Expat Bashing From Your Home Country?

[Jingthing]

Watching Fox "News" tv my blood came to a boil watching the Mike Huckabee show in which the ex-governor and future republican party US presidential hopeful let loose an expat bashing tirade.

It made me think that there is a long tradition in US politics for the right wing to demonize people who leave America as the most heinous kind of unpatriotic types. For example, the old canard, Love it or Leave it.

Now I realize many people leave their countries for negative reasons (they really hate their countries for whatever reasons) but in my view most of us leave our countries for POSITIVE reasons (because we have really good reasons to go the country we are moving to). Leaving doesn't usually mean we are more or less patriotic than our less adventurous brothers who stay home and it doesn't always mean we won't be back someday.

So my intention here is for expats from different countries to discuss whether there are political factions in their home countries which bash expats, or not. I really don't know or have any preconceived notions about it.

As a background to the Huckabee rant, he was reporting on a news story where a gym owner had a big US flag displayed in the gym. Some customers complained that they were offended by looking to the flag while working out. The owner refused to take down the flag and instead suggested the complaining customers go away. From this small story, Huckabee went into a virilunt rant about how anyone who is offended by displays of the American flag should go buy a ONE WAY ticket out of America, and the America would be much better off without them. He also mused that some of the stimulus money should be spent to send away such people, again on ONE WAY tickets. You get the drift here, the strong implication is that the many people who have actually left America on ONE WAY tickets are horribly unpatriotic and that anyone who has left the US (except of course SOLDIERS) hate the American flag. A politician like Huckabee uses this kind of rhetoric to whip up nationalism and hatred of the foreign.

So, does this kind of thing happen in your home countries, or is the USA a little special this way?

Edited November 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[Moonrakers]

What, no poll?

[Jingthing]

What, no poll?

I don't feel this subject lends itself well to a poll.

[walt]

Watching Fox "News" tv my blood came to a boil watching the Mike Huckabee show ...

Jingthing,

Your interpretation of Huckabee’s “rant” doesn’t make good sense. His opinion of people who feel offended by the mere presence of the American flag doesn’t say anything at all about American expats, much less about any of the reasons many people choose to live abroad. Your description of his words doesn’t even come close to bashing expats.

It seems to me that your being upset about what Huckabee may have said shows more about you and your own biases than anything about Huckabee, Fox News, or the right wing demonizing anyone.

Walt

[Tim207]

I think you are reading something into what he was saying that was not there. I thought the implication was clear that he felt that if someone is offended by the display of the symbol of America then they must not like the country that it symbolizes. His point was if you don't like America then you should go be citizen of a country you do like and can be proud of.

It had nothing to do with expats in general other than the fact that those that he thinks should leave the country if they don't like what it stands for would then obviously be considered expats along with all those other expats that don't dislike their country.

Why do you watch Fox, just to find something you can be upset about? Seems like you a are stretching a bit on this one.

[sassienie]

And what would be said of Farangs or Thai people if they complained about the Thai flag?

Would probably be arrested on charges of defamination and jailed for 25 years.

[Jingthing]

Watching Fox "News" tv my blood came to a boil watching the Mike Huckabee show ...

Jingthing,

Your interpretation of Huckabee’s “rant” doesn’t make good sense. His opinion of people who feel offended by the mere presence of the American flag doesn’t say anything at all about American expats, much less about any of the reasons many people choose to live abroad. Your description of his words doesn’t even come close to bashing expats.

It seems to me that your being upset about what Huckabee may have said shows more about you and your own biases than anything about Huckabee, Fox News, or the right wing demonizing anyone.

Walt

I disagree. You are not getting the point. To demagogues like Huckabee, forcing someone to leave America is the worst thing you could do to a person, so the message about those who leave voluntarily is implied. His fans eat it up:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=F...ear=&Month=

I do mean FORCE. The people who for whatever reason did not want to look at a big old flag while working out were NOT expressing a desire for a ONE WAY ticket out of Dodge. That was Huckabee's idea, to put them on a plane out. Rationally speaking, is it really necessary for there to be a nation's flag everywhere in the country? Yes I know Thailand is a great example of a country on flag waving steroids, but isn't flag waving nationalism all the time everywhere kind of over the top?

