Animal Farming In Thailand

[femi fan]

I've just finished reading a graphic account of how animals are reared for meat consumption in america.

Although i don't eat a lot of meat any more, if they rear animals the same way in thailand, i'm off meat and dairy all together!

Do posters know exactly how chickens and cows (or whatever other source of 'beef') and fish are reared? Are they fed hormones and antibiotics? Are chickens debeaked and kept cooped up in cages for their whole lives? What are the fish in fish farms fed? And what sort of lives do they have?

And just what food is fed to these animals?

I've not asked about pigs because i gave up pork a while ago.

[Maizefarmer]

Sadly, farm animal welfare does leave a lot to be desired as an industry, but it also has some plus points as an industry over the USA and over Westernised countries - it is by and large no where near intensive as it is in the 1st world, and the use of hormones and other growth additives is not near the scale it is in those countries.

The difference between most livestock rearing in South East Asia versus the 1st world/West is that "welfare problems" tend to be the indiviudal farm level, as opposed to been unregulated and institutionalised "welfare problems" - and they are by circumstance primarily, not by choice. The beef and dairy markets in South East Asia are not near as developed as they are in the West, and the economic factors that influence decision taking in these areas of the ag industry are dissimilar in many respects to those that influence margins in 1st world developed countries e.g. milk protein and butter fat levels do not have the impact on farm income here like they do in many parts of the 1st world - its a volume/mass based income only (which partly explains the difference in taste between milk produced here in South Aeast Asia versus the West - levels are very low comparitively speaking), not fat/protein quality based. That translates into reduced feed costs.

Aquaculture, chicken and pig farming (as opposed to dairy and beef) is another thing - there is large scale ab[use] of growth hormone and pesticide in feed - but in contrast to cattle rearing, the problems in these sectors of the ag ndustry tend to be more at the feed production level (as opposed to been at the indiviudal farm level) and the average farmer has little idea of whats in the feed he is buying. All he/she is looking at are conversion rates i.e. which feed is giving them the best growth rate for the money spent.

Both the aquaculture, pig and chciken production industries are often highlighted for poor sanitation and high stocking levels - which lead to all the problems that stem from over stocking. Foot & mouth is a big problem in pig rearing. In all 3 sectors these are problems directly related to farm gate prices and margins - no such thing as European subsidies, its each farmer for himself.

The other problem is education - while the big corporate farms like those belonging to CP Group, and the farmers contracted to supply CP group, run on semi-established industrial formula's, the lot of the average independant farmer is very different. Their farms are a lot smaller, and their production techniques tend to be more old fashioned and traditional than the corporate groups. The welfare problems at this level tend to be welfare problems associated with circumstance, not choice e.g. they don;t have space to give animals reccomended space, when animals get sick they often don't have funds to use vet services.

Its a subject that will take up a book to discuss at meaning ful level. I think the question should be: is unprocessed food safe to eat in Thailand - and the answer by & large has to be yes - turnover volumes are high meaning meat purchased at the open market (which would have had limited refrigeration since slughter) is unlikely to be unsafe. Fish offered for sale in the morning would more than likely not have been frozen, only because it was harvested the night before. Of couse there are exceptions, but by and large its a safe way of buying food.

Other nice thing about local open markets is that the produce is mostly local stuff, off local famrs within a 20kilometer or so radius - it is very much a local economy, where as food from Carrefore or Tesco Lotus could come from anywhere in South East Asia, and rrather than animal welfare been the long term problem on the local level, I think the problems associated with allowing single brandname retailers to dominate unprocessed food sales on the scale that Teco Lotus is now doing in Thailand, present far more problems and have far more long term [negative] impact on communties and the farmers in them that strive to continue to produce food independantly (and hence animal welfare).

So the best thing you can do to help eliminate animal welfare problems in food production, is support production by way of buying locally produced food at the local market level.

[drtreelove]

Don't just read about it, make it a mission to go to some farms and see where the food you eat comes from.

What kind of lives do they lead? You must be joking. Those types of questions should not be asked, only - How do you want your steak or burger?

