Reserve and critisism

[francois]

Hello,

first I want to agree with larry, not for it;s virtual vote intention, but for the analysis of the situation as we see it.

Since already a good moment one discusses the policy of Thailand...

Is this really something which concerns us?

the policy of this country belongs to the inhabitants of this country, I mean, to the people who were born Thai, we were not born here, and even if we live there since a long time, in no case we should be concerned with the domestic policy of this country.

The laws which govern immigration concern us, but since when this fact let us have the right to dispute the decisions of a government which we did not elect?

Moreover this government accepts criticism with difficulty; we could note it by reading the newspapers or by looking at the news with television. Whereas comes to make this heap of criticisms which has went too far?

I, also written some severe posts, just like each one here, these laws will certainly oblige me to return in my home-country , to go back there with my family which well on will follow the movement, isn't this goes more touches me has unjust? If, surely, but what can I make there?

A few years ago, my girlfriend had not had the possibility of coming second once at home, because of the restrictive laws of my country at this time... I had been sorrow sad and angry but, even

at home, what could I make there, the law being the law; I could not change what anything.

Then after some reflexion, I said to myself that even very disappointed, even very aggravates by the situation, I couldn’t do a thing changed there!

Then to continue to write against this government which "we" think is bad for this country that we have so much liked, and that we still like, is quite useless.

And I put myself has to think that it would undoubtedly be wiser to continue to live well the moments which remain for us (for certain, or to consider a long term less agitates) Do you really think that the vindication posted here for already a few months has been really useful?

Useful, yes, very egoistically for the small particular case of each one among us that relieves... temporarily!

And then?

What is it worth for?

To give to the Thais who read this forum wrong appreciations of foreigners and make them think that we have misplaced judgment?

You see, after so many lines written in this bad spirit, I feel myself considerably better after having written this.

If you answer this post by saying to me that I am wrong, that bla bla bla…

Well, your opinion belongs to you, I would find simply sad about this arrogance still so alive.

I believe that in many countries, we would not even have the right to express ourselves as we do it here, should we not regard this as a chance?

But are we making of this chance?

We could express ourselves with more measurements on all these subjects, but it of it is nothing, what have we got in mind when we criticized this government?

Should we not be, on the contrary, grateful for the fact that it is still today quite easy to be able to live here, within a framework which satisfies us for reasons which belong to each of one of us?

Dis we loose something on the road?

Yes, undoubtedly... the Thais love the Thais, but the foreigners also love the Thais, and this is not new!

With the risk to repeat me, the Thai people are of nothing responsible for the situation, the people are what

governments want them to be!

Unfortunately, and too often it is with the detriment of the people that the changes are carried out within a nation.

Undoubtedly it is time to take again a more moderate way, where the opinion of each one will be without useless sarcastic remark,

without useless criticism, in short, exchange of people who know that the reserve is sometimes of good tone.

Please don’t think that I write this like a criticism of the whole of the forum, I do include myself as well as everyone here, me also I have been too far in what I could write, and for this reason I wrote these lines.

If sometime, it happens that I feel angry about somethings, I’ll keep it for myself and surely not expose this in the forum.

in fact, I just want to keep in mind that as we are expats, we also are guests of this country, and for this reason, reserve will be my tone from now on.  

posted by francois

18/10/03

[Axel]

Well, one reason why we write in this forum is to get some points across which we feel worthwhile to put in cyberspace. I myself do read most, if not all, posts to see other opinions and ideas. It's nothing else but a discussion with the advantage of having time to formulate what you want to say and to digest reactions before replying. In a sense far more productive than any talks with friends in your favourite pub, where you usually mingle with people close to you and whose ideas you know quite well, not withstanding one's stage of intoxication.

The last word I used on purpose, a similar noun is a crude nick-name for Mr. Thaksin, around for years already. Yes, we are guests here and should show respect to our hosts. But we as well can build our own opinion and relay such back home. The people there or when visiting me, will ask what I think of this or that after having lived here for so long. They want my opinion, not what they read in newspapers or see on TV. My opinion comes from listening, watching and talking. Why not put it in writing, e.g. in this forum. The majority of members shold be non-Thais, but I will not use explecitives for something that can be said differently. And I will use expresions that anybody should be able to accept, maybe not agree to but accept as another opinion. I have no voting rights in Thailand. I have no voting rights in my home country, as there is a law that you lose such if you live abroad for a long period of time. Still I keep my right to express about the politicians there, I say what I think of T, here and yes even of G.W.B., Chirac, Schroeder, Blair, Mahatir or whoever.

"Bashing" is another thing, which comes with "hating". Both used often if people cannot find other arguments and even might agree with someone elses opinion, but for the fact that he is a foreigner.

Maybe Mr. T. is reading in this forum. On the one or other "complain" he might get a positive idea. (I doubt if, of course) So with due reserve to language used, we should express what we think baring in mind that any discussion about politics can become very hot.

In detail here is a mention that the government does not accept criticism. True and worthwhile to think about if you still express your feeling or keep your mouth shut. Does it change anything? Yes and no.

