Do You Appreciate When Thai Restaurants "farangatize" Your Food?

[tracer]

Btw, Discovery or NGC had a programme on the other night about Thailand, and part of it was this lady making pla la or however it is spelled.

I thought it was disgusting before seeing how it was made.

Well, I thought it improves the taste of papaya salad...

If you get real Thai food it probably will taste better but they always fiddle with the food so they donot get it back...

Seeing how food id made: try looking at similar programs about farang food: is an eyeopener....

[tracer]

This is actually one of my minor gripes here. It only tends to be in restaurants that I frequent regularly that I get exactly what I order, spice wise. Quite often if I'm ordering a "new" restaurant the waitress will look to my wife for confirmation that I can actually eat "thai style"

Slightly off topic but I've noticed a big variation in the way dishes of the same name are prepared and served.

Correct and it also can reduce the cost as many Thai places have a menu in Thai and one in English and prices are NOT the same in many cases... I eat in a good thai restaurant (qua taste) and a favorite there is the plah duke foo...

A farang likely pays 30 baht more... Mango salad, cashewnuts and various other things which should be in it.

Best way to get over cooking methods is not to go and look...

[monoli87]

it's differ Thai foods taste within every each region....

Thai southern food almost best

[geriatrickid]

I am surprised that I didn't see anyone mention it yet, but over spicing the food hides the taste of poor quality or "off" ingredients. Despite the howls of protest that will follow on my next observation, I believe there are many Thais that do not smother their food with chili. Not everyone has missing taste buds. There are plenty of people that allow the nuances and the flavours to highlight the dishes and that use the chili and pepper as a way to accent those flavours. Yea, yea, what do I know

If a restaurant goes easy on the chili when farangs are is in the house, then it's probably because too many previous farang clients have complained about the spice levels. C'mon, you have all seen them when you have gone out for a meal.

It's much easier to add the chilis to one's taste level then it is to remove them from a dish. Personally, I appreciate the thoughtfulness and am grateful someone takes into account that I do not covet burning bum syndrome or an inflamed mouth.

[Ijustwannateach]

This only happens to me when I am in the 'tourist zone'- otherwise I get the same food that everyone else does.

[tracer]

This is actually one of my minor gripes here. It only tends to be in restaurants that I frequent regularly that I get exactly what I order, spice wise. Quite often if I'm ordering a "new" restaurant the waitress will look to my wife for confirmation that I can actually eat "thai style"

Slightly off topic but I've noticed a big variation in the way dishes of the same name are prepared and served.

Correct and it also can reduce the cost as many Thai places have a menu in Thai and one in English and prices are NOT the same in many cases... I eat in a good thai restaurant (qua taste) and a favorite there is the plah duke foo...

A farang likely pays 30 baht more... Mango salad, cashewnuts and various other things which should be in it.

Best way to get over cooking methods is not to go and look...

[tracer]

Well...is there a middle ground? Literally.

Phet = spicy. Got that. Certainly works!

Mai phet = not spicy. Got that.

But what's "in the middle"?

Phet nit noi. Prik neung/song works for me.

For those who want it spicy and can handle it, like I did in Singapore when working there and eating with colleagues (Singaporeans), we also had a similar problems but normally as I was hungry the bowl with chilies was finished before I had my food. Surprised people but it wasn't really hot. What I did here locally in my favorite restaurant was different, I took a pot with sambal (Indonesian pepper paste) to the restaurant and let the cook taste it. Never had a problem anymore...

[MiG16]

........... when I want Thai food I want it to be like Thais eat it.

ermmm, the above sentence helps me to answer all remarks better

every Thai has different taste and different tolerance level for spiciness. some Thais eat their food really really hot, some eat their spicy dishes at a mild level, while others cant tolerate it at all.

add to that the different food in different regions. Isaan and southern food for instance - can be VERY VERY hot. much more than the spicy central Thai curries.

I once went to an Isaan place overseas with a couple of Thai friends. I can take spicy food, I would say on the higher than average side. We ordered the som-tam. my friend raved about it, while I thought there was no taste to it apart from chilli. perhaps the above distorted taste by some thais has led some foreigners to assume Thai food has to come in EXTREMELY hot taste for it to be authentic?

funnily, at least when you visit restaurants overseas, foreigners never hear about let alone have tried dishes like:

'kaeng jued' - literally translates to 'bland curry/soup'

anyhow, I know the above variety in dishes is not what JT is referring to.

but in terms of what was raised by JT, given the different tolerance levels, thats why we have things like ground chilli, or 'prik nam pla'. my brother likes his food really hot, so he will scoop out the fresh chillies from the 'prink nam pla' and add to his food.

if you request for ground chili or 'prik nam pla' once they have brought your meal, hopefully next time they will remember and make your food more spicy

bon appetit

[Samuian]

Only the real thing - with a few exceptions of certain ingredients and things I do not consider proper food.

