Us Immigration

[NanLaew]

This is my 2nd trip to the US this year and I noticed that they were taking much longer to clear each visitor through passport control. This was Houston, an airport I have been going in and out of for over 18 years. For background, I worked legally in the US for a couple of employers between 1991 and 2001 on L1 visas which ran their course without issue. I never applied for or needed a 'green card' as I never considered moving there full time. At the end of each 3-year tenure, the visa would be extended or I would be repatriated by mutual agreement with my employers.

When my turn came and the usual questions and fingerprinting, I was asked when was the last time I entered the US (last February) and if I had any 'problems' with my fingerprints (no).

"Well there's a problem today, he said. "Stand over there and someone will be with you."

Hmmmm...

So, after over 3 hours of intensive discussion in the interview room about my business and personal travel in 2002/03 and a ridiculous request to remember the EXACT reasons I was in and out of the country on EXACT dates; stating where I had come from and where I departed to... I was finally allowed to enter.

However, I have been advised that despite the answers being satisfactory, I can expect a similar level of 'secondary inspection' each and every time I re-enter the US. There's also the possibility that if I am entering via another airport from Houston, I will be denied entry and sent back to whence I came. The reason? Their system showed I overstayed twice in 2003, something I have never done but cannot be denied as their printout showed such and of course, even if I had my old passports with me (they did ask!), I wouldn't be able to prove since the US Immigration never stamp your passport on departure but rely on the airline to do your 'check-out' on departure. In fact, the 'worst case scenario' to quote the guy handling my case last Sunday was they were going to send me back to Thailand anyway. Only after 3 hours of Q&A and him running back and forth to his unseen supervisor with my answers (he would come back with even more detailed questions), I was told that they were doing their best to get me in to the country today. The guy dealing with me was half-Thai and between grilling sessions, we discussed his mothers homeland and I can't help but think that was a major factor in being allowed in as they went through their 'good cop, bad cop' routine.

Their key concern was the fact that I would enter sometimes on a passport which had a B1 visa and other times on my 2nd passport on the visa waiver system, something which as far as I am aware is legal since UK nationals can have 2 concurrent passports. The reason I stated for doing this is when I was coming to see clients and conduct business, I would use the passport with the visa and when I was coming for the Super Bowl and shooting elk in Colorado, I would come in on the visa waivered passport. Totally legal, no?

I was told that if you possess a visa, you must use ONLY that visa to enter the US regardless of having 2 totally legal passports. No exceptions.

I was told that since I had violated the B1 visa (alleged overstays), I was no longer illegible for the visa-waiver system and must procure a new US visa. But open to review each time I enter on the visa-waiver.

I was also told that if/when I apply for this new US visa, I must state my (alleged) overstays or risk denial of visa issue and being banned from entering the US entirely.

I told them I would be leaving for the UK for a short visit before returning via Houston to Thailand (airfares were good!) and would not be applying for a US visa before coming back. That's a 1 week job at their London Embassy and does NOT fit my itinerary.

So, we will see what happens when I arrive back in Houston early next month.

Welcome to the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave (and the slightly cowed long-time 'resident alien')

Edited October 29, 2009 by NanLaew

[awd]

Same thing happened a few weeks ago to my Thai wife at LAX. The airline didn't hand in her departure card so she never left according to the computer. The agent was nice enough and gave us a printed form to hand out and told us to mail it in or else! Welcome to America; it really is a savage country in so many way, we were so happy to get back to Suwannaphumi.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

This is my 2nd trip to the US this year and I noticed that they were taking much longer to clear each visitor through passport control. This was Houston, an airport I have been going in and out of for over 18 years. For background, I worked legally in the US for a couple of employers between 1991 and 2001 on L1 visas which ran their course without issue. I never applied for or needed a 'green card' as I never considered moving there full time. At the end of each 3-year tenure, the visa would be extended or I would be repatriated by mutual agreement with my employers.

When my turn came and the usual questions and fingerprinting, I was asked when was the last time I entered the US (last February) and if I had any 'problems' with my fingerprints (no).

"Well there's a problem today, he said. "Stand over there and someone will be with you."

Hmmmm...

I told them I would be leaving for the UK for a short visit before returning via Houston to Thailand (airfares were good!) and would not be applying for a US visa before coming back. That's a 1 week job at their London Embassy and does NOT fit my itinerary.

So, we will see what happens when I arrive back in Houston early next month.

Welcome to the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave (and the slightly cowed long-time 'resident alien')

Guess that argues for carrying your old passport(s) with you that do show an ARRIVAL in another country on the day, or the day after, you departed the U.S. on those two alleged "overstays."

