Land Lease Price Naiharn

[katabeachbum]

For mine plans 25k, or bor tor 3k, plus teamoney to speed up permission, poo yai barn 1000 for TB.

For his plans not much i suspect. if you make it out of mainly wood you don't need plans or permission at all, but have you have still to talk to poo yai barn about house book [TB] for elect and phone. Talk to PYB first be nice etc maybe lunch.

These amounts wouldnt work in nai harn, kata-karon or patong.

Tessabaan issues tabien baan in these areas, not poo yai baan. they dont issue tabien baan for structures without buildingpermit

[thefalang]

What are the current prices for leasing land in Nai Harn / Rawai, does anyone know?

This is for a 3-5 year inital contract, with annual lease payments, and the land is on a good concrete soi (no dirt, no gravel), 90 meters off the main road. Electricity is there, water also provided by owner, centrally located near many shops.

The owner asks about 1500 Baht per Ngaan (400 sqm) per month, 18,000 Baht per year.

(The equivalent per Rai would be 6000 Baht per Rai per month, 72,000 Baht per year.

Is that a reasonable price for the area?

It's probably take you minimum of 12-months to build something and get it sorted out to where it's comfortable. That would "eat up" a significant part of your leasehold interest. After lots of time, money (you'll surely surpass your budget) and frustration, and you'll be left with only a short-term lease and a lease rate that will certainly be increased first opportunity once you've improved the property.

My advice is to rent a house and forget investing your money & time on a S-T land lease. 3-5 yrs is not enough to recoup your time and effort. There are plenty of vacant houses for lease.

An option is to get a longer lease (10-15 yrs) with a fixed rental rate and record the lease. Be careful because there's alot of property in the area (tor bor tor 5, etc) which a lease cannot be recorded upon. I believe that unrecorded leases are only valid (and/or enforceable) for a max term of 3-yrs.

There are so many pitfalls that it's hard to enumerate. Should you build a house, your landlord will have a stranglehold on both your water and electricity (he remains the owner and it would be difficult-impossible for you to arrange a house registration in your name). That means if you have any problem with your landlord, he could just cut your utilities until you acquiesce.

I know many falangs in this area who have leased property S-T with options to purchase, leased L-T(recorded or unrecorded), built with no lease, etc, etc. Even is there's a signed document, many of the locals will disregard the agreement and force you to take legal to preserve your rights. Best thing is to do is avoid the situation and minimize your exposure.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[thefalang]

These amounts wouldnt work in nai harn, kata-karon or patong.

Tessabaan issues tabien baan in these areas, not poo yai baan. they dont issue tabien baan for structures without buildingpermit

How have the Thais, who have built on Tor Bor Tor 5 property in Rawai in the Laem Promthep area and directly behind the OrBorTor, been able to receive electrical service without a Tabian Bahn (house registration)? I actually know a few that have been issued a Tabian Bahn by the OrBorTor.

[Thaibloke]

How have the Thais, who have built on Tor Bor Tor 5 property in Rawai in the Laem Promthep area and directly behind the OrBorTor, been able to receive electrical service without a Tabian Bahn (house registration)? I actually know a few that have been issued a Tabian Bahn by the OrBorTor.

If you know them, why don't you just ask them ? And then tell us, that would maybe help the OP.

[LivinginKata]

How have the Thais, who have built on Tor Bor Tor 5 property in Rawai in the Laem Promthep area and directly behind the OrBorTor, been able to receive electrical service without a Tabian Bahn (house registration)? I actually know a few that have been issued a Tabian Bahn by the OrBorTor.

Might be that they only have a temporary meter. No need for Tabian Bahn to obtain a temporary meter. Just means have to pay a higher electric unit rate.

[thefalang]

How have the Thais, who have built on Tor Bor Tor 5 property in Rawai in the Laem Promthep area and directly behind the OrBorTor, been able to receive electrical service without a Tabian Bahn (house registration)? I actually know a few that have been issued a Tabian Bahn by the OrBorTor.

If you know them, why don't you just ask them ? And then tell us, that would maybe help the OP.

Mr "Thaibloke", I did but this "privilege" is only available to "members only". I'm not a "member" due to my ethnicity. If you're really a Thai bloke, you already knew the answer so why did you ask?

[thefalang]

How have the Thais, who have built on Tor Bor Tor 5 property in Rawai in the Laem Promthep area and directly behind the OrBorTor, been able to receive electrical service without a Tabian Bahn (house registration)? I actually know a few that have been issued a Tabian Bahn by the OrBorTor.

Might be that they only have a temporary meter. No need for Tabian Bahn to obtain a temporary meter. Just means have to pay a higher electric unit rate.

I'm aware of temporary electrical meters. These people on Laem Phai (directly behind the Or Bor Tor) have built large estates on Tor bor Tor 5 property, have a Tabian Bahn, permanent utilities and evidently have the authorization and/or consent of the Rawai OrBorTor. They are within view of the OrBorTor. The large house at the end of the road at Laem Phai has a police box and the property is patroled daily, courtesy of the Chalong Police.

