Thailand Second Best-value Destination: Lonely Planet

[joker]

Bali (Indonesia), Goa (India), Koh Kong (Cambodia), Southern Africa and southwest Western Australia featured among the top 10 regions.

?!?!?!

I once got stuck in Koh Kong for a night on the way to Sihanoukville. There was almost nothing there, except for hotels and beer bars (this was in 2002 I think). My impression was that the whole town's business model was based on tourists getting trapped for the night because they missed the one boat to Sihanoukville. At the time, the Thai-Cambodia Bridge hadn't been completed yet and the only way to Sihanoukville was by boat. The border crossing from Thailand opened at 8am, and you had about 30 minutes to get through and try to catch the boat, which required a taxi or moto ride to a pier some distance away. Maybe the first few people caught it; the rest of us stayed the night in Koh Kong. I have a hard time believing that this narrow window was a coincidence.

It was cheap though.

Apparently it has been been built up a bit since then (and perhaps there was more to it than I knew at the time). Admittedly, since I had no intention of staying there, I didn't do any reading on the place in advance. The staff at the hotel were helpful, but my Khmer was minimal, and their English not much better. I ended up taking a somewhat sketchy motorcycle tour to a "water fall" for the afternoon, and finishing up the evening at a beer bar with my moto driver and his friends (whose food and drinks of course I ended up paying for, although the total bill was quite reasonable).

Has anyone here been to Koh Kong in recent years?

Yes, I was there not long ago actually. There are no more crazy speedboat connections etc,

so that is one headache less.

First thing, getting your Visa. At Poipet and Phnom Penh it's $20.00 BUT at Koh Kong,

whether you are 'helped' or not, they want it in BAHT(!) and usually BT,1,300 up, which

is far more than your $20.00.

Getting that boat in the morning is almost impossible, so you will end up in Koh Kong.

By the time you get there, there will be no buses going to Phnom Penh for example and

the only way to get out of there, is to go by taxi but unless you want to PAY BIG, then

you can wait to see if more people want to go and share, thus bringing the costs down.

Going to Sihanoukville of course is less distance and somewhat easier.

Coming back from Phnom Penh is ok, Bus again around 07.30am, which takes you right

to the border and crossing over isn't so bad. Transport to Pattaya/Bangkok would be better

arranged in advance, otherwise you might be able to share in a minibus to Trat.

If you really want to do Cambodia properly, then go in at Poipet and out at Koh Kong and

you can take in practically every major place.

[Martian]

Typical Nation story. Leave out any facts. So if Thailand is second best, which is the BEST country to visit?

I seemed to recall Iceland being mentioned as the "best value". Did I dream that?

[Martian]

How did Vegas rate? Easier to get mugged? Easier to be ripped off and taxis that you hand your wallet to and say keep the change! Hotels that are way way over priced if you are not a gambler and police and ambulance sirens and guns shots 24/7. Value for money? Try buying any suit at your local tailor there for under 1,000? Yep - LP were doing these reports off internet blogs!

Certainly Las Vegas ranks right there with NYC as the two most expensive ripoffs in the U.S.

Las Vegas is actually a very reasonable destination if you do your homework and don't require luxury. Last year I stayed in $16-a-night rooms and ate $5.95 Prime Rib meals with all the trimmings. If you travel there once a year and play a reasonable amount of time, you can easily get free rooms. Taking some time at the penny slots while boozing it up with free beers ($1 tip to the cocktail waitress) provides for some entertainment and relaxation away from the 3 hour crap table sessions. RT airfare can be had for less than $200 from the most distant places in the 48 states.

If you stay up on Fremont Street, no need to battle the hoards or venture out into the rat race. Everything you need for a few days stay is on Fremont street ...including lower table limits and a more relaxed gambling atmosphere. Learn the simple bus routes and you can get anywhere cheaply.

I just returned from Macau and LV wins hands down...except for the available birds......Macau wins there hands down.

[caulfield2]

Iceland is strictly because of the economic meltdown, and because it was so pricey not long ago.

They could have just as easily mentioned Ireland as well (they did cite "Cork")...countries like Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, ones the most adversely affected by the subprime mortgage fiasco.

