Thailand Seeks China Loan For Ambitious Highway

[Publicus]

The Chinese are self-reinforcing. Self isolated from the world for an astoundingly long period of time, and certain China is the center of all human civilization, the PRChinese post Mao haven't any doubt what so ever they know all things and are correct in all things, when in fact they haven't any idea of the knowledge and sophistiction of other civilizations.

The PRChinese readily acknowlege that the US is "strong" but soberly and without blinking say to your face boldly and with absolute certainty that the People's Republic of China will rule the world. Coupled with their gross ignorance of other peoples, this absurd mindset betrays an arrogance that is deadly dangerous. This is my great concern about the egocentric and ethnocentric false arrogance of the PRChinese.

The Chinese always have been continentally imperialist but post Mao have set their sights on the world. The US is well aware of this and have developed its stragegy of tying the PRC down in mutually interdependent investments which already are limiting the PRChinese in ways they haven't yet realized due to their own unrealistic fantasy world of existence. My bank in the US, for example, the Bank of America, already has USD $6 billion of ownership of a major bank in the PRC (China Construction Bank) which amounts to 20% of the CCB's capital. The UK based HSBC already is long invested in China. BoA and HSBC alone have significant interests in the CCB, The Bank of Communications and the Heng Seng banks respectively, which all are major Chinese banks. No foreign investors yet will have anything to do with such massively corrupt and grossly inefficient financial institutions as the Bank of China or the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

Further, the USD $2 trillion of USD reserves means several important things. First, that's $2 trillion the PRC needs to further develop its domestic economy but cannot. Another important factor is that if the PRC sells any of those reserves, regardless of whether the amount sold is large, medium or small, the RMB will appreciate and directly limit a further development of the PRC economy. These factors, combined with numerous other critical determinants limit PRC leverage over the US economy in serious ways. However, the PRChinese are not financially sophisticated enuff to fully recognize these limiting, interdependent factors as such.

The major concern in Washington and to me is that the PRChinese are not realistic in their knowledge of and thinking towards the world outside of China. This ignorance not only will harm the PRC, but it could cause serious damage to the world economy or cause serious military conflict.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Publicus

[MHM]

The Kanchanaburi-Tavoy road link has been discussed for years but has never taken off. It would be great for Kan if it actually happened (and if we can get the Burmese to deliver on their side). At a stroke the new border crossing would become the No1 visa run destination for Bangkok, and all the business and infrastructure spin-offs would be hugely beneficial for the local economy.

[SM7WGP]

This scheme just smacks of Chinese Imperialism.

It involves an iceberg of attached strings. Most of them under the surface. The PRC is wallowing in cash and sees an opportunity to increase their control over the rest of SEA. They are doing something similar close to the North Korean border. Massive seaport construction. The Chinese are on long range strategy planning. The current regime in the lovely DPRK will fall one day. Whether the PRC will have anything to do with it does not matter. The Chinese are expecting to move in fast when it oes fall. If they do not move in, the country could descend into a civil war between local generals jockeying for the Dear Leader position.

The PRC is already heavily invested in Burma. Even though relations have cooled quite a bit recently, they will improve agian.

LaoPo, let us have some of your wisdom in this matter, considering your admiration of the PRC.

So What the USA has done this for ages now its the Chinese That will run the wheels

[Publicus]

This scheme just smacks of Chinese Imperialism.

It involves an iceberg of attached strings. Most of them under the surface. The PRC is wallowing in cash and sees an opportunity to increase their control over the rest of SEA. They are doing something similar close to the North Korean border. Massive seaport construction. The Chinese are on long range strategy planning. The current regime in the lovely DPRK will fall one day. Whether the PRC will have anything to do with it does not matter. The Chinese are expecting to move in fast when it oes fall. If they do not move in, the country could descend into a civil war between local generals jockeying for the Dear Leader position.

The PRC is already heavily invested in Burma. Even though relations have cooled quite a bit recently, they will improve agian.

LaoPo, let us have some of your wisdom in this matter, considering your admiration of the PRC.

So What the USA has done this for ages now its the Chinese That will run the wheels

Anyone who wants can try a one party state as the People's Republic of China is, or maybe some people like that already. Try accessing Facebook via internet and see it blocked with the big black letters on the screen PROHIBITED. Or sometimes to seem less direct and imposing, the simple message "This Page Cannot Be Displayed" appears - every time.

Global cable satellite television is prohibited by law in the PRC so the PRChinese see only state television, the 44 channel same but different Central China Television Network or "How to say the same thing in 44 different ways." Those of us in the PRC who receive BBC, CNN, HBO, History Channel etc do so at great risk and at a great expense. Try to buy a newspaper or magazine that isn't produced by the PRC government.

Try attending local China Communist Party meetings each month as party members have to, or listen to the CPC cadre come to your classroom each week to give you the current events party line. Try to discuss religion, politics or government to see what happens to you. Try to say Taiwan is a country so you can see how fast you still can run from the vicious mob that sets out after you.

Try being a uni student who must be in the dormitory by 11 pm each night (unless you have leave to go home).

Try being completely ignorant about the world outside of the PRC to instead have your head filled with only Communist Party of China propaganda and loving it.

