Party For Newborn Baby

[Gumballl]

Hi everyone,

I posted a question elsewhere on TV (in the Hong Khlaay Khriat forum), but have not received any answers that directly address my question (I suppose that is the norm here on TV!).

Anyhow, my post is at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30633

Can anyone who is familiar with Thai customs and/or Buddhist religious ceremonies give me their opinion on this matter... Is it normal for a family to spends gobs of money on a ceremony/party for a 6-month old baby?

Thanks in advance!

[Kringle]

Gumball, I think you got some responses on the other thread but it really doesn't matter. I am married to a Thai lady and did NOT have a party for our baby being born and my wife never mentioned anything about this being a custom. If you want to throw a party then that is your biz. I spent the last 24 years in Hawaii and the Hawaiiians do a party (luau) for the kid making a year old but then that is because the kids used to not make it to the 1st birthday there years ago so it was a BIG thing if they did.

I would also agree withthe other guys in the other thread that the 50,000 baht figurre is out of line and should not be done.

He11 man, if you have money to burn, then do it or if you have to watch what you are going to spend in the future for this child (education and such) then don't.

A fool and his money are soon parted and I think some of these guys that have either the money to burn or are idiots might send you the wrong info. Do whatever is comfortable for you is mybest suggestion.

Cheers,

[Thomas_Merton]

Moving to another thread is not going to ease the nature of your replies to this question.

You have fathered a child – a human being not an old car or beat up piece of stereo, real estate or crate of beer, or anything else you may want to use your hard earned dollars on.

You are living in the States whilst your girlfriend and daughter and her family are living thousands of miles away in Thailand.

You should be giving every penny you earn to your Thai family. The only relevant question you should be asking is, “What is the bare minimum I need to exist in the USA, as yet another absentee father afraid to seriously take responsibility for my actions?”

Edited March 30, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[Gumballl]

Gumball, I think you got some responses on the other thread but it really doesn't matter. I am married to a Thai lady and did NOT have a party for our baby being born and my wife never mentioned anything about this being a custom. If you want to throw a party then that is your biz. I spent the last 24 years in Hawaii and the Hawaiiians do a party (luau) for the kid making a year old but then that is because the kids used to not make it to the 1st birthday there years ago so it was a BIG thing if they did.

  I would also agree withthe other guys in the other thread that the 50,000 baht figurre is out of line and should not be done.

  He11 man, if you have money to burn, then do it or if you have to watch what you are going to spend in the future for this child (education and such) then don't.

  A fool and his money are soon parted and I think some of these guys that have either the money to burn or are idiots might send you the wrong info. Do whatever is comfortable for you is mybest suggestion.

Cheers,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your input. You gave me the answer I was looking for (first paragraph, second sentence). As for spending 50K, I will try to see if I can get more feedback from my GF as to why the exhorbant amount.

Personally, I think that it is ridiculous to throw a party for a baby, or even buy gold for the baby. The baby will not be able to understand such things, and I think that the money would be best if left in a bank account to collect interest (as you mentioned, for an education and such).

[Gumballl]

Moving to another thread is not going to ease the nature of your replies to this question.

You have fathered a child – a human being not an old car or beat up piece of stereo, real estate or crate of beer, or anything else you may want to use your hard earned dollars on.

You are living in the States whilst your girlfriend and daughter and her family are living thousands of miles away in Thailand.

You should be giving every penny you earn to your Thai family. The only relevant question you should be asking is, “What is the bare minimum I need to exist in the USA, as yet another absentee father afraid to seriously take responsibility for my actions?”

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas, I think your views are a little extreme. Sending a wad of money, if not all, to the Thai family does not guarantee that the baby child will benefit from such. I think it would be better to save money in a trust fund, that the child can use when they reach a mature age.

Anyhow, FYI, I am sending the mother/child approximately 20K baht each month, as support, until I am able to bring them to the US (hopefully within the next 6-7 months).

The GF has no real expenses, since she is living at home with the parents. She does pay the electricity (for the aircon I installed in her room), and she buys food & clothing for the baby. Also there is the baby's monthly visit to the doctor for health checkup.

Here's the catch... If I do not send her the 50K for the "party", then she states that she will not come to the US, and hence I will not be able to be with my child. Since the word "blackmail" does not figure into the Thai venacular, it is hard to vent my frustration at the GF. Perhaps I should substitute "blackmail" with the word "bribe".