But still I think some Chef's do a great deal in "Fusion Food", but then this is NOT Thai food, as I consider Noodle soup from road side stalls, Hainan Chicken (Chicken on Rice, Kao Man Gai) and "Pork on Rce" - (Kao Kaa Moo) "American fried Rice" NOT Thai!

What is sometimes dished out as "pat Thai" and munched down by the unwary tourist, would make any Thai either cry or yell for HELP!

"All Thai Food" is too spicy is a fable, by the feeble!

Edited November 11, 2009 by Samuian

[tracer]

First and primarily: Choose a non touristic restaurant, popular with Thais.

Second: Order food by saying baaep thai jing jing. If you like spicy: baaep thai jing jing, pet maak maak. You can also say expressively : Mai pet jing jing, mai gin jing jing.

Note: Thai restaurants cooking really delicious Thai food are actually not everywhere easy to find. So maybe if you are disappointed, Thais are disappointed too, but they don't complain about that in the restaurant.

A funny thing is that some restaurants (assuming its worth the name) have this year much less customers but main reason for that is that most of the ladies they met KNOW where to eat and they obviously select a good tasting Thai restaurant. But if the boyfriend or whatever is a foreigner it saves them money. In my case the restaurant I have known as long as it exists and a big bottle of Chang is 60 baht (for a Thai its funnily more expensive!)But when I took some ladies the Pah duk foo they liked it but when I took papaya salad their favorite place was next door to where they worked and it tasted better thanks to the pla Jaa...

[Jingthing]

About the issue of adding chilies on the side as an OPTION. That is the standard for some dishes, mainly noodle soups, pad Thai, etc. However, for other dishes the flavor of the dish is quite different when you COOK in the chilies vs. throwing them on top (and also consider the other herbs and spices which you can't just throw in after cooking). It depends on the dish. Of course not all Thai dishes are hot, spicy, or hot and spicy, I would just like the dishes cooked the same for me as for a generic Thai if no mention is made of spice or adjustments made for me for a call of phet the same as for a generic Thai (all depending on how a particular cook makes a particular dish). In practice, that is quite often too much to ask.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[MiG16]

my point was - how do you know they made that adjustment just for farangs?

maybe each shop cook their food to different level of spicyness, regardless of who the clientele is?

[Jingthing]

my point was - how do you know they made that adjustment just for farangs?

maybe each shop cook their food to different level of spicyness, regardless of who the clientele is?

The level of evidence required for such common sense observations does not need to get to the level of evidence for a court trial. Sometimes it is super obvious (you ask for phet phet and you get mai phet) and sometimes it is more ambiguous.

[Samuian]

my point was - how do you know they made that adjustment just for farangs?

maybe each shop cook their food to different level of spicyness, regardless of who the clientele is?

My example was

"What is sometimes dished out as "Pat Thai" and munched down by the unwary tourist, would make any Thai either cry or yell for HELP!

ANY Thai served this "fried noodles"something dish, would pay and go... or maybe politely ask "what is this?"

Simply because "Pat Thai" isn't exactly "fried Noodles", or anything close to Bami Goreng... it has it's specially prepared sauce,

a sliver of banana flower, lime wedge, spring onions, bean sprouts, peanuts (crushed), dried shrimp, fried tofu, egg and usually chicken, shrimp.

Sometimes it's served "sai hor" in a thin egg omelet wrapper

[Kitsch22]

Most contributors here are referring simply to the number of prik khii nuu to be found in their dish.

Nope, there is more to cooking food Thai style than throwing in a bunch of prik ki nu although of course I like that when it fits with the specific dish.

I am not interested with arguing with people who think we don't have a right to complain about certain things here. I don't care if you call it whining, that kind of talk just stifles free speech.

For me, I am grateful if a Thai makes allowances for the fact that I am farang. If I want him to pretend that I am not, then I tell him so.

What does your race have to do with your palate? People that live here and many that visit love actual Thai food exactly as Thai people eat it. Sure its OK to change it IF we ask for it. If we don't and the food is changed based on race, the intention may be polite (probably more CYA) but the result is anything but polite.

Another point, the naive tourists who really don't know. Say they take a trip here and are never exposed to real Thai food in Thailand. Perhaps they would have loved it. I feel such "protection" of people actually cheats them of the experience they traveled around the world for. Yes, many don't want the real thing, but many don't even know what they don't want, they might like it if exposed to it.

