Scandalous, Extortionate Fedex Fees!

[hhgz]

"Scandalous, Extortionate Fedex Fees!, Ordered health supplements online - FedEx extorting money..."

Oh, please. You could have checked the FedEx shipping rates before you shipped something, not after. You could have checked with competitors to find the lowest rate, and you neglected to do so. You made a bad decision, and you're blaming other people.

[asia_pilot]

i would like to add that many vendors will not ship out of their comfort zone due to customer reactions exactly like this. it is not feasible to for a seller to understand the vagaries of each and every country they may have to ship to.

every seller makes the same disclaimer.

Don't be ridiculous. Swanson's is a huge operation shipping their products worldwide every day. Their "comfort zone" is bringing in revenue from the four corners of the earth. They know exactly what's what. If they don't then they shouldn't be in the business.

you are correct, i am being ridiculous. i am sure that swanson's do a booming export business to thailand.

i will now make way in favour of people who tell you what you want to hear.

All about a THB1,200 Service charge for a service he will be given. ( getting his drugs through customs ). As suggest earlier, refuse to pay and clear it on your own. You have placed an international order - not domestic. In this case YOU are the importer. Swansons has nothing to do with your import. FedEx is trying to help you with the import but you are complaining and complaing just because you have realised after your order that your drugs are now more expensive.

Yes - Dont accept the package, file a charge back with your credit card and be happy with your decission. Make others loose money because of your mistakes. Oh I forgot Swansons makes hudge money, they can eat the loss. Poeple like you are the reason why my company in the USA don't ship internationally anymore.

I suggest to the OP to do his shopping in retail stores and not online. Blaming FedEx for his unknown and no reading before ordering is ridiculous.

Edited October 24, 2009 by asia_pilot

[tig28]

Three times in the last 2 years I have imported supplements from the US. Luckily on all occasions they were sent via post. Absolutely no problem -- but I fully understand this is a matter of chance. Should I encounter duty or similar charges with my orders that would simply be my bad luck.

The concept that an exporter in the US would have full knowledge of the import regulations for each different product they supply for each country they receive orders from is obviously pretty obviously silly. That would be impossible. Hence -- I suggest -- the disclaimer:

Please be advised that Swanson Health Products is not responsible for taxes and/or duties or any brokerage and/or delivery fees applied to international shipments. Also, we kindly request that you contact your customs office to thoroughly inquire about import regulations before placing your order, as we will not be liable for packages refused or held for delivery.

This is a pretty standard declaration from this type of supplier.

Your entire "problem" is hardly caused by Fedex ---- maybe You should write to Thai customs and explain how you feel you should not pay as you did not realise Thailand might apply charges to your imported pills ???

[Bearnagh]

i would like to add that many vendors will not ship out of their comfort zone due to customer reactions exactly like this. it is not feasible to for a seller to understand the vagaries of each and every country they may have to ship to.

every seller makes the same disclaimer.

Don't be ridiculous. Swanson's is a huge operation shipping their products worldwide every day. Their "comfort zone" is bringing in revenue from the four corners of the earth. They know exactly what's what. If they don't then they shouldn't be in the business.

you are correct, i am being ridiculous. i am sure that swanson's do a booming export business to thailand.

i will now make way in favour of people who tell you what you want to hear.

All about a THB1,200 Service charge for a service he will be given. ( getting his drugs through customs ). As suggest earlier, refuse to pay and clear it on your own. You have placed an international order - not domestic. In this case YOU are the importer. Swansons has nothing to do with your import. FedEx is trying to help you with the import but you are complaining and complaing just because you have realised after your order that your drugs are now more expensive.

Yes - Dont accept the package, file a charge back with your credit card and be happy with your decission. Make others loose money because of your mistakes. Oh I forgot Swansons makes hudge money, they can eat the loss. Poeple like you are the reason why my company in the USA don't ship internationally anymore.

I suggest to the OP to do his shopping in retail stores and not online. Blaming FedEx for his unknown and no reading before ordering is ridiculous.

