Thaksins Land Deal Conviction

[Serpico]

TJTS (thailandjumpedtheshark ) Blog on Thaksins involvement on the land deal.

The Nation's Dishonest Editorial on the Ratchadapisek Case

The Nation

excerpt:

The Supreme Court has ruled that Thaksin broke the law by giving his wife official consent to buy state-owned land in Ratchadaphisek.

While the ruling and other incidents involving Thaksin have divided Thailand more than anything in history, one thing is clear: Law was violated in the acquisition of the land and finding Thaksin guilty for it is purely legal, not political.

Chalerm was mixing things up to try and reinforce the blurred picture that Thaksin is trying to present to the world that what happened to him was "political", not legal. Of course, the coup was a big setback for democracy. But irrespective of the coup that deposed him, Thaksin violated the law and needs to be imprisoned. Everything is there in the letter of the law.

I don't know why The Nation insists on lying and distorting this case all the time.

Here are the facts:

The court never found Thaksin guilty of any collusion on the bidding.

There was no injury to the state.

There was no criminal conspiracy to defraud the public.

MR Pridiyathorn Devakula signed off on the deal and testified in Thaksin's favor.

Potjaman was never found guilty of any crime and didn't have the land confiscated.

In fact, Thaksin was compelled under Thai law to sign the land transfer documents because Thailand is a community property country.

Now, I guess one could make an ethical argument that the prime minister's wife shouldn't be buying land during his tenure just to keep appearances up.

But an ethical lapse doesn't mean one should get 2 years in the gaol.

The Nation refuses to tell the truth about the case because it might interfere with its "Get Thaksin" propaganda and might have to stop referring to Thaksin as that corrupt prime minister fugitive from justice.

[rixalex]

Without having studied in Thai law, and without having been privy to all the evidence that was presented before the courts, i would say it's difficult to make a judgement.

As we know, there is a massive backlog of cases against Thaksin that have been stalled by his absense.

[KHarrelson]

Who exactly is: thailandjumpedtheshark ?

Which not knowing is part of the hazards of posting blog entries. It's an unclear anonymity that the news from the general media doesn't have. That makes it open to all sorts of unknown biases and agendas.

Also, can we post links to another forum? (a blogger's comments' box is essentially a forum)

[PoorSucker]

2 years.

Tell that to the victims of Thaskins "war on drugs"

He got a trial and his brother in law was PM during sentencing.

[rixalex]

He got a trial and his brother in law was PM during sentencing.

That's true.

Also shouldn't forget he happily accepted the court's verdict in the past. The fact that on those past occasions they found in his favour had i'm sure nothing to do with it.

[Samuian]

Yes I love it!

He is innocent!

It just all happen to happen, the rest is a huge conspiracy against him!

Yes, because people do not like his style, his wealth his incredible honest mistakes..

The land in the very CENTER of Bangkok, Radjadapisek,

fell in his wifes lap, accidentally, it is worth much more then being paid for purely by accident,

and it's position too, there simply was only 3 other bidders, understandable, he as the PM did not know

that it was his wife who purchased the land, and that it was her name on the documents HE signed!

The victims of Tak Bai, they choked themselves to death,

the nearly 3000 dead people ran into the bullets of other"crime syndicates",

the law about NOT paying taxes on big share sales out of the

country needed to be amended for the good of all!

Just accidentally he made some giant profits, not paying taxes on the Temasek deal -

all accidentally - the opposition, the "dictators" simply envy his wealth,

which his "little daughter" accumulated in a rather short time frame, er with the speed of light,

just finished college, well she is ab blessed one, because everything she touches

turnes to gold... simple magic touch !

That's all, and for that the "bad, dark and evil forces" envy him, nay his whole family - they are all innocent,

he had to flee because he still has to do so much good for the country and these forces won't let him do it!

Yes, it's so sad, the entire country could by now be suvannabhum indeed, not only the airport's name,

where also evil forces caused the scan, parking house scandal and the broken, poor quality runways....