I went from Thailand/Mukdahan through Savannahket to central Vietnam (Hue/Da Nang) then south to Nha Trang and Ho Chi Minh and then came into Cambodia from the southeast on bus. (The "sleeper" buses in Vietnam are great...however, don't get trapped on a Laotian bus, there were only two every 24 hours to Vietnam, so we were STUCK all day in the bustling 2nd largest city of SAVKHT!!! It was an okay time until our bus ride, without air conditioning, riding on top of bags of rice, with a herd (I know the wrong word but that was the feeling) of live chickens and about 5000 crates of Red Bull that was obviously overloaded, and just as obviously the MAIN goal of the transportation service was to double as a cargo company....we stopped at 3-4 am and took another 2-3 hours to load and unload and then take on MORE cargo for Vietnam. Capitalism at work, quite an achievement in logistics. Lo and behold, we arrive at the Vietnam border and 100 people show up with wheelbarrows, donkeys, carts and kids to carry off rice bags.

The one thing I really have a negative comment about in terms of Cambodia is that road from Siem Reap to the border (Poi Pet)...it seemed to take hours and hours on that horrible "washboard" dirt road which was overwhelmed with rain, ruts and bridge construction. I have never been so thankful to get back to Thailand in my life. Now I understand why people are willing to pay $300-400 just to fly from BKK to Siem Reap/Angkor Wat.

Angkor Wat is very amazing and worth seeing for sure (compared to say, The Great Wall)....it's essentially 2 days if you want to see everything and really enjoy it to the fullest extent, just like Forbidden City in Beijing.

[lubbkis]

What utter crap!!! I agree London has now most certainly become better value. Things are much cheaper in comparison to Thailand.

Yup. A plate of Pad Thai, close to my office in WC1 only costs about B400; last year it was about B600. On th other hand most restaurants in Thailand have backs on the chairs unlike the chairs in the one I refer to.

[denissr]

How much does a good rank cost?

I was wondering the same thing. I was in Las Vegas a month ago. A value lunch or breakfast $25.00, dinner $35.00. Go a little upscale and dinner will cost $60.00-$75.00.

[stkyricesf]

What utter crap!!! I agree London has now most certainly become better value. Things are much cheaper in comparison to Thailand. Thailand is fast becoming a major rip off! People are still living in the past and still believe the old crap. So what is better value in Thailand?

Quote ' People are still living in the past and still believe in the old #%%.' Hey as long as Thailand and the thai people hang on to their values and culture I always consider that a great value. Now if we could just keep the western cultures from trying to push their values on Thailand

[LTGTR]

OBVIOUSLY,they haven't paid attention to the dollar's drop vs the pound-duh!

[mrdome]

Did I miss a turn and end up on a Thailand haters forum by any chance? Surely, people can't be this bitter??

A poll such as this will never come up with a result everyone will agree with. India sucks, London sucks, LP sucks... You will always find people who hate the thing you like or see as neutral.

[nakachalet]

THEFARANG--....How they could claim that El Salvador, South Africa and Thailand are good tourist destinations? They must be basing their opinion on cost only, with little or no priority given to the safety of the tourist. All three countries posed serious threats to toursists.

hi thefarang.... are you not quite safe here in thailand so far....?

if you were ever intentionally injured by a thai, once or several times.... then perhaps you should be thinking about the not so safe thailand and why are you not choosing a better, safer and more economical country to dwell in....?

some of us have been here on and off for decade or several decades.... if you find thailand not so safe a place to live and you happen to find a better country....

pls, pray do share with us.... we will be most appreciative.... many of us are also looking for a better place to live.... but could not find any for the moment to move our family members to....

this is not a personal attack, ok.

[harrycallahan]

Wish they'd give Australia a permanent high place in these lists just to spare us locals the national anxiety attack every time we're not.

[phetaroi]

How much does a good rank cost?

Do you have some evidence that the Thai government bribed Lonely Planet?

Are you here? If so, it appears to be your number one destination.

[phetaroi]

How did Vegas rate? Easier to get mugged? Easier to be ripped off and taxis that you hand your wallet to and say keep the change! Hotels that are way way over priced if you are not a gambler and police and ambulance sirens and guns shots 24/7. Value for money? Try buying any suit at your local tailor there for under 1,000? Yep - LP were doing these reports off internet blogs!

Somehow I doubt that among the criteria LP used was where can you buy a cheap suit. That's not a typical tourist activity across the world. Additionally, LP clientele is not typically out to buy suits...they tend to cater toward lower income earners.