Decide whether you are talking in the second person or the third person and try this again. Then it might make sense. Don't you have some Jumbos or Airbuses to land somewhere?

Edited October 24, 2009 by Bearnagh

[Hawk]

it seems to me many posters on this thread, including the op, have very little experience ordering online.

anytime you use a courier (dhl, fedex etc.) to thailand, you are subject to duty. sending registered mail, while it may take longer, rarely involves duty, though occasionally customs do wake up and levy an arbitrary charge.

I have ordered 100s of things on line and have only ever had problems when the likes of Fed ex or DHL get involved.

And not every item sent to Thailand is up for tax, there are many thousands of things that are tax exempt if you bother to check it out. Only employees of Fed ex place a "tax" on one's parcel.

The employees of Fed ex here in Thailand are up to monkey business, as I have experienced their scams first had, so I know. Therefore, if a seller wants to send my goods via Fed ex then I don't order from them, simple.

[Bearnagh]

"Scandalous, Extortionate Fedex Fees!, Ordered health supplements online - FedEx extorting money..."

Oh, please. You could have checked the FedEx shipping rates before you shipped something, not after. You could have checked with competitors to find the lowest rate, and you neglected to do so. You made a bad decision, and you're blaming other people.

I suggest you haven't read the entire thread. This issue has been covered & well answered already - more than once.

[Hawk]

All about a THB1,200 Service charge for a service he will be given. ( getting his drugs through customs ). As suggest earlier, refuse to pay and clear it on your own. You have placed an international order - not domestic. In this case YOU are the importer. Swansons has nothing to do with your import. FedEx is trying to help you with the import but you are complaining and complaing just because you have realised after your order that your drugs are now more expensive.

Yes - Dont accept the package, file a charge back with your credit card and be happy with your decission. Make others loose money because of your mistakes. Oh I forgot Swansons makes hudge money, they can eat the loss. Poeple like you are the reason why my company in the USA don't ship internationally anymore.

I suggest to the OP to do his shopping in retail stores and not online. Blaming FedEx for his unknown and no reading before ordering is ridiculous.

It is you who are wrong, as many ordinary items are tax exempt and only become "taxable" when Fed ex becomes involved. So, the OP has every right to complain when he is being set up by these unscrupulous couriers.

And why not refuse to be ripped off, darn right, only a loon pays through the nose like a sheep. Yes, the people who actually lose out are the employees of Fed ex as they don't get their tea money.

And the reason some companies don't post to certain countries is because of theft by postal workers in that country.

Its people like you, Mr sheep who blindly follow what you are told to do by cheats and scammers and then you try and get others to follow your own mistakes by trying to belittle them.

I for one am not going to be ripped of by some muppet in Fed ex, but if you want to be then thats your choice but don't bleat on here that others should follow your example.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Hawk

[NanLaew]

To the OP. first you claim that the vendor never made any effort to inform you of possible surcharges. After someone goes to their website and discovers that they do actually give a detailed warning about this which you assume in their terms & conditions, you say that this is insufficient. Someone points out this information is in the FAQ list which you again say is the wrong place. I reckon even if they had posted it in red and it popped up in the ordering process, you would claim that it was in the wrong colour or typeface and didn't get your attention.

You chose to enter into a financial transaction and did not read their terms & conditions or their FAQ's. What would you suggest? Maybe a personal international phone call from Swansons sometime between reviewing your order online and hitting the 'Place Order' button where some honey-toned sales girl implicitly warns you that there may be surcharges? No... probably you would say that you didn't understand her because of her funny accent or she never specifically said exactly how much these charges would be either.

[asia_pilot]

[Decide whether you are talking in the second person or the third person and try this again. Then it might make sense. Don't you have some Jumbos or Airbuses to land somewhere?

As an english teacher you should be able to read the FAQ's, dont you ? I am sorry that english is not my mother language.

The 1,200THB FedEx is asking for are neighter 'tea money' nor Tax'n'duties. It's seems that you just don't know what you are writing. This is a fee for FedEx Thailand to get a customs clearance. This does not mean you have to pay tax. But it still has to be checked and go through customs.