Nope, he is a truly honest and good man, but people are biased against his "golden touch"...

all plain envy...and a giant conspiracy by the elite of this country - yep... it's all against his "magic golden touch"

they won't let him do more good, make poverty disappear and make every poor soul a shareholder of his amassed

fortunes, from projectionist to telecommunications magnate with the speed of light.... he is simply a "lucky man"!

Edited November 1, 2009 by Samuian

[PoorSucker]

Don't forget Somchai Neelaphaijit.

[Serpico]

Yes I love it!

He is innocent!

It just all happen to happen, the rest is a huge conspiracy against him!

Yes, because people do not like his style, his wealth his incredible honest mistakes..

The land in the very CENTER of Bangkok, Radjadapisek,

fell in his wifes lap, accidentally, it is worth much more then being paid for purely by accident,

and it's position too, there simply was only 3 other bidders, understandable, he as the PM did not know

that it was his wife who purchased the land, and that it was her name on the documents HE signed!

The victims of Tak Bai, they choked themselves to death,

the nearly 3000 dead people ran into the bullets of other"crime syndicates",

the law about NOT paying taxes on big share sales out of the

country needed to be amended for the good of all!

Just accidentally he made some giant profits, not paying taxes on the Temasek deal -

all accidentally - the opposition, the "dictators" simply envy his wealth,

which his "little daughter" accumulated in a rather short time frame, er with the speed of light,

just finished college, well she is ab blessed one, because everything she touches

turnes to gold... simple magic touch !

That's all, and for that the "bad, dark and evil forces" envy him, nay his whole family - they are all innocent,

he had to flee because he still has to do so much good for the country and these forces won't let him do it!

Yes, it's so sad, the entire country could by now be suvannabhum indeed, not only the airport's name,

where also evil forces caused the scan, parking house scandal and the broken, poor quality runways....

Nope, he is a truly honest and good man, but people are biased against his "golden touch"...

all plain envy...and a giant conspiracy by the elite of this country - yep... it's all against his "magic golden touch"

they won't let him do more good, make poverty disappear and make every poor soul a shareholder of his amassed

fortunes, from projectionist to telecommunications magnate with the speed of light.... he is simply a "lucky man"!

Wow. You really gobble up the propaganda served up in The Nation eh?

[Huey]

Yeah I think I'll go with the Nation on this one over the angry ramblings of some red shirt terrorist sympathizer.

[jayjayjayjay]

Yeah I think I'll go with the Nation on this one over the angry ramblings of some red shirt terrorist sympathizer.

The Nation is full of opinion pieces, it is no longer a real newspaper, that's what I would have called it pre-2000.

[Steve2UK]

Strange-looking link but worth a read as part of the background to understanding the case - for those who can be bothered to do their own research as opposed to simply swallowing the pre-digested script.

http://neworangecafe.org/index.php?option=...1:top-headlines

[Asa]

Ink's OP in B-Post forum is most read and responded topic. After some 700 replies, he quited It may have something to do with Post Forum editing policy.

Personally, I view the conviction is hard to believe, including the pursuant requests to strip TS of rank and royal decorations from this particular case. Something wrong with your car, it's gasohol.

[Samuian]

Yes I love it!

He is innocent!

It just all happen to happen, the rest is a huge conspiracy against him!

Yes, because people do not like his style, his wealth his incredible honest mistakes..

The land in the very CENTER of Bangkok, Radjadapisek,

fell in his wifes lap, accidentally, it is worth much more then being paid for purely by accident,

and it's position too, there simply was only 3 other bidders, understandable, he as the PM did not know

that it was his wife who purchased the land, and that it was her name on the documents HE signed!

The victims of Tak Bai, they choked themselves to death,

the nearly 3000 dead people ran into the bullets of other"crime syndicates",

the law about NOT paying taxes on big share sales out of the

country needed to be amended for the good of all!