Again my question in this thread is not about the long American "redneck" tradition of Love it or leave it represented today by Huckabee, but whether this kind of knee jerk nationalism is common in other western countries that are the source of the expats here reading this board. I already know the situation in the USA, I am asking about the other western countries.

BTW, flag waving does not equal patriotism or loving one's home country. Hopefully, it is much deeper than that.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

Watching Fox "News" tv my blood came to a boil watching the Mike Huckabee show ...

Jingthing,

Your interpretation of Huckabee’s “rant” doesn’t make good sense. His opinion of people who feel offended by the mere presence of the American flag doesn’t say anything at all about American expats, much less about any of the reasons many people choose to live abroad. Your description of his words doesn’t even come close to bashing expats.

It seems to me that your being upset about what Huckabee may have said shows more about you and your own biases than anything about Huckabee, Fox News, or the right wing demonizing anyone.

Walt

I disagree. You are not getting the point. To demagogues like Huckabee, forcing someone to leave America is the worst thing you could do to a person, so the message about those who leave voluntarily is implied. His fans eat it up:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=F...ear=&Month=

I do mean FORCE. The people who for whatever reason did not want to look at a big old flag while working out were NOT expressing a desire for a ONE WAY ticket out of Dodge. That was Huckabee's idea, to put them on a plane out. Rationally speaking, is it really necessary for there to be a nation's flag everywhere in the country? Yes I know Thailand is a great example of a country on flag waving steroids, but isn't flag waving nationalism all the time everywhere kind of over the top?

Again my question in this thread is not about the long American "redneck" tradition of Love it or leave it represented today by Huckabee, but whether this kind of knee jerk nationalism is common in other western countries that are the source of the expats here reading this board. I already know the situation in the USA, I am asking about the other western countries.

I suspect most brits could not care less really.

There is no national patriotism unless related to sport and even then its half hearted imo.

Edited November 2, 2009 by smokie36

[Tim207]

Here is a link to this Jing bashing. If you slow it down you can actually hear him say "JingThing is a commie" "JingThing is a commie".

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?pl...listId=playlist

[Jingthing]

Here is a link to this Jing bashing. If you slow it down you can actually hear him say "JingThing is a commie" "JingThing is a commie".

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?pl...listId=playlist

Yeah thanks for posting that. That's what I am talking about, the actual thing is much better than I could describe. Note the classic demagoguery, freedom of speech is great but if you dare express that freedom by complaining about a humongous flag at your gym, you are taking up space so leave the country. Taking this to the absurd degree, how about some big flags in toilet stalls, does that sound appropriate?

Again, non-Americans, do you have this kind of stuff from powerful people in your countries? Thanks to the answer from the UK.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[smokie36]

Here is a link to this Jing bashing. If you slow it down you can actually hear him say "JingThing is a commie" "JingThing is a commie".

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?pl...listId=playlist

Thanks for the link.

What is it with US politics and religion? He keeps inferring Obama has no belief. In the UK this would be seen as intrusive really.

I mean slate his sex life or his policies but his religion is no ones business but his.

Do US voters care about this stuff?

Edited November 2, 2009 by smokie36

[endure]

No, we don't have that kind of stuff in the UK - maybe because we're more cynical about politics/ticians in general than people in the US. We're also not very good at flag waving either and if you want to get elected over here you'd better not rub your religion in the voter's face. Sure guarantee of a lost deposit.

[pmarlin]

I saw the program and sure didn't get the message you got. I never saw a rant but just a level headed discussion.

[yabaaaa]

Thats absolutely disgraceful.................I cant believe you watch Fox

[sassienie]

Watching Fox "News" tv my blood came to a boil watching the Mike Huckabee show ...

