Bangkok Bank

[rucus7]

Do any members use Bangkok Bank to transfer funds from America to Thailand? Details will be very much appreciated.

[flying]

Do any members use Bangkok Bank to transfer funds from America to Thailand? Details will be very much appreciated.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/...from%20USA.aspx

[rogercw]

I do. Each month I deposit a personal check in my account. They always tell me there will be a 45 day hold on the check before it is credited to my account but it is actually a 21 day hold. If I deposit on the first of the month the check will show up in my American checking account in about 4 days. The value of the check in baht will be credited to my Bangkok Bank account the 22nd or 23rd of the month.

[ianguygil]

Depositing a US check (cheque) into an account is totally different than transferring funds in. While it may appear to be the same thing to some, technically it is totally different as you are dealing with an item which needs to be presented to the issuing bank, then funds need to be cleared.

If you follow the link as previously provided for a funds transfer using the ACH network in the US, the funds will be available next day at the latest (if done properly). Importantly, the costs will be much less than a normal SWIFT transfer. As Bangkok Bank has a branch in New York they are able to offer this facility. Other Thai banks do not have a US presence.

[flying]

If you follow the link as previously provided for a funds transfer using the ACH network in the US, the funds will be available next day at the latest (if done properly). Importantly, the costs will be much less than a normal SWIFT transfer. As Bangkok Bank has a branch in New York they are able to offer this facility. Other Thai banks do not have a US presence.

Yup

Also as you said

Half price in most cases usually 20 vs 40/50

[luangtom]

If you follow the link as previously provided for a funds transfer using the ACH network in the US, the funds will be available next day at the latest (if done properly). Importantly, the costs will be much less than a normal SWIFT transfer. As Bangkok Bank has a branch in New York they are able to offer this facility. Other Thai banks do not have a US presence.

Yup

Also as you said

Half price in most cases usually 20 vs 40/50

'Tis true for all of our transfers. SWIFT works, but ACH is cheaper when using Bangkok Bank and its New York branch for transfers. It has been showing funds in the account within 48-hours on most occasions. Have not experienced any glitches so far.....

[lopburi3]

Nonsense post removed.

For normal SWIFT transfer the BBL SWIFT code is BKKBTHBK. Also required is your complete local branch address/account number/name.

Transfer from US at OOB there time (11 PM Bangkok) is in my BBL account by noon.

[nakachalet]

ACH is fast and efficient transferring usd into even different named acct in thailand.

the six figure transfer arrived on schedule into thai acct receipient up north without any hitch.

great service and at a reasonable fee.

[rucus7]

Thanks for all the replies. I should expand on my original post. Currently I have automatic deposit for my California Public employees Retirement into a California credit union. It is a monthly electronic funds transfer. I access my money via ATM's in Thailand. I assume from the replies that I can do the same, if I open an account with Bangkok Bank in New York. Is there a fee to transfer or access the money in Thailand?

[lopburi3]

You can not open an account with BBL office in New York.

[ianguygil]

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/...ct_Deposit.aspx

Advice to Receiver using Direct Deposit Service If you are currently receiving payments such as pensions, annuities or payroll from US government agencies or private organizations, you can arrange for your payments to be directly deposited into your account at Bangkok Bank in Thailand via Bangkok Bank's New York branch instead of receiving United States Treasury or company issued cheques.

Benefits of the service

• You no longer need to visit the bank branch to cash or send your US Treasury or company issued cheques for collection.
  
• It eliminates the risk of losing cheques.
  
• You can receive funds faster.
  
• Your funds will be converted to Thai Baht using the rate receiving electronic funds transfers (Buying TT rate) which is better than the rate for buying foreign cheques (Buying sight bill rate).
  

How to apply for the Direct Deposit Service if you are receiving payments from a US government agency:

1. Download the 'Direct Deposit Sign-up Form (SF1199A)' from the website <A title="" href="http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online" target=_blank>www.socialsecurity.gov/online. Complete the form to sign up for Direct Deposit with your relevant US government agency.
   
