Thai Cigarettes .... Bad!

[Thai at Heart]

If you read the pack you will see in English that the international brands aren't even made in Thailand. For example Marrlboro are usually from the Philippines although I have also seen them from Indonesia and Malaysia.The same seems to apply to other Phillip Morris brands such as LM. Don't be misled by the Thai script on the pack. I presume that if you order enough you can email a health warning written in hieroglyphics to PM and they will print it on the pack for you! I remember a few years back that imported cigarettes (apart from grey market) and all cigarette advertising were banned in Thailand. Then eventually the the US forced Thailand into allowing imported cigs in citing the GAT Treaty free trade obligations (and adverts were allowed too for a while if I remember correctly) So who is poisoning who?

One of the heavy hitters against the bans on tobacco advertising and other efforts undertaken, has been, drum roll please, Germany. The USA is a small player in the international tobacco market. China and India are many times bigger. If you add in the EU's investment in Brazil and Africa, the EU is much bigger than the USA. Don't you remember when the Germans and other EU members were pushing tobacco interests in Thailand and other countries, saying cutting back on the trade was a curtailment of general trade? It wasn't the Americans.

The world's no.2 ranked tobacco company is UK based BAT. Although it manufactures in the UK, almost all of it is exported to countries like Thailand. The no.1 company is Chinas' national monopoly and no.3 is Japan Tobacco which also has a big market share in SE Asia. No. 4 in the world is another UK based company, Imperial tobacco.

Although US based Altria Brands Philip Morris is prominent with its Marlboro brands, it isn't that big a player on the international stage. The EU & Japanese tobacco interests tobacco companies have bigger investments in Thailand.

I agree with you otherwise

The biggest individual cigarette maker in the world is Altria (PM USA and PM International, BAT second than Japan Tobacco) as a single entity the CNTC (Chinese National Tobacco Corp) is largest but that is made up of about 8 large individual companies.

PM/PMI is very well spread around the world. It operates in just about every major international market there is. Marlboro is the largest individual cigarette brand in the world and is only slightly less recognisable globally as a brand than Coca-Cola or Mcdonalds. The only company making cigarettes IN Thailand is TTM (Kreng Thep, Sai Fon). That is why it is the Thai Tobacco Monopoly. All other brands are imported. There is no international/MNC production of cigarettes in Thailand. Most cigarettes in Thailand come from Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia due to AFTA tax breaks.

As for the plonker who said that most tobacco in Asean is grown in Myanmar, I suggest he drive around Chiangmai and the North East. Plenty out there.

There isn't enough tobacco in the world to make every Marlboro/Benson and Hedges or Camel taste the same anyway.

There is very little one can do chemically to make a cigarette burn faster without ruining the taste. They can play with filters and papers to make it burn quicker and reduce tested nicotine and tar levels. They can put less tobacco into the cigarette, and can add recon tobacco to change the burn rate. Some brands in Thailand are self extinguishing because some of the global manufacturers have mandated that globally as a way of reducing fire risk.

No respectable company puts vulcanised rubber in a cigarette. It would kill you after about 5 sticks. Pesticide levels for most tobaccos in the world adhere to the EU levels because it is the industry standard.

Edited October 30, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[nisakiman]

If you read the pack you will see in English that the international brands aren't even made in Thailand. For example Marrlboro are usually from the Philippines although I have also seen them from Indonesia and Malaysia.The same seems to apply to other Phillip Morris brands such as LM. Don't be misled by the Thai script on the pack. I presume that if you order enough you can email a health warning written in hieroglyphics to PM and they will print it on the pack for you! I remember a few years back that imported cigarettes (apart from grey market) and all cigarette advertising were banned in Thailand. Then eventually the the US forced Thailand into allowing imported cigs in citing the GAT Treaty free trade obligations (and adverts were allowed too for a while if I remember correctly) So who is poisoning who?

One of the heavy hitters against the bans on tobacco advertising and other efforts undertaken, has been, drum roll please, Germany. The USA is a small player in the international tobacco market. China and India are many times bigger. If you add in the EU's investment in Brazil and Africa, the EU is much bigger than the USA. Don't you remember when the Germans and other EU members were pushing tobacco interests in Thailand and other countries, saying cutting back on the trade was a curtailment of general trade? It wasn't the Americans.

The world's no.2 ranked tobacco company is UK based BAT. Although it manufactures in the UK, almost all of it is exported to countries like Thailand. The no.1 company is Chinas' national monopoly and no.3 is Japan Tobacco which also has a big market share in SE Asia. No. 4 in the world is another UK based company, Imperial tobacco.