Francois, you mention a situation that your girlfriend could not visit you at home. I became aware of this only recently when reading in this forum, because it does not concern my own situation. Still I was shocked to learn, that anybody from my country can visit Thailand without hassle as tourist, but vice versa it is not possible for Thais to come. Sure this is something that as well can be discussed. It is not fair. Maybe alalong it will come to the right ears.

Open up and post what is on your mind, agreed, no need for strong language, but I never feel offended by another person's opinion.

I said it b4, give Thaksin a chance and still might say, I would have done the one or other thing differently. He will not listen to me, but I feel better to express what I think. I do have have respect for Thailand where you can say what you want to say in a free speech. It does not mean that you have a right to offend somebody.

Last but not least, I read in this forum for 2 months or so and did learn a lot, be this in just technicalities on visas or be it oather people's mind. I saw hot discussions and I saw witty ones. Once I raised my voice when I was getting boring from the same thing repeated all the tiem in another issue.

To close. Open up as you did before, I am sure a lot of people respect you for expressing your mind.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I genuinely think you both put a lot of effort into your contributions. Many points raised by both of you are valid, and I support them. We should not ' advise ' the Government how to run Thailand, and particularly, self interest contributions regarding visa rules are definitely unwelcome from nationals of countries that make life impossible for Thai's wanting to visit those countries. Fair is fair. You both 'opened up' and I was moved. Thanks to you both        

[francois]

I just wanted to add that it took me 2 days, to think and write this post, and then paste it here ...

I really thought about the way we are behaving in this forum, and more generaly in this country, and then thought about the way foreigners, tourists and immigrants are treated in my country and how hard it is to get in  

as you say, fair is fair, I can tell you by experience that it is far to be simple for a Thai national to go abroad for a visit  

are we lucky, certainly, yes!

so, let's keep it cool and let's carry on  :cool:

cheers Dr  ::

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Pleasure Francois...keep contributing....

[Axel]

I just wanted to add that it took me 2 days, to think and write this post, and then paste it here ...

I really thought about the way we are behaving in this forum, and more generaly in this country, and then thought about the way foreigners, tourists and immigrants are treated in my country

It took me over 20 years to explain to my own mother that I am in Thailand (or whereever) nothing else but a foreign labourer, same as so many foreigners working in her country (and mine, of course), sher still does not believe me...

Well, it is not easy. Mind you she does speak no English but gets along with my wife by using hand and mimic.

Dr., nice comments,   ,perhaps one day we do open this "Magnum", btw. it is 5 litres or 5000 ml and Made in France or just 1 litre of cognac or whiskey, but 750 ml is just too small.

Sorry, I am off, tonight is football in Europe...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I know Axel....750 mls is a toothfull      

[dr_Pat_Pong]

but no hangover .....heheheheh  

[Bob Chittie]

I think a lot of the criticism and complaining stems from the fact that years ago many people fell in love with a Thailand that now seems to be slipping away before their eyes.

[sam77]

IMF had been paid off, part of your little contributions are in it

Now, do you have a million bahts for VIP card ?

[Ugots2Believe]

There's truth in what you say, Bob; for sure ! I feel fortunate to have experienced it, and it's highly unlikely the "good old days" will ever return    .

[francois]

true, so tru Bob  

the country I discovered years gone by has nothing to do with what we see today, but still the same pepole are living in, and the "Thai way of life" is still alive, even if we can feel some changes.

the fact is, so many of us panned their life here, and as a sudden ... things truned to be impossible to settle down, because of many different reasons, either financial or simply too difficult or impossible to get the papers in order for a living here, so many reactions are plainly human, I really do understand this, it happens to me  ???

but, in no case we should complain that the country is changing, it is surely changing for reasons that don''t belong to us, we foreigners are not able to judge if it is good for the country or not, some said like a sarcastic prevision "tourism will fail", I don't think so!

Thailand is Thailand, and will always have a lot of visitors,

and new immigration's law won't change anything to this,

they will just get rid of "loosy" visitors and keep "real" tourists, and wealthy expats!

we all complained a lot about this fact, sometime badly  

again .. can we change anything to this?

no! so let's accept things the way they have to be here, it's all what we have left, let's take it cool  :cool:

isn't it the best way?  

[dr_Pat_Pong]

UGOTS    the good old days never return. And sometimes that's good.

[Bob Chittie]

Hi Francois,

At the end of the day you are right and I agree that it is not really the foreigners place to complain about changes in Thailand. But I do think some complaining and whining is only a natural reaction when people become accustomed to certain surroundings and a certain way of life, only to watch everything suddenly change. But that is life. My Great Grandmother used to tell me how wonderful the 20's were. i'm sure it was an exciting time, but those days are long gone. That's the way things go.

[francois]

you are right once gone .. never come back!

as life is, like the wind blows, clouds pass by over our head, we do not even notice it, days are going silently, so are we.

but life is still wondeful, isn't it?