Stirring Up The Hornets Nest

[MXPILOT]

I am a Thailand lover but I left. Yup, couldn't handle it. Lived there. I left Thailand for one reason. Corrupt authorities. The police being at the top of the guilty culprits. In my country they are corrupt as well but Thailand crosses the line...at least my own personal line. Your own tolerance level of corruption might be quite different. With time living in Bangkok I became reluctant or paranoid to stick up for myself in every day life situations. I knew then it was time to go. When you are afraid to defend yourself even verbally due to no belief whatsoever that the police will give you a fair shake..then screw it. People of Northern European descent have a strong sense of "fair play" Non-existent in LOS. Given we are not in Northern Europe. My personality is one that if I am wronged or disrespected I'm going to speak up. that's all fine and dandy in a society where "fair play" is the rule. This is the wrong personality for a Thailand Expat. You need to be a pacifist or non-confrontational type to stay out of trouble. Not me. There was the story of the expat that got stopped on his motorbike by the BOB. He did nothing wrong and forced the copper to explain why he was pulled over. Finally the BOB stated "farangs cant wear black helmets" Farang calls Bullshit on this. BOB puts his hand on his weapon and says " you want to make problem". Nuff said. I wasn't there but I don't doubt it one bit. I had a bike in BKK. If you can't count on the coppers you're screwed. You're rolling the dice to some extent every time you walk out the door and jump in the rat race in spite of having a stellar character. That's the excitement of the place you say? Maybe...From now on I'm just a visiting tourist.

[mizzi39]

Wow! Sorry you had such a negative experience here. Thailand is far from perfect, but I have personally never been harassed by the coppers in the almost three years residing here, and i have been pulled over, (and stopped at road blocks on numerous occasions) in my car, as well as my motorbike, although I do not deny that this level of harassment happens.

Being harassed on any level is not a pleasant experience, however i would much rather pay some small bribe than the outrageous fees charged in my home country for some "civil infraction"

Being afraid to leave your front door in fear of being harassed sounds more of a paranoia issue than The BOB being out to get you, so yes you made the right decision in going back to your home country!

[Ulysses G.]

I'm afraid that almost every country has police like this. If you make them lose face, they just might beat you up or even plug you. I kiss the butts of the police in the US even more than the police here.

[Redhawk]

Actually I am coming to Thailand for about 20 years, living here by now, I own a car and bike too, means I still do travel around a lot, have been residing in Bkk, Pattaya, Ubon, Phuket, CM and now in Korat I never experienced it to be hold at gunpoint by BiBs for arguing about a problem, it just the sound that makes the music.

The words by the OP seems full of anger about could'nt make it here but that's not the problem of the BiB.

For example in our days in Germany, if it comes to an vehicle control the police officers always put their hands on their gun even having children in the car etc. some even pulls it out of the holster in the nighttime approaching your car. This behaviour seems to me much more threatening and especially some kind of german officers do not no the word polite anymore. Just my few cents.

[PhilHarries]

Being harassed on any level is not a pleasant experience, however i would much rather pay some small bribe than the outrageous fees charged in my home country for some "civil infraction"

You mean when you "break the law". All countries have laws, some we may agree with some not, but whatever you think of those laws they are there to be obeyed or pay the price. To do otherwise is to step out on the slippery slope to anarchy. What if I consider burglary to be no more than a "civil infraction" and came round and done your house while you were out? I get caught by the police and pay a few thousand under the table money to forget all about it. Then I'm back out on the streets and back in business.

Is that okay with you?

Corruption starts at ground zero with paying the BiB a couple of hundred to "forget" us jumping a red light and ends up with a politician pocketing millions over a bent construction contract. It is ingrained in some societies from bottom to top to the point that people don't care any more. So an aircraft crashes on landing because someone pocketed the money that should have gone into the air traffic control system but your wife and daughter died on that flight.

Okay or not?

The basic duty of the police and the judiciary is to protect the people no matter their social status or colour of skin. Other countries police forces are also, at times, guilty of bending the rules but when they are caught they get prosecuted. In Thailand, and other developing countries, they just get shunted off into a quiet backwater until all is forgotten they brought out to start over. Take the case of that copper who shot the Canadian guy in Pai, what jail is he in now? Answers on the head of a pin.

