Do Thais Identify Themselves As Asian Or Asean? Or Just Thai?

[NCFC]

As an American, I consider myself 'Western' rather than European ('european' conjures up negative images of oppulence and unnecessary World Wars),

As a European when I think of Americans it conjures up negative images of corpulence and unnecessary S E Asian Wars.

Ahem, does Dien Bien Phu ring a bell? Ten years in Vietnam (Indochina) prior to any US involvement in Vietnam.

French Foreign Legion in Africa? PLEASE, remember Europe's colonization of the world? EU countries have nothing over anyone else when it comes to World Wars or colonization of other countries. They are the ones that perpetrated it. Had it not been for the Europeans and their conflicts within, the World Wars would most likely not have been. And, as an American, I think of Europeans that come to Asia and flaunt their oppulence, corporate vacations and group travel and belittle and degrade the Asians, particularly the Thais that they encounter as wait-persons, hotel staff or drivers. I think of them often, as I am married to a Thai that had to deal with EU visitors and put up with their antics.

And if it wasn't for the colonization process, the good ole US of A wouldn't exist today....

BTW, as a Brit, I feel culturally closer to the Americans than I do to Europeans.

[Payboy]

Nationalism is the last refuge of scoundrels. Samuel Johnson 1775

[wintermute]

Thai people born and raised in Thailand tend to identify strongly with just being Thai along with all the nationalistic claptrap.

Thai people who have been overseas however tend to be willing to recognize that they are part of a much larger asian region.

So it all boils down to educational level. Your average rural yokel Thai probably won't see beyond the tip of his nose. Your overseas college educated Thai will tend to have a broader worldview.

Also the whole definition of what constitutes Thai isn't even clear to most Thais. Thailand is really a pretty diverse area with lots of intermixed asian cultural heritage points.

Edited October 29, 2009 by wintermute

[Richard W]

Clearly, in some way, the Thais feel ASEANish. Or at least you must otherwise come up with an explanation of why the nation-states of ASEAN have chroncially failed to invade each other. Yes, they have had their spats (Prear Vhear) , but they seem to live in peace.

What chronic failure to invade? There's been something of a lull since Thailand temporarily recovered parts of Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Malaya during WWII. Vietnam has re-established hegemony over Laos, and also established hegemony over Cambodia when Pol Pot tried to adjust the border. Indonesia's conquests have been restricted to Irian Jaya and nearby islands (Heard of South Moluccans?) and East Timor (ultimately unsuccessful). Thailand is supposed to have had a post-war policy of buffer statelets between it and Burma.

[mca]

And, as an American, I think of Europeans that come to Asia and flaunt their oppulence, corporate vacations and group travel and belittle and degrade the Asians, particularly the Thais that they encounter as wait-persons, hotel staff or drivers.

Yeah I've never ever seen an American act like that.

[Crushdepth]

And, as an American, I think of Europeans that come to Asia and flaunt their oppulence, corporate vacations and group travel and belittle and degrade the Asians, particularly the Thais that they encounter as wait-persons, hotel staff or drivers.

Well have you ever seen how the locals treat Burmese / Vietnamese / Cambodians ?

[khaowong1]

I find it interesting that most continental Europeans identify themselves quite strongly as European (British excluded, I know ) but I haven't found, IME, that Thais identify themselves as Asians. Rather just Thai. Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of unified feeling in Asia or even ASEAN?

on this note, I wonder who the Thai's consider farang? Do they consider people from India, Pakistan, Iraq, etc. farang? Just who is not farang would probably be a better question...

[Thai at Heart]

I think they just identify themselves as thai. I think thai culture is less about labeling than western culture.

That would be the culture that identifies anyone with white skin as being from anywhere generic in the world where white people come from, and still retains derogatory words for people who are anything from moslem, to hindu?

Labels? Thailand is absolutely full of them and most of them aren't even as nice as the N-word.

[barky]

I can never understand why people are obsessed with where they came from, look at it this way were all human ( well some exceptions) here and that's it.

I totally agree.

We breath the same air...we have the same blood, we are all the same!

I could never understand this "tribal" mentality thing.

We are all human beings.

Yes I think Its narrow minded too, but with Thais they are absolutely Thai. They are so nationlistic it makes me want to vomit sometimes.