2. Open a savings account at any Bangkok Bank branch (except micro branches). If you already have an account with Bangkok Bank, you can use your existing bank account for this service. Complete a 'Direct Deposit Service Application' form.
   
3. Submit all forms to Bangkok Bank with the following supporting documents:
   - Identification Card/Government Official ID Card/Passport together with a customer
   identification document such as your Social Security Card, Annuitant ID Card etc.
   - A document from the relevant agency giving evidence of your right to receive the
   payments.
   
4. After verifying your documents, Bangkok Bank will submit your application to the government agency asking them to approve your request for receiving the funds via Direct Deposit.
   
5. After the request to receive Direct Deposit is approved by the government agency, your payments will be electronically deposited directly to your Bangkok Bank account.
   

Important Note

If you use a direct deposit service to receive funds from a US Government Agency, you must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds.

In compliance with US regulations, Bangkok Bank cannot authorize the withdrawal of funds from your direct deposit account by an appointed representative, or via ATM or any other electronic channel. You must appear in person at a Bangkok Bank branch to withdraw the funds. You can, however, open a normal savings or current account and transfer the funds from your direct deposit account to this account. You may then withdraw your funds as usual via ATM or any other electronic channel.

You may directly contact the United States government agencies in the US to send funds into your savings account with Bangkok Bank,. However, we still need to request that you change your savings account to a Direct Deposit account. Failure to comply will result in Bangkok Bank not being able to deposit funds transferred from the US government agencies into your account.

How to apply for the Direct Deposit Service if you are receiving payments from private organizations:

1. Request the 'Authorization Agreement for Automatic Deposits (ACH Credits)' form or Direct Deposit form from the private organization that you are receiving payments from. Complete the form to request the Direct Deposit service.
   
2. Open a savings account at any branch of Bangkok Bank in Thailand. If you already have an account with Bangkok Bank, you can use your existing bank account for this service.
   
3. Submit the form with the required information for account opening and the following supporting documents:
   - Identity Card/Government Official ID Card/Passport together with a customer
   identification document such as your Social Security Card, Annuitant ID Card etc.
   - A letter from the organizations authorized to make payments, as evidence of your right
   to receive the payments from the company.
   
4. After verifying your documents, Bangkok Bank will sign your 'Authorization Agreement for Automatic Deposit form (ACH Credits)' or Direct Deposit form and return the original form for you to mail to the US company asking them to approve the request and initiate direct deposits into your account.
   
5. After the request to receive direct deposits is approved, your payments will be electronically deposited directly to your Bangkok Bank account.
   (If you are a Bangkok Bank customer residing in the US you can submit your application form and supporting documents to Bangkok Bank's New York branch: 29 Broadway, 20th Fl, New York, New York 10006 United States, Tel: (1-212) 422-8200
   

[aurelius]

The answer to your question is on the original link above; more details are given the following link

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/...ct_Deposit.aspx

You can instruct the US govt to send your benefit here. Its cheap and efficient. But, you have to front up in person to move the funds from your receiving a/c in Thailand to another account which will have your ATM card, internet banking etc attached to it. This is because the US govt insists that the Thai bank has to make sure you're still alive to receive your benefit, not some 3rd party perpetually claiming it on your behalf. I.e. the bank will only allow you to withdraw from this account at a branch counter; however if you then transfer all that into a second a/c, then you can operate quite normally without additional hassle.our a.

Set an incoming remittance alert on your a/c - get an SMS everytime funds are received, so you don't have to bother with checking and wasting time.

[JimGant]

Currently I have automatic deposit for my California Public employees Retirement into a California credit union. It is a monthly electronic funds transfer.

You could substitute your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand for your credit union account. It would still be an ACH transfer from CALPERS, but now using the ABA number of Bangkok Bank New York (BBNY), vice the ABA number of your credit union. BBNY would subtract their fee (e.g., $5 for amounts between $100.01 and $2,000) from the amount sent; and BB in Thailand would add their .25% charge to the received amount. Exchange would be dollars converted in Thailand, at the prevailing TT rate. And as CALPERS is not "US Govt," the restriction on having to pick up the money in person should not apply.

