Does Anyone Live In Chiang Mai?

[thecatman]

I have a few days holiday and decided to get out of Bangkok and go to Chiang Mai. I am very impressed so far. People are friendly and not trying to hassle and rip you off all the time which is pretty much unheard of in my experience in tourist places in Thailand. I could definately see myself living and working here in the future if the right job came up.

What bars/areas/activities do the people that live here go to? I want to get a real experience of what it is like to live here for expats and locals.

Thanks.

Here are some of the places I used to hang out at in my 2 years in CM. These places were good for food followed by a bottle of whisky (or 2) between friends.

Monkey Club. Nimminheimin Road Soi 9.

Blar Blar Bar. Between soi 5 & soi 7 Nimmanhemin Rd, near Sirimankalarajarn Rd.

Maze Cafe. (not sure if still open) Boonruangrit Road (near Chiang Mai Ram Hospital).

Berlin Bar. Nimminheimin Road Soi 3.

Sofa so good. (Farang owned) Adsadathorn Rd (near JJ market).

Brasserie. Charoenrat Road. (Took, a Chiang Mai guitar legend plays here).

[Ulysses G.]

UG is this what made you come out of the closet?

As getgoing said, I've never been in a closet about anything and fresh carrot juice and wheat grass juice have done more for my mind than Orange Sunshine ever did.

[pjclark1]

I think when we use the word backpacker we are more often referring to what Thai's would call "Farang Kii Nok", in essence trashy people who care little for peoples culture and customs in the country they are visiting.

farang kii nok aka White bird shit

Called so because they have no money to extract and wash infrequently (smell like bird shit)

[Maejo Man]

farang kii nok aka White bird shit

Called so because they have no money to extract and wash infrequently (smell like bird shit)

Khee Nok is simply bird excrement, where on earth did you get the white from?

[IanForbes]

farang kii nok aka White bird shit

Called so because they have no money to extract and wash infrequently (smell like bird shit)

Khee Nok is simply bird excrement, where on earth did you get the white from?

Probably because most bird poop is white and he just added it.

I personally enjoy the energy of youthful back packers. It's probably why I like children. And, because I'm in reasonable shape I can keep up with the younger back packers.

Everyone smells if they are hiking and working up a sweat... even the Thais. Very often what we eat creates our own personal odour. I can certainly smell the alcohol in those that drink too much. The same goes for people who smoke. It permeates their pores.

After I came to Thailand the first few times I just found a lady who wasn't committed and paid her to be my traveling companion. I got to see Thailand from a slightly different viewpoint and no longer needed to take the commercial tours. But, a commercial tour DOES short cut the learning curve and you will find the better places you might not have found on your own in a limited time frame.

I think some people mix up back packers with the young, illegal aliens who have over-stayed their visa and would be bums where ever they chose to live.

These young "back packers" happened to be friends of a good, fishing friend of mine in Canada and we met just by luck in a Chiang Mai bar. They hardly fit the stereotype of "filthy back packers".

[pjclark1]

farang kii nok aka White bird shit

Called so because they have no money to extract and wash infrequently (smell like bird shit)

Khee Nok is simply bird excrement, where on earth did you get the white from?

farang = white man, "farang kii nok" translates to "poor white man who smells bad"

Farang is a racial insult that many white people choose not to recognise as such.

Although it may be used to include black people now, have no doubt it is a racial insult and only used by people who despise whites.

They invented the term to match the fertilizer they use in the fields (it also smells bad).

Luckily I am classed as farang ruay, along with most others who use this forum.

[cmsally]

I don't understand all the assumptions about backpackers. A lot of the time people backpack because it simply isn't logistically sensible to take wheelie suitcases to the places they are visiting. However if you don't visit the places that don't have pavements and flat tarmacked roads maybe this isn't obvious.

Personally I can see why the Thais sometimes make generalisations about backpackers, but then many Thais don't have the life experiences to know much better. It would be a shame as a foreigner, who has more experience, to make the same assumptions just because people are travelling on a budget and carry a backpack.

It's a bit like making assumptions about people because of the type of car they drive etc. Assumptions can sometimes be horrifically wrong!

[IanForbes]

Farang is a racial insult that many white people choose not to recognise as such.

Although it may be used to include black people now, have no doubt it is a racial insult and only used by people who despise whites.

They invented the term to match the fertilizer they use in the fields (it also smells bad).

I have to disagree, even though I've heard that definition before. I've been called "farang" MANY times by happy children who do NOT intend it as an insult. I've also been called "farang" by Thai friends who mean no insult. Of course "farang" sounds more like "fahlong" when spoken by a Thai.