Jingthing,

Your interpretation of Huckabee’s “rant” doesn’t make good sense. His opinion of people who feel offended by the mere presence of the American flag doesn’t say anything at all about American expats, much less about any of the reasons many people choose to live abroad. Your description of his words doesn’t even come close to bashing expats.

It seems to me that your being upset about what Huckabee may have said shows more about you and your own biases than anything about Huckabee, Fox News, or the right wing demonizing anyone.

Walt

I disagree. You are not getting the point. To demagogues like Huckabee, forcing someone to leave America is the worst thing you could do to a person, so the message about those who leave voluntarily is implied. His fans eat it up:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=F...ear=&Month=

I do mean FORCE. The people who for whatever reason did not want to look at a big old flag while working out were NOT expressing a desire for a ONE WAY ticket out of Dodge. That was Huckabee's idea, to put them on a plane out. Rationally speaking, is it really necessary for there to be a nation's flag everywhere in the country? Yes I know Thailand is a great example of a country on flag waving steroids, but isn't flag waving nationalism all the time everywhere kind of over the top?

Again my question in this thread is not about the long American "redneck" tradition of Love it or leave it represented today by Huckabee, but whether this kind of knee jerk nationalism is common in other western countries that are the source of the expats here reading this board. I already know the situation in the USA, I am asking about the other western countries.

I suspect most brits could not care less really.

There is no national patriotism unless related to sport and even then its half hearted imo.

Must admit, you are absolutely right.

As far as patriotism goes, the white British population are probably the most demoralised people on Earth.

That country was sold down the river years ago by the powers that be. In my experience of living in Thailand on and off for over 20 years, it`s the Brits who are the most reluctant to want to go home.

If there are those in America who are still proud to be Americans, proud of their flag and for what it stays for, I believe is a good thing.

I am still a patriotic Englishman and a Londoner, but these days prefer to be a patriot from afar. It would be a great pity to see America go the same way.

[chriswatson]

I can't say I agree with the OP's interpretation of the former Republican-presidential-candidate-now-cable-personality's comments. I think he was simply making a populist point that if you don't like "our" flag then it's "our way or the high way, buddy". Not sure what else you'd expect from a neo-con Fox front man. I don't see how it was an attack on US expats in any way, more an attack on immigrants to the US and/or the "far left" liberals (as they seem to be amusingly labelled).

Given I don't agree with the interpretation it is difficult to extend the argument to the UK. However, I'm not aware of any consensus on disloyalty about those that chose to leave from those that choose to remain. The opposite I'd say. Those who leave are viewed as the smart ones. It's also my experience that Brits abroad tend to be more patriotic when they’re “there” (at least in their attire), than when they’re at "home" - no disloyalty there - although this has everything to do with Union Jack trousers (pants?) looking more ridiculous than Union Jack shorts (er, short pants?) and the British weather not lending itself to the latter.

One is more likely to be arrested for being a Nazi if you fly a Union Jack in the UK, so weak have we become in allowing our flag to be "adopted" by the Far Right and so wet have we been in not standing up to the easily offended Politically Correct (intellectual) minorities. Huckabee would be in the Tower Of London by now for having said what the OP implied. But it wouldn't be the expats who'd have put him there.

The only time British residents put the boot-in on expats is when offshore bank's collapse and expats lose their money; as anyone who keeps their money outside of a British bank is deemed a tax-evading millionaire fiddler-genius getting their comeuppance. This is true even if they're just someone's granddad who's decided on a bit of sun in Spain for a few years and been told by his own bank to use an offshore branch to keep his life savings as they pay better interest rates.

Then the Brits laugh their heads off because i) our humour is cruel and ii) we know the expats are going to have to skulk back home into the rain with the rest of us, regardless of whether the old git gave his youth to a war or not.

Edited November 2, 2009 by chriswatson

[IanForbes]

The mention of Fox News says it all. They are no different than the radical Islamic groups who voice the opposition.