[katabeachbum]

I'm aware of temporary electrical meters. These people on Laem Phai (directly behind the Or Bor Tor) have built large estates on Tor bor Tor 5 property, have a Tabian Bahn, permanent utilities and evidently have the authorization and/or consent of the Rawai OrBorTor. They are within view of the OrBorTor. The large house at the end of the road at Laem Phai has a police box and the property is patroled daily, courtesy of the Chalong Police.

Op want to lease the land. Only NS3G and Chanote can be leased safely. Thais can build one (farming) house on less land titles and have permanent electric meters. Op is not Thai.

A red box/police box is payed for to Police to check your box/property usually 3 times/24 hours, and has nothing to do with ownership or buildingpermit. Available for farang too.

[thefalang]

Op want to lease the land. Only NS3G and Chanote can be leased safely. Thais can build one (farming) house on less land titles and have permanent electric meters. Op is not Thai.

A red box/police box is payed for to Police to check your box/property usually 3 times/24 hours, and has nothing to do with ownership or buildingpermit. Available for farang too.

Have a look at the "estate" occupying the TorBorTor 5 property occupying the end or tip of Laem "Cape" Phai (the western part of Rawai beach). It's not exactly a "farm house". It's a full-on luxury housing compound built by a wealthy Thai who reportedly owns a large hotel in the Patong area. The next contiguous "estate" overlooking Rawai beach is owned by a Thai doctor who resides in Germany. It's far from a "farm" house also. He reportedly paid for "permission" to build on the TorBortor 5 property.

My comment regarding the police box was that it seems a little funny having police patrol what seemingly is an illegal structure to begin with. That is good to know, however, that a police patrol is available for non-Thais. How much does that cost and/or better yet, whate's the standard price for this service?

I'm sorry but I do not understand "Op want to lease the land." "Op is not Thai." Please translate for me.

Last but not least, you mention: "Thais can build one (farming) house on less land titles and have permanent electric meters". What type of property/title, etc exactly are you referring to.

[LivinLOS]

These amounts wouldnt work in nai harn, kata-karon or patong.

Tessabaan issues tabien baan in these areas, not poo yai baan. they dont issue tabien baan for structures without buildingpermit

How have the Thais, who have built on Tor Bor Tor 5 property in Rawai in the Laem Promthep area and directly behind the OrBorTor, been able to receive electrical service without a Tabian Bahn (house registration)? I actually know a few that have been issued a Tabian Bahn by the OrBorTor.

Same way many do.. They install 'building use' electric that costs a lot more than a proper meter..

I was in a house without tabien, electric started at 6.8 per unit (I didnt pay it) for this reason.

[LivinLOS]

Last but not least, you mention: "Thais can build one (farming) house on less land titles and have permanent electric meters". What type of property/title, etc exactly are you referring to.

Sor por kor nung and Tor Bor Tor 5 both can have a dwelling erected on it if certain circumstances are met.. They are not even ownership titles but usage titles but the definitions of 'temporary structure' and 'farm building' are so loose as to be a joke.

[LivinLOS]

Have you ever built anything in Thailand ?? Yes

Or anywhere else ?? Yes, also 

Have you ever had plans passed by the tessabaan in Thailand ?? Yes 

Do you have reliable contractors (building / plumbing / electrical) ?? Yes 

Are you are of the paper trail to design and build a dwelling to get it registered, get a tabien baan, and get the services installed ?? Yes 

Well if your familiar with the process you can see its a non starter financially.

Your calculation means 20k * 12 * 5 =  1,200,000 Baht, I am not planning to spend that much.  But even if I would end up to do that for some reason, I would not mind because I would have exactly what I want, could make changes and do what I want with the building and garden, which is what I would like to do. 

You seem to be missing the time value of money !!

1,200,000 at even just 10% per annum is 120k per year compounded so >600k in lost asset appreciation over a 5 year term. Its not like your going to see any asset growth building on a Thais land plot with a short term lease.

Edited November 6, 2009 by LivinLOS

[thefalang]

Have you ever built anything in Thailand ?? Yes

Or anywhere else ?? Yes, also 

Have you ever had plans passed by the tessabaan in Thailand ?? Yes 

Do you have reliable contractors (building / plumbing / electrical) ?? Yes 

Are you are of the paper trail to design and build a dwelling to get it registered, get a tabien baan, and get the services installed ?? Yes 

Well if your familiar with the process you can see its a non starter financially.

Your calculation means 20k * 12 * 5 =  1,200,000 Baht, I am not planning to spend that much.  But even if I would end up to do that for some reason, I would not mind because I would have exactly what I want, could make changes and do what I want with the building and garden, which is what I would like to do. 

You seem to be missing the time value of money !!

1,200,000 at even just 10% per annum is 120k per year compounded so >600k in lost asset appreciation over a 5 year term. Its not like your going to see any asset growth building on a Thais land plot with a short term lease.

I agree that you must take in consideration the time value of the money invested, along with looking at a return of your investment over your lease period.

You must amortize the investment over your rental term at a rate "somewhat" related to the opportunity cost of your money, which is probably far less than 10% in these current economic times. For example, if your appropriate discount rate is 5%, the 1,200,00 Baht amortized over 60 months (5 yrs) would equate to 22,646 Baht/month, your basic cost of occupying the house throughout the lease period. This amount gives you a return "on" your investment plus a return "of" your investment.