Maybe it is the TONE that "farang" is spoken by a Thai who intends it as an insult... just as a Black American might call his good friend by the "N" word and yet use it in derision for those he doesn't like.

Some people are so paranoid they take everything as an insult and actively search for situations where they can feel persecued.

[Ulysses G.]

Somebody PM sabaijai the moderator to ask him. He is a real expert on the Thai language.

[eek]

The other night my bf and I hopped on a songtau which had a group of mid 20's people i guess that could be termed as backpackers. They were obviously excited and happy about being in Chiang Mai and chatty and friendly. When one of them offered some mints, she offered to us too. I got chatting with them for the short ride. Really great group of people. A breath of fresh air really. I came out of the short songtau ride feeling a bit of a buzz from their energy.

Expats often have a seen-it-all, done-it-all mood about them. Nothing wrong with that per say, but can occasionally turn into something a bit more depressive and of course, there are those who just love to complain about everything.

Holiday makers, usually keep a bit more to themselves as such (i think), and are after souvenirs of the physical kind.

Backpacker types are not always this concept of dirty smelly with extreme budgets (as others have mentioned). They also seem to be in it more for the culture experience. Open to soaking up the environment. Happy to talk and listen. Usually with a very positive attitude.

To be honest, i actually wouldnt mind seeing more of these types of people around!

Edited October 24, 2009 by eek

[sabaijai]

Farang is a value-neutral racial identifier. It can be used in ways that are both positive and negative, depending on the situation and how it is said. It's more or less equivalent to the term 'white people,' which is neutral in itself but can be used disparagingly too, as in 'stupid white people.'

Many Thais nowadays are aware that some Caucasians find the term insulting even when it is not intended that way, so they will use khon taang chaat (foreigner) instead, or the actual nationality if they know it.

Backpackers: Tourism studies show that they contribute the largest net revenue (due to greater length of stay coupled with less expenditure on imported goods, foreign-staffed hotels, international package wholesalers, etc) while having the lowest social and environmental impact of any sector of the tourist market.

Do they make more/deeper contact with the locals? In my experience, present and past, yes. YMMV.

[PeaceBlondie]

My hippie son and his lady friend - backpackers - caught up with me in Chiapas, on the Guatemalan border. We swam to Guat. and walked back. Met several Israelis, recently discharged from military, and a S Korean girl. We all went hiking, swimming, riding kombis. Later we toured ruins of Palenque and swam in waterfall. Earlier I met backpacker who was a grandson of a Texas millionaire I'd known. None of these folks are normal, but we're happy.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

Well, I and I have to say that we believe that if you are defining what you like by first defining what you don't like, planning where you want to go by first thinking of all the places you don't want to go, and fantasizing about who you'd like to hang out by first dwelling upon those you imagine you don't want to associate with : you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope, and probably frowning (which is not good for your face).

On some level we are all stereotypes ? Of course some of us revel in our stereotypicality, while others pretend (at great expense) to be monotypical : now which, do you think, is having more fun ?

The smorgasboord of international travellers of every nation and background, young and old, budget travellers, and hi-so, are part of what make Chiang Mai a vibrant place, imho. If some of them are wearing back-packs : so what (as long as they dont' stick it in my face in an elevator or a songthaew) ?

As a city that was essentially abandoned, ruined, and de-populated (thanks to the whole area being fully "raped" by the Burmese), and then repopulated (by mainly forcibly relocated Shan and Tai Lue peoples, and other Thai emigrants) about 200 years ago under the leadership of King Kawila of Lampang, Chiang Mai itself is a stunning example of historical ethnic diversity.

It's really too bad that Michael Vatikiotis' doctoral dissertation (at Chiang Mai University) on the history of Chiang Mai is not widely published (perhaps you recognize his name because he went on to become the editor of the Far Eastern Ecnomic Review for many years). But there is the excellent "History of Lanna" by Sarassawadee Ongsakul published by Silkworm Press, translated by Chitraporn Tanratanakul (English version, 2005).

We love Chiang Mai !

best, ~o:37;

p.s. the idea that the word "Farang," as commonly used by Thais, is inherently pejorative is one of the single most stupid things I've seen on TV in a while. Yes, of course, a given Thai person can use the word with negative intention, just like you, or we, could use the word "you" with a negative, or contemptuous intention.

last time I looked scholars were still arguing if the origins of "Farang" in Thai was a contraction of "Farangset" (the archaic Thai term for the French), or if it went back to an older Persian root "ferengi."