As most financial institutions in the US now allow Internet ACH transfers to any ABA, just a few keystrokes could accomplish the same thing as having CALPERS send it directly to BBNY (the BB fees would be the same). Keeping your credit union in the loop might have advantages, including your regulating the frequency of the exchanges (the extra interest you'd earn, at today's rates, probably isn't one of them).

ACH transfers take, on average, 2 business days to reach Thailand (vice one day for SWIFT). Some financial institutions, like Bank of America, use a middleman for their ACH transfers, adding some additional time -- and a few dollars -- for an ACH to Thailand. Others require you use their "bill pay" service to implement an ACH transfer, which could add a few dollars. And some even prohibit an ACH that results in money crossing the border (however, since BBNY has a domestic ABA, not exactly sure how they could prevent this.....).

Check with your credit union on the mechanics of setting up an ACH transfer. If possible, set the transfer mechanics up as a "push only" operation. This will eliminate some potential burps if you have to set up the operation as two-way, since a "pull' operation from Thailand is not allowed. This was mainly a problem of a few years back, and today most financial institutions, after a test transfer with BB, will now automatically default to "push" only. Nevertheless, I'm sure some burps could still lurk.

[jfchandler]

Currently I have automatic deposit for my California Public employees Retirement into a California credit union. It is a monthly electronic funds transfer.

ACH transfers take, on average, 2 business days to reach Thailand (vice one day for SWIFT). Some financial institutions, like Bank of America, use a middleman for their ACH transfers, adding some additional time -- and a few dollars -- for an ACH to Thailand. Others require you use their "bill pay" service to implement an ACH transfer, which could add a few dollars. And some even prohibit an ACH that results in money crossing the border (however, since BBNY has a domestic ABA, not exactly sure how they could prevent this.....).

I'm in exactly the same position as the OP... And perhaps, some of you already know what I'm going to say...

While the ACH method with BKK Bank works fine in most cases, and is reasonably economical, there is a faster and cheaper way...

Have your CalPERS or similar monthly payment deposited into a good U.S. bank account like Charles Schwab, Capital One or others that don't charge any foreign currency transaction fees. Then, as soon as your funds hit your U.S. account, they're available here via your ATM card at a better net rate than BKK Bank is going to give you for international ACH/wire transfers... No two-day delay. No trudging down to BKK Bank every month, in case it's a U.S. government payment... No BKK Bank New York handling fee. No exchange rate charge from BKK Bank in Thailand...

Then, withdraw the funds with your U.S. ATM card using an AEON ATM, and you've done the entire process without any fees whatsoever...

If you can't use an AEON ATM or it's not convenient, then you'd be paying close to $5 (the 150 baht Thai banks' withdrawal fee for foreign cards) per ATM withdrawal to use the regular Thai banks' ATMs, which you'd only have to do once or twice at most to access your monthly payment, since Thai bank ATMs usually will dispense 25,000 baht or so per transaction. Of course, there also are U.S. accounts like Schwab that also reimburse you for the Thai banks 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees, so long as you don't abuse their system.

There's a fuller discussion of these kinds of issues in this other Thai Visa thread on banking....

The important factor is to choose the right U.S. bank account in order to avoid foreign currency exchange fees.

[Suradit]

You can not open an account with BBL office in New York.

You don't need to open an account at the branch in NY. It is a branch of Bangkok Bank.

If you have an account with Bangkok Bank in Thailand, you direct your US bank (or broker in my case) to transfer money to the Bangkok Bank branch in NY, using your Thai Bangkok Bank account number. Not much different from having a Bangkok Bank account in Pattaya and making a deposit at a branch in Chiang Mai.

I do it four or more times a year. As someone else said, the deposit is credited to my Pattaya account within 48 hours and I signed up for mobile phone alerts, so I receive an SMS from Bangkok bank showing the amount deposited in dollars, the amount credited to my Pattaya account in Baht, the amount of the transfer fee and the exchange rate used. Never been a hitch in all the years I've been doing it.

[ianguygil]

Exactly, the funds are in a holding account between your US Bangkok and Bangkok Bank in New York. There is no need for the customer to open an account with us in New York, and as I have stated our consumer accounts in New York are not FDIC insured.

