New Airport "sometime" Next Year

[JimGant]

Reading in the Bangkok Post that the new airport will nowopen "sometime next year" (the previous 'latest' had been March 2006), I just wonder what will Don Muang be used for then? Yes, the RTAF occupies the otherside of the field -- and probably will continue to. But any news on what else will happen there?

And will the new airport serve both international and domestic? Or will Don Muang remain the domestic terminal, at least at first?

[udon]

DM might become the hub of Asia for airfreight

Just another hub........!

[ProThaiExpat]

I read somewhere that the "old airport" would be used for cargo aircraft. Likewise there was mention of charter flights using it as well. Even some mention of domestic flights using it, but of course that seems problematical due to airlines having to distinguish between flights in which passengers transfer to international flights and those that don't.

My guess is cargo and charter, neither of which need to iterface with interntional or domestic flights.

Does anyone know of any reason why cargo aircraft need to land at the same airport as international or domestic flights. Yes airshipping to non-bkk airports would require a truck trip to the new airport.

[thedude]

according to various government people i've spoken to who are involved with the new airport, it seems that both domestic and air cargo will be relocated to Suvarnabhumi.

for obvious reasons, i think the domestic and international terminal should be close to each other to allow for easy transfers in and out bound.

people i've spoken to in logistics also say that it is better for air cargo services to be located together with the international terminal, although i can't really figure why from a logistics management point of view.

however from the airport's point of view the AOT (now a publicly listed company)would obviously want to have air cargo relocated because it forms a very significant part of revenues. the new airport will be the single largest terminal in the world, so i'd imagine they need to utilise it to the fullest capacity in order to recoup the investment early on. the government has also announced its intention to further develop the Suvarnabhumi area into an "Aerotropolis", a fully integrated, satellite city of some 290 sq km with air transport, logistics, convention centres, and various other commercial, residential and entertainment zones.

as to Don Muang, i'd say it would at least partially be an extention of the existing military airbase, as well as to serve the massive new government center soon to be located at Chaeng Wattana. it might also serve as a cheaper alternative for regional budget airlines that do more point-to-point business and who may want to pay less landing fees and other charges, although i'm sure the AOT would object if they had their way.

[chanchao]

> people i've spoken to in logistics also say that it is better for air cargo

> services to be located together with the international terminal, although i

> can't really figure why from a logistics management point of view.

Ok:

1. Air cargo sometimes goes on another domestic hop as well. Then again I think Nim See Seng would love to truck all that from Suvarnabhumi to Don Mueang and back; and those Bangkok expressways and Vipawadee Rangsit roads are so under-used as it is, so, yeah!

2. Even air cargo that doesn't fly on domestically typically gets loaded on to trucks for further distribution. Now would you want to do that on a seriously busy Bangkok artery (Vipawadee Rangsit) or somewhere well clear of Bangkok?

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Personally though, if they option was at all available then I'd fly into Don Muang any time. No way would I be landing in the snakepit-swamp half-way to Chachoengsao if I can possible actually land in Bangkok.

[thedude]

Thanks Chanchao, that's interesting, i never knew that. Would a domestic hop for air cargo also involve civilian passengers on the same flight? I can understand the need for air cargo to be located near logistics centers but i couldn't really understand why it needed to be located together with passenger terminals.

I'd also prefer Don Muang for now because it seems so close to the city. But i'm told they are already constructing an express train that will go direct from Makkasan to Suvarnabhumi in about 17 minutes (there will also be a MRT type normal train riding on a separate line with 3 stops in between Makkasan and the airport). And just like in Hong Kong, you get to check in your luggage at the downtown train station and never see it again until you arrive at your destination airport. All you do is get to the Makkasan city air terminal, check in, hop on the train, and you're at Suvarnabhumi in less than 30 mins with nothing to carry. I love that arrangement because it will take away the uncertainty of traffic conditions en route to the airport, especially for those who live/work in the city.

[alex100]

according to various government people i've spoken to who are involved with the new airport, it seems that both domestic and air cargo will be relocated to Suvarnabhumi. 

for obvious reasons, i think the domestic and international terminal should be close to each other to allow for easy transfers in and out bound.

people i've spoken to in logistics also say that it is better for air cargo services to be located together with the international terminal, although i can't really figure why from a logistics management point of view. 

however from the airport's point of view the AOT (now a publicly listed company)would obviously want to have air cargo relocated because it forms a very significant part of revenues.  the new airport will be the single largest terminal in the world, so i'd imagine they need to utilise it to the fullest capacity in order to recoup the investment early on.  the government has also announced its intention to further develop the Suvarnabhumi area into an "Aerotropolis", a fully integrated, satellite city of some 290 sq km with air transport, logistics, convention centres, and various other commercial, residential and entertainment zones.

as to Don Muang, i'd say it would at least partially be an extention of the existing military airbase, as well as to serve the massive new government center soon to be located at Chaeng Wattana.  it might also serve as a cheaper alternative for regional budget airlines that do more point-to-point business and who may want to pay less landing fees and other charges, although i'm sure the AOT would object if they had their way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reason for cargo and passenger co-location is logistically very simple - many passenger aircraft also carry priority frieght which in many cases has to be cross docked to pure freighters for onward transmission.

[chanchao]

Yup, freight often goes on the same planes as passengers.. (not talking about passenger luggage here of course). For domestic air freight there even are no freight-only aircraft; it all goes on regular TG flights.