So, does this kind of thing happen in your home countries, or is the USA a little special this way?

Yes, the USA is special in that way. Most other countries that I'm familiar with are a little more rational than what is spouted over Fox News.

Fox News THRIVES on pissing people off. They hire their radical right wing idiots to spout off and attract similar idiots. It makes news and nasty news attracts the dollars.

[Jingthing]

Thats absolutely disgraceful.................I cant believe you watch Fox laugh.gif

I also watch Real Time with Bill Maher (someone I agree with) and lots of other stuff. Fox is entertaining and its useful to see what they are up to. I reckon MOST of their audience doesn't actually agree with their propaganda, they watch it for the entertainment value. Also one of their lesser known liberal commentators is an old college buddy and I never know when he will be on.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[beechguy]

Tell me the part about the expat bashing tirade, I didn't see or hear the same thing you claim to have heard. You post some interesting items, but this one is very misleading.

[kikoman]

Thats absolutely disgraceful.................I cant believe you watch Fox laugh.gif

I also watch Real Time with Bill Maher (someone I agree with) and lots of other stuff. Fox is entertaining and its useful to see what they are up to. I reckon MOST of their audience doesn't actually agree with their propaganda, they watch it for the entertainment value. Also one of their lesser known liberal commentators is an old college buddy and I never know when he will be on.

Fox news is a right wing entertainment station, not a news media station. I choose never to watch it.

Cheers:

Edited November 3, 2009 by kikoman

[Xangsamhua]

I think Australians generally respect their flag. There was a campaign for some years to change it to something more parochial (get that nasty imperialist Union Jack out of the corner), but it didn't get much support, despite periodic national design-a-flag competitions.

I don't know if many gyms in Oz (I'm familiar with them from years of transporting gymnastic daughters back and forth) would hang up a big Aussie flag, but if they did I doubt anyone would complain. I think they'd associate it with Olympic gold medallists.

I also doubt Australians - pollies or normal folk - have anything against Australians living abroad. After all, there are more than a million of them - 5% of the population. http://www.advance.org/en/rel/4/

[Ulysses G.]

Why do you watch Fox, just to find something you can be upset about? Seems like you a are stretching a bit on this one.

Fox is lot more entertaining than the other stations and the babes are way hotter. Are the guys hotter too? You don't have to make up reasons to watch it every day Jingthing. Your true fans still love you.

[PeaceBlondie]

Jing, if you don't want posters discussing American-bashing, don't mention the USA. Say that you were watching a Polish or Belizean politician bash his fellow citizens for not being scoundrels who wrap themselves in their flag. Talk about Thais worshipping the Thai flag.Pretend you're a Canuck....eh?

[PhilHarries]

Must admit, you are absolutely right.

As far as patriotism goes, the white British population are probably the most demoralised people on Earth.

That country was sold down the river years ago by the powers that be. In my experience of living in Thailand on and off for over 20 years, it`s the Brits who are the most reluctant to want to go home.

If there are those in America who are still proud to be Americans, proud of their flag and for what it stays for, I believe is a good thing.

I am still a patriotic Englishman and a Londoner, but these days prefer to be a patriot from afar. It would be a great pity to see America go the same way.

No, Britain was sold down the river years ago by the people that be. Like Thailand, British cinemas used to play the national anthem but unlike Thailand it was played after the end of the film. So there was always the almost shameful stampede out of the cinema whilst the closing credits went up to avoid getting caught and having to stand during the anthem.

That's only one example but it's the British people, aided and abetted admittedly by left wing politicos, who have turned patriotism and any display of the Union flag as examples of eccentricity and the people involved into objects of ridicule.

Jingthing, I like most of the others didn't see any attack on American expats living overseas but more a realistic bash at people who live in a country and benefit from it's freedoms but have this Lennonesque wish to live in a world of no nationalities, no national borders and no controls. These people are the first to scream when immigration gets out of control and their sons and daughters can't get work because of all the cheap immgrant labour. These people will bleat like stuck pigs when their sons and daughters are addicted to cocaine brought in from Columbia with no checks and controls because there are none.