So paying from your US bank to us via ACH, the getting access to the funds via our thousands of ATMs in Thailand is a very convenient option. I see many people here have strong opnions that they have found a more cost effective way, and the amount of the actual savings clearly depends on the frequency and amount of the transfers. And the value placed on the time taken to go to one of these ATMs which are not part of the ATM Pool in Thailand.

I do agree that finding a US bank which will refund the costs of the local Thai ATM charges for ATMs in the ATM Pool is a reasonable way of cutting your costs. I also use SCHWAB in the US, and they have definitely always provided me with excellent service there, but I have never used their ATM card here in Thailand, even though I live here.

Please PM me if you have any specific questions about your transactions at Bangkok Bank and I will get somebody from our contact center to help you out.

Good luck,.

[jfchandler]

Ian, Schwab's ATM/debit cards from the U.S. are VISA logo and part of the PLUS network. So they should work fine in any of the regular Thai bank ATMs (which all charge the 150 baht foreign card withdrawal fee) or the AEON ATMs (which are fee-free). Schwab is one of a few major banks in the U.S. that refund foreign ATM fees incurred by their card holders.

I think it's great that BKK Bank has the facility to handle international (U.S.-Thailand) transfers thru it's New York branch, particularly in a relatively convenient way. But the question of when to use that approach vs. when to use a U.S. ATM card here really is pretty simple most of the time.

If the person needs to move large amounts (say more than 50,000 baht) in a single transaction, then the ACH thru BKK Bank probably is going to be best in terms of cost effectiveness and convenience. But if someone wants to pull smaller amounts on a periodic, more frequent basis, then a no-fee U.S. debit card combined with AEON ATMs is going to be more economical.

Of course, not everyone lives or travels close to AEON ATMs, which are more sparse than those of Thai banks. And not everyone has U.S. accounts that provide fee-free ATM use on the U.S. end. A lot of the major U.S. banks like BofA and Chase charge extortionate foreign currency exchange fees of up to 3%. So if someone's holding one of their cards, you definitely don't want to use those in Thailand under any circumstance....

Meanwhile, it's pretty unfortunate that the Thai Bankers Association decided to use their monopoly to overnight impose one of the highest banking fees of its kind, if not the highest, in the world. The 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee charged to pretty much all foreign cards is now approaching $5 per transaction, regardless of whether the person is withdrawing 200 baht, 1000 baht, 5000 baht or more. A Thai person using a Thai VISA/MC logo card at a U.S. bank would draw at most a $3 per transaction fee. I'd like to hear some explanation of how that makes any kind of sense...

I've repeatedly issued a challenge here for anyone to point to another country anywhere in the world where the cost of using a foreign bank card is higher than here in Thailand. So far, no one's been able to point to a higher fee anywhere else... That's saying something....

[NovaBlue05]

Did my 1st transfer last week from my USAA Savings to the Bangkok Bank branch in NongBualamphu via ACH transfer using the BKK Bank NY branch. Had to do the initial setup of the Thai account with USAA first and it took about 3 days to get it validated.

For $3000 USD, I was charged $10 by the NY branch + $7.5 by the local Thai branch for $17.50 total. I believe the $10 NY branch fee is good for up to $50K so pays to do larger transfers. USAA did not charge any fees.

It took about 48 hours from the time I submitted the transfer until it showed up at the local Thai branch on their iBankin website.

[ianguygil]

Without getting too far in to the question of fees, Thai banks tend to not impose minimum account balance fees as exist in the USA, UK and many other countries (I worked both for US and UK banks before). Access to ATMs are also free for Thai card holders (even foreigners) and you can even use another bank's ATMs 3 times a month for free as long as the are part of the ATM Pool. So you need to look at the big picture for bank charges. Although I understand that the focus here has been on the charge for the non-Thai ATM cards.

I think the important thing here is for everybody to have the information of the options available to them, and to make their decisions based on their specific situation, how much money they move and how often. Where they live. I do warn people about using relatively unknown intermediaries to move funds (I see people talk about some FX shops I have never heard of). Please all remember that if you give somebody your money and you don't know who they are, it is possible it will never arrive on the other end.