Edited October 24, 2009 by orang37

[amexpat]

Backpacker types are not always this concept of dirty smelly with extreme budgets (as others have mentioned). They also seem to be in it more for the culture experience. Open to soaking up the environment. Happy to talk and listen. Usually with a very positive attitude.

To be honest, i actually wouldnt mind seeing more of these types of people around!

Agreed, eek. The image that falangs have unlimited wealth and little sense is fed by the extreme over-tipping big spenders we all know.

Back packers on restricted budgets help counter that myth.

[BlackArtemis]

I think everyone has covered the farang issue. Only worry if you hear an I or E before it...

Ian: That's great that you meet up with younger people and meet their youthful zeal.

Backpacker shouldn't be a dirty word and there are plenty of great examples of trustworthy, friendly, respectful backpackers.

Despite this I know that while living south in the islands, my laptop and digi camera was much more likely to be stolen by backpackers than Thai's. There are also plenty more backpackers who are here for cheap thrills, get wasted, don't care about anyone else around them and generally bring down the image of the whole.

IMO you can be clean, and loaded with money and still be "Farang Kii Nok" Examples are wearing short shorts and a tube top into a temple.

[KevinHunt]

I think everyone has covered the farang issue. Only worry if you hear an I or E before it...

Ian: That's great that you meet up with younger people and meet their youthful zeal.

Backpacker shouldn't be a dirty word and there are plenty of great examples of trustworthy, friendly, respectful backpackers.

Despite this I know that while living south in the islands, my laptop and digi camera was much more likely to be stolen by backpackers than Thai's. There are also plenty more backpackers who are here for cheap thrills, get wasted, don't care about anyone else around them and generally bring down the image of the whole.

IMO you can be clean, and loaded with money and still be "Farang Kii Nok" Examples are wearing short shorts and a tube top into a temple.

When I first came to Chiang Mai the average back-packer didn't have two baht to rub together, and consequently there were loads of stories about them sitting in restaurants all day nursing a coke, or sharing one between three or four of them. Whether that was true or not, it certainly isn't the case these days. Now that they have student loans and visa cards I often find that a group of young folk will spend quite a bit of money on booze. Once they've had a couple of beers they often get into 'Jaeger Bombs', and 'shooters' and before you know it they are running up quite a big bill. They pay the bill without batting an eyelid and a with a 'thank you very much' and head off to late-night drinking places.

    Conversely, older expats all used to be reasonably well off , didn't concern themselves with prices too much and would spend well. Nowadays a lot of them are much more 'careful' with their money, and not as generous and cheerful.

I removed the 'No Back-packers' sign quite a while back. I haven't quite got the wording right for the new sign.

Any suggestions?

[Ulysses G.]

No Sad Sacks!

[KevinHunt]

No Sad Sacks!

I've got no idea what that means. Answers in English please.

Edited October 25, 2009 by KevinHunt

[Ulysses G.]

It is slang, so there is more than one definition. Mine would be:

People that are never happy about anything and spend most of their time whining, whinging and complaining.

another:

☆ sad sack: Slang a person who means well but is incompetent, ineffective, etc. and is consistently in trouble

Etymology: shortened < mil. slang "sad sack of shit"

[Hardie]

Hear, hear! old fart ex-pats dissing gap-year backpackers? That'd be a laugh, if it weren't so pathetic!

[Hardie]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV Friends,

Well, I and I have to say that we believe that if you are defining what you like by first defining what you don't like, planning where you want to go by first thinking of all the places you don't want to go, and fantasizing about who you'd like to hang out by first dwelling upon those you imagine you don't want to associate with : you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope, and probably frowning (which is not good for your face).

On some level we are all stereotypes ? Of course some of us revel in our stereotypicality, while others pretend (at great expense) to be monotypical : now which, do you think, is having more fun ?

The smorgasboord of international travellers of every nation and background, young and old, budget travellers, and hi-so, are part of what make Chiang Mai a vibrant place, imho. If some of them are wearing back-packs : so what (as long as they dont' stick it in my face in an elevator or a songthaew) ?

As a city that was essentially abandoned, ruined, and de-populated (thanks to the whole area being fully "raped" by the Burmese), and then repopulated (by mainly forcibly relocated Shan and Tai Lue peoples, and other Thai emigrants) about 200 years ago under the leadership of King Kawila of Lampang, Chiang Mai itself is a stunning example of historical ethnic diversity.