BTW, I don't like all Thai food. I don't like insects, pork blood in soup, rats, fermented fish paste for som tam, and black crab for som tam. I simply avoid those dishes.

For some reason the TV software will not allow me to respond individually to your separate paragraphs so I must put it all together here.

Your right to free speech is exactly the same as mine. You are free to whinge and I am free to observe that you are whingeing and that the whinge is in my view unjustified and disproportionate. And of course you are equally free to decide to converse only with people who share your views. A tedious position, to be sure, but yes, you are free to choose it.

The sensitivity of my palate is very largely a product of my culture and upbringing which features are, of course, for me like most others closely related to my ethnic origin. Believe it or not there is a respectable and valid reason why Thai restaurant owners use this kind of profiling to predict what their farang customers will want. Disappointing though you may find it, they do not do it with the express purpose to cheat and offend you.

But it's okay, is it not? It should work out well for you. If you patronise only those restaurants that treat you as though you were a Thai, you will be spared the ordeal of mixing with those horrible hoi polloi farang who do not really know what they want. A true win-win situation.

[Jingthing]

Believe it or not there is a respectable and valid reason why Thai restaurant owners use this kind of profiling to predict what their farang customers will want. Disappointing though you may find it, they do not do it with the express purpose to cheat and offend you.

But it's okay, is it not? It should work out well for you. If you patronise only those restaurants that treat you as though you were a Thai, you will be spared the ordeal of mixing with those horrible hoi polloi farang who do not really know what they want. A true win-win situation.

I never said their intention was cheating or offending. Rather clearly the intention is CYA (to avoid complaints from people who can't eat the food as served), and to be polite, because they think they are doing us a favor. The intention and the RESULT are not the same thing. Look at the poll results. Again, this "treat you as Thai" is a red herring of your own construction. I just don't appreciate racial profiling at restaurants, and again, look at the poll results, I am not alone. So for the sake of a false stereotype based on a minority including you, the rest of us should be forced to often waste our money on substandard food? Shouldn't it be your spice phobic lot who should have to ask explicitly NOT SPICY and let the rest of us get the same food as the cooks would normally cook? Treat you as Thai, give me a break. Here we are in THAILAND, going to a THAI restaurant, wouldn't the baseline expectation that we are going to actually get THAI food? I am not asking to be inducted into the Thai military or to be undergo a monk's session, just looking for Thai food in Thailand. And according to you, that is unreasonable. No, it is not.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[Samuian]

I just don't appreciate racial profiling at restaurants, and again, look at the poll results, I am not alone.

Quote from Jingthing...

Certainly you arent alone!

I feel even a bit robbed of a culinary pleasure and patronizing or even infantilising me on their behalf, instead of politely asking: "you like it thai/original/hot/spicy/same,same?"!

There are ways to communicate, sure it is done out of trying to be over-polite, but the result ids the opposite!

[Ulysses G.]

The problem is that most farangs demand "real" Thai food and then cry like babies when they get it and want a free replacement dish that they can stomach even though they had to have the real thing. Thai restaurant owners know this and tone it down so they don't have to give freebies to rich whinging farangs.

[Tonto21]

I don't appreciate personal attacks from posters

You dont?

Now how do i go back and delete all those posts JT?

Dam!!!! There go’s most of my act! Some say my best work!

[NaiGreg]

just remember three phrases ... works anywhere in the world.

"gin phet daai" ... I can eat spicy [like Thais do] ... (this is the best response because this is what young Thais say to waiters when they don't want to be treated/served like a child)

"tam ahaan baap thai" make it Thai style

For som tam without fermented crabs ... "mai sai bpuu" don't add crab

of course, don't forget to tack on the obligatory polite particles at the end of the sentence.

[Jingthing]

The problem is that most farangs demand "real" Thai food and then cry like babies when they get it and want a free replacement dish that they can stomach even though they had to have the real thing. Thai restaurant owners know this and tone it down so they don't have to give freebies to rich whinging farangs.

I do not believe that! Those of us that ask for the real deal do not send the food back even if we are crying and sweating buckets! Really, you are wrong about this. That is NOT the reason. I am not saying that never happens but frankly I have never witnessed that, ever, where someone explicitly asked for Thai style food and then sent it back. I agree that would be wrong to do if you asked for it that way. I am sure, however, that it may distress Thais to see farangs getting red and sweating from eating their food, but that is not the same thing as sending it back.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[bifftastic]

The problem is that most farangs demand "real" Thai food and then cry like babies when they get it and want a free replacement dish that they can stomach even though they had to have the real thing. Thai restaurant owners know this and tone it down so they don't have to give freebies to rich whinging farangs.

