If You Had To To It All Again (retire To A Different Country)

[Jingthing]

The only two countries I know of in the world that will allow retired status visas(rather than visa runs) for someone my age, with no pension, and my "wealth" level are Thailand and the Philippines. Between those two, happy with Thailand though I wouldn't rule out moving there someday either. I couldn't move somewhere on visa runs, the one year extensions are bad enough.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I remember old timer expats complaining about all these same things when I first came here to live 20 years ago.

The only ones that I agree with is the bars don't have as many dirty shows as they used to and things are more expensive because there is a much bigger, better choice than before. All the great new restaurants and imported foods, music and books; computers and modern necessities add up.

All of my buddies that came here at the same time that I did think that Thailand keeps getting better and better and I agree.

Yes, I agree too.

[Naam]

The only two countries I know of in the world that will allow retired status visas(rather than visa runs) for someone my age, with no pension, and my "wealth" level are Thailand and the Philippines. Between those two, happy with Thailand though I wouldn't rule out moving there someday either. I couldn't move somewhere on visa runs, the one year extensions are bad enough.

you forgot to mention Malaysia.

[thedistillers]

Why am I not surprised the thread quickly turned into a Thailand bashfest.

[kikoman]

I would not change anything, Retiring in Thailand was the best choice I ever made. Leaving the US was my second best choice.

My recent trip back to the US and Mexico reminded my of all the reasons I left. I only miss my family and some very good friends.

When I pass away it will be here in Thailand!

The only change I would have made was to leave Pattaya earlier and move to Rural Thailand.

Cheers:

[zzaa09]

Retire..?? Why wait 'til you're an older geezer to explore {and enjoy} your life?

[Suiken]

can someone go into more detail on those? is it true.

Nothing seems to work........again, stressful........I have never been around such incompetent people.

It is gaining a reputation, not as the land of smiles, but as the land of xenophobic thieves, liars, and cheats.

It is no longer mysterious and exotic........at least not for me.

[jazzbo]

When I first studied how to read and write Chinese it was as a classical language -- there was at that time no practical reason for learning Chinese ... When I first traveled to PR China for work in the late 80's all my communication was by TELEX and when I left Beijing for the hinterlands I had to bring a short-wave radio or else the rest of the world could disappear and I would not know about it.

Hardly anyone in their 20s or 30s would conceive of just picking up and moving to a place like Thailand -- no internet, no email, no ATMs, no Mobile phones, or SKYPE ... You had to know in each city where was the telephone exchange office... Even when I first went to Thailand late 80s there was no 30-day visa exemption ... My first multiple-entry Visas to PR China required an invitation from Ministry-level C. Party Member.

When I read of some of the younger set who want to just pick up and move to Thailand full-time -- not those who have been sent here by MNCs or some such -- and live independently and set-up businesses or NGOs or whatever I often think 'would this have been possible a generation ago?' -- and the naivete' of some of the posters herein is just astonishing.

Edited July 24, 2010 by jazzbo

[Jingthing]

The only two countries I know of in the world that will allow retired status visas(rather than visa runs) for someone my age, with no pension, and my "wealth" level are Thailand and the Philippines. Between those two, happy with Thailand though I wouldn't rule out moving there someday either. I couldn't move somewhere on visa runs, the one year extensions are bad enough.

you forgot to mention Malaysia.

Nope. I didn't forget it. It doesn't qualify for my criteria. Perhaps I should have said no -- no income/pension option rather than no -- no pension option though to make it more clear.

Malaysia has no -- no pension/income option!

Plus rather high wealth levels required PLUS income.

The devil is in the details, and the details are only a subset of those who can retire in Thailand would qualify for Malaysia.

BTW, 10K Malay ringits a month is over 3,000 USD per month! A typical US social security pension is 1500 per month; I don't think even the maximum social security benefit is over 3,000 USD per month. I think they are specifically targeting JAPANESE.

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

Applicants are expected to be financially capable of supporting themselves on this programme in Malaysia.