Although US based Altria Brands Philip Morris is prominent with its Marlboro brands, it isn't that big a player on the international stage. The EU & Japanese tobacco interests tobacco companies have bigger investments in Thailand.

I agree with you otherwise

The biggest individual cigarette maker in the world is Altria (PM USA and PM International, BAT second than Japan Tobacco) as a single entity the CNTC (Chinese National Tobacco Corp) is largest but that is made up of about 8 large individual companies.

PM/PMI is very well spread around the world. It operates in just about every major international market there is. Marlboro is the largest individual cigarette brand in the world and is only slightly less recognisable globally as a brand than Coca-Cola or Mcdonalds. The only company making cigarettes IN Thailand is TTM (Kreng Thep, Sai Fon). That is why it is the Thai Tobacco Monopoly. All other brands are imported. There is no international/MNC production of cigarettes in Thailand. Most cigarettes in Thailand come from Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia due to AFTA tax breaks.

As for the plonker who said that most tobacco in Asean is grown in Myanmar, I suggest he drive around Chiangmai and the North East. Plenty out there.

There isn't enough tobacco in the world to make every Marlboro/Benson and Hedges or Camel taste the same anyway.

There is very little one can do chemically to make a cigarette burn faster without ruining the taste. They can play with filters and papers to make it burn quicker and reduce tested nicotine and tar levels. They can put less tobacco into the cigarette, and can add recon tobacco to change the burn rate. Some brands in Thailand are self extinguishing because some of the global manufacturers have mandated that globally as a way of reducing fire risk.

No respectable company puts vulcanised rubber in a cigarette. It would kill you after about 5 sticks. Pesticide levels for most tobaccos in the world adhere to the EU levels because it is the industry standard.

Interesting stuff TH!

Did you know all that stuff anyway, or did you just google it?

I'm glad to see a refreshing absence of anti-smoking zealots on this thread. Makes a nice change when the subject of smoking related things is under discussion.

[Thai at Heart]

Interesting stuff TH!

Did you know all that stuff anyway, or did you just google it?

I'm glad to see a refreshing absence of anti-smoking zealots on this thread. Makes a nice change when the subject of smoking related things is under discussion.

It's my job to know it. It is an interesting industry and not too many people know too much about it.

But, most of what I said is out there on the internet.

I don't defend it or promote, although I smoke.

But when people bandy around nonsense, such as vulcanised rubber in cigarettes or adulterating cigarettes with extraneous poisonous compounds there is a limit.

Of course some cigarettes are of higher quality than others, but it isn't that simple. In the end they all go up in smoke.

[Rumfoord]

But when people bandy around nonsense, such as vulcanised rubber in cigarettes or adulterating cigarettes with extraneous poisonous compounds there is a limit.

'vulcanised rubber in cigarettes'

i was talking about FAKE brands. not that what comes from the big tobacco companies, but some trash others fabricate and then put in boxes that copy the look of Marlboro light for example. that is not only TAX free stuff, it is complete fake. don't try to save money on that one.

if they fake the brand, they fake also the plant (tobacco). like the sh*t you can buy in Tachilek. there is not only tobacco inside. faker don't care.

that has nothing to do with the real deal the tobacco industry has to offer.

[Thai at Heart]

But when people bandy around nonsense, such as vulcanised rubber in cigarettes or adulterating cigarettes with extraneous poisonous compounds there is a limit.

'vulcanised rubber in cigarettes'

i was talking about FAKE brands. not that what comes from the big tobacco companies, but some trash others fabricate and then put in boxes that copy the look of Marlboro light for example. that is not only TAX free stuff, it is complete fake. don't try to save money on that one.

if they fake the brand, they fake also the plant (tobacco). like the sh*t you can buy in Tachilek. there is not only tobacco inside. faker don't care.

that has nothing to do with the real deal the tobacco industry has to offer.

More than enough locally grown tobacco around to make counterfeit cigarettes. Fakes do exist, but they aren't as common as anyone thinks. If there is enough nicotine in the blend (homegrown burley), they can add just about any vegetable material.

If they fake the box so well that it is completely imperceptible to an amateur smoking, they aren't making much profit. The tobacco itself doesn't even get close to making up the majority of the cost of production.

[lazygourmet]

Honestly, I only use LM (red) for my morning yam...

In a combination with กัญชาบ้าน and ไม้ข่อย: that makes the "no coughting" trick!