Las Vegas...I've never been there...but my father and my ex boss both went/go there often. They're not that into gambling, but they get such good deals from the large hotels that assume those who stay there also gamble there.

[phetaroi]

Best location for Hookers maybe.

We bow to your expertise!

Only kidding.

[phetaroi]

No, it's sometimes hard to imagine how these publications like LP come up with this stuff, just reinforces my belief that nobody from LP actually travels anywhere they just rely on Google and update their guides about once every ten years.

The LP Thailand guides are written by Joe Cummins, who -- if you've ever actually read the guide -- has clearly spent a lot of time in Thailand. That's not to say I agree with his reviews of lodging and restaurants, but that's because my tastes are a bit more refined than his.

[phetaroi]

Just for the records, I don't particularly like Lonely Planet guides. I haven't owned one in several years. I get all my travel info online now.

LP has its "place", and it's clearly a different "place" than say, Frommers. A tourist guide is for...tourists! People who will visit a country for a week or two or three. They're not designed for expats. There are other books for that.

[shawndoc]

How much does a good rank cost?

I was wondering the same thing. I was in Las Vegas a month ago. A value lunch or breakfast $25.00, dinner $35.00. Go a little upscale and dinner will cost $60.00-$75.00.

Plan ahead, and LV can be very cheap. During the week, you can get rooms at a major strip hotel for $40-60/night. Stay some place like Circus Circus, and they'll have rooms in the $30 range.

There's good buffets for $10-15 for dinner. And if you go off strip you can find some for even less than that, not to mention steak and eggs for $6. Drinks are free as long as you're playing (And penny slots can make $10 last a long time).

If you like to gamble you'll be comped rooms/food pretty easily, and discounts can be found for the big shows.

Airfare to LV tends to be dirt cheap, with lots of flights to/from.

Don't take the Taxi to your hotel, use a shuttle bus ($7).

Las Vegas is a lot like Bangkok, if you want to pay a lot and live like a big roller you can, but there's plenty of bargains for those who don't need the best.

[nakachalet]

it seems almost everyone talks about las vegas, nevada....

does anyone know or has been to a place which is much less expensive but offers much more exciting avenues for travelers than lv....?

reno is the name.... and within its 60 miles redius,

there is a world renown lake tahoe where in the winter you can sky till your heart's content....

and during the summer months which normally run from june to october, you can climb or hike up its most breathtaking mountains.... and

you can also water ski in crystal clear water all day long, if you wish....

and the air is absolutely fresh mountain air.... and the drinking water is also mountain cool....

and it contains no radio isotopes which might cause serious illness like some other places....

take a look at the attached pix and tell me--how much more superior reno is over las vegas.... lol

and reno is only about 7,000 feet above sea level (?).... lol

Edited November 4, 2009 by nakachalet

[bkkjames]

it seems almost everyone talks about las vegas, nevada....

does anyone know or has been to a place which is much less expensive but offers much more exciting avenues for travelers than lv....?

reno is the name.... and within its 60 miles redius,

there is a world renown lake tahoe where in the winter you can sky till your heart's content....

and during the summer months which normally run from june to october, you can climb or hike up its most breathtaking mountains.... and

you can also water ski in crystal clear water all day long, if you wish....

and the air is absolutely fresh mountain air.... and the drinking water is also mountain cool....

and it contains no radio isotopes which might cause serious illness like some other places....

take a look at the attached pix and tell me--how much more superior reno is over las vegas.... lol

and reno is only about 7,000 feet above sea level (?).... lol

Are you saying vacationing in Lake Tahoe is cheap compared to Vegas?

[nakachalet]

yes, si, oui

generally, it will be cheaper. they always have special packages for tourists, particularly overseas tourists....

if you stay in reno and then drive to lake tahoe which takes about 45 minutes, your expenses will be greatly reduced.

yes, i skiied in tahoe for about 10 yrs and lived in reno....

where else on earth can you have the all-you-can-eat gourmet food, chinese, japanese, european and american cuisine for 15 usd .... lol

and sea food and lobster on friday and saturday nights.... at 25 usd.... lol

while you are in reno.... go to harrah's at center of town and go and ask for miss lily.... she is the best and most pleasant supervisor.... she can comp you till you roll over.... lol

Edited November 4, 2009 by nakachalet

[bkkjames]

yes, si, oui

generally, it will be cheaper. they always have special packages for tourists, particularly overseas tourists....