[Kringle]

Moving to another thread is not going to ease the nature of your replies to this question.

You have fathered a child – a human being not an old car or beat up piece of stereo, real estate or crate of beer, or anything else you may want to use your hard earned dollars on.

You are living in the States whilst your girlfriend and daughter and her family are living thousands of miles away in Thailand.

You should be giving every penny you earn to your Thai family. The only relevant question you should be asking is, “What is the bare minimum I need to exist in the USA, as yet another absentee father afraid to seriously take responsibility for my actions?”

I'm married to a Thai and have a beautiful little girl but I'll be damnnned if I'm going to give most of my money to her family. I married her, not her family. I do not and will not spend money to support her family and she says the same thing. To give OUR child the best that WE can does not mean living on the basics so we can support everyone else. We help when we can but that is it.

[Thomas_Merton]

  I'm married to a Thai and have a beautiful little girl but I'll be damnnned if I'm going to give most of my money to her family. I married her, not her family. I do not and will not spend money to support her family and she says the same thing. To give OUR child the best that WE can does not mean living on the basics so we can support everyone else. We help when we can but that is it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kringle, I accept your point of view - I don't share it, but all families and circumstances are not the same.

But what separates you from Gumball is the fact you have taken responsibility for your actions and married your Thai girl and are quite rightly sharing your parental responsibilities with your wife.

Gumball is in the States and all he is worrying about is, is his Thai family "blackmailing" or "bribing" him.

You bet your life they are. Because seen from their eyes, on just a whim, can Gumball cut them off and forget them. What is there to stop him?

And then who is going to take care of his girlfriend and their daughter?

[Gumballl]

  I'm married to a Thai and have a beautiful little girl but I'll be damnnned if I'm going to give most of my money to her family. I married her, not her family. I do not and will not spend money to support her family and she says the same thing. To give OUR child the best that WE can does not mean living on the basics so we can support everyone else. We help when we can but that is it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kringle, I accept your point of view - I don't share it, but all families and circumstances are not the same.

But what separates you from Gumball is the fact you have taken responsibility for your actions and married your Thai girl and are quite rightly sharing your parental responsibilities with your wife.

Gumball is in the States and all he is worrying about is, is his Thai family "blackmailing" or "bribing" him.

You bet your life they are. Because seen from their eyes, on just a whim, can Gumball cut them off and forget them. What is there to stop him?

And then who is going to take care of his girlfriend and their daughter?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thomas,

If I give in to this request, then what is to stop the GF, or her family, for asking for more, and more, and more.

If the 50K is for something legitimate, then I would gladly give the money. But my GF has not come forward with the true reason for the money. I cannot believe that a poor family such as hers, would plan a 50K party. After all, her father has had 6 kids... I cannot believe that he had spent 50K, or even 10K, on each of his kids when they were babies for a party!

I have repeatedly asked the GF for clarification as to why she needs the money, and all she states is that it is for a party, and because I am not Thai, I cannot understand.

Sorry, but from where I come from, that is not an acceptable answer. Imagine if your spouse (or GF, whichever is the case) were to ask you for a substantial amount of money, but didn't give you a reason why she needs it, other than to throw a party for 150-200 neighbours. Would you pay?

I work hard for the money I earn, so that I can support myself, and my child. But I will be damned if I am going to wine/dine every person in the neighbourhood just because my GF wants to.

What my GF, and perhaps most Thais, need to realise is that not every farang has a money tree.

[Thomas_Merton]

I have repeatedly asked the GF for clarification as to why she needs the money, and all she states is that it is for a party, and because I am not Thai, I cannot understand.

Sorry, but from where I come from, that is not an acceptable answer....

This is a curious moral position you are adopting here. Especially when, where you are coming from, it appears to be perfectly acceptable to make a young woman pregnant, leave her and your child and return to the comforts of farang life.

No wonder many Thais think farangs have the moral character of something between a snake and a dog.

Live up to your responsibilities, man. Use your money to return to Thailand; marry your girl; be a father to your daughter.

And then you can help them get their visas together with them in Thailand.

Perhaps then the rest of your Thai family might begin to believe in you.

You never know you could become a Nr.1 son.

[Gumballl]

Live up to your responsibilities, man. Use your money to return to Thailand; marry your girl; be a father to your daughter.