You pay the $30.00 to FedEx, UPS etc in every country for their customs clearance.

Again, if you feel you can do this on your own, just let FedEx know that you are clearing the item yourself and you don't have to pay it. But be aware with stuff like food and drugs I am pretty sure it's not simple one form.

No need to insult others.

Edited October 24, 2009 by asia_pilot

[Bearnagh]

To the OP. first you claim that the vendor never made any effort to inform you of possible surcharges. After someone goes to their website and discovers that they do actually give a detailed warning about this which you assume in their terms & conditions, you say that this is insufficient. Someone points out this information is in the FAQ list which you again say is the wrong place. I reckon even if they had posted it in red and it popped up in the ordering process, you would claim that it was in the wrong colour or typeface and didn't get your attention.

You chose to enter into a financial transaction and did not read their terms & conditions or their FAQ's. What would you suggest? Maybe a personal international phone call from Swansons sometime between reviewing your order online and hitting the 'Place Order' button where some honey-toned sales girl implicitly warns you that there may be surcharges? No... probably you would say that you didn't understand her because of her funny accent or she never specifically said exactly how much these charges would be either.

Oh look... another entertainer, comedian and raconteur. Isn't TV so lucky to have so much of this expertise on tap to amuse the readership? Give him some polite applause out of courtesy folks.

[NanLaew]

I ship regularly to/from the US, UK and Thailand using FedEx and DHL. They are a fast and usually secure alternative to 'parcel post' which has an even spottier reputation, ie. USPS 'international tracking' stops when a package leaves the continental US and there's no way of knowing where something gets 'lost' once inside Thailand. The reputation for non- EMS postal items inside the country coming up missing is legend in Thailand. The international courier services are for urgent, priority or bulk items and I can't see where herbal supplements are in that category, but I digress. When filing a shipment, online or with an agent, the paper trail required to support such a transaction can be quite onerous and the US has some of the strictest rules and regulations on what documentation and checks the courier services and their customers are legally obliged to provide.

The OP's main bitch could be leveled at AND LIMITED TO Swanson because in his/her stated opinion, they did not specifically state the OP would be liable for any additional charges. However, the onus is on the PURCHASER to ensure what he is ordering and paying for is absolutely correct and also to ensure that shipping & handling services that he is buying actually applies in the destination country. If the cost of the FedEx shipping in this instance was already considered extortionate (before the legitimate claims for more money once the package arrived in Thailand) then the OP should simply have not completed the purchase. As some others have pointed out, much more attention is being paid by Thai Customs to stuff arriving in 'plain brown wrapping' from overseas and herbal supplements can be in a gray area between food stuffs and pharmaceuticals.

To infer that FedEx has some form of organised scam going on, maybe in collusion with the Thai Customs people, is all a bit of a stretch and maybe a tad libelous.

Edited October 24, 2009 by NanLaew

[Felt 35]

Bearnagh.

There are pharmacies in Australia / New Zealand which ship free worldwide and postman deliver on your door. Not sure they have your stuff, but can be worth checking out.

[andyww]

As someone who sells online and sends out to pretty much every country, let me present the other side of the fence.

On our website we have a clear statement that we cannot be responsible for import tax and handling fees imposed by destination countries. It would appear that warning was rather hidden on the OPs vendor site. But thats the only issue where the vendor could have done a little better. Overall its not their nor Fedex problem.

The fees imposed are nothing to do with the courier themselves. Neither the courier nor the shipper has any clue as to whether customs will intercept the parcel and impose import tax or not. Most countries have a threshold limit below which all packages are let through, and also some packages above the limit also get through. Its a bit of a lottery.

Americans dont understand any of this becasue the USA is alone in the worls in pretty much never imposing any import duty at all even on fairly large shipments.

We are very reluctant to sent to many countries, especially South American countries, because of high import tax and possible complaints by the buyer. If a buyer refuses to accept a package (as hes been suggested here) we have a really serious problem, because we have to refund the sale, and we also would need to pay the full cost (not our discounted cost) of having the item returned to us (or have it discarded). If the customer were to issue a card chargeback we would also pay a chargeback fine.