Just accidentally he made some giant profits, not paying taxes on the Temasek deal -

all accidentally - the opposition, the "dictators" simply envy his wealth,

which his "little daughter" accumulated in a rather short time frame, er with the speed of light,

just finished college, well she is ab blessed one, because everything she touches

turnes to gold... simple magic touch !

That's all, and for that the "bad, dark and evil forces" envy him, nay his whole family - they are all innocent,

he had to flee because he still has to do so much good for the country and these forces won't let him do it!

Yes, it's so sad, the entire country could by now be suvannabhum indeed, not only the airport's name,

where also evil forces caused the scan, parking house scandal and the broken, poor quality runways....

Nope, he is a truly honest and good man, but people are biased against his "golden touch"...

all plain envy...and a giant conspiracy by the elite of this country - yep... it's all against his "magic golden touch"

they won't let him do more good, make poverty disappear and make every poor soul a shareholder of his amassed

fortunes, from projectionist to telecommunications magnate with the speed of light.... he is simply a "lucky man"!

Wow. You really gobble up the propaganda served up in The Nation eh?

"

Wow. You really gobble up the propaganda served up in The Nation eh?"

gobble, gobble, gobble, crunch, crunch... so there 100's of dead from the songkran rampage in bkk,

but ehem' in the time of "everyonehasamobilephonewithdigicam" aera, there are no

pic's, no evidence, not a single thread, BUT Tak Bai, Kru Sae, the war on drugs, the disappearance of a human right advocate,

are simply manufactured and Propaganda by The Nation...

going to the "reds", what ever they have been doing, or saying, they haven't been doing or saying it, it's always someone else who want's to harm their"good cause"... how much more crazy can it get - how much off the board someone must be to side with this PROPAGANDA?

the "honest mistake", the "cake box -gate", the cracks in the runways of the brand new airport, the incredible speed of light increase in wealth, now after the "law" is stretching it's hand after him it's all of a sudden created by HIS DAUGHTER and he talks about his "life savings" poor man, and, and, and it's ALL but PROPAGANDA by "The Nation" - well, you fail to bring up ANY evidence that it is NOT so, that all this DID NOT happen in the time when HE was at the helm, in command, the Prime Minister of this country, in charge- as he said many times "I am running this country like a company - so with he should take FULL responsibility!

Blogs and Post's can be tuned, transcripts of cirumstance be manipulated and madeup..

I don't know Mr.Ink, I don't know much about Thai Law - but I still got some very good understanding of whois who and a fine memory on what happened when and through whom..

My list is by far not complete,maybe the entire gross circumference of what this an and his Entourage really scrapped up maybe to a much larger extend then anyone may be able to imagine...this might be in fine print!

...at least you got some healthy humor to believe you can dish this 'truth" out... good try, but way too transparent, come again!

Are you one of those show wizards playing "air-guitar" on a regular base?

Edited November 4, 2009 by Samuian

[Changian]

Thailand Jumped The Shark, New Mandala and the excellent Bangkok Pundit are way more informative than The Nation when it comes to anything political in Thailand. The Nation has been caught out many times rewriting history to suit it's master's views.

[KHarrelson]

Who exactly is: thailandjumpedtheshark ?

Which not knowing is part of the hazards of posting blog entries. It's an unclear anonymity that the news from the general media doesn't have. That makes it open to all sorts of unknown biases and agendas.

Am I to presume nobody knows who exactly is thailandjumpedtheshark?

Strange-looking link but worth a read as part of the background to understanding the case - for those who can be bothered to do their own research as opposed to simply swallowing the pre-digested script.

http://neworangecafe.org/index.php?option=...1:top-headlines

Who exactly is the author of this blog: *ink ?

Thailand Jumped The Shark, New Mandala and the excellent Bangkok Pundit are way more informative than The Nation when it comes to anything political in Thailand. The Nation has been caught out many times rewriting history to suit it's master's views.