[neverdie]

it would seem the op needs to watch a few of those 'anti smoking' ads in his home country and perhaps spend his money on a safer sport

[a2396]

get a life and stop smoking

i'm pretty sure you have to be alive in order to smoke in the first place. try opening your mouth wider when you speak. and stop eating, fat ass. AND, put a dam_n shirt on.

Get a life & start eating junk food & sugared soda drinks by the gallon & gain 50 lbs, so you can be a candidate for diabetes, as the "health conscious" have done in USA by giving up smoking.

[Rumfoord]

More than enough locally grown tobacco around to make counterfeit cigarettes. Fakes do exist, but they aren't as common as anyone thinks. If there is enough nicotine in the blend (homegrown burley), they can add just about any vegetable material.

If they fake the box so well that it is completely imperceptible to an amateur smoking, they aren't making much profit. The tobacco itself doesn't even get close to making up the majority of the cost of production.

it is not just propaganda by officials channels that are moaning about the lost TAX revenue or the anti-smoke lobby. and what is available in the cross border trade (i mean black market and not the airport dutyfree shops) isn't just local tobacco in a fancy fake brand wrapping. it is disgusting stuff, even for a smoker like me.

i am not lobbying against the tobacco industry or want to tell some horror stories and conspiration theories to demonise smoking.

just beware of the fake stuff. and it depends, fake can be also of real good quality, came from the same factory, just lacking the licence. but you can buy here also "cigarettes" that resemble shredded shoe soles smoked in a pipe and these "cigarettes" will cause for sure to he symptoms the OP describes.

you are right with all what you said and right with " No respectable company puts vulcanised rubber in a cigarette." but i never said that and i am not an anti-smoking zealots. that is my point.

what i wanted was pointing out the possibility that someone could had mistaken locally available fakes for local availabe variation of a real brand when ranting about the kind of cigarettes that are available here.

----

(not so) trivia: the stuff that they put in cigarette paper that prevents that the paper smoulder down alone when unattended, that stops the continuous burning process, it also operates as an anaphrodisiac. so be not unselective with what you are smoking.

[Thai at Heart]

More than enough locally grown tobacco around to make counterfeit cigarettes. Fakes do exist, but they aren't as common as anyone thinks. If there is enough nicotine in the blend (homegrown burley), they can add just about any vegetable material.

If they fake the box so well that it is completely imperceptible to an amateur smoking, they aren't making much profit. The tobacco itself doesn't even get close to making up the majority of the cost of production.

it is not just propaganda by officials channels that are moaning about the lost TAX revenue or the anti-smoke lobby. and what is available in the cross border trade (i mean black market and not the airport dutyfree shops) isn't just local tobacco in a fancy fake brand wrapping. it is disgusting stuff, even for a smoker like me.

i am not lobbying against the tobacco industry or want to tell some horror stories and conspiration theories to demonise smoking.

just beware of the fake stuff. and it depends, fake can be also of real good quality, came from the same factory, just lacking the licence. but you can buy here also "cigarettes" that resemble shredded shoe soles smoked in a pipe and these "cigarettes" will cause for sure to he symptoms the OP describes.

you are right with all what you said and right with " No respectable company puts vulcanised rubber in a cigarette." but i never said that and i am not an anti-smoking zealots. that is my point.

what i wanted was pointing out the possibility that someone could had mistaken locally available fakes for local availabe variation of a real brand when ranting about the kind of cigarettes that are available here.

----

(not so) trivia: the stuff that they put in cigarette paper that prevents that the paper smoulder down alone when unattended, that stops the continuous burning process, it also operates as an anaphrodisiac. so be not unselective with what you are smoking.

You are making an assumption that the major makers don't sell to anyone and everyone, honest or not? Andorra is one of the largest importers of cigarettes in the world, by Invoice. You want to buy a container, call the agents. You can buy any brand signed sealed delivered to any delivery point in the world, ex factory plus shipping. Production and delivery cost is peanuts per pack. If you can get them through customs through some mates it is your money to make. The duty is where the cost is because it is virtually impossible to produce a copy cheaper. This isn't perfume at 100 US a bottle or Louis Vuitton handbags at 1000 USD but a pack of cigarettes at 1 to 2 USD sale price of which 60% is tax.

The pack, papers, filters, foil and wrap make up over 50% to 75% of any brand production cost be it counterfeit or not. Try calling a foil manufacturer and tell him you want enough foil in close spec to Marlboro to make 1mn sticks of cigarettes and see the price you get, when the big guys are ordering enough for 600bn. Try to make a Dunhill box at a small run cost and see the price per box you can achieve? You can't just take bacofoil and put it into a cigarette maker, likewise cling film doesn't work either. There are only so many suppliers of this type of quality stuff to go around. All of this stuff is produced by the hundreds of billions. A couple of hundred million is extremely costly to produce.