The OP is correct, to an extent you have to adopt the mai bpen rai attitude to live in a place like Thailand. Some can do it some can not and he is exercising the attitude that will be expressed sometime in this thread "If you don't like it, go home".

[whistleblower]

Being harassed on any level is not a pleasant experience, however i would much rather pay some small bribe than the outrageous fees charged in my home country for some "civil infraction"

You mean when you "break the law". All countries have laws, some we may agree with some not, but whatever you think of those laws they are there to be obeyed or pay the price. To do otherwise is to step out on the slippery slope to anarchy. What if I consider burglary to be no more than a "civil infraction" and came round and done your house while you were out? I get caught by the police and pay a few thousand under the table money to forget all about it. Then I'm back out on the streets and back in business.

Is that okay with you?

Corruption starts at ground zero with paying the BiB a couple of hundred to "forget" us jumping a red light and ends up with a politician pocketing millions over a bent construction contract. It is ingrained in some societies from bottom to top to the point that people don't care any more. So an aircraft crashes on landing because someone pocketed the money that should have gone into the air traffic control system but your wife and daughter died on that flight.

Okay or not?

The basic duty of the police and the judiciary is to protect the people no matter their social status or colour of skin. Other countries police forces are also, at times, guilty of bending the rules but when they are caught they get prosecuted. In Thailand, and other developing countries, they just get shunted off into a quiet backwater until all is forgotten they brought out to start over. Take the case of that copper who shot the Canadian guy in Pai, what jail is he in now? Answers on the head of a pin.

The OP is correct, to an extent you have to adopt the mai bpen rai attitude to live in a place like Thailand. Some can do it some can not and he is exercising the attitude that will be expressed sometime in this thread "If you don't like it, go home".

Well said!!! It has always amazed me here about the way police pick stupid excuses to get their tea money. If they actually enforced what is law on the road (no talking on mobiles, must wear crash helmets etc) then they wouldnt need to shake down innocents. They would be kept busy collecting fines from real law breakers.

Also a new "Law' being touted around Silom is that you can now be fined for buying pirate dvds on the street (up to 100,000bht).

[LawnGnome]

I am a Thailand lover but I left. Yup, couldn't handle it. Lived there. I left Thailand for one reason. Corrupt authorities. The police being at the top of the guilty culprits. In my country they are corrupt as well but Thailand crosses the line...at least my own personal line. Your own tolerance level of corruption might be quite different. With time living in Bangkok I became reluctant or paranoid to stick up for myself in every day life situations. I knew then it was time to go. When you are afraid to defend yourself even verbally due to no belief whatsoever that the police will give you a fair shake..then screw it. People of Northern European descent have a strong sense of "fair play" Non-existent in LOS. Given we are not in Northern Europe. My personality is one that if I am wronged or disrespected I'm going to speak up. that's all fine and dandy in a society where "fair play" is the rule. This is the wrong personality for a Thailand Expat. You need to be a pacifist or non-confrontational type to stay out of trouble. Not me. There was the story of the expat that got stopped on his motorbike by the BOB. He did nothing wrong and forced the copper to explain why he was pulled over. Finally the BOB stated "farangs cant wear black helmets" Farang calls Bullshit on this. BOB puts his hand on his weapon and says " you want to make problem". Nuff said. I wasn't there but I don't doubt it one bit. I had a bike in BKK. If you can't count on the coppers you're screwed. You're rolling the dice to some extent every time you walk out the door and jump in the rat race in spite of having a stellar character. That's the excitement of the place you say? Maybe...From now on I'm just a visiting tourist.

Easy and simple way to avoid problems in Thailand. Don't seek them out, and don't be an assclown.

[GarryP]

You cannot be fined for buying pirated CDs/DVDs yet. The proposed revisions to the Copyright Act imposing penalties on consumers have not been approved yet. It is unlikely that they will be approved either.

[mizzi39]

Being harassed on any level is not a pleasant experience, however i would much rather pay some small bribe than the outrageous fees charged in my home country for some "civil infraction"

You mean when you "break the law". All countries have laws, some we may agree with some not, but whatever you think of those laws they are there to be obeyed or pay the price. To do otherwise is to step out on the slippery slope to anarchy. What if I consider burglary to be no more than a "civil infraction" and came round and done your house while you were out? I get caught by the police and pay a few thousand under the table money to forget all about it. Then I'm back out on the streets and back in business.