Good luck.

[JimGant]

I believe the $10 NY branch fee is good for up to $50K so pays to do larger transfers.

And, on the Thai end, their fee becomes a fixed 500 baht at around $6450 (31/1 exchange rate). So, sending $3000 costs .58% off the TT rate, while sending $10000 costs only .26% off the TT rate.

However, this all becomes moot if you guess wrong on the direction of foreign exchange. I bet if I send a large sum today to Thailand, this will guarantee the dollar turns up....

[jfchandler]

Many of the BIG, MAJOR U.S. banks do have various kinds of minimum account balance requirements...

But, among the better accounts from the U.S. we've been discussing here (better meaning no foreign currency fees), the Schwab and Capital One accounts have absolutely no minimum balance requirements, so really their customers are getting the best of both worlds...

And needless to say, I use a bunch of other U.S. accounts and none of them have minimum balance fees... Most are rewards checking accounts, that also are paying 3 - 4 percent APY interest rates on your balances, provided you use the associated debit card for 10 or so purchases per month.

It's too bad none of the Thai banks are offering interest rates anywhere close to those amounts, nor have the Thai banks even begun to recognize the notion of rewards checking accounts. That's what happens when you have a closed, monopolistic banking system as exists here, along with such customer friendly features as charging you 150 baht every time you make an ATM withdrawal with your foreign card.

Without getting too far in to the question of fees, Thai banks tend to not impose minimum account balance fees as exist in the USA, UK and many other countries (I worked both for US and UK banks before).

[ianguygil]

The system here is designed to ensure that there is not a major unbanked population. Given that this is a developing country, it is essential that the banking system is inclusive. So all the major Thai banks tend to have large numbers of accounts with low balances so the needs of the vast majority of the population are met for cheap, convenient and cost effective banking. Actually, the amount of foreign ownership in banks here is far higher than in the USA. Also, the unbanked population in the USA is huge and is growing as many people are pushed out of the formal banking system and have to rely on check cashing services which take huge fees from people who are already poor.

Anyway, my point here is not to debate but just to answer any specific questions.

[jfchandler]

OK...with all due respect, I have some questions....

What is the justification for Thai banks here charging foreign debit card users 150 baht for every ATM withdrawal, when the comparable fee for a Thai in the U.S. from the "big bad banks" wouldn't be more than 100 baht ($3) at most...

And, why is it that every single Thai bank adopted exactly the same fee at the same time?

And, what information has ever been made public by the Thai banks that shows any correlation between the amount of the fee they are charging, and the cost-plus reasonable margin of profit for providing the actual service involved?

Anyway, my point here is not to debate but just to answer any specific questions.

[ianguygil]

As I said I am not going to debate the fees. And to be honest I do not have any information as to how the 150 Baht fee decisions were made. If you have concerns you should probably contact your bank or Thai regulators who could answer your questions. It makes no sense for me to provide my opinion. But continually comparing it to the US, which is a different market, and runs under a different set of regulations, is not really valid.

So as I said, I will answer specific questions about our service. And I will help to resolve any problems for customers using our service.

[jfchandler]

Ian, thanks for the reply... Of course, there is no answer you could provide, because there is no reasonable answer to give.

The ATM fee went from 0 to 150 baht overnight, was set arbitrarily. And when some Thai banking reps tried to blame the card networks like MC for having raised their fees, the MC network publicly refuted that claim in the BKK Post.

And, I wasn't and haven't just been drawing comparisons with the U.S., though that's certainly the market I know best. More broadly, I don't know of any country in the world that charges what now is almost $5 per transaction for ATM transactions involving out-of-network debit cards.

If the banking market here was open, then different Thai banks would compete with each other and there would be a variety of fees in the marketplace...; But in the case of the ATM fee, it was pure anti-trust behavior...collusion and price fixing....

[JimGant]

any correlation between the amount of the fee they are charging, and the cost-plus reasonable margin of profit for providing the actual service involved?