Upon application:

i. Applicants aged below 50 years are required to show proof of liquid assets worth a minimum of RM500,000 and offshore income of RM10,000 per month.

ii. Applicants aged 50 and above may comply with the financial proof of RM350,000 in liquid assets and off shore income of RM10,000 per month. For those who have retired, they are required to show proof of receiving pension from government approved funds of RM 10,000 per month.

iii. New applicants who have purchased properties worth at least RM 1 million qualify to place a lower fixed deposit amount upon approval.

UPON APPROVAL

Successful applicants are required to comply with the following financial criteria upon receipt of the `conditional approval letter' from Immigration Department of Malaysia

Edited July 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[swisstouristpattaya]

why do you complain?,

let 's see, in my country, Switzerland if I go to cinema, I pay 500 bahts, here 60-80 bats the wednesday.

plus add parking in switzerland for 2 hours, another 400 baths.( and the fine because you speedup of 4km/hours over the 50km/h limit... another 2000 bats, ouch!)

another exemple:

I go to a medium quality hotel in Switzerland, over 3000 baths, here 400-600 bahts.

rent a bike, forget about is...go Visa car in Switzerland, 3000 baths a day mimimum then pay fuel,...fuel is more expensive in Europe..

appartment for a shit 1 bedroom appartment in Switzerland: 35'000 baths, here 5000 baths.

taxi 20 minutes: 1000 bahts in switzerland, here in thailand 100-150 baths.cheaper: tuk tuk!!! in europe, tulk tuk doesnt exist, why? because they want tax you!!!

and in Pattaya we have carrefour, tesco and lot of ladies, when in Switzerland, you can not even talk to ladies unless you drive a Mercedes and work in a bank.

US, EU,...all these countries suck like hel_l. All they want is to pump your money until you die in the streets.

only take my residence status in switzerland, will cost me 15'000 baths, even if I don't work there.Here it cost me nada, niet, nil, nul!!! FREE Visa so far.

Same for France, USA, and Australia, and i can tell you, all these countries want the same. your money, and suck you fast and dry!

another example to show you how our countries suck:

If I want open a business in the USA and give work to US people(they told me they need jobs there), they want from me half million US$ !!! 500'000 US$ only!!! (are they crazy?or are they lazy?, I think both!!!)

why should I give them a job ? I can keep my money and give job to thai people.

here I am sure for a few thousand baths I can mount my business!

oh, visa?, US TR visa, 6 months then go home!!. I'm here since 13 months in a row, and no problems, got another FREE 6 months...while in the USA, people have to jump over the fence just to pick oranges.

US / EUrope is a joke!!! the joke will soon be over.

I can tell you , you live 6-10 better here in thialand, than in this freaking so called evolved country which can not exist without their freaking taxes.

If you think UK is better for retirement, you must be insane! only landing there and taking a plane the next day will cost you an extra 15 pounds because you will use the stairs of the airport..

when I discovered thailand 2 years ago, i couldn't believe my eyes, all these for 10 times less, or 10x more.

since, Thailand became my base.When no job, I go back to Thailand. with 1 month salary in Switzerland(5000 swiss francs)I can pretty much live 12 months here.

in fact I have saved enough at 40, to live the rest of my life here....I am happy, very happy. thank you thailand to have changed my mind and opened my eyes on what Europe want. (they don't want your happiness, they want your money!). in thailand, they don't care about you, come here, have fun, enjoy life & food as long you follow their rules.

and if you follow their rules, you can stay here and enjoy the thsi life style, which is relax, peace minded.. unlike Europe where everyone freak up for anything (only open my mail box in the morning in freaking Switzerland... , Oh no..., another tax to pay! grrrr!...military tax this time, shit!!!)

Edited July 24, 2010 by swisstouristpattaya

[Birdman]

you pay tax for what you get. Schools, hospitals, clean environment etc etc, Swiss cities are top only behind Vienna in the ranking of the well respected Mercer's Quality of living report

Top 5 cities worldwide 2010 (2009)

* Vienna, Austria (1st)

* Zurich, Switzerland (2nd)

* Geneva, Switzerland (3rd)

* Vancouver, Canada (tied 4th)

* Auckland, New Zealand (tied 4th)

http://www.mercer.com/qualityofliving

[F1fanatic]

Precisely. As long as you realise that Thailand has wonderful scenery, a laid back attitude ( but keep your wits about you), its a nice place to retire.