[Jingthing]

I find it interesting that most continental Europeans identify themselves quite strongly as European (British excluded, I know ) but I haven't found, IME, that Thais identify themselves as Asians. Rather just Thai. Is this a rural thing? An education thing or just a lack of any kind of unified feeling in Asia or even ASEAN?

on this note, I wonder who the Thai's consider farang? Do they consider people from India, Pakistan, Iraq, etc. farang? Just who is not farang would probably be a better question...

Those would definitely not be farang in Thai eyes. The Indian case is interesting because most Indians are Caucasian, as well as Bedouin Arabs, Turks, and Persian-Iranians.

[Briggsy]

Thai people born and raised in Thailand tend to identify strongly with just being Thai along with all the nationalistic claptrap.

Thai people who have been overseas however tend to be willing to recognize that they are part of a much larger asian region.

So it all boils down to educational level. Your average rural yokel Thai probably won't see beyond the tip of his nose. Your overseas college educated Thai will tend to have a broader worldview.

Also the whole definition of what constitutes Thai isn't even clear to most Thais. Thailand is really a pretty diverse area with lots of intermixed asian cultural heritage points.

Very concise and articulate in my opinion.

I would add that overseas college educated Thais make up only a tiny fraction of the population.

[edko]

nation-states of ASEAN have chroncially failed to invade each other. You really need to study some history of SE Asia.

The nation-state with its monoploy of violence can in its desperate desire to project its own existence go to great lengths to make the people living within it feel part of it. FOS on that one too!

Edited November 1, 2009 by edko

[Rumfoord]

Those would definitely not be farang in Thai eyes. The Indian case is interesting because most Indians are Caucasian, as well as Bedouin Arabs, Turks, and Persian-Iranians.

what is actually a Caucasian?

[Dakhar]

Same here, never heard anyone (including myself) to call themselves "European". Even if people and goods move fairly free over the borders there still is borders and independent nations. Totally different system than USA or the British "empire"

Maybe not. Ask a Mexican if he identifies as a Mexicano or a Norte Americano.

USA is one country with one government, one flag and one president.

In EU i have lost count, maybe 20 or more fully independent countries having own armies, passports etc etc...

Shhhhh, just don't tell the Mexicans (americans) that....

[Dakhar]

Thai people born and raised in Thailand tend to identify strongly with just being Thai along with all the nationalistic claptrap.

Thai people who have been overseas however tend to be willing to recognize that they are part of a much larger asian region.

So it all boils down to educational level. Your average rural yokel Thai probably won't see beyond the tip of his nose. Your overseas college educated Thai will tend to have a broader worldview.

Also the whole definition of what constitutes Thai isn't even clear to most Thais. Thailand is really a pretty diverse area with lots of intermixed asian cultural heritage points.

Very concise and articulate in my opinion.

I would add that overseas college educated Thais make up only a tiny fraction of the population.

Amen to both posts

[Richard W]

what is actually a Caucasian?

Not easily defined. At its most inclusive, a member of a population with hair oval in cross-section and arising from the Northern Hemisphere (i.e. excluding Australian Aborigines). The inclusion of the peoples of the Horn of Africa and southern India is debatable, as is the border in Central Asia.

Oval hair is probably a shared innovation rather than an ancestral characteristic of Caucasians - just as thick straight hair seems to be an innovation within the Mongoloid race, apparently an even shakier concept.

[anselpixel]

Yes, yes.

We all breathe the same air, but with considerably less enjoyment after those left wind liberals leave the room.

Sorry.

Couldn't resist.

My Thai friends do seem to have a very strong sense of local identity, but that's not so different from my fellow countrymen, who can and do make fine distinctions about different areas within a single state.

My small sample includes people from Lanna, Isaan and Bangkok. I notice the Isaan contingent seems to identify more closely with Laos than they do Bangkok or Chiang Mai, but, push come to shove, they're all adamantly Thai when pressed.

[Rumfoord]

what is actually a Caucasian?

Not easily defined. At its most inclusive, a member of a population with hair oval in cross-section and arising from the Northern Hemisphere (i.e. excluding Australian Aborigines). The inclusion of the peoples of the Horn of Africa and southern India is debatable, as is the border in Central Asia.