Looking at the most expensive ATM card on the Flyerguide site, I find BB&T charging 3% plus $5 per transaction (Chase is close behind at 3%/$3). So, at a 31/1 exchange rate, and pulling out my standard 25000 baht (and being charged for 25150 baht), I will pay $8.11 to the Visa network, and $21.23 to BB&T. But only $4.84 to Bangkok Bank for the use of its ATM machine.

Way to much -- all around -- for the value of the service being received. And, yes, you can rid yourself of all three fees by shopping around for the best card option.

But I wonder how many folks complaining about the $4.84 ATM fee are paying $29.34 on the other end? Probably not too many who read this forum. But I bet there's a bunch of others out there who fit the bill.

And while there may be some whining amongst the tourists, it's doubtful anyone's stayed home because of this fee -- and are using the ATM machines as they always have. One or two 150 bt fees on their annual vacation certainly would not be a deterrent. Score one for the banks.

And for the expats, who lived hand-to-ATM? Some, no doubt, have now opened accounts with a Thai bank - allowing them to use their money for virtually no cost. Score two for the banks.

No, I don't begrudge the banks. They took advantage of Thai law to collude on a cash cow. I just wonder how they even broke even on many of these machines before the 150bt fee -- particularly those in the malls and airports -- where, certainly, there was no monopoly on floor space, as every bank seemed to be represented....

[ianguygil]

So this is my absolute last post on this subject, as I do this in between meetings and other work here.

Bank charges in Thailand are highly regulated, much more so that in most western countries (US, UK etc.). So you will often find almost no difference in charges between banks (that is not true for interest rates except for the maximum interest rate). As a reaction to the financial crisis in the West I know that they are also regulating charges and conditions more closely.

Anti trust and price fixing is a concept which is applied differently around the world, and even in the US there are major exemptions.

I have no idea how this charge was first implemented and how quickly each bank adopted it. But just because most major banks did the same thing did not mean it was pre arranged. It could be just follow the leader.

And as Jim said, the number of ATMs in Thailand is just breathtaking compared to most countries, developed or developing. I met with some World Bank consultants about Mobile Commerce around the start of the year and their first comments to me were how amazed they were with the number of ATMs and how modern they are. These clearly benefit the Thai public as a whole, it is more convenient for them and they do not have to go far to get access to direct banking services. And as I said the ATM Pool (which is cooperation, not anti-trust) allows Thai card holders to use another banks ATM on the ATM Pool up to 3 times a month with no charge.

Signing off now Not sure if my next meeting will me more fun though

[JimGant]

And when some Thai banking reps tried to blame the card networks like MC for having raised their fees, the MC network publicly refuted that claim in the BKK Post.

JFC, the following quote is from HERE. I'm not sure its applicability to Thai banks -- it specifically refers to "non-bank ATM owners" in, I guess, the US. How the networks, in particular MC, treat "bank" and "non-bank" ATM owners differently is a question I'd love to see answered. And, are foreign bank ATM owners maybe treated like "non-bank" ATM owners? Hmmmm. Maybe the Thai banking reps had a valid gripe against, at least, MC........

Mastercard raises fees for ATM owners

With little warning and no consultation, Mastercard has changed the ATM fee structure for Mastercard-branded cards, as well as its Cirrus card network.

The changes are complicated, but they break down into two basic categories:

1. Mastercard pays an “interchange fee” on every ATM withdrawal involving its Mastercard/Cirrus networks. As of April 1, MasterCard cut those payments by 30 percent.

2. Mastercard charges a fee for any transaction involving its Mastercard and Cirrus networks. As of April 16, 2010 Mastercard more than tripled that fee.

Added together, Mastercard is cutting its per-transaction payment by more than 62 percent on most transactions — dealing serious harm to every nonbank company that deploys ATMs. Overall, the move is expected to cost the nonbank ATM industry up to $26 million a year...

...We recommend raising your surcharge to cover the Mastercard/Cirrus pass-through.

[jfchandler]

Jim, I don't know if your comments below were meant in any way to respond to my comment that, no one around these parts has yet been able to point to another country where the banks charge a higher, COMPARABLE fee than the Thai 150 baht withdrawal fee on foreign ATM card use.