So why would you bother to save fractions on the tobacco itself. Why go to the hassle of printing your own counterfeit box, when you can packed and ready from the original supplier? The production of these brands is so massive, it isn't worth investing to copy them because you can't get the economies of scale. It is perverse, but it is true.

A truly counterfeit box anywhere in the world is only 3 or 4% cheaper to produce than a real one due to scale of production. Why is there virtually never a conviction for counterfeiting cigarettes or coca-cola around the world? It is produced in such huge volume that you can't actually counterfeit it for less than the true producer and fool the consumer.

There is absolutely no proof throughout the world that anyone is shredding up shoe soles and putting that material in cigarettes be them real or counterfeit. Those cigarettes you can buy in Tachilek, in all likelihood came from an original producer and are a cheaper blend. As quickly as someone makes a fake with all it's attended risk, the original producers will find the sellers and offer real ones at a substantial discount.

Then consider that in Burma, what better way could there be for laundering ill gotten gains than purchasing real cigarettes?

Edited October 31, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Rumfoord]

There is absolutely no proof throughout the world that anyone is shredding up shoe soles and putting that material in cigarettes be them real or counterfeit. Those cigarettes you can buy in Tachilek, in all likelihood came from an original producer and are a cheaper blend. As quickly as someone makes a fake with all it's attended risk, the original producers will find the sellers and offer real ones at a substantial discount.

two ways to cross check your opinion.

1. google for "counterfeit cigarettes" (okay, you could say that is scare propaganda, because nobody pays taxes for fakes. and partly it is such propaganda when they tell you that you are support terrorism when buying fakes)

2. buy your own samples and test them.

maybe you get my picture wrong, the cigarettes or better the tobacco inside will not be entirely replaced by shredded shoe soles, but traces of material like this can be in the mix. dirt, impurity, nasty stuff that doesn't belong into a tobacco blend. these cigarettes coming from china.

who knows where they get their tobacco from. i guess that different grades of quality going into different directions. to the west quality fakes, that looks good, taste good and aren't so easy to detect that they are fakes. very low grade fakes for the local market, or burma, laos , cambodia. i don't know the insights of their trade. but i smoked or tried to smoke those cigarettes. a box, from cambodia, you could not smoke them. they tasted and smelled like you would smoke small pieces of rubber or some plastic together with tobacco.

even if cigarettes are dirty cheap, before taxes. there must be still a margin if you fake them.

and manufactors or brand name rights holder are after those counterfeit producers.

on a side note:

conviction for counterfeiting coca-cola a very different issue, but there exist such cases, a lot of them. the scenario: sampler goes into a restaurant that doesn't have coca cola on offer and orders a glass of coke, if he now gets served a glass of pepsi or any other cola brand without being beforehand informed "sorry we don't have coke, would you like xy.cola instead?" Busted! and we have one of these many copyright infringement cases.

and there are also real cases out there where people produced fake coca cola. just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

[phetaroi]

This leads me to believe the Thais are putting Extra poisonous shit in their cigarettes, possibly to make people die quicker or for some other reason.

So what you're saying is that you want cigarettes with only the normal amount of poisonous shit so that you die from smoking, but not too quickly. Okay, we understand your logic.

[carmine]

I'm clearly missing something here. Arn't they all bad for your health and make you cough and etc etc etc.

[MJo]

I'm clearly missing something here. Arn't they all bad for your health and make you cough and etc etc etc.

Yes you are, read the OP. This is not about how smoking is bad for your health but why the same brand differs between countries.

And two members arguing about shoe soles and coke...

[CrossBones]

OK well the cigarettes sold in Thailand do make you cough more, feel worse in the morning and feel less healthy. Yes of course all cigarettes are bad!!

LM are the brand sold in Thailand that make me cough less, Marlboro are really bad but not as bad as Krong Thip and Wonder and Falling Rain which are absolutely terrible. Absolutely the worst cigarettes in the world must be the fake marlboros sold over the border in Burma... Im not sure its even tobacco they put in there... some kind of other plant, sticks and sawdust possibly!!!

I guess there must be some kind of quality control in the West which makes the western cigarettes "better". Ive been smoking Drum bought in duty free... I just threw it in the bin and bought some Australian Winfield... cough has gone within half a day.

Ive tried quitting many times, once was sucessful with patches for 2 months. I will try this Zyban stuff if they give it on Medicare!