Supply and demand is the name of the game, not raising happy cuddly creatures.

Check it out for yourself before you decide on vegetarianism or growing your own organically -- or joining PETA.

Edited October 19, 2009 by drtreelove

[femi fan]

So the best thing you can do to help eliminate animal welfare problems in food production, is support production by way of buying locally produced food at the local market level.

Thanks for the long and detailed reply.

This last comment is a key one i think. I guess i was kind of hoping that people would have direct experience of fish farms and chicken farms. But as drteelove mentions, maybe best to go to them. Assuming i can find out where they might be!

I was also asking my wife how we could know if we were buying a river or sea fish (latter unlikely up here in chiang mai) or a farmed fish.

But it does sound from your reply and some basic logical common sense that in a local-market oriented society such as thailand that foods will be safer than in US or much of europe.

To be honest i don't eat much meat anymore at all. I just still have this idea that i need it in my diet, although i understand i don't, and that when going out for dinner, a pastime i like very much in thailand, it's not easy to avoid meat dishes.

[drtreelove]

I was also asking my wife how we could know if we were buying a river or sea fish (latter unlikely up here in chiang mai) or a farmed fish.

Regarding fish, you can easily learn which fish are ocean fish and which are fresh water. There are some popular wall charts available on the fish of Thailand; I've seen two posters, marine fish and fresh water fish. If you are in Chiang Mai you can probably find these at Surawong Books or DK Books (the charts not the fish).

The fresh water fish in the market are usually farmed I believe, pla nin, tub tim, etc. There may be some species that come from the rivers, but I doubt if its much of the volume. Other members here can probably give you more information on feed, etc than I can. But I have two friends with active market fish ponds; one a expat from New Zealand who buys commercial fish food pellets. The other is my daughter's boyfriend's father, a Thai organic farmer (of a sort) in Mae Taeng. He has built his chicken coops out on stilts over the water so that the chicken droppings fall into the water. He supplements that with commercial fish food pellets. I live near Mae Jo University and the large fisheries department, and I see them feeding with pellets and I don't see any chicken coops there. The water is circulated and populations controlled.

My wife used to produce and distribute fish balls (no not reproductive organs, the kind you cook in kuaytiew look chin pla, fish ball noodle soup). She ordered a certain species of ocean fish from Bangkok and had it shipped on ice (not frozen) overnight, so I believe these fish were a day or two out of the water when she got them. I suspect that other market fish will be about the same. How long they are on ice or on the table at the "fresh" market, will vary, but they seem to be handled relatively well.

When my wife shops for fish, whether in the market or Lotus or Rimping, she chooses the fish with the brightest, clearest eyes as a sign of freshness and avoids the ones with milky, glazed over eyes.

The ecological and other aspects of the health of the oceans and fishery practices are another matter if you are so inclined to put that info into your decision of which species to eat, or not. But I think from the standpoint of buying relatively healthy food, fish are a good bet. I hope so, we eat fish regularly. We are determined to cook them well. Undercooked chicken and fish are primary causes of gasto-intestinal illness here.

If you are in CM I could show you an egg farm in Mae Jo, but I can tell you it isn't real pretty, even though it is one of the better ones I've seen. There are hundreds of chickens in small cages, cranking out eggs that roll out on the wire to be gathered. If you want free-range you need to arrange with a neighbor or villager, if you buy in the market they will surely be from chickens on wire, unless you buy from a farmer with a roadside stand. Buy in the morning if not from an airconditioned supermarket, because eggs are not refrigerated when the sit on the table in the sun all day.

And the same goes with other meats, if you buy from the market you will usually be getting product that is purchased daily from the large commercial farmers and the conditions are, well, like I said, supply and demand. If you have time and inclination, seek out small independent farmers where you can buy direct and know what you are getting.

In the US I used to fish and hunt wild game in season for that reason, and keep a big deep freezer stocked. I don't like to kill, but it meant really clean, healthy, food for my family.

Edited October 20, 2009 by drtreelove