Is that okay with you?

Corruption starts at ground zero with paying the BiB a couple of hundred to "forget" us jumping a red light and ends up with a politician pocketing millions over a bent construction contract. It is ingrained in some societies from bottom to top to the point that people don't care any more. So an aircraft crashes on landing because someone pocketed the money that should have gone into the air traffic control system but your wife and daughter died on that flight.

Okay or not?

The basic duty of the police and the judiciary is to protect the people no matter their social status or colour of skin. Other countries police forces are also, at times, guilty of bending the rules but when they are caught they get prosecuted. In Thailand, and other developing countries, they just get shunted off into a quiet backwater until all is forgotten they brought out to start over. Take the case of that copper who shot the Canadian guy in Pai, what jail is he in now? Answers on the head of a pin.

The OP is correct, to an extent you have to adopt the mai bpen rai attitude to live in a place like Thailand. Some can do it some can not and he is exercising the attitude that will be expressed sometime in this thread "If you don't like it, go home".

Don't know what country you are from, but breaking into homes is a criminal offense where i come from. The scenario I am talking about is the traffic cop in my home country who has nothing better to do on a Friday night than to lay and wait for some motorist on a deserted back road to drive by and start tailing such motorist for no other reason than he has nothing better to do. blue lights flashing, and suddenly being "told" that I (motorist) have a tail or license plate light out, I was going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit etc.. that kind of harassment.

But, hey if you know someone who knows the cop, a $75.00-$100.00 gift certificate to Home Depot, will usually rectify the problem. Sort of what happens here with roadblocks, and the street thieves with badges.

I expect my hard earned tax dollars to go for the protection of society at large, not some arbitrary bull <deleted>.

Edited November 3, 2009 by mizzi39

[whistleblower]

You cannot be fined for buying pirated CDs/DVDs yet. The proposed revisions to the Copyright Act imposing penalties on consumers have not been approved yet. It is unlikely that they will be approved either.

Can you go to Silom and tell the BIB that please? It also doesnt matter what laws are passed. Laws are only effective if the organisation put in charge to enforce them (police) enforce them in a transparent way (ie free from corruption). If you are are tourist and have just bought pirate dvds from the street and are then harrassed/brow beaten into paying a bribe from the very people (police) that are meant to be there to protect you, what choice do you have?

[mrtoad]

I am a Thailand lover but I left. Yup, couldn't handle it. Lived there. I left Thailand for one reason. Corrupt authorities. The police being at the top of the guilty culprits. In my country they are corrupt as well but Thailand crosses the line...at least my own personal line. Your own tolerance level of corruption might be quite different. With time living in Bangkok I became reluctant or paranoid to stick up for myself in every day life situations. I knew then it was time to go. When you are afraid to defend yourself even verbally due to no belief whatsoever that the police will give you a fair shake..then screw it. People of Northern European descent have a strong sense of "fair play" Non-existent in LOS. Given we are not in Northern Europe. My personality is one that if I am wronged or disrespected I'm going to speak up. that's all fine and dandy in a society where "fair play" is the rule. This is the wrong personality for a Thailand Expat. You need to be a pacifist or non-confrontational type to stay out of trouble. Not me. There was the story of the expat that got stopped on his motorbike by the BOB. He did nothing wrong and forced the copper to explain why he was pulled over. Finally the BOB stated "farangs cant wear black helmets" Farang calls Bullshit on this. BOB puts his hand on his weapon and says " you want to make problem". Nuff said. I wasn't there but I don't doubt it one bit. I had a bike in BKK. If you can't count on the coppers you're screwed. You're rolling the dice to some extent every time you walk out the door and jump in the rat race in spite of having a stellar character. That's the excitement of the place you say? Maybe...From now on I'm just a visiting tourist.

Who is BOB?

[phetaroi]

I am a Thailand lover but I left. Yup, couldn't handle it.

...

Your own tolerance level of corruption might be quite different.

...

My personality is one that if I am wronged or disrespected I'm going to speak up. that's all fine and dandy in a society where "fair play" is the rule. This is the wrong personality for a Thailand Expat. You need to be a pacifist or non-confrontational type to stay out of trouble.