The problem is that too many people come here for the wrong reasons,or come here and believe the b/g/s telling them they 'love them too much. It should only be the tourists that fall for this line....

Unfortunately this stupidity gives the rest of us (and Thailand) a bad reputation......

[swisstouristpattaya]

just go to zurich trainstation and look at their face.

Nobody is smiling there!!!even some crazy guys told me they want a scan(TAC) thinking they got brain cancer.

who pay for that? me!!!

who pay for nice streets with flowers? me...

I don't believe people are happy in Switzerland!

I have never eared someone to tell me "I am happy"!. they are stuck in their bills, taxes, and their federal system, and they don't want to go out of their "miserable" life .who care of nice hospital, I never go to hospital.only dentist.

Their brain is squezzed by personal problems.

people are poor here in thailand , but seem much happier.

Thailand is much much better, since I am here, I feel much happier.no presure from my government asking me money for nothing.

no military or service civil to do...

in one word, for me Thailand is freedom!

people who blame thailand for this and that, why they dont go back to their miserable US or EU life.

go smell the oil in Louisiana

Edited July 25, 2010 by swisstouristpattaya

[Suiken]

so guys, what don't you like about living in Thailand? what are the downsides that you can tell to someone who is planning to come? thanks

[MJP]

Stay where I was and appreciate the good life I already had , I had no complaints with my life or surroundings , just thought I could find a little more . In the overall picture , despite beng happy with my life , all I found was agravation of a different genre about which I can do sweet 'F' all , live and learn they say .

After many years of going through the agro this place can throw at you, I understand what you are saying. I wouldn't want to retire here without knowing how to deal with the place or having long term roots here. Not at that age.

That said, I will retire here (UK property is well out of my league now and cost of living there is brutal and the pension age is likely to be raised to 900 years before long) to this home, I have roots here now established over the last 9 years and I know what to avoid (the women) for a happy simple life in the country which suits me fine.

This country is hel_l on earth if you get it wrong. Very pleasant (and affordable) if you get it right.

[chriswatson]

so guys, what don't you like about living in Thailand? what are the downsides that you can tell to someone who is planning to come? thanks

Based on my experience (I no longer permanently live in Thailand, but did intend to retire there when I did):

1. Getting hit for money, all the time, by all the people is always a pain. It's not so much the expense, it's trying to understand the mentality, because Thai mentality is so different to the West. For example, I once took a load of poor, yokel Thai "friends" on an all-expenses paid fishing trip. Everyone had a great time. Fish were caught, bought and sold. A Couple of days afterwards, they were asking me for gas money to cover their 200 meter drive to the coast and for the fishing lines they'd bought. Probably about 500 baht in total, but I was kind of disappointed to be asked. There are many other TIT examples.

2. If you come, you may find a lot of your time being bored. I know I did. I have no real interest in learning Thai language or cookery or riding an elephant, and I missed the multi-culture of London with her spectrum of good restaurants, night life, cinemas, theaters and museums etc. I ended up bored witless in Thailand, and it was during these bored-out-of-my-mind periods that I realized it wasn't for me, and so I left.

3. The back-biting. Lots of Thai's in my experience are nice to your face but gossip behind your back. This is of course not unique to Thailand, but they do seem to go out of their way to appear nice and then go some considerable distance in being nasty behind your back. It's as if it is a national sport for some of them.

4. Unless you are fascinated by it, or live by it yourself, the Thai's adherence to superstition can be incredibly ridiculous. The only interesting part about it for me, is it sets you on a train of thought and a journey where one concludes Western science and logic really has not defeated Thai superstition and beliefs, even in the highest echelons of their society.

5. Getting used to blatant corruption. The whole world is corrupt, but Thailand is one of those countries it is right in your face. Personally, I didn't mind giving Thai officials bribes as it's just the way it is, but you may not feel the same way.