In the US and other democracies, blow the whistle on an Abu Grahib and the warders and personnel go to prison. In the PRC blow the whistle and you go to prison.

Try that for a while.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Publicus

[Ijustwannateach]

Try keeping discussion in this thread closer to Thailand- we're not going to have a 'pro-China, anti-China' thread here.

[Publicus]

We shouldn't doubt for a moment that this boondoggle of a highway project will be accomplished and finished reasonably on time, at least if the PRChinese have any significant control over the works. The PRC engineers are constructing mega projects all over the landscape to include the massive Three Gorges Dam (which rests on a quake fault line and narrowly escaped catastrophe in the quake early last year).

The corrupt PRChinese and the corupt elites of the countries involved will get their cut, but the PRC will see the project underway and completed. The PRC wants it for its own reasons and will bang heads in five capitals to get it, and get it they will.

That doesn't mean a good time won't be had by all at every step along the way.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Publicus

[Publicus]

I wonder if they can use some of the money to teach people to drive!

The effort would need to start in PRChina because for the past several years consecutively the Middle Kingdom has been the country with both the most road accidents and the most people killed on its roads per 100 million vehicle-kilometers (kill-ometers?!?). Whether one travels in metro areas or on the expressways (speedways), each day one sees numerous accidents to include human bodies.....well, human bodies on the roads or in the twisted mangled wrecks that once were shinny new cars.

I was in a car with a student at the uni here where I teach who said of his father at the wheel, "My father is a safe driver," which I found his father to be, but I cautioned the student that his life depended more on the maniac drivers around the car far more than his responsible father at the wheel. The kid was completely taken by the verity of the statement which hadn't ever occurred to him (or to his teacher father).

Driver training programs? The PRC has them. Criminal road practices and habits are simply passed on and even taught formally. For example, walking across the street at an intersection without lights you get drivers giving you their horn without even decelerating. The attitude is, "Get out of my speeding way coz I got this speeding metal machine and if you don't I'll crunch your bones. Besides, having this car proves I'm rich and you on foot are poor so make way for me."

Whew!

Edited October 28, 2009 by Publicus

[SanSaiExPat]

Someone needs to be spending money on the roads, when I first came to Thailand 8 years ago I was amazed at how good the roads were in Thailand.

Yesterday I drove from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, the section of road between Nakon Sawan and Thoen (100k north of Tak) is terrible with enormous pot holes and it's a real danger to the traffic.

I have driven up and down this road every few months for the last 5 years, it's been getting worse every time but right now it's worse than it's ever been.

The section from Tak to Thoen is so bad that the road is in read danger of just falling apart.

I couldn't agree with you more. My wife's family lives just east of Tak and we drive up frequently from Chiang Mai and have been for over six years. In the halycon days of Thaksin the road to Tak was the envy of any Super Hwy in America. Now it's run down and dangerous. For all his faults at least the Thaksin government spent money on infrastructure projects and the local economy was booming. Funny how he never gets any credit. OTOP for example.

[Publicus]

Someone needs to be spending money on the roads, when I first came to Thailand 8 years ago I was amazed at how good the roads were in Thailand.

Yesterday I drove from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, the section of road between Nakon Sawan and Thoen (100k north of Tak) is terrible with enormous pot holes and it's a real danger to the traffic.

I have driven up and down this road every few months for the last 5 years, it's been getting worse every time but right now it's worse than it's ever been.

The section from Tak to Thoen is so bad that the road is in read danger of just falling apart.

I couldn't agree with you more. My wife's family lives just east of Tak and we drive up frequently from Chiang Mai and have been for over six years. In the halycon days of Thaksin the road to Tak was the envy of any Super Hwy in America. Now it's run down and dangerous. For all his faults at least the Thaksin government spent money on infrastructure projects and the local economy was booming. Funny how he never gets any credit. OTOP for example.

The road constructed/upgraded during "the halycon days of Thaksin" and that "was the envy of any Super Hwy in America" broke apart and went to the dogs in only several years?

This is the standard and predictable Thaksin government project, in this instance infrastructure crawling with corruption, cronyism, nepotism ad infinitum, ad nauseum. The incredibly disappearing Thaksin road which cost how much to slap together only to crumble even before Thaksin was deposed?

Rose colored glasses are doing a brisk business at the threads these days.

[Rumfoord]

I couldn't agree with you more. My wife's family lives just east of Tak and we drive up frequently from Chiang Mai and have been for over six years. In the halycon days of Thaksin the road to Tak was the envy of any Super Hwy in America. Now it's run down and dangerous. For all his faults at least the Thaksin government spent money on infrastructure projects and the local economy was booming. Funny how he never gets any credit. OTOP for example.

that logic is a little bit myopic. many previous governments could claim the same fame, build some road somewhere. and not forget the über master builder of the Autobahn.

that the road is now run down can have variuos reasons, lack of maintenance, but also that it was build in inferior quality in the first place. i think one of the main reason for the fate of that road are natural circumstances. geological and climatic. the soil, the rainfalls, the surounding mountains where the water all runs down. and that it was maybe expected that the road will only in the first year a proper lane without potholes and so one, but soon nature will take its toll, maintenance will costly and that it will be a soso solution, but still better than no road.

soon will also forumists show up that claim Thaksin just build the road for them because the voted for Thaksin.