...

There was the story of the expat that got stopped on his motorbike by the BOB. He did nothing wrong and forced the copper to explain why he was pulled over. Finally the BOB stated "farangs cant wear black helmets" Farang calls Bullshit on this. BOB puts his hand on his weapon and says " you want to make problem".

...

I have mixed feelings about your post. I think that you are wise in the sense that you realized living here was not a fit for you. And, you're probably right that you may need to be a non-confrontational type (Thai for farang) to fit in here.

I don't take the motorcycle helmet situation at face value. I imagine there was lots more to it.

[phetaroi]

...

Corruption starts at ground zero with paying the BiB a couple of hundred to "forget" us jumping a red light

...

The basic duty of the police and the judiciary is to protect the people no matter their social status or colour of skin

...

The OP is correct, to an extent you have to adopt the mai bpen rai attitude to live in a place like Thailand. Some can do it some can not and he is exercising the attitude that will be expressed sometime in this thread "If you don't like it, go home".

To be honest with you, although it has not yet happened to me, if I had a choice between paying a few hundred baht to have an infraction overlooked, or paying a few hundred dollars for turning right on red where I didn't see the sign because if was posted in a different-than-normal position, I'd much prefer to pay the few hundred baht.

For me, the primary responsibility of the police and judiciary is to maintain law and order.

I came here on a "retirement visa", but over twenty years I spent a lot of time here. I knew what I was getting into. If I didn't think I could fit into the situation, yes, I actually think I should have gone home. That's not the same as saying "love it or leave it", rather it is saying "why be miserable and moan and groan and bitch for the rest of your life over a situation that will not change just because I'm unhappy".

[Maigo6]

I left Thailand for one reason. Corrupt authorities.

C'mon mate, you left Thailand for the same reason that 99.99999999% of others leave, you ran out of money.

[PhilHarries]

Don't know what country you are from, but breaking into homes is a criminal offense where i come from. The scenario I am talking about is the traffic cop in my home country who has nothing better to do on a Friday night than to lay and wait for some motorist on a deserted back road to drive by and start tailing such motorist for no other reason than he has nothing better to do. blue lights flashing, and suddenly being "told" that I (motorist) have a tail or license plate light out, I was going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit etc.. that kind of harassment.

But, hey if you know someone who knows the cop, a $75.00-$100.00 gift certificate to Home Depot, will usually rectify the problem. Sort of what happens here with roadblocks, and the street thieves with badges.

I expect my hard earned tax dollars to go for the protection of society at large, not some arbitrary bull <deleted>.

Yes you are quite correct and theft is a criminal offense in the UK and it was a bad comparison on my part. The point I was trying to make is that many people quite happily break laws or regulations they think are stupid or non-sensical and consider themselves modern day rebels. However if someone breaks the law and it affects them personally they want justice, they want it NOW and they want it meted out viciously.

Take the lax motoring laws in Thailand. How many expats have been pulled over for drink driving (DUI) and got away with 500 Baht bunged to the copper and then swaggered around the bar next night bragging about it to their mates. Now consider the scenario when one of these "Jack-the-lads" is at work and gets a tearful phone call from his wife telling him their son has just been knocked down by a drunk driver and is in a serious condition in hospital. Later he learns that the drunk had been pulled by the police but bunged them the regulation 500 and was left to go on his way.

What do you think his reaction would be?

Suddenly the relaxed mai bpen rai attitude prevalent in Thailand ain't so endearing is it?

BTW the police in the UK don't have to tail people during the night. They just sit around and wait for the CCTV's to produce the evidence.

[Geekfreaklover]

edit.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Mossfinn]

Who is BOB?

The local Goldfish

[sassienie]

I would say Thailand should be compared with what they used to say about London; it either makes you or breaks you.

Westerners that decide to live in Thailand for the long term must be able to adapt. Things here are completely different to what we are used to in the West.

Thailand is not for everyone, and in the OPs case, he is better suited in a Western country.

[Johpa]

You need to be a pacifist or non-confrontational type to stay out of trouble. Not me.

Well no need to read much further to understand why you are not meant to be living as a guest in Thailand. Thailand is not the place for confrontational people. You will be much happier elsewhere. Smooth sailing.