6. The weather. Be sure you check out what the weather is going to be where you live. Certain parts of Thailand were intolerable for me in the hot season.

7. Thailand is no longer the inexpensive place it used to be. Inflation is high, Western currencies are currently weak, and neither trends are unlikely to change any time soon.

8. There is an underlying menace that you can end up "disappeared" or murdered, and this is prevalent in all parts of Thai society. Again, not unique to Thailand, but rather different than living in rural France, for example. I have at least on one occasion truly feared for my life in Thailand. I can fortunately say that about nowhere else.

9. I got quite despondent about the way Thai's treat their natural resources. I know the UK used to be covered in forest so we can hardly complain, but just chopping down vast swathes of "protected" areas just gets on my tits. I am also not a fan of electricity cables being suspended like telephone wires, instead of being laid underground, but accept this is just the inevitability of a third world infrastructure.

10. Finally, "you". You may not like "you" living in Thailand, and this is the biggest downside. For me, I felt it was just wasting my time. I was under 40 with the where-with-all to retire when I moved there and am not much older than 40 now. I loved the laid back attitude, the weather, the cheap beer, the natural beauty, the food, the girls but I soon thought I was wasting my time. I was probably trying to retire too early. I really appreciated (what turned out to be) the break as it let me evaluate my life, but I'd not consider moving back there full time, at least not for another 15 years or so. I still go for the odd trip, but I'm kind of happy to be back in the rat race. I can earn shed loads more working in the west and really enjoy my industry. I thought I'd find it difficult to get back "in" to my profession after such a long sabbatical, but now I have, I do not wish to leave it anytime soon.

11. Sorry, forgot to mention "Connect Four". I like pretty girls as much as the next man, but crap, sometimes you just want to have a beer and not get challenged to the world's most tedious game. Just say "No", but unfortunately, I was too busy saying "yes"

[IanForbes]

Pretend I was here for the culture, instead of the nookie!

I have to agree with Ulysses. But, I live two parallel lives of which neither is similar to the other... half in Canada and half in Thailand. I guess if I was impotent then I might choose some other place to parallel my half year in Canada. I kind of enjoy going somewhere warm when the cold, damp season arrives in Canada. So far it's been Thailand and I see no reason to change. South America might be interesting. I've been to Australia and New Zealand many times. Africa is too dangerous and uncertain in the places I would like to visit. The Philippines is nice, but it's too corrupt and far worse than Thailand. The infrastructure in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam is not set up for tourists like most of Thailand is.

[chriswatson]

Pretend I was here for the culture, instead of the nookie!

I have to agree with Ulysses. But, I live two parallel lives of which neither is similar to the other... half in Canada and half in Thailand. I guess if I was impotent then I might choose some other place to parallel my half year in Canada. I kind of enjoy going somewhere warm when the cold, damp season arrives in Canada. So far it's been Thailand and I see no reason to change. South America might be interesting. I've been to Australia and New Zealand many times. Africa is too dangerous and uncertain in the places I would like to visit. The Philippines is nice, but it's too corrupt and far worse than Thailand. The infrastructure in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam is not set up for tourists like most of Thailand is.

So does that mean you spend half your time as an uptight citizen and the other half as an upright sex tourist?

[MJP]

Pretend I was here for the culture, instead of the nookie!

I  have to agree with Ulysses. But, I live two parallel lives of which neither is similar to the other... half in Canada and half in Thailand. I guess if I was impotent then I might choose some other place to parallel my half year in Canada.  I kind of enjoy going somewhere warm when the cold, damp season arrives in Canada. So far it's been Thailand and I see no reason to change. South America might be interesting. I've been to Australia and New Zealand many times. Africa is too dangerous and uncertain in the places I would like to visit. The Philippines is nice, but it's too corrupt and far worse than Thailand. The infrastructure in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam is not set up for tourists like most of Thailand is.