The U.S. bank fees you quote below are what those banks CHARGE their own home country citizens when they use ATM machines in other countries. That's sort of apples and oranges to the issue of what Thai banks charge non-Thai citizens when those non-citizens use their home country cards in Thai ATMs. The comparable comparison instead would be, how much are Thai citizens (or those from other countries charged when they try to use their home country cards in the U.S., UK or other foreign countries by the banks in those countries.

I can only speak to the U.S. banks in that regard. To the best of my knowledge, the U.S. banks do not have any special fee for foreign citizens when they try to use their home country cards in U.S. ATMs. The U.S. banks pretty much do free ATM use if you're using a card that belongs to that bank, or charge a set fee (usually not more than $3) if the person is using a card from some other bank, whether it be a different U.S. bank or one from another country. That's the comparable comparison to the Thai banks' 150 baht ATM fee, and the Thai fee is much higher by comparison.

That said, the foreign currency transaction charges applied by some U.S. banks against their own card holders are just as much a ripoff and over-priced as the 150 baht scheme adopted by the Thai banks. The one difference, though, is the U.S. banks operate somewhat independently from each other with competition, and as the chart you cited shows, there's at least a range of fees among different banks in the marketplace. Here in Thailand, the 150 baht scheme was adopted unilaterally and across the board nationwide for every Thai bank without exception by the Thai Bankers Association....

any correlation between the amount of the fee they are charging, and the cost-plus reasonable margin of profit for providing the actual service involved?

Looking at the most expensive ATM card on the Flyerguide site, I find BB&T charging 3% plus $5 per transaction (Chase is close behind at 3%/$3). So, at a 31/1 exchange rate, and pulling out my standard 25000 baht (and being charged for 25150 baht), I will pay $8.11 to the Visa network, and $21.23 to BB&T. But only $4.84 to Bangkok Bank for the use of its ATM machine.

Way to much -- all around -- for the value of the service being received. And, yes, you can rid yourself of all three fees by shopping around for the best card option.

But I wonder how many folks complaining about the $4.84 ATM fee are paying $29.34 on the other end? Probably not too many who read this forum. But I bet there's a bunch of others out there who fit the bill.

[jfchandler]

Jim, the report you cite below is not the one I was referring to above... The one I was referring to above was an article in the BKK Post shortly after the 150 baht scheme was adopted. In that article, some Thai banking rep claimed they had launched the fee because the card networks had raised their fees... And then the article went on to quote a MC spokesman as saying they had not anytime recently raised their fees associated with international ATM transactions... It was all directly related to BANKS, not "non-bank" ATM operators, whatever those may be....

And when some Thai banking reps tried to blame the card networks like MC for having raised their fees, the MC network publicly refuted that claim in the BKK Post.

JFC, the following quote is from HERE. I'm not sure its applicability to Thai banks -- it specifically refers to "non-bank ATM owners" in, I guess, the US. How the networks, in particular MC, treat "bank" and "non-bank" ATM owners differently is a question I'd love to see answered. And, are foreign bank ATM owners maybe treated like "non-bank" ATM owners? Hmmmm. Maybe the Thai banking reps had a valid gripe against, at least, MC........

Mastercard raises fees for ATM owners

With little warning and no consultation, Mastercard has changed the ATM fee structure for Mastercard-branded cards, as well as its Cirrus card network.

The changes are complicated, but they break down into two basic categories:

1. Mastercard pays an "interchange fee" on every ATM withdrawal involving its Mastercard/Cirrus networks. As of April 1, MasterCard cut those payments by 30 percent.

2. Mastercard charges a fee for any transaction involving its Mastercard and Cirrus networks. As of April 16, 2010 Mastercard more than tripled that fee.

Added together, Mastercard is cutting its per-transaction payment by more than 62 percent on most transactions — dealing serious harm to every nonbank company that deploys ATMs. Overall, the move is expected to cost the nonbank ATM industry up to $26 million a year...

...We recommend raising your surcharge to cover the Mastercard/Cirrus pass-through.