It is true that if import tax is imposed the courier will add a handling fee. This is not a revenue stream for them, its the cost of doing the admin.

Its completely incorrect to suggest that sending by mail avoids these charges. The situation is no different. There might be a perception of this because packages which are sent by this risky method temd to be lower value, thus below the threshold level. Sending by mail is also a lottery as to whether it arrives, with some countries worse than others. For example pretty much anything sent to France or Spain by mail will not arrive.

The scandalous thing about all these international clearance fees is that all of the revenue goes to cover the cost of charging it. So the whole system in every country exists solely to keep public servants employed. Its a great credit to the USA that they dont bother with any of this crap although Obama has made statements to the effect he wants to start imposing more import taxes. Also, there is an intention to start taxing air cargo for "climate change" reasons so this will double shipping costs.

[spaceshipcrew]

2 times a year I have a 10 kilo box containing 55.000 bath worth of medical goods send from Eu just by registered mail and never had any problem, never had to pay tax etc. I suggest take a post office box at the official postoffice, almost for free, and have it send by a friend not by a company.

For mail Thai Post is very good, the past 14 years never something has been lost, in both directions Thai>Eu and Eu>Thai.

Compare with the postal service in the Philippines that's really big crap. A simple letter or small package usually takes 3 - 4 months before it's being delivered.

Edited October 25, 2009 by spaceshipcrew

[gennisis]

Hi,

A Farang friend of mine suggested that I buy some herbal supplements from Swanson's in the USA, as they are virtually impossible to source in Thailand. I placed my order a couple of weeks ago and the total, including the shipping, came to $25.46 for the tablets and a staggering $24.46 to ship it by FedEx!. OK so Mr. FedEx did rather well out of that small purchase of three bottles of pills.

It gets worse... Yesterday I got an email from FedEx (Thailand) containing what seems to be some sort of delaration form about the contents of my package which has now apparently arrived in Thailand. I emailed them back asking what it was and what I should do, this being the first time I've ever encountered one of these.

I append here the (full) text of their reply:

What we need from you for clearance are

copy of your passport

Good description of each item

Please be notd that after we got the required information as above,

We will use 3-5 business days for clearance and there will be the clearance service charge

Thb1200 exclude the tax.

So I am now being asked to pay Mr. FedEx a further 1200 Baht ($36) as a "clearance fee" (for goods that have a value of only $25) on top of the ridiculous cost of shipping before I even pay import tax!!

What's the game here? Is this normal? Has anyone any experience of this? My Farang friend who recommended this method of buying the health supplements has never had this happen in the 6 years he's been buying from Swanson's.

Also - is it safe to email a scan of my passport? Why would they need that?

I hope someone can shed some light on this, which I am inclined to say, seems to be nothing short of an extortion racket.

I have found that shipping anything from USA involves shipping costs that can be more than the value of the goods. US mail is usualy cheaoest but many suppliers will not use them.

[asia_pilot]

I have found that shipping anything from USA involves shipping costs that can be more than the value of the goods. US mail is usualy cheaoest but many suppliers will not use them.

Not just from the USA. Also from Europe......and like I said in earlier posts, it's because of the $20.00 value of the goods.

[bonobo]

As someone who sells online and sends out to pretty much every country, let me present the other side of the fence.

On our website we have a clear statement that we cannot be responsible for import tax and handling fees imposed by destination countries. It would appear that warning was rather hidden on the OPs vendor site. But thats the only issue where the vendor could have done a little better. Overall its not their nor Fedex problem.

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth, but I think this is his main beef.  You evidently run your site so the customs problem is very clearly stated. For the OP, this was on the fine print of another page. 

For those of us who ship, of course we know about the fees.  But all of us never knew this at one point in time. I am sure the OP will never have this happen to him again as he now knows the rules, but I do think it is incumbent for each website to take care of newbie shipping customers by having a very evident and clear message that customs may be charged.  And this needs to be right at the point-of-purchase pages where the fees being charged are deliniated.