Who exactly is Bangkok Pundit?

But I do notice that Thailand Jumped The Shark, Orange Cafe, Bangkok Post (referenced in another post above), New Mandala, and Bangkok Pundit all have their own version of a forum so perhaps we should move the discussion to these other forums or at least discuss the frailties of these other forums on this forum?

Edited November 4, 2009 by KHarrelson

[Nio]

TJTS (thailandjumpedtheshark ) Blog on Thaksins involvement on the land deal.

The Nation's Dishonest Editorial on the Ratchadapisek Case

The Nation

excerpt:

The Supreme Court has ruled that Thaksin broke the law by giving his wife official consent to buy state-owned land in Ratchadaphisek.

While the ruling and other incidents involving Thaksin have divided Thailand more than anything in history, one thing is clear: Law was violated in the acquisition of the land and finding Thaksin guilty for it is purely legal, not political.

Chalerm was mixing things up to try and reinforce the blurred picture that Thaksin is trying to present to the world that what happened to him was "political", not legal. Of course, the coup was a big setback for democracy. But irrespective of the coup that deposed him, Thaksin violated the law and needs to be imprisoned. Everything is there in the letter of the law.

I don't know why The Nation insists on lying and distorting this case all the time.

Here are the facts:

The court never found Thaksin guilty of any collusion on the bidding.

There was no injury to the state.

There was no criminal conspiracy to defraud the public.

MR Pridiyathorn Devakula signed off on the deal and testified in Thaksin's favor.

Potjaman was never found guilty of any crime and didn't have the land confiscated.

In fact, Thaksin was compelled under Thai law to sign the land transfer documents because Thailand is a community property country.

Now, I guess one could make an ethical argument that the prime minister's wife shouldn't be buying land during his tenure just to keep appearances up.

But an ethical lapse doesn't mean one should get 2 years in the gaol.

The Nation refuses to tell the truth about the case because it might interfere with its "Get Thaksin" propaganda and might have to stop referring to Thaksin as that corrupt prime minister fugitive from justice.

You have your facts crossed

The damage to the state was that land was bought for well under the asking price and how do you think they knew how much to bid

Second thing start following the Alpine Golf Course Case

Old Thai lady dies, wills all the land to the monastery, some shady deals puts the land in the hands of Thaksin who builds Alpine Golf Course

Supreme Court Rules land should never have been transfered from Monastery and that Alpine golf has to give it back

[Rumfoord]

Who exactly is: thailandjumpedtheshark ?

Am I to presume nobody knows who exactly is thailandjumpedtheshark?

Who exactly is the author of this blog: *ink ?

Who exactly is Bangkok Pundit?

Johnny Nobody knows. Johnny Nobody cares.

Johnny Nobody knows who exactly is KHarrelson.

[KHarrelson]

^ Drunk posting doesn't add much to the discussion.

My point being, for those not sober enough to recognize it, is that even if quality of the local formal print media is lacking, the reader knows who the author is.

For all anyone knows, thailandjumpedtheshark is Noppadon and *ink is Jakrapob. Would that be information worthwhile knowing when considering what they are blogging?

Edited November 4, 2009 by KHarrelson

[nisakiman]

Thailand Jumped The Shark, New Mandala and the excellent Bangkok Pundit are way more informative than The Nation when it comes to anything political in Thailand. The Nation has been caught out many times rewriting history to suit it's master's views.

New Mandala is my preferred portal to what's happening in Asia. The political bias is not quite so in-your-face.

And despite all the histrionics, what Thaksin is supposedly guilty of is only on a par with what all Thai politicians consider to be the perks of the job.

I really can't see what all the fuss is about. Sure, if all the rest of the Thai political establishment were pure as the driven snow, then perhaps Thaksin could be justifiably hounded. But as things stand? Looks like a politically driven witch-hunt to me.

[Rumfoord]

^ Drunk posting doesn't add much to the discussion.