if you stay in reno and then drive to lake tahoe which takes about 45 minutes, your expenses will be greatly reduced.

yes, i skiied in tahoe for about 10 yrs and lived in reno....

where else on earth can you have the all-you-can-eat gourmet food, chinese, japanese, european and american cuisine for 15 usd .... lol

and sea food and lobster on friday and saturday nights.... at 25 usd.... lol

while you are in reno.... go to harrah's at center of town and go and ask for miss lily.... she is the best and most pleasant supervisor.... she can comp you till you roll over.... lol

If I stayed in Lake Las Vegas and drove into town my expenses would be greatly reduced but the point is why would I want to do that while on vacation. Where else can I get an all you can eat buffet like the one you mention above? Any Vegas hotel.

[shawndoc]

Some documentary videos to help entice you to visit Reno.

http://tinyurl.com/ygec68r

http://tinyurl.com/yfbppbs

http://tinyurl.com/yz8jvep

[bkkjames]

I don't want to go to Reno mate.

[oevna]

I don't want to go to Reno mate.

Agreed! And by coincidence, I am going to Las Vegas in less than two weeks! Woo hoo!!! Vegas, baby!!!

Ahem. Ok, got that out of my system.

I don't go to Vegas for outdoor activities, I go there for the party atmosphere and the entertainment.

I've been to Reno and the Lake Tahoe area too, and yes there is much more natural beauty there. I go there when I want to go hiking, camping, snowboarding, mountain biking, etc., because that is what it is best for.

And for the same reason, I go to Vegas when I want to party!

[Grey11]

How much does a good rank cost?

I was wondering the same thing. I was in Las Vegas a month ago. A value lunch or breakfast $25.00, dinner $35.00. Go a little upscale and dinner will cost $60.00-$75.00.

Plan ahead, and LV can be very cheap. During the week, you can get rooms at a major strip hotel for $40-60/night. Stay some place like Circus Circus, and they'll have rooms in the $30 range.

There's good buffets for $10-15 for dinner. And if you go off strip you can find some for even less than that, not to mention steak and eggs for $6. Drinks are free as long as you're playing (And penny slots can make $10 last a long time).

If you like to gamble you'll be comped rooms/food pretty easily, and discounts can be found for the big shows.

Airfare to LV tends to be dirt cheap, with lots of flights to/from.

Don't take the Taxi to your hotel, use a shuttle bus ($7).

Las Vegas is a lot like Bangkok, if you want to pay a lot and live like a big roller you can, but there's plenty of bargains for those who don't need the best.

Sounds like the life of a backpacker. I have been to Las Vegas twice and felt like a damned fool both times giving all my money to the Mafia. Americans are familiar with Hot Cakes & Sausages from McDonald's. In LV if you want more than one syrup it will cost you an extra 10 cents! I have stayed at the Mirage & the MGM and for days played and walked through the casinos. I saw ONE Person Win! One person! In the Mirage there were 5 restaurants. The menus are on the wall outside the restaurants. Not one meal cheaper than $30! Sure you can get a taxi and go to the so-called "cheap" old town and get a buffet for $20. But the food is terrible. It has no taste. The spices used are salt & pepper. The noise is unbelievable. The sidewalks are jammed with hundreds if not thousands of people shoulder to shoulder. If you want to get nothing and give your money to the gangsters that run the place, go ahead be a fool! I still feel like a fool for taking my wife there for our 25th wedding anniversary. After we got home she said she would rather go anywhere other than Mexico. We could have gone to beautiful places like Charleston, S.C., Savannah, Ga., etc. But, no we went to that rip off of rip offs Las Vegas!

If you are fool enough, give it a try and see if you agree with the above poster. Hang on to your wallet! Oh, yeah, if you want to go to one of the "shows" get ready to shell out close to $100 each for a ticket. If you want to get in the hotels pools, you can't even turn around. I wonder how filthy that water is. My wife wouldn't even get in it.

[RubbaJohnny]

Oops.

Another 'nail in the coffin' for the 'glass-half-empty' brigade.

They must be grinding their teeth in chagrin at this point.

Perhaps this nation will NOT slide downwards past Burma and Korea as they had predicted with monotonous regularity over the last 12 months.

What about the drunk Aussie sheila who stole the bar mat? That was meant to have a devastating long term impact on how all foreigners, white and black, fat and skinny, chose to view Thailand.