[asia_pilot]

bonobo, you dont have to be an expert to know that you have have to pay duties and tax on international transactions/ shipments/ imports. Someone who lives in a foreign country has at least once passed customs in his/her life !

Edited October 25, 2009 by asia_pilot

[Ijustwannateach]

Even through regular mail I have been taxed for vitamins, so I am not surprised that OP has been hit by a tariff- not really FedEx related, I think.

I have had vitamins sent to me over the years and never once have I been asked to pay tax, the OP is being scammed and so were you.

Afraid you're wrong but lucky, and we were not scammed. You haven't been caught- that doesn't mean the items weren't dutiable. According to the official Thai customs site, any items over 1000B sent by parcel post are dutiable, except for certain privileged goods such as books... Of course, they probably don't catch everything.

[Garret]

When I first moved here in 1993 I had some of my used clothes shipped via UPS and they tried to extort 200$ from me...The Customs Dept is still the most corrupt of all the Govt agencies and the clearing agents are just part of the corupt machine......I would simply ship to the GPO and pick up your parrcel there it is a lot less hassle.

I had an overnight letter from fed ex that I had sent to there office on Rama 4...it took 7 days yet they could care less that I paid more than 50 $ .

The OP has a right to be pissed off.

[Bearnagh]

As someone who sells online and sends out to pretty much every country, let me present the other side of the fence. ...

AndyWW - This posting is very informative and helpful. It is useful and interesting to see the other side of the fence. Thanks to you for writing this.

[Bearnagh]

As someone who sells online and sends out to pretty much every country, let me present the other side of the fence.

On our website we have a clear statement that we cannot be responsible for import tax and handling fees imposed by destination countries. It would appear that warning was rather hidden on the OPs vendor site. But thats the only issue where the vendor could have done a little better. Overall its not their nor Fedex problem.

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth, but I think this is his main beef. You evidently run your site so the customs problem is very clearly stated. For the OP, this was on the fine print of another page.

For those of us who ship, of course we know about the fees. But all of us never knew this at one point in time. I am sure the OP will never have this happen to him again as he now knows the rules, but I do think it is incumbent for each website to take care of newbie shipping customers by having a very evident and clear message that customs may be charged. And this needs to be right at the point-of-purchase pages where the fees being charged are deliniated.

Bonobo, That's it in a nutshell. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Bearnagh

[Bearnagh]

Even through regular mail I have been taxed for vitamins, so I am not surprised that OP has been hit by a tariff- not really FedEx related, I think.

I have had vitamins sent to me over the years and never once have I been asked to pay tax, the OP is being scammed and so were you.

Afraid you're wrong but lucky, and we were not scammed. You haven't been caught- that doesn't mean the items weren't dutiable. According to the official Thai customs site, any items over 1000B sent by parcel post are dutiable, except for certain privileged goods such as books... Of course, they probably don't catch everything.

Thanks for this info. Now this gets even more interesting.... By today's exchange rate I see that 1000 Baht = US$30. My goods however were marked to the value of $24, so therefore would be exempt anyhow... so why would FedEx want to impose a handling fee for "customs clearing" something that actually falls below the threshold anyway? Am I missing something salient here?

[robblok]

Even through regular mail I have been taxed for vitamins, so I am not surprised that OP has been hit by a tariff- not really FedEx related, I think.

I have had vitamins sent to me over the years and never once have I been asked to pay tax, the OP is being scammed and so were you.

Afraid you're wrong but lucky, and we were not scammed. You haven't been caught- that doesn't mean the items weren't dutiable. According to the official Thai customs site, any items over 1000B sent by parcel post are dutiable, except for certain privileged goods such as books... Of course, they probably don't catch everything.

Thanks for this info. Now this gets even more interesting.... By today's exchange rate I see that 1000 Baht = US$30. My goods however were marked to the value of $24, so therefore would be exempt anyhow... so why would FedEx want to impose a handling fee for "customs clearing" something that actually falls below the threshold anyway? Am I missing something salient here?