My point being, for those not sober enough to recognize it, is that even if quality of the local formal print media is lacking, the reader knows who the author is.

For all anyone knows, thailandjumpedtheshark is Noppadon and *ink is Jakrapob. Would that be information worthwhile knowing when considering what they are blogging?

Just because Johnny Nobody knows who exactly is the author, doesn't mean we should ignore the text at all.

some argue that the author's intention is not important. look at the text. analyse the content. readers can think for themselves.

further reading:

Roland Barthes: The Death of the Author.

the text is online in the web archive of the Aspen magazine. http://www.ubu.com/aspen/aspen5and6/threeEssays.html#barthes

[slimdog]

My point being, for those not sober enough to recognize it, is that even if quality of the local formal print media is lacking, the reader knows who the author is.

For all anyone knows, thailandjumpedtheshark is Noppadon and *ink is Jakrapob. Would that be information worthwhile knowing when considering what they are blogging?

Knowing who an individual blogger is can help first time viewers, however for most bloggers its their reputation which is of more importance than their actual identity. Reputations have to be earned, and when earned can be an important source of additional information, even if it is only to put a completely opposite twist on a story.

The main (English Language) bloggers involved with Thai politics are individuals who have taken a particular subject and made it their own.

Bangkokpundit is broadly about politics, but gives his viewers the insight of not only the English Language publications but also the Thai Language ones too. This with an insight into the players, means that his views are quite often interesting. Generally well respected, one of the very few blogs to be mentioned in the English language newspapers, and his tweets as well as Thailandjumpedtheshark are followed by some very influential individuals including the current Prime Minister and Finance Minister.

Thailandjumpedtheshark (TJTS), is a blogger by the name of Fonzi, his speciality is decomposing The Nation editorials and columnists. Sometimes insightful, sometimes funny. But he does seem to do his homework considerably better than the individuals who's columns are decomposed.

In this particular blog, the story is an editorial about a parliamentry debate featuring Chalerm Yoobamrung, when he questioned whether Article 3/1 (Reasons for Mandatory refusal) of the Treaty between Cambodia and Thailand could be used by Cambodia in Thaksins case due to the trial having taking place in The Supreme Court for Political Office Holders. The editorial in questioned attacked Chalerm saying that he was trying to muddy the waters and that the crime was legal matter rather than Political one, and that Thaksin deserved to be in Jail for his crime..

Fonzi attacked the editorial as using lies to justify their own political bias and proceeded to list a number of facts, which are actually a matter of public record, as the judgement by the Supreme Court is published and available at the Supreme Court's website.

For me it would have been more interesting for The Nation to have written about the nature of the court (Political Office holder) and how it may affect any extradition request, rather than saying that it is simply a legal matter rather than Political. All extradition requests are of a legal nature, and involve legal matters, but that doesn't mean that they cannot be construed as being of a Political Nature as well.

Extradition of Thaksin is always going to come up with the "Politcial Nature" and the "Dual Criminality" of the offence.

As an aside, the Thaksin conviction has thrown a rather big issue at the NCCC. During the next 12 months the NCCC are going to be re-writing Article 4 of the NCCC Act, at the moment (especially regarding Article 100, which is Thaksins offence) only covers around a 100 or so individuals; Cabinet Members, Senior Officials, Senior BMA officials and State enterprise Directors, within the next year, the list is due to add an additional 150,000 individuals (Lower level officials as well as all Tambon and provincial officials) as these will be covered by the newly created PACC (Public Sector Anti Corruption Committee). The NCCC has already commented that Article 100 may need to be ammended, so that only cases of corruption linked to the article are covered, however, Thaksin (who is the only individual to have been tried under Article 100) was convicted where no evidence of corruption was found. Sections 152 & 157 of the criminal code (Malfeasance in Office) were dismissed by the judgement of the court.

Whilst this in no way changes the verdict of the court, it may have a bearing on any future extradition request and would generally play into Thaksins hand.