No?

Sir no lady is ever drunk,the drinks were too many and too various and she merely stuffed into her knickers assuming it was amessage from the britsh consul in Ko Samui who is trawling the bars seeking new friends.

I belive the condition is called xenophilia or Britoscour.

Like so many fine Antipodeans she may have been of convict extraction and simply couldn't help herself another tragic victim of Winona Ryder syndrome.

One less slapper I'm devastsed this may be the final Noleen in the coffin

[Rumfoord]

Haven't been to LOS for quite a while so can't comment, but, other post on other topics would suggest that it is still very reasonable.

South Africa? LP is kidding surely. Cousin of mine just returned from 4 weeks seeing old friends. She lived there for 28 years. Rape capital of the world (good value?).

It's STILL a "time bomb so what's new", to quote from today's email (value?).

South Korea? They eat dog there. Good value? Who gives a shoot.

Mexico? Super dodgy household electrics. Who gives a shoot?

Iceland? So the ladies are friendlier, are they, than in times past? Cold, barren. Who gives a ........?

India? OMG. Never been there, but how could it be other than filthy and smelly and chockers with child exploitation? Value? Who gives a ........?

London? Don't know how ordinary tourists manage there frankly. A friend recently returned with 'horrific' stories of the cost of a coffee, piece of cake etcetera. Great place if you like the cold winters (some don't mind I'm told).

Where else? Who gives a ........

[Nelorie]

What utter crap!!! I agree London has now most certainly become better value. Things are much cheaper in comparison to Thailand. Thailand is fast becoming a major rip off! People are still living in the past and still believe the old crap. So what is better value in Thailand?

Don't forget that "we" see Thailand differently from the regular tourists. I can see why Tom, Dick and Henriette like Thailand: temples, oriental food, tropical beaches, bamboo bungalows, loads of sunshine and generally friendly people. To people who've been living in Thailand things might be slightly different. But your average tourist doesn't give a toss about being ripped-off. hel_l, they wouldn't be able to tell if they were. The Euro gives you around 50 Baht; to European tourists this simply means a cheap holiday (where a beer is about the same price as it is at home). Infrastructure/transportation is reasonably well organized, so what's there to complain about? Two weeks later they're back home with shiploads of photographs and good memories.

I have to say Thailand is tiresome. Every day i have to watch out to not get ripped off. From Accommodation with extra expenses 5 mins before I go to airport; taxi drivers that want 3 times the proper fare, to rip off drinks and food at bars and restaurants.

They have to stop the rip-off mentality before the touorists will come. We are no longer rich overseas farangs.

[nakachalet]

imho

it is very tough for thailand as a whole to practise fairness....

unless, people in charge will impose upon themselves to be more transparent and fair.... as a good behavioral example for their workers to follow.

it is truly tough.... but it is much better now than several years back....

BUT STILL IT IS NOT AT ALL GOOD ENOUGH AS YET, AS VIEWED AND EXPERIENCED BY MOST WESTERNERS.... cheers

[slipperx]

I live in Phuket just having returned from a break in Pattaya. On meeting up with a mate in Phuket I overheard a Tuk Tuk driver trying to extort 550 baht for a trip from the beach road to the Meridien which is probably about 3 km at most. The beer bars under Tiger are charging 120-140 a drink and 220 for a lady drink. Eating out is not really cheap anymore in the majority of places in Phuket but is certainly a lot cheaper than the UK where eating out is prohibitively expensive though drinks are pretty comparable. Pattaya on the other hand has much cheaper restaurants and bars and a greater variety. That said both Pattaya and Phuket are terribly quiet compared to normal for this time of year despite the number of Russians overrunning Pattaya.

I think that on the whole most places in Thailand are cheap but then the quality is lacking both in nightlife and in things to do - for instance if you go to say Pitsanoulok (probably spelt that wrong) I am sure you will find a hotel for about $20 a night and can eat for next to nothing but there is nothing there of much interest to do day or night. I am sorry to say that Phuket is moving towards pricing itself out of the market when you add up the cost of transportation and the other rip offs going on. The Holiday Inn is charging 13,000 a night for a pool studio over Xmas - doesn't sound so cheap to me.

Thailand cannot afford to ignore the problems in it's tourist industry and the complaints that come through from foreigners should not just be brushed away if they want to maintain their tourism sector at the same vibrancy it once had.