It's really too bad that Michael Vatikiotis' doctoral dissertation (at Chiang Mai University) on the history of Chiang Mai is not widely published (perhaps you recognize his name because he went on to become the editor of the Far Eastern Ecnomic Review for many years). But there is the excellent "History of Lanna" by Sarassawadee Ongsakul published by Silkworm Press, translated by Chitraporn Tanratanakul (English version, 2005).

We love Chiang Mai !

best, ~o:37;

p.s. the idea that the word "Farang," as commonly used by Thais, is inherently pejorative is one of the single most stupid things I've seen on TV in a while. Yes, of course, a given Thai person can use the word with negative intention, just like you, or we, could use the word "you" with a negative, or contemptuous intention.

last time I looked scholars were still arguing if the origins of "Farang" in Thai was a contraction of "Farangset" (the archaic Thai term for the French), or if it went back to an older Persian root "ferengi."

During the Crusades all Whites were called 'Franks', the dominant group, hence 'lingua franca' aka 'pahsah farang'. In Ethiopia to this day it's 'faranji'.

p.s. 'Farangset' archaic?

[gotlost]

I think everyone has covered the farang issue. Only worry if you hear an I or E before it...

Ian: That's great that you meet up with younger people and meet their youthful zeal.

Backpacker shouldn't be a dirty word and there are plenty of great examples of trustworthy, friendly, respectful backpackers.

Despite this I know that while living south in the islands, my laptop and digi camera was much more likely to be stolen by backpackers than Thai's. There are also plenty more backpackers who are here for cheap thrills, get wasted, don't care about anyone else around them and generally bring down the image of the whole.

IMO you can be clean, and loaded with money and still be "Farang Kii Nok" Examples are wearing short shorts and a tube top into a temple.

When I first came to Chiang Mai the average back-packer didn't have two baht to rub together, and consequently there were loads of stories about them sitting in restaurants all day nursing a coke, or sharing one between three or four of them. Whether that was true or not, it certainly isn't the case these days. Now that they have student loans and visa cards I often find that a group of young folk will spend quite a bit of money on booze. Once they've had a couple of beers they often get into 'Jaeger Bombs', and 'shooters' and before you know it they are running up quite a big bill. They pay the bill without batting an eyelid and a with a 'thank you very much' and head off to late-night drinking places.

Conversely, older expats all used to be reasonably well off , didn't concern themselves with prices too much and would spend well. Nowadays a lot of them are much more 'careful' with their money, and not as generous and cheerful.

I removed the 'No Back-packers' sign quite a while back. I haven't quite got the wording right for the new sign.

Any suggestions?

How about for your new sign Flower sellers of any kind, baggers and street vendors need not apply.

[orang37]

During the Crusades all Whites were called 'Franks', the dominant group, hence 'lingua franca' aka 'pahsah farang'. In Ethiopia to this day it's 'faranji'.

p.s. 'Farangset' archaic?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Hardie,

Debate on the origins of the word "farang" :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

Origins of "lingua franca" (it's a "pidgin" : goes back to the 11th. century, which was around the time of First Crusade which was more of an excuse for bands of thugs to go around Europe killing Jews, and then looting Byzantium), but had more to with Portugese, Italian, and Provencal, than the "root-stock" of modern French :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca

A fair point on my calling "Farangset" archaic : I was using it to imply of "ancient" origin, but for most people that term means the same as the word "archaism," which has a much stronger sense of meaning "not in common usage." I'm reminding myself to ask my educated Thai friends if they still use "Farangset" for the French, if that word is still used in print in Thai newspapers.

Early contact and trade between the Kingdom of Ayudhya, and the Iranian empire is well documented : for example, the founders of the famous Bunnag dynasty,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunnag

two brothers, settled in Ayudhya in 1600, sixty to eighty years before the first French contacts and trade (and the strange adventures of King Narai with Louis XIV). Sheikh Ahmed actually became "prime minister" (Samuha Nayok) after putting down a rebelliion of Samurai in the service of the Siamese King during a power struggle. The Wikipedia article on the Bunnags does little justice to the remarkable history of this dynasty and their great importance up to and including the modern era (see David Wyatt's books for that).

best, ~o:37;

[sabaijai]

Hear, hear! old fart ex-pats dissing gap-year backpackers? That'd be a laugh, if it weren't so pathetic!

Pure envy. Though they will deny it

[spaceshipcrew]

I lived in Chiangmai for 7 years but never regret the day I left this shithole behind me !

10 years ago it was nice, the people where nice.

What the fukkk are this confusing advertisements in this post ?

I will ban the companies mentioned there !

Edited October 29, 2009 by spaceshipcrew