Edited November 5, 2009 by slimdog

[Steve2UK]

My point being, for those not sober enough to recognize it, is that even if quality of the local formal print media is lacking, the reader knows who the author is.

For all anyone knows, thailandjumpedtheshark is Noppadon and *ink is Jakrapob. Would that be information worthwhile knowing when considering what they are blogging?

Knowing who an individual blogger is can help first time viewers, however for most bloggers its their reputation which is of more importance than their actual identity. Reputations have to be earned, and when earned can be an important source of additional information, even if it is only to put a completely opposite twist on a story.

The main (English Language) bloggers involved with Thai politics are individuals who have taken a particular subject and made it their own.

Bangkokpundit is broadly about politics, but gives his viewers the insight of not only the English Language publications but also the Thai Language ones too. This with an insight into the players, means that his views are quite often interesting. Generally well respected, one of the very few blogs to be mentioned in the English language newspapers, and his tweets as well as Thailandjumpedtheshark are followed by some very influential individuals including the current Prime Minister and Finance Minister.

Thailandjumpedtheshark (TJTS), is a blogger by the name of Fonzi, his speciality is decomposing The Nation editorials and columnists. Sometimes insightful, sometimes funny. But he does seem to do his homework considerably better than the individuals who's columns are decomposed.

<snip>

With regard to TJTS/Fonzi, perhaps "deconstructing" or "debunking" rather than "decomposing"? (but I also like slimdog's term ). Overall IMO a very fair description of these two blogs. I have tracked Bangkok Pundit for some time - long enough to see that he respects facts and fair play in what he writes (something that The Nation has no reputation for). Also that he is well-connected - and when he only thinks/suspects something based on sources he can't openly attribute, that is how he'll refer to it rather than simply stating it as if it were proven fact. No secret that he's critical of this government as well as of PAD, military and sundry other behind-the-scenes operators - but you'll also see some criticism directed at the excesses of Peua Thai, UDD etc (given how much full-on assault on them that's to be found elsewhere, would anyone reasonably expect him to duplicate it?). Similarly, I think it's BP that coined the term "quotemeister" for Thitinan - with whom he has often disagreed. Like TJTS/Fonzi, he does do his homework - and cites detail and linked references for what he says rather than simply re-cycling received dogma; both are a far cry from producing "the angry ramblings of some red shirt terrorist sympathizer" referred to earlier. Both freely publish opposing comments - and IMO the debate there (BP, particularly) is usually more informed and less knee-jerk than one sees all too often on The Nation's forum.......... .

All that said, I would never rely on just one or two or a few sources for information/analysis/comment from which to form my views. As others have said before now, it takes a lot more than that to have any chance of getting to grips with the convolutions of Thai politics and putting events in a viable context.

PS, until being led to the neworangecafe ("If law is law") link I posted earlier I hadn't seen the site - so, as per the quotes above, I can't comment on their reputation for accuracy/reliability. Nevertheless, the detailed legal specifics covered there seem to me to warrant examination - and I note that even the most vocal and categorical champions of the case's legitimacy have been noticeably silent in contesting them let alone showing them to be false. I'm not in the habit of posting links to sites just to "turn up the volume"; if those details are incorrect, let's see the what and why.

[Rumfoord]

looking at the recent developments makes me think that Thaksins conviction in that land deal was indeed political motivated.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thanks Serpico for posting!!! Indeed I do believe that far too many 'Farangs' get brainwashed by some major English language newspapers, in addition to bar stool banter.. I think the bar stool banter originally dates back all the way to some people misinterpreting TS' party name 'Thai Rak Thai' as meaning that others were being excluded, followed by thinking that the social order campaign was aimed at their 'entertainment' activities rather than Thai society / youth at large.

Anyway, it's good to occasionally read a word of dissent on this forum; keep it up. Not everyone gobbles up the fodder that we're being fed..

Edited November 7, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[rixalex]

Not everyone gobbles up the fodder that we're being fed..