You might also consider copying these and mailing on into CIS/ICE and requesting a correction of their database. Do the same with the U.S.Embassy Consular Section.

Mac

[Bobr]

I'm sorry my Country (America) was so rude to you. Your Country (Thailand) has been much more polite to me. I mean this constructively even though it sounds otherwise: In America law enforcement jobs pay very well and require very little education. They attract people with a very concrete and officious mentality as you experienced. Sadly Americans have willingly traded much of their freedoms for a false sense of security, and most of the government officials providing that security are low mentality persons with an exaggerated sense of self importance like the ones you described. Arrogance and stupidity are a lethal combination. I am thankful every day I wake up in Thailand.

[maxman71]

I'm sorry my Country (America) was so rude to you. Your Country (Thailand) has been much more polite to me. I mean this constructively even though it sounds otherwise: In America law enforcement jobs pay very well and require very little education. They attract people with a very concrete and officious mentality as you experienced. Sadly Americans have willingly traded much of their freedoms for a false sense of security, and most of the government officials providing that security are low mentality persons with an exaggerated sense of self importance like the ones you described. Arrogance and stupidity are a lethal combination. I am thankful every day I wake up in Thailand.

As a Yank, I can agree; many of the "HomeBoy" Security personnel are washouts who couldn't cut it in the FBI or more desirable law enforcement agencies to work for. You would be better off being an uneducated peasant Mexican and being in the US illegally. Heck, then they'd give you free medical care, a driver's license, welfare payments and have protection from any racial harassment. And, if your kid was a gang member, they'd cover the cost of his legal fees in fighting deportation. My country is going down the toilet.

[theoldgit]

On the other hand I recently flew in to Baltimore, the guy at the desk asked me the purpose of the visit and when I replied I was coming over for the weekend to attend my daughters birthday party he simply replied with a dead pan face "you are required to drink as much as possible and party for for the whole weekend" adding, with a wry smile, "I don't make the rule, I just enforce them".

I little off topic, well a lot off topic really, but it proved to me that they can be human, I know it can be a pretty mundane job, and his cheerful approach cheered me up no end and was a really good start to the weekend.

[gosompoi]

Sorry this happened, just the result of one of the most flawed exit systems in the world.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

On the other hand I recently flew in to Baltimore, the guy at the desk asked me the purpose of the visit and when I replied I was coming over for the weekend to attend my daughters birthday party he simply replied with a dead pan face "you are required to drink as much as possible and party for for the whole weekend" adding, with a wry smile, "I don't make the rule, I just enforce them".

I little off topic, well a lot off topic really, but it proved to me that they can be human, I know it can be a pretty mundane job, and his cheerful approach cheered me up no end and was a really good start to the weekend.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

INS/CIS/ICE can be friendly to arrivals, too. 4-5 years back my Thai wife & I headed to Portland via Seattle. She had just 17 days left on her passport on arrival (yes, the airline questioned that at check-in at Swampy, but smooth talker that I am, I got her through). I told the lady Immigration gal that we were just here for 14 days, had return tickets in hand, came for an unannounced, well, unplanned, favorite aunt's funeral goodbyes. The nice Immigration gal sort of apologized that she couldn't stamp Sunee in for 6 months like she normally did visitors but would 16 days be OK with us? Yep, sez I, and that was it.

Mac

[toptuan]

...America; it really is a savage country....

Please spare us the melodrama....

[theoldgit]

Sorry this happened, just the result of one of the most flawed exit systems in the world.

I seem to remember them trialing a system which was a machine which looked very similar to the ones they use for self check these days, I think I scanned my passport on this machine which was located air-side and entered the details of my flight and it gave me a printed receipt of my departure, presumably logging my details onto their database.

I agree that their exit system is flawed so it beggars th question why do they place so much reliance on it, with the passengers being forced to explain their mistakes?

[NanLaew]

A few points. In my hundreds of entries to the continental US, this is the first time I have been hassled. I have had some surly types and I have had some friendly ones making the entry decision. In fact, the 'good cop' on my recent go-around recommended an awesome Thai restaurant that I just checked out for breakfast this morning. Real Thai food... not the Americanised crap.

The suggestion to look in my old passports for entry stamps to onward or return countries to support my contention that their database is wrong just won't work IMHO. If I flew out to Paris, London or another country that is 'stampless' for certain nationalities (like mine), my passport is never stamped on arrival. In fact most countries that do stamp you 'in' also stamp you 'out' so there's no arguments. The US system does suck. I could keep all my boarding passes I suppose but in my case, that's an awful lot of stubs to be lugging around.