Quite what this has to do with Thailand beats me except that most members of ThaiVisa are expats of one sort or another. The only thing that cannot be said about many here is that they are economic migrants, earning more in Thailand than they could in their home countries. However it could be said by the Thais that we are taking jobs that the locals could do thus taking rice from the plates of those who need it. This of course in most instances is not true but anti-immgrantism doesn't let facts get in the way of a good rant, as the British know all too well.

[on-on]

The political atmosphere in America is so acrimonious that you can't hardly discuss anything back home with anyone without CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL (or related terms) coming into the discussion. Expatriation, sadly, is no exception.

[Jingthing]

Regardless of whether you read the same IMPLIED meaning in the Huckabee rant that I did (that leaving America is un-American), if you are American expat and you have not had stay at home Americans openly question your love of our country, I think you are unusual or came from San Francisco ... The general thrust of this thread remains the same and the question remains the same, is your patriotism suspect because of being an expat? I know it is for Americans, you can't convince me any differently.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[Felt 35]

I’m sure there are both ethnical and immigrant citizens home which not are proud of their Country however I believe and hope its few!

The flag…..no one would dare to say or do disrespect to that.

[GarryP]

A number of years back my mum and dad told me that whatever I do I should not return to the UK and they have repeated this since. Not because thay were happy to be rid of me (although that is a possibility) but that the UK had gone down the toilet and someone had pulled the chain. Now my dad used to be quite patriotic, served in the forces etc. My dad certainly doesn't consider me a traitor.

I think it is possible, an earlier poster said something similar, that some consider the expats the smarter lot and perhaps view them with some jealousy. At least as far as Brits are concerned.

[thaihome]

Regardless of whether you read the same IMPLIED meaning in the Huckabee rant that I did (that leaving America is un-American), if you are American expat and you have not had stay at home Americans openly question your love of our country, I think you are unusual or came from San Francisco ... The general thrust of this thread remains the same and the question remains the same, is your patriotism suspect because of being an expat? I know it is for Americans, you can't convince me any differently.

I think you are really stretching here, and as an US citizen I disagree completely that my “patriotism” has ever been suspect because of being an expat. I cannot recall any instance when I have got that impression, and certainly that was not what the Huckabee was going on about.

TH

[on-on]

Regardless of whether you read the same IMPLIED meaning in the Huckabee rant that I did (that leaving America is un-American), if you are American expat and you have not had stay at home Americans openly question your love of our country, I think you are unusual or came from San Francisco ... The general thrust of this thread remains the same and the question remains the same, is your patriotism suspect because of being an expat? I know it is for Americans, you can't convince me any differently.

Now I'm wondering if you're just trying to argue, since I was agreeing with you and you managed to take offense and argue anyway, heh. SIMMMAH DOWN SIMMAH DOWN.

I'm from the county outside a small town in Texas where all my neighbors had livestock. Tom DeLay was my Congressman for most of my life and now it's Ron Paul. I could go on. There is literally no more Red American background imaginable and, yes, people basically question your patriotism even when they don't directly do it. Not all people, but enough of them. The other big thing that happens, in line with the same stereotype, is the excited, "I bet they hate us over there!" that always comes up from people looking to have their persecution complex affirmed. Responding no causes uncomfortable silence and switching of topics. Of course this is a conservative obsession, but my point was just that while I think one side's much worse about the persecution complex than the other, the atmosphere in America is so absurd that it doesn't matter what the topic is or which particular political ideology the person subscribes to, politics permeates things. I had a friend take a vacation to a former European colony recently and when I sent him an email asking him how it was I got back a long rant about Europeans, environmentalists and animal rights activists using all the usual keywords. This is an intelligent and educated guy and a good friend of mine, but he's also indicative of how things are back home and the situation you describe is basically a function of that.