That's true. There are some who gorged so heavily on gobbling up the previous batch of fodder they are still bloated.

[Serpico]

Thailand Jumped The Shark, New Mandala and the excellent Bangkok Pundit are way more informative than The Nation when it comes to anything political in Thailand. The Nation has been caught out many times rewriting history to suit it's master's views.

Exactly.

If you rely on The Nation or Bangkok Post, you are getting bad info put out by the Junta.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Serpico

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Not everyone gobbles up the fodder that we're being fed..

That's true. There are some who gorged so heavily on gobbling up the previous batch of fodder they are still bloated.

The previous batch is out of office for quite a while now, so we do have the advantage of being able to judge that time based on actual achievements, as wells as actual mistakes. There are plenty examples of both.

[rixalex]

Thailand Jumped The Shark, New Mandala and the excellent Bangkok Pundit are way more informative than The Nation when it comes to anything political in Thailand. The Nation has been caught out many times rewriting history to suit it's master's views.

Exactly.

If you rely on The Nation or Bangkok Post, you are getting bad info put out by the Junta.

As there is bad and tainted info on TJTS, NM and BP. Accepting that none of the sources are free from bias, the intelligent thing to do is to read from a broad and diverse spectrum. Sadly though people often simply choose to read the print that reinforces the conclusions they have already come to.

[rixalex]

The previous batch is out of office for quite a while now, so we do have the advantage of being able to judge that time based on actual achievements, as wells as actual mistakes. There are plenty examples of both.

For some sadly this isn't the case. Propoganda has the power to affect people's judgement and establish in them preset beliefs that even the passage of time and the surfacing of new contradictory evidence fails to dim.

[Steve2UK]

Thailand Jumped The Shark, New Mandala and the excellent Bangkok Pundit are way more informative than The Nation when it comes to anything political in Thailand. The Nation has been caught out many times rewriting history to suit it's master's views.

Exactly.

If you rely on The Nation or Bangkok Post, you are getting bad info put out by the Junta.

As there is bad and tainted info on TJTS, NM and BP. Accepting that none of the sources are free from bias, the intelligent thing to do is to read from a broad and diverse spectrum. Sadly though people often simply choose to read the print that reinforces the conclusions they have already come to.

It would be helpful to have at least some example of what you consider "bad and tainted info on TJTS, NM and BP". That part aside, I 100% agree with what you go on to say - and likewise with the view in your following post "Propaganda has the power to affect people's judgement and establish in them preset beliefs that even the passage of time and the surfacing of new contradictory evidence fails to dim". Speaking of evidence, I note again that there is still no response (from those so vocal and categorical about the "facts" of the land case) to the detailed points raised in the New Orange Cafe "If law is law" link I posted earlier. Just questioning the identity of the writer doesn't deal with the legal specifics raised in it - is what's written there correct or false?

Back to the point about sources of information. Perhaps the following quote looks like it must have dropped off the pages of sites like TJTS, NM and BP (granted I did see it first at BP):

"In Thailand, politics dominates law. Seemingly solid evidence in Thaksin's share-concealment case in 2001 gave way to political factors. His party's violation of electoral laws, which was intended to fix a constitutional deadlock resulting from a Democrat-boycotted election, was dealt with only after he was out of power. In other words, when it comes to the really big cases affecting the status quo, it doesn't quite matter what the laws say or how strong the evidence is. The decisive force is what the politics says." [my bold emphasis]

It's actually from yesterday's editorial in The Nation about the Saxena case (and, to comply with forum rules, I'll post the full article separately next - the quote above is the third paragraph from the end). IMO the view it expresses (it's also the headline of the editorial) cannot help but be applicable to consideration of the land case verdict. Given that this view would certainly seem to fit comfortably on the pages of TJTS, NM, BP etc - one starts to wonder if this is a] The Nation finally catching up and/or b] the wheel of Thai politics is starting to turn more obviously again (perhaps I go too far).