The thought of actually writing up a challenge to their assertion is mind boggling. Me, a lowly Brit daring to suggest that a Federal computer system is flawed? These are the people that we cannot joke with remember? When they refused to give me copies of their printouts so I could cross-check with my old passports just for grins, I knew that this was a case of guilty until confirmed guilty without appeal. I mean, if it took them 6 years to catch up on records from 2002/3, I seriously doubt that they will leap to address any written concerns. Then, chances are if my appeal only revealed that I did actually inadvertently overstay, then the punishment may be even more draconian.

[samran]

the airline forgot to take my wife's departure card back in 2003 and I knew from reading threads like this that even through she left after 1 week in the states she might appear as an overstay.

There was an address where you can send a letter and whatever evidence you have to 'wipe' this record. I recall us sending her passport copy (which fortunately did have the stamps in them) as well as copies of work contracts, leases, mobile phone bills etc showing you couldn't have possibly been overstaying in the states in 2003. A while back I know, but your personal files at home may have some things on there to prove that you did not overstay.

Anyway, in our case we sailed through immigration at dallas fw a few months later....so maybe writing to them really does work.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry this happened, just the result of one of the most flawed exit systems in the world.

Europe, incuding the UK, takes some beating

[Heng]

I usually just get the 'are you bringing any live animals or fresh fruits into the country?" and the customs guy then gives a long 3-5 second stare (sometimes which continues even after I answer) as if he is using his Jedi powers to make me reveal the truth. Then it's 'thank you sir, have a nice day,' without even going through my stuff.

[ericthai]

I usually just get the 'are you bringing any live animals or fresh fruits into the country?" and the customs guy then gives a long 3-5 second stare (sometimes which continues even after I answer) as if he is using his Jedi powers to make me reveal the truth. Then it's 'thank you sir, have a nice day,' without even going through my stuff.

This always make me laugh, like someone it going to say yes.. It's just like when police stop you and ask, have you been drinking?

Are you carrying any drugs? etc... you are right what do they thing they have Jedi powers and if you are laying you are going to tell the truth.. lol

[enquirer]

I have to say that the first time I went to Bangkok, on leaving I handed my passport over, took it back, returned to UK. The second visit, I was taken away from passport control and grilled for 30 minutes - it turned out no-one had stamped my passport when I left a few months before. Eventually one of the police handwrote an exit visa and let me go. Slightly worrying, but they were polite.

[NanLaew]

I was chatting with a friend who is a Houston attorney with a large immigration business and he confirmed that the databases that are accessible to the Immigration Officer processing your first entry has increased, hence the much longer passport checking time.

I will add that while I was waiting for my grilling, about a dozen people came and went through the secondary inspection room. A hispanic lady was served some paperwork regarding something 'pending' from a divorce and I think she was told that it was something that had to be taken care of before she left (my Spanish isn't all that great). Another young German chap was explaining the history of some sculpture that had been made in Austin, Texas and had been exported to Germany and subsequently returned to the US. He had copies of airwaybills and such. Makes me wonder what databases these two people were on and I think validates the attorneys assertion that there's more than just pictures and fingerprints on file now.

[NanLaew]

the airline forgot to take my wife's departure card back in 2003 and I knew from reading threads like this that even through she left after 1 week in the states she might appear as an overstay.

There was an address where you can send a letter and whatever evidence you have to 'wipe' this record. I recall us sending her passport copy (which fortunately did have the stamps in them) as well as copies of work contracts, leases, mobile phone bills etc showing you couldn't have possibly been overstaying in the states in 2003. A while back I know, but your personal files at home may have some things on there to prove that you did not overstay.

Anyway, in our case we sailed through immigration at dallas fw a few months later....so maybe writing to them really does work.

This is reassuring to know that there is a way of addressing any incorrect overstay issues. I mean, it's not unrealistic that some of the millions of I-94 stubs removed by airline check-in staff don't make it to some immigration 'clearing house' and close the loop. However, the onus remains on me to prove that their system is wrong and due to the nature of my work where I would was in and out of several countries during the period in question and some of those never stamp passports on arrival, ie. transit AMS and go home to UK.

On another tack, here's a question for non- UK passport holders or residents: Does UK immigration stamp your passport on entry and exit, either or both? Or neither?

[theoldgit]

On another tack, here's a question for non- UK passport holders or residents: Does UK immigration stamp your passport on entry and exit, either or both? Or neither?

Non EU citizens will normally have their passport stamps on entry to the UK, but as there are currently no embarkation controls passports are not normally stamped on leaving the UK. I say normally because at some ports there are UKBA desks on departure but they are not always staffed, and if they are they will rarely stamp your passport, unless there is evidence of an overstay.