Oval hair is probably a shared innovation rather than an ancestral characteristic of Caucasians - just as thick straight hair seems to be an innovation within the Mongoloid race, apparently an even shakier concept.

???

is this about selling natural hair for wigs or hair extentions?

i really would like to know what or who Caucasian is?

[Richard W]

what is actually a Caucasian?

Not easily defined. At its most inclusive, a member of a population with hair oval in cross-section...

???

is this about selling natural hair for wigs or hair extentions?

Most such hair is actually Mongoloid!

I couldn't lay my hands on a cranial definition (cephalic index definitely doesn't work) - and skin colour notoriously doesn't work. On the other hand, skin colour is probably quite useful as a definition of farangs.

[Svenn]

I couldn't lay my hands on a cranial definition (cephalic index definitely doesn't work) - and skin colour notoriously doesn't work. On the other hand, skin colour is probably quite useful as a definition of farangs.

OK, I don't want to sound like a 19th century scholar from the British Raj, but I think "Caucasian" is actually very easily definable- any people who historically speak a language of one of two massive faimilies: Indo-European (anything from English to Hindi) or Hamito-Semitic (Egyptian to Hebrew). Both of these families arose from a single proto-language in prehistory, and some scholars think there was at one time an even earlier 'Nostratic' language from whence they arose.

Physically, Caucasians usually have round open eyes (no epilithic fold like East Asians), prominent, narrow nose and nose bridge, and the ability to grow facial hair. You're not going to find any non-Caucasian that has all of those features. There are fringe groups in South India, Eastern Turkestan, and the horn of Africa which share similarities with other racial groups.

The Caucasian race probably arose from a northern climate with a nomadic lifestyle in semi-wooded terrain. They generally share the characteristc of eating bread versus rice, and live in dwellings where the floor is not a living space (reflecting their ancient use of tents, where the floor was just dirt).

I suppose in the broadest possible terms, you could say Caucausians are the non-tropical division of humanity, the apparent exception of northern Mongoloid peoples (Korean, Japanese, Siberians, Americans) being but recent migrants from a tropical Mongoloid homeland (evidenced by the lack of body hair, a tropical asset).

Edited November 2, 2009 by Svenn

[Richard W]

I couldn't lay my hands on a cranial definition (cephalic index definitely doesn't work) - and skin colour notoriously doesn't work. On the other hand, skin colour is probably quite useful as a definition of farangs.

OK, I don't want to sound like a 19th century scholar from the British Raj, but I think "Caucasian" is actually very easily definable- any people who historically speak a language of one of two massive faimilies: Indo-European (anything from English to Hindi) or Hamito-Semitic (Egyptian to Hebrew). Both of these families arose from a single proto-language in prehistory, and some scholars think there was at one time an even earlier 'Nostratic' language from whence they arose.

Sex-obsessed languages, perhaps? (Sex-linked gender is rather rare.) The linguistic connection is more a geographical than a biological connection. The full Hamito-Semitic family includes Nigerian languages (e.g. Hausa) as well as Somali. If there is a language family including Semitic and Indo-European, the Moscow school will happily point out that Uralic, Mongolian and Turkic are more closely related to Indo-European than is Semitic, and probably throw in Eskimo-Aleut for good measure. You've also left out most of the Caucasians (sensu lato) of the Caucasus - the Georgians (claimed as Nostratic) and the NW Caucasians (e.g. Circassians) and N.E. Caucasians (e.g Chechens and Avars) - the Basques, and, going back a couple of millennia, the Sardinians.

I suppose in the broadest possible terms, you could say Caucausians are the non-tropical division of humanity, the apparent exception of northern Mongoloid peoples (Korean, Japanese, Siberians, Americans) being but recent migrants from a tropical Mongoloid homeland (evidenced by the lack of body hair, a tropical asset).

Many of the Mongoloid features are explained as an adaptation to a cold environment! They are also the most neotenous of the human groups, so that will account for their being less hairy.

[seahorse]

1. Thai

2. Thai

3. Thai

[TomBombadil]

........

i really would like to know what or who Caucasian is?

Someone whose ancestors were born West of the Caucasus = Europe