Thomas,

As much as I wish could, I cannot return to Thailand at this time. I just started a new job, and it would not look good to immediately take a week or two off. Prior to this, I was out of work for 14 months, spending over 8 months of this time in Thailand with the GF; the other period looking for work (here in the US).

As for my GF, we are "married". We did participate in a Thai wedding ceremony last year (Feb 28, 2004), however we did not register our marriage at the local Amphur. Hence the marriage is not a legal unification.

I recommended that we take this path because it takes 1 year, if not more, to get a visa for a spouse to come to the US. (I've been there, done this before, with ex-wife). For a fiance, the process only lasts about 6 months or so.

Anyhow, if you want to continue saying that I did a stupid thing, and that I shouldn't have had a kid, then fine. I already know that. But it is a little late to worry about what I should have done. I must now deal with what I have done.

As for the GF, she is not upfront with me, clamps up when I ask direct questions about where she spends the money I have been giving her, and other issues concerning this Buddhist ceremony/party she claims is "normal" to hold for newborn babies.

In the many times I have been to Thailand, I have met but two types of women: 1) the honest and kind/giving type, and 2) the deceptive type. My GF falls under the latter category, although you never would have guessed in the first few months after I met/married her.

I will support my baby girl, but whether or not the mother decides to spend the money I send on something constructive is the real issue. I think that this party she wants to throw is a waste of money, and there is no justification for it; well, at least none that she, or you, have given me.

Anyhow, to put my OP back on topic, I was only really hoping to hear from TV members whether they have heard of ceremonies/parties being thrown in honour of a newborn child. So far, I have only had one constructive reply concerning my OP (thanks Kringle). I am hoping to receive more replies, and hopefully not the type that judges whether I am a good father or not. If Thai law permitted, I would take custody of the child, and bring her to the US. As it is now, I am beginning to believe that the GF (or perhaps her family) is merely using the baby as a bargaining chip to drum money out of me for purposes unrelated to the upbringing of the child.

Edited March 30, 2005 by Gumballl

[Thomas_Merton]

As much as I wish could, I cannot return to Thailand at this time.  I just started a new job, and it would not look good to immediately take a week or two off.  Prior to this, I was out of work for 14 months, spending over 8 months of this time in Thailand with the GF; the other period looking for work (here in the US).

As for my GF, we are "married".  We did participate in a Thai wedding ceremony last year (Feb 28, 2004), however we did not register our marriage at the local Amphur.  Hence the marriage is not a legal unification.

Now, either you are just winding me up (and this is the conclusion I am reaching, so this will be my last posting) or...so just in case you are not:

You must have been penniless to be able to spend 8 months in Thailand considering you were unemployed for 14 months.

You seem to me the sort of person that can find all sorts of wonderful reasons for not doing the responsible thing whilst at the same time displaying a marked inability to understand the motivations and requirements of your Thai family.

Send your wife the money and tell her it will be the last from you. This will be cheaper for you and in the end better for your Thai family. They will be able to realistically plan for their future whilst being able to wash their hands of the farang looser they once thought they knew.

[Gumballl]

As much as I wish could, I cannot return to Thailand at this time.  I just started a new job, and it would not look good to immediately take a week or two off.  Prior to this, I was out of work for 14 months, spending over 8 months of this time in Thailand with the GF; the other period looking for work (here in the US).

As for my GF, we are "married".  We did participate in a Thai wedding ceremony last year (Feb 28, 2004), however we did not register our marriage at the local Amphur.  Hence the marriage is not a legal unification.

Now, either you are just winding me up (and this is the conclusion I am reaching, so this will be my last posting) or...so just in case you are not:

You must have been penniless to be able to spend 8 months in Thailand considering you were unemployed for 14 months.

You seem to me the sort of person that can find all sorts of wonderful reasons for not doing the responsible thing whilst at the same time displaying a marked inability to understand the motivations and requirements of your Thai family.

Send your wife the money and tell her it will be the last from you. This will be cheaper for you and in the end better for your Thai family. They will be able to realistically plan for their future whilst being able to wash their hands of the farang looser they once thought they knew.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TM -

I have a great idea... why don't you be a "hero" and give me the 50K, and will cheerfully pass it on to my TGF's family. That way, everybody will be happy.

If you disagree with this proposition, then I think you should refrain from making anymore comments. You don't have the slightest clue of the circumstances surrounding my relationship with my GF, much less all the crap I have gone thru to help her thus far. She simply is scamming me for more money. Period!