Usually it includes the shipping costs not the product only.

[Bearnagh]

Usually it includes the shipping costs not the product only.

I'm sure you're right and I'm not querying the validity of what you've added here but it doesn't make much sense for customs to be treating the shipping cost as a dutiable item.... Isn't that just a bit 'below the belt'?

Edited October 26, 2009 by Bearnagh

[robblok]

Usually it includes the shipping costs not the product only.

I'm sure you're right and I'm not querying the validity of what you've added here but it doesn't make much sense for customs to be treating the shipping cost as a dutiable item.... Isn't that just a bit 'below the belt'?

I studied tax... it doesnt need to make any sense just generate income. The reason for this actually is that else they could inflate the shipping cost and deflate the price of the item you bought and so avoid import duties.

[Benjie]

I agree with you that FedEx is not at fault here, but Swanson's certainly is. Retail shoppers should not be expected to know taxes, shipping, tariffs, nor any other fees when ordering goods. They are not business buyers who should understand FOB, CIF, EXP, etc. Retail shoppers go to a website, and all fees should be explained and delineated. Swanson's ships to customers worldwide, I imagine, so they should have all the shipping fees available to them. And in this case, they did not reveal to the OP, who is obviously not an expert in shipping, as most customers are not, what those fees are.

The thread title might be misplaced as FedEx has nothing to do with making the order, but the sentiment of the OP is understandable.

Huh!

I live here and run a business that imports products and even I can not begin to understand what is charged when, where and how by customs here in Thailand. Why on Earth is it up to a retailer to know the exact regulations, laws and tarrifs of every country/port in the world.

If the OP reads the small print he will probably find all of this nicely detailed.

The extra time and money sound like they are down to the import being pills, so extra work will likely be required by customs and the shipping agent.

[Bearnagh]

Usually it includes the shipping costs not the product only.

I'm sure you're right and I'm not querying the validity of what you've added here but it doesn't make much sense for customs to be treating the shipping cost as a dutiable item.... Isn't that just a bit 'below the belt'?

I studied tax... it doesnt need to make any sense just generate income. The reason for this actually is that else they could inflate the shipping cost and deflate the price of the item you bought and so avoid import duties.

Thanks for the reply robblok. I sure do appreciate that honest "straight to the point" approach. Sometimes when I'm presented with hard fact - even when I don't care much for its obvious lack of rationale, it makes me smile in wonder. Thanks for your helpful addition to this thread.

Hey - who ever said the rules have to be logical?

;-)

[robblok]

robblok[/i]. I sure do appreciate that honest "straight to the point" approach. Sometimes when I'm presented with hard fact - even when I don't care much for its obvious lack of rationale, it makes me smile in wonder. Thanks for your helpful addition to this thread.

Hey - who ever said the rules have to be logical?

;-)

I have given up finding logic, usually there is some logic but in the end its about generating income and making it hard to avoid to pay tax. I handle a lot of questions of my clients about tax and it just pays to tell them what the rules are and to tell them sometimes they are not logical or that i don't agree with them but that we cant fight the rules.

And im talking about the Dutch tax system not the thai one and there it also includes shipping costs so its an universal thing.

Edited October 26, 2009 by robblok

[Bearnagh]

robblok[/i]. I sure do appreciate that honest "straight to the point" approach. Sometimes when I'm presented with hard fact - even when I don't care much for its obvious lack of rationale, it makes me smile in wonder. Thanks for your helpful addition to this thread.

Hey - who ever said the rules have to be logical?

;-)

I have given up finding logic, usually there is some logic but in the end its about generating income and making it hard to avoid to pay tax. I handle a lot of questions of my clients about tax and it just pays to tell them what the rules are and to tell them sometimes they are not logical or that i don't agree with them but that we cant fight the rules.

And im talking about the Dutch tax system not the thai one and there it also includes shipping costs so its an universal thing.

Well I do appreciate your candour about this. Thank you!