[samsung]

OK well the cigarettes sold in Thailand do make you cough more, feel worse in the morning and feel less healthy. Yes of course all cigarettes are bad!!

LM are the brand sold in Thailand that make me cough less, Marlboro are really bad but not as bad as Krong Thip and Wonder and Falling Rain which are absolutely terrible. Absolutely the worst cigarettes in the world must be the fake marlboros sold over the border in Burma... Im not sure its even tobacco they put in there... some kind of other plant, sticks and sawdust possibly!!!

I guess there must be some kind of quality control in the West which makes the western cigarettes "better". Ive been smoking Drum bought in duty free... I just threw it in the bin and bought some Australian Winfield... cough has gone within half a day.

Ive tried quitting many times, once was sucessful with patches for 2 months. I will try this Zyban stuff if they give it on Medicare!

Hello

if you have marlboro cigarrettes to sell i m interrested. i live in cambodia and will buy them from you frequently if it s a good price.

regards

samsung

samtabacco at gmx dot com

Edited February 3, 2010 by samsung

[OZEMADE]

Everytime I go to Thailand i buy cigarettes there. Usually LM. Marlboro Lights or Benson & Hedges and have tried other brands. Within a few days I get a terrible cough and hack up loads of flem.

When I return to Australia and smoke local brands here the cough goes away.

Also duty free tobacco and cigarettes bought in King Power Duty Free Bangkok are also terrible, including the brands not sold in local shops in Thailand like Camel and Lucky Strike.

This leads me to believe the Thais are putting Extra poisonous shit in their cigarettes, possibly to make people die quicker or for some other reason.

I thought it might be a mixture of the poor air quality and the cigarettes in Thailand, but when I take Thai cigarettes home I still have the cough.

From now on I will bring Australian cigarettes to Thailand to smoke even though they are 5 times the price.

Has anyone else experienced this????

I think you should learn a little about how cigarettes are made and blends are put together to match a cost before accusing people of putting extra "poisonous" stuff into cigarettes.

Australian cigarettes are a completely different "blend" style to those in Thailand. That is why you aren't used to them.

Most of the cigarettes are copies made in Cambodia. If they can copy money they certianly can copy cigarette packets and add their own blend of tobacco, it's easy to put on a DUTY TAX stamp.

[needforspeed]

ALL CIGARETTES ARE BAD

[anchan42]

We local smoke this. Much heathier.

[SeanMoran]

All the advice I can offer is to let your body stick with the same poison, and hope it copes.

For me that includes the Marlboro, and the Chang (very close to Western Australian Emu Bitter) and the food that I eat, the water I drink and the air that I breathe - anything I stick in my mouth.

There's an adjustment process though, from one geographical location to another. The air here in central Ban Chang is a different kind of pollution to the air in rural Mabkha, and who knows whether it is the Maptaphut refineries, or the diesel fumes that blow up off the highway? My cough has changed markedly, although I still stick to the same Filipino Marlboro which aren't noticably different from the Singapore duty-free carton, nor those from back in Australia.

The Marlboro are fairly close to the same poison that my lungs know and love, but there's so much other crap that gets breathed through these same lungs everyday, and it's that change of location that torments me so. Not the Marlboro.

[dmax]

i smoke LM ICE or saifon falling rain, theyre no different from any uk brands . lots of shops in thailand sell fakes.

[MrRichard2009]

Cigs are made in different places with slightly different mixtures even if the same brand, anytime you switch brands or mixtures you will get that, try going from a winston to a camel you will get the same in your home country. Basicly your body has to adjust to a different set of toxins !

[chops]

I once purchased a pack of the cheap cigs. No, not the LM stuff(which is fairly good). It was the super cheap crap(25 baht kind). It was like I was smoking paper shreds. Terrible!

[maiphedmaiaroi]

My father always gets a cough when he goes to Thailand to visit me. He blames it on the ac. Going from hot to cold all the time.

He doesnt smoke too.

[Naam]

I am guessing that it is another anti-Farang issue by poisoning the cigarettes of the Farangs.

no, i can confirm that he is right! over 8 years exactly the same experience and i'm a Marlboro smoker.

p.s. my Thai family doctor claims since years that a number of cigarette brands sold in Thailand contain additional addictive additives.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Naam

[TheKeeNok]

When selling in developing markets, I have heard about tabc companies putting extra sh#t in their ciggs that allow for faster absorption of nicotine.

Aside from that, I thought all ciggs were BAD for you!

Non0smoker for 2 months!