[Publicus]

I couldn't agree with you more. My wife's family lives just east of Tak and we drive up frequently from Chiang Mai and have been for over six years. In the halycon days of Thaksin the road to Tak was the envy of any Super Hwy in America. Now it's run down and dangerous. For all his faults at least the Thaksin government spent money on infrastructure projects and the local economy was booming. Funny how he never gets any credit. OTOP for example.

that logic is a little bit myopic. many previous governments could claim the same fame, build some road somewhere. and not forget the über master builder of the Autobahn.

that the road is now run down can have variuos reasons, lack of maintenance, but also that it was build in inferior quality in the first place. i think one of the main reason for the fate of that road are natural circumstances. geological and climatic. the soil, the rainfalls, the surounding mountains where the water all runs down. and that it was maybe expected that the road will only in the first year a proper lane without potholes and so one, but soon nature will take its toll, maintenance will costly and that it will be a soso solution, but still better than no road.

soon will also forumists show up that claim Thaksin just build the road for them because the voted for Thaksin.

[JimsKnight]

I wonder if they can use some of the money to teach people to drive!

I wonder if it gets built they'll allow bikes to use it?

I know it sounds daft I know but Highway 7 and sections of the ring round at bangkok have signs up outlawing bikes from using it!

Edited October 31, 2009 by JimsKnight

[neverdie]

^people that ride bikes are lower class, they don't deserve to ride on the nice roads, come on JK, get with the program ......this is the same reason that somechai driving his 200k baht vigo runs you into a ditch, bikers they are the lowest form or road user

[sokal]

I wonder if they can use some of the money to teach people to drive!

The effort would need to start in PRChina because for the past several years consecutively the Middle Kingdom has been the country with both the most road accidents and the most people killed on its roads per 100 million vehicle-kilometers (kill-ometers?!?). Whether one travels in metro areas or on the expressways (speedways), each day one sees numerous accidents to include human bodies.....well, human bodies on the roads or in the twisted mangled wrecks that once were shinny new cars.

I was in a car with a student at the uni here where I teach who said of his father at the wheel, "My father is a safe driver," which I found his father to be, but I cautioned the student that his life depended more on the maniac drivers around the car far more than his responsible father at the wheel. The kid was completely taken by the verity of the statement which hadn't ever occurred to him (or to his teacher father).

Driver training programs? The PRC has them. Criminal road practices and habits are simply passed on and even taught formally. For example, walking across the street at an intersection without lights you get drivers giving you their horn without even decelerating. The attitude is, "Get out of my speeding way coz I got this speeding metal machine and if you don't I'll crunch your bones. Besides, having this car proves I'm rich and you on foot are poor so make way for me."

Whew!

Just because they dont drive like pussy footed North Americans does not meen they dont know how to drive. Your scared of the speed of the roads, admit it, your just scared.

[Publicus]

I wonder if they can use some of the money to teach people to drive!

The effort would need to start in PRChina because for the past several years consecutively the Middle Kingdom has been the country with both the most road accidents and the most people killed on its roads per 100 million vehicle-kilometers (kill-ometers?!?). Whether one travels in metro areas or on the expressways (speedways), each day one sees numerous accidents to include human bodies.....well, human bodies on the roads or in the twisted mangled wrecks that once were shinny new cars.

I was in a car with a student at the uni here where I teach who said of his father at the wheel, "My father is a safe driver," which I found his father to be, but I cautioned the student that his life depended more on the maniac drivers around the car far more than his responsible father at the wheel. The kid was completely taken by the verity of the statement which hadn't ever occurred to him (or to his teacher father).

Driver training programs? The PRC has them. Criminal road practices and habits are simply passed on and even taught formally. For example, walking across the street at an intersection without lights you get drivers giving you their horn without even decelerating. The attitude is, "Get out of my speeding way coz I got this speeding metal machine and if you don't I'll crunch your bones. Besides, having this car proves I'm rich and you on foot are poor so make way for me."

Whew!

Just because they dont drive like pussy footed North Americans does not meen they dont know how to drive. Your scared of the speed of the roads, admit it, your just scared.

I'm holding up three fingers. Now I'm holding up one.

[RubbaJohnny]

The leaders and the departed Khmer advisor Koon T are already Chinese just get the rd done and those hard working Jin Haw can re-educate the locals as per Xizang (used to be called Tibet) then arailway and soon as Xinjiang locals will be outnumbered.

A sweet and sour corollary will be the new high speed trains levitating from San Kampaeng to Dusit in 2 hours like a French socialist TGV.

Mei guanxi

[Publicus]

The leaders and the departed Khmer advisor Koon T are already Chinese just get the rd done and those hard working Jin Haw can re-educate the locals as per Xizang (used to be called Tibet) then arailway and soon as Xinjiang locals will be outnumbered.

A sweet and sour corollary will be the new high speed trains levitating from San Kampaeng to Dusit in 2 hours like a French socialist TGV.

Mei guanxi