thing Google. When you put in world university rankings methodology - look what comes out...

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-...simple-overview

So simple even a monkey could do it. Well...maybe not a monkey...

[Xangsamhua]

Thanks for the Google link.

These rankings are kind of fun, especially if your own alma mater is high or rising, and there's probably not much contention that places like Harvard, Yale, MIT, Oxford and Cambridge are elite universities, whether for undergraduate or postgraduate study and research. Apart from that you'd need to know what you're looking for. For example, a university of my acquaintance is ranked 29 for Technology, 23 for Natural Sciences and 17 for Arts and Humanities - all good rankings, but much more enticing for a good Humanities student or scholar than a Technology one. For some reason the same university has an overall ranking of =36. Why is that? Not attracting enough international students (perhaps they don't need them; hence smaller quota)? Employers see them in a poorer light? It may have little to do with the quality of tuition and intellectual leadership available to students or quality supervision of postgraduate work.

The international criteria are interesting, especially in light of Thailand's attempts to attract more international students. Is the quality of the student taken into account? The length of time spent at the university? The availability of places? I would suggest there is substantial difference in academic ability between the average international student at Oxford and Harvard and those at many other universities. How is that weighted in the rankings? What about universities such as Al-Azhar in Cairo (not mentioned in the top 200) that would attract very good Qur'anic students from around the world? Or the university from which I got my MA in Theology, which is probably a pretty average university in e.g. Arts and Sciences, but has a very strong Theology faculty (being a Catholic university)?

I think in the US some universities constitute themselves as "teaching schools" and are dedicated to preparing undergraduates for either the workplace or graduate studies elsewhere. I could imagine that a young school-leaver could get a very good undergraduate education in a very supportive environment at a place like this and go on to graduate study at an institution more appropriate for that purpose. This kind of university would perhaps not rank highly on the Times HES-QS criteria.

In any case, comparisons are difficult from country to country. It's much easier to compare Oxford with Harvard or Manchester with Melbourne than any of these with Chulalongkorn, Mahidol or Thammasart. The latter are Thai institutions after all and function under different constraints and with different priorities from the aforesaid universities. They will evolve toward or away from expectations of the ranking criteria at their own pace and in their own way, though with some encouragement from their own reformers to be more internationally accountable.

[citizen33]

One oddity if you visit the Asian rankings section of the Times-QS website is that Mahidol is a couple of places above Chula there.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-...ersity-rankings

[Jimjim]

Just to add a bit of perspective....

135 CARDIFF University United Kingdom

136 University of GHENT Belgium

137 University of LIVERPOOL United Kingdom

138= CHULALONGKORN University Thailand

138= University of GRONINGEN Netherlands

140 VANDERBILT University United States

That solves it then, University of Liverpool just barely has a better ranking than Chula so I'm choosing them over Chula!

Edited October 21, 2009 by Jimjim

[calbears]

I think world university ranking is very subjective and does not reflect the comparative quality of education and research among those universities. There are so many variables that determine the quality of a school. It's hard to say one school is better than the other based on ranking from one company or institution.

The QS world university ranking has been very unpredictable. Their ranking has changed dramatically in the past few years. It has shifted to ranking Asian universities higher than any other rankings out there.

Here are some more rankings:

http://www.arwu.org/

http://www.webometrics.info/top6000.asp

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321230/print...splaymode/1098/

[Xangsamhua]

There's also the well-known Jiao Tong University ranking system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities), which emphasizes a university's academic and research performance, e.g. through academic awards and prizes/citations rather than things like peer/employer rating, international student/staff presence. With less emphasis on reputation and more on evidence of performance, this ranking system may be less culturally biased.

[BlackArtemis]

This is really good news. I am glad to see the continued upward progress.

I know some of these schools have an international MA/MS program. I plan on pursuing mine state side, but if time constraints came into play I wonder if I could manage a PHD at one of these schools.