Being impotent in Thailand is actually the best way to enjoy the place (as a 35 year old male divorcee). That may have been too much information there, but I think it's important to note that Thailand offers the best for retirement if you have your 'old fella' securely zippered away and are one of those blokes quite happy without a companion. 

I note from another thread the Baht seems to be undervalued again, may have something to do with rampant inflation in the West (the figures for which are fiddled). Can't see me ever retiring in Blighty due to bonkers costs on things you can't avoid, like most of it!

Okay, go on . . . fire away!

[chriswatson]

Pretend I was here for the culture, instead of the nookie!

I have to agree with Ulysses. But, I live two parallel lives of which neither is similar to the other... half in Canada and half in Thailand. I guess if I was impotent then I might choose some other place to parallel my half year in Canada. I kind of enjoy going somewhere warm when the cold, damp season arrives in Canada. So far it's been Thailand and I see no reason to change. South America might be interesting. I've been to Australia and New Zealand many times. Africa is too dangerous and uncertain in the places I would like to visit. The Philippines is nice, but it's too corrupt and far worse than Thailand. The infrastructure in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam is not set up for tourists like most of Thailand is.

Being impotent in Thailand is actually the best way to enjoy the place (as a 35 year old male divorcee). That may have been too much information there, but I think it's important to note that Thailand offers the best for retirement if you have your 'old fella' securely zippered away and are one of those blokes quite happy without a companion.

I note from another thread the Baht seems to be undervalued again, may have something to do with rampant inflation in the West (the figures for which are fiddled). Can't see me ever retiring in Blighty due to bonkers costs on things you can't avoid, like most of it!

Okay, go on . . . fire away!

Given your "confession", you may want to re-phraze this?

[MJP]

Pretend I was here for the culture, instead of the nookie!

I  have to agree with Ulysses. But, I live two parallel lives of which neither is similar to the other... half in Canada and half in Thailand. I guess if I was impotent then I might choose some other place to parallel my half year in Canada.  I kind of enjoy going somewhere warm when the cold, damp season arrives in Canada. So far it's been Thailand and I see no reason to change. South America might be interesting. I've been to Australia and New Zealand many times. Africa is too dangerous and uncertain in the places I would like to visit. The Philippines is nice, but it's too corrupt and far worse than Thailand. The infrastructure in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam is not set up for tourists like most of Thailand is.

Being impotent in Thailand is actually the best way to enjoy the place (as a 35 year old male divorcee). That may have been too much information there, but I think it's important to note that Thailand offers the best for retirement if you have your 'old fella' securely zippered away and are one of those blokes quite happy without a companion.

I note from another thread the Baht seems to be undervalued again, may have something to do with rampant inflation in the West (the figures for which are fiddled). Can't see me ever retiring in Blighty due to bonkers costs on things you can't avoid, like most of it!

Okay, go on . . . fire away!

Given your "confession", you may want to re-phraze this?

I nearly said, come on fire away, but it would have been too obvious.   

[Thakkar]

just go to zurich trainstation and look at their face.

Nobody is smiling there!!!even some crazy guys told me they want a scan(TAC) thinking they got brain cancer.

who pay for that? me!!!

who pay for nice streets with flowers? me...

I don't believe people are happy in Switzerland!

I have never eared someone to tell me "I am happy"!. they are stuck in their bills, taxes, and their federal system, and they don't want to go out of their "miserable" life .who care of nice hospital, I never go to hospital.only dentist.

Their brain is squezzed by personal problems.

people are poor here in thailand , but seem much happier.

Thailand is much much better, since I am here, I feel much happier.no presure from my government asking me money for nothing.

no military or service civil to do...

in one word, for me Thailand is freedom!

people who blame thailand for this and that, why they dont go back to their miserable US or EU life.

go smell the oil in Louisiana

Methinks you hate Switzerland more than it deserves and love Thailand more than it deserves.

But you're relatively new here. Give it time, and your views will balance out, unless you are somehow inclined only to extreme views.

[Thakkar]

[<snip>

This country is hel_l on earth if you get it wrong. Very pleasant (and affordable) if you get it right.

So, so true.