Surely you've heard the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". I have given in to my GF's requests (for money) in the past, but I am sure as heck not going to cave in this time to satisfy your insignificant sense of morality.

[RamdomChances]

Just to throw a spanner in the works.

Thais do have parties/blessings for new born children, but its not that comman and usually its just the better off families. it does not need to be expensive and even with a few hundred 50,000 sounds a lot as you are just looking at food and some money for the monks. you could even just go and "tam boon" at the local wat and give food to the monks (usually 7) probably a few thou.

Buying gold for the baby it very comman here and is considered good luck, it is'nt usually a lot up-to 1 bhat, we bought my nephew a 2 salung (0.5 bhat) chain and you often see babies with ankle/neck chains. You have to relise that most thais view gold as money in the bank.

[Gumballl]

Just to throw a spanner in the works.

Thais do have parties/blessings for new born children, but its not that comman and usually its just the better off families. it does not need to be expensive and even with a few hundred 50,000 sounds a lot as you are just looking at food and some money for the monks. you could even just go and "tam boon" at the local wat and give food to the monks (usually 7) probably a few thou.

Buying gold for the baby it very comman here and is considered good luck, it is'nt usually a lot up-to 1 bhat, we bought my nephew a 2 salung (0.5 bhat) chain and you often see babies with ankle/neck chains. You have to relise that most thais view gold as money in the bank.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RC -

Thank you so much for your post. You have shed a little bit of more light onto the Thai customs that I am so unfamiliar with. My GF speaks very little English, and has had a hard time explaining to me what is it that she wants to do for the baby. All I know is that it is something religious, and I think your answer may be what she is referring to.

Now I just hope she will accept a little less money, than 50K, and still be happy. (my fingers are crossed!)

[Kringle]

Merton, I agree the guy needs to be "responsible" for his actions as that is only the moral and correct thing to do. I just don't think a 50k party is right either.

Random Chances is also correct and I have seen babies with anklelettes and necklaces. My mother-in-law even bought a very small one for our daughter.

Gumball, I think the main thing the guys here want to hear from you is that you are going to take care of the GF and the baby as that is the most important part of this whole scenario. There are a lot of guys that do get their GF pregnant and go running off and it's not just farangs but the Thais themselves. I've met many Thai women that were abandoned when their baby came along and it just makes life hard for the GF and the baby. Take the responsibilities that are yours now and everyone here and I'm sure with her family will be happy.

good luck,

[sabaijai]

Moved to General Topics.

[Dragonman]

Agree with Kringle and Random. Half baht gold fine plus small party. Of course Thais will ask for most money they think they can get away with. My wife did.10,000-20,000 baht very big party. My reception for 150 guests drinking and eating all day,plus a show and disco was only 20,000.

Without doubt if you sent the money there would be a small party, Thai style, family getting drunk on whisky and the rest would buy cows, motorbike,etc.

When you go to Thailand next buy things for the kid and in the meantime send what you can afford but not too much as this will certainly be spent on family comforts,including alcohol.$300 a month will certainly give a good lifestyle to girlfriend and baby.

[tuky]

Gumball, we took our newborn girl to the wat for a blessing. Her head was shaved and we gave a small amount of money to the monks. I am not nearly an expert but this seems to be the thing to do. We also bought her two gold wrist bracelets that she tried to eat so never wears.

I perhaps suggest sending 10k baht and tell your wife that you want to see her gold when you get back. This will help solve two immediate problems, the "thai face" situation regarding the gold and the religous aspect regarding the blessing.

The other problem you face is a trust problem from I can work out, this you need to sort out between yourself and your wife, no matter how many people reply to your question here that answer will never come.

I am sure you want to trust your wife, but you need to find that out yourself.

Best of luck mate, but remember all we can do here is give advice the rest is up to you.

BTW congrats on your new baby, have you seen any photos?

here is a pic of my little girl

[siamesekitty]

As Kringle, Random, Dragonman and tukyleith have told you, there is such a ceremony/party. I had one myself, and so did my little brother. However, my cousin did not hold one for her kids, so it just depends on how "traditional" you are I suppose.

As for the cost it'll depend on the location, number of people, and status. The gold necklace might seem silly at first when she won't understand now, but she will appreciate it when she grows up and Mommy shows her the pictures and tells her where that necklace came from. I've seen mine and I still keep the tiny ankle bracelets my dear aunties gave me.