If you can lease a similar house for a lesser amount and/or the advantages of leasing (along with rent considerations) are more attractive than investing the 1.2 million Baht upfront (22,646 Baht/mo), leasing is your best choice.

Edited November 6, 2009 by thefalang

[LivinLOS]

You must amortize the investment over your rental term at a rate "somewhat" related to the opportunity cost of your money, which is probably far less than 10% in these current economic times.

I have done a solid >30% per annum for the last 4 years.. Actually this year is over 50%.

But I dont stick it in the bank !!!

[thefalang]

I have done a solid >30% per annum for the last 4 years.. Actually this year is over 50%.

But I dont stick it in the bank !!!

Good for you. Don't "stick" it in a Thai bank for sure!

An appropriate discount rate that I mentioned in the example is defined as a "safe" rate or rate of return with little exposure to risk. A foreigner's investment in Thailand, to say the least, has significant exposure to risk and, henceforth, would not qualify as a "safe" rate.

Not too long ago, gov't securities (especially US Gov't securities) were used as a st'd benchmark for relatively "safe" rates of return. Things have changed somewhat (ha!) and who knows what the next benchmark may be.

[Thaibloke]

Mr "Thaibloke", I did but this "privilege" is only available to "members only". I'm not a "member" due to my ethnicity. If you're really a Thai bloke, you already knew the answer so why did you ask?

What did i ask.

your the one that asked how they got electricity and you also said you know some of them .

Can you also elaborate on this statement [this "privilege" is only available to "members only"]

[LivinLOS]

Mr "Thaibloke", I did but this "privilege" is only available to "members only". I'm not a "member" due to my ethnicity. If you're really a Thai bloke, you already knew the answer so why did you ask?

What did i ask.

your the one that asked how they got electricity and you also said you know some of them .

Can you also elaborate on this statement [this "privilege" is only available to "members only"]

I cant believe you dont understand it so assume your trolling..

But what he means is Thais tolerate behaviour in other Thais, that they wont tolerate in outsiders. Thais can build on land (and at heights) that we cant, and the police who are supposed to uphold the law, come round and guard the illegal buildings for them.

[thefalang]

I cant believe you dont understand it so assume your trolling..

But what he means is Thais tolerate behaviour in other Thais, that they wont tolerate in outsiders. Thais can build on land (and at heights) that we cant, and the police who are supposed to uphold the law, come round and guard the illegal buildings for them.

"LivinLOS"

Thanks for that. You're exactly right.

"Thai Bloke" is possibly Thai & trolling.

[Thaibloke]

I am not a Thai mate, and i don't live under a bridge. Didn't even know what that meant i do now.

fair dinkum

Edited November 11, 2009 by Thaibloke

[geeky]

don't do it - they will ask you 10 times the price when the first lease ends!

(about the houses behind the or-bor-tor, that's all local people - they're all family from the people in the or-bor-tor, they're like half the votes of nai-harn! and there are laws that actually allow exceptions, like farming - most of that land is in fact their own private land and they farm on it !!)

[katabeachbum]

Op want to lease the land. Only NS3G and Chanote can be leased safely. Thais can build one (farming) house on less land titles and have permanent electric meters. Op is not Thai.

A red box/police box is payed for to Police to check your box/property usually 3 times/24 hours, and has nothing to do with ownership or buildingpermit. Available for farang too.

Have a look at the "estate" occupying the TorBorTor 5 property occupying the end or tip of Laem "Cape" Phai (the western part of Rawai beach). It's not exactly a "farm house". It's a full-on luxury housing compound built by a wealthy Thai who reportedly owns a large hotel in the Patong area. The next contiguous "estate" overlooking Rawai beach is owned by a Thai doctor who resides in Germany. It's far from a "farm" house also. He reportedly paid for "permission" to build on the TorBortor 5 property.

My comment regarding the police box was that it seems a little funny having police patrol what seemingly is an illegal structure to begin with. That is good to know, however, that a police patrol is available for non-Thais. How much does that cost and/or better yet, whate's the standard price for this service?

I'm sorry but I do not understand "Op want to lease the land." "Op is not Thai." Please translate for me.

Last but not least, you mention: "Thais can build one (farming) house on less land titles and have permanent electric meters". What type of property/title, etc exactly are you referring to.

Land in LOS is a long lesson, heres the short.

Only 2 landtitles can be leased legally and registered lease in land deed, NS3G and Chanote. These can be leased legally also by farang and buildingpermit can be issued in farang name.

All other landtitles can be occupied by thai nationals. Buildingpermit for one or two houses is usually not needed, buildings are considered needed for farming and living. Buildings are issued tabien baan and can have permanent elctric supply/phoneline etc.

If one thai neighbor plants trees on the other neighbors occupied land for more than 365 days, the occupation situation changes (cold say the propertylines changes).

If a thai national lives in germany and works as a doctor, he can still keep his occupied farmland and mansion as long as he "guards" his "propertylines".

Farmland can not be sold, but its common to pay to become new occupant.