> But i'm told they are already constructing an express train that will

> go direct from Makkasan to Suvarnabhumi in about 17 minutes

Hm... [Checking map of Bangkok... noting where Makkasan is...] : Makkasan is in the center of town near Din Daeng / Sukhumvit / Ploenchit and all... If a rapid rail link would make it there then surely it couldn't go over the existing track which crosses some of Bangkok's busiest roads.. You can't have a frequent airport train crossing those every 20-30 minutes.

So... if a train would go to Makkasan then pretty big construction would have to be obvious by now, i.e. serious elevated tracks and all that.. Anyone seen anything like that? (Me neither..)

To me, a fast connection to the Bangkok SRT/MRT systems would seem an essential prerequisite to any airport being at a remote satellite location to a major metropolis, but... they declined to ask me for my opinion.

[bkk_mike]

Yup, freight often goes on the same planes as passengers..  (not talking about passenger luggage here of course).  For domestic air freight there even are no freight-only aircraft; it all goes on regular TG flights.

> But i'm told they are already constructing an express train that will

> go direct from Makkasan to Suvarnabhumi in about 17 minutes

Hm... [Checking map of Bangkok... noting where Makkasan is...] : Makkasan is in the center of town near Din Daeng / Sukhumvit / Ploenchit and all...  If a rapid rail link would make it there then surely it couldn't go over the existing track which crosses some of Bangkok's busiest roads.. You can't have a frequent airport train crossing those every 20-30 minutes.

So... if a train would go to Makkasan then pretty big construction would have to be obvious by now, i.e. serious elevated tracks and all that..  Anyone seen anything like that?  (Me neither..) 

To me, a fast connection to the Bangkok SRT/MRT systems would seem an essential prerequisite to any airport being at a remote satellite location to a major metropolis, but...  they declined to ask me for my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they're working on it - look at 2bangkok.com - but I don't think anybody believes it was ever planned to be open when the airport opens. Although with the airport being delayed repeatedly, if the train is on time, it might happen...

[thedude]

Chanchao, i attended a seminar recently on transport strategies where many high level govt officials presented their respective future plans etc. i am sure they could use your advise but my opinion is not that there is insufficient expertise at the govt level (i discovered many brilliant technocrats in fact - MIT/Imperial College types) but the political resolve and inter-ministry co-ordination seems to have been the main problems in getting things moving.

many are optimistic that the present administration is at least able to sort out the political resolve part of it because (as of February) we now have a single party govt and so no opposing coalition interests to worry about. there are lots of armchair activists in this forum who keep whining about the threat of authoritarianism, but they also fail to see that there is a positive side too, but i digress...

Anyway, Makkasan is actually the site of the existing railway depot located just north of the city between Petchburi Road and Rama IX. There is also a massive parcel of empty land surrounding the site, all of which is owned by the SRT, under the Ministry of Transport.

My understanding is that in order to "fast track" construction and avoid the lengthy process of budget allocation, negotiation etc, the express train portion was simply given to B. Grimm Co. Ltd (a very ancient and venerable Thai corporation with possible aristocratic ties) who will privately fund the project, get it up in 2 to 3 years (unfortunately not in time for the main airport launch), whereupon the whole line will be transferred back to the govt for a sum, plus a 30 year operational contract. Effectively a Build-Transfer-Operate arrangement. I think B. Grimm's involvement is only for the non-stop express line part of the project and not the separate MRT line i mentioned. The express line will be a high speed train capable of 160 kmh and using the European standard gauge of 1 m i think. It will likely run adjacent to the existing east-west rail line that passes through the city.

[Humphrey Bear]

This thread seems to be a continuation from this

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...arnabhumi&st=45

and has many of the questions posed here and the answers.

[Humphrey Bear]

Chanchao, i attended a seminar recently on transport strategies where many high level govt officials presented their respective future plans etc.  i am sure they could use your advise but my opinion is not that there is insufficient expertise at the govt level (i discovered many brilliant technocrats in fact - MIT/Imperial College types) but the political resolve and inter-ministry co-ordination seems to have been the main problems in getting things moving. 

many are optimistic that the present administration is at least able to sort out the political resolve part of it because (as of February) we now have a single party govt and so no opposing coalition interests to worry about.  there are lots of armchair activists in this forum who keep whining about the threat of authoritarianism, but they also fail to see that there is a positive side too, but i digress...

Anyway, Makkasan is actually the site of the existing railway depot located just north of the city between Petchburi Road and Rama IX.  There is also a massive parcel of empty land surrounding the site, all of which is owned by the SRT, under the Ministry of Transport. 

My understanding is that in order to "fast track" construction and avoid the lengthy process of budget allocation, negotiation etc, the express train portion was simply given to B. Grimm Co. Ltd (a very ancient and venerable Thai corporation with possible aristocratic ties) who will privately fund the project, get it up in 2 to 3 years (unfortunately not in time for the main airport launch), whereupon the whole line will be transferred back to the govt for a sum, plus a 30 year operational contract.  Effectively a Build-Transfer-Operate arrangement.  I think B. Grimm's involvement is only for the non-stop express line part of the project and not the separate MRT line i mentioned.  The express line will be a high speed train capable of 160 kmh and using the European standard gauge of 1 m i think.  It will likely run adjacent to the existing east-west rail line that passes through the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apart from European Standard Guage being 1435mm - not 1m - I agree with most of what you say.

But all the separate inter-departmental rivalry that screws up so much of Thai government will still mean that road / surface rail / underground rail / above-ground rail / express rail / light rail / raised highways will all be competing for much the same pieces of land to put their 'authorised' hardware through, on, above or under. There is no overall co-ordinator - no overall plan that I know of. Just a lot of petty little departments, full of petty little beaurocrats trying to make sure that they are not left behind.