Edited March 31, 2005 by siamesekitty

[aletta]

Around here they don't throw a party for a newborn,but do buy a couple of small gold bracelets if they have the cash.

[Gumballl]

I just woke up from a good night's sleep, and this morning I had the opportunity to read the latest posts to this topic. Thanks for all of your answers!

This is what I have concluded from the answers given: The ceremony for a newborn child is practiced by some, and by others, it is not. Gold is the typical gift given to the child. Food (and presumably something to drink) is given to monks at a Wat or at the mother's home. Hair of baby is shaven. Family and neighbours are treated to food and libations. Everyone is happy.

Apparently my TGF comes from a Thai family that believes in practicing this type of ceremony (and maybe so because she is "married" to a farang). From what has been posted, it would seem that 50K baht for this type of celebration is a bit steep, but since I will not be able to attend, I will probably never know whether this is true or not, much less where the money will be spent. (hmm, maybe I should ask for receipts!)

Every month I support my TGF and the baby with what I can afford: 20K baht (US$500). I don't quite understand how my TGF can conscienciously (sp?) spend all of this money each month, but she does. I guess some Thais do not believe in moderation when it comes to spending, nor any thought about saving money for the future.

The ceremony that my TGF wants to hold will take place in May. That gives me 2 months to come up with the 50K (US$1250), on top of the 20K I already send her.

Can I afford this... sure. But like most people who do not have too much money to toss around, I began this topic by trying to determine if a Thai Buddhist ceremony for newborn babies does indeed exist. I have found the answer to be Yes, but yet not practiced by many Thai families.

Now, as to whether the 50K expenditure is justifiable, well that's a different issue altogether.

Cheers, and a warm thanks to all for your responses!

P.S. Sorry I am unable to post photos of my baby at this time; I'm not quite sure how to do this.

[ProfessorFart]

Thomas Merton,

Taking the moral high ground against someone you know nothing about apart from the fact that they are in the US, and their wife and child are in Thailand only shows you to be a judgmental idiot.

The way you bumbled through your subsequent responses highlighted that nicely and your absence since Gumball has mentioned that he does indeed face up to his responsibilities should hopefully teach you not to mouth off until you know the full story.

I wonder if YOU would send over 1000US$ off to your wife's family just to wet the baby's head? I somehow seriously doubt it.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas Merton,

Taking the moral high ground against someone you know nothing about apart from the fact that they are in the US, and their wife and child are in Thailand only shows you to be a judgmental idiot.

Mea Culpa - apologies if I have offended yours or anyone else sensibilities.

However, you also know nothing of me, apart from what I write. Although I will accept you may not always agree with me, perhaps you also should pause before you rush to the judgments you perhaps rightly accuse me of.

The way you bumbled through your subsequent responses highlighted that nicely and your absence since Gumball has mentioned that he does indeed face up to his responsibilities should hopefully teach you not to mouth off until you know the full story.

I wonder if YOU would send over 1000US$ off to your wife's family just to wet the baby's head? I somehow seriously doubt it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this particular case, I have not “preached” anything that I have not myself practised.

But keep you eyes open I sure there will be lots of other times where you can spam me and call me names. I will, like most here on this site, more than once go over the line.

After all this is the nature of anonymous forums.

To misquote Billy Connelly, the reason you and I write here is because if we said what we write here in the pub, we would get beaten up.

[sabaijai]

I guess some Thais do not believe in moderation when it comes to spending, nor any thought about saving money for the future.

That's an understatement ... or rather a valid cultural observation. Ask anyone who has counselled Thai/farang couples - or ask the couples themselves - and you'll find this is almost always a point of friction in the relationship.

The farang attitude is usually 'Why can't the Thais be more frugal?' but I think it pays to look at the flip side, ie, the Thai attitude 'Why are farangs so worried about money all the time?'

I've tried explaining to my spouse that if we spend more today we'll have less to spend tomorrow. Her retort, of course, is, if we save for tomorrow then we'll have less to spend today ...

[Diggerbasher]

No parties when my children were born,just stuck some cash in an account.

Living in the moment is a core of buddhism so Thais tend not to worry about the future and rack up the biggest dept possible through spending all they have.Thats why they have so little and all the Chinese and Vietnamese own all the businesses.