I do not believe that! Those of us that ask for the real deal do not send the food back even if we are crying and sweating buckets! Really, you are wrong about this. That is NOT the reason.

Me neither, really hot/spicy food is supposed to make you sweat/nose run etc. I've eaten it for years (about 20) and it always does the same, I know this when I order it, why would I complain when it does what I expect it to do???

P.S. I don't go for the 'full burn' every time, some dishes don't completely blow me away but i do like it from time to time. (great if you feel a cold coming on)

[Kitsch22]

Believe it or not there is a respectable and valid reason why Thai restaurant owners use this kind of profiling to predict what their farang customers will want. Disappointing though you may find it, they do not do it with the express purpose to cheat and offend you.

But it's okay, is it not? It should work out well for you. If you patronise only those restaurants that treat you as though you were a Thai, you will be spared the ordeal of mixing with those horrible hoi polloi farang who do not really know what they want. A true win-win situation.

I never said their intention was cheating or offending. Rather clearly the intention is CYA (to avoid complaints from people who can't eat the food as served), and to be polite, because they think they are doing us a favor. The intention and the RESULT are not the same thing. Look at the poll results. Again, this "treat you as Thai" is a red herring of your own construction. I just don't appreciate racial profiling at restaurants, and again, look at the poll results, I am not alone. So for the sake of a false stereotype based on a minority including you, the rest of us should be forced to often waste our money on substandard food? Shouldn't it be your spice phobic lot who should have to ask explicitly NOT SPICY and let the rest of us get the same food as the cooks would normally cook? Treat you as Thai, give me a break. Here we are in THAILAND, going to a THAI restaurant, wouldn't the baseline expectation that we are going to actually get THAI food? I am not asking to be inducted into the Thai military or to be undergo a monk's session, just looking for Thai food in Thailand. And according to you, that is unreasonable. No, it is not.

Can you not accept that as an expat you are an atypical customer in most restaurants in Thailand? For the vast majority of farang customers the racial profiling is highly beneficial - maybe essential.

Now you say that you don't want to be treated as though a Thai - in that case what did you mean when you said you wanted: "the real deal food even when I clearly ask for it in Thai"? If they must not treat you as a farang nor as a Thai, how on earth are they to know just what 'the real deal' is supposed to be?

You feel cheated by honest attempts to help you and offended because someone takes an informed guess at what your tastes might possibly be. May we take it in similar vein that you regard the refuse collectors as having robbed you when they call?

The level of support that you have received here in TV is perhaps the most compelling proof possible that you are indeed whingeing about all of this. In fact I would say that you have shown yourself to be an exceptionally gifted and assiduous whinger in a very strong field. There is no need for you to feel ashamed about it. Acknowledge what you are. Come out and rejoice in it!

[Jingthing]

OK, that is your opinion. Opinion noted (and duly rejected ). Thank you for sharing.

Cheers!

Edited November 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[klikster]

I think you missed an option. Actually the most courteous one.

I appreciate when they ask me how spicy I want my food. I usually say, "tammada khon Thai".

The next best option, IMO, would be some indication about whether or not the food is tailored for westerners.

For those of you who get angry, fight, scream or otherwise throw a childish tantrum when food doesn't not meet your exact expectations, you really do need help.

[Jingthing]

I think you missed an option. Actually the most courteous one.

I appreciate when they ask me how spicy I want my food. I usually say, "tammada khon Thai".

The next best option, IMO, would be some indication about whether or not the food is tailored for westerners.

For those of you who get angry, fight, scream or otherwise throw a childish tantrum when food doesn't not meet your exact expectations, you really do need help.

Actually if you look how the poll is structured, that option would not be consistent with the other choices. Also, I find your suggestion a little obvious, who wouldn't appreciate that courtesy of being asked how you would like it? Of course, being asked and responding or calling out for your liking doesn't always actually result in getting what you asked for. In other words, sometimes restaurants even when they ask and you tell them STILL make a farang adjustment.

I agree an extreme reaction is not called for. I can't imagine anyone saying that it is (again, how obvious).

That is a different thing than complaining when you explicitly ask for for something and you don't get it. In those cases you are totally justified in sending back the food. That is not the same thing as "get angry, fight, scream or otherwise throw a childish tantrum", now is it? For examples: you ask for very spicy and you get not spicy, or you ask for not spicy and you get very spicy. I personally won't send back things that are not exactly right, but I will in really blatant cases. As I said before, I think over many years it might help if people en masse did at least comment every time they feel they have been served farangatized food without having asked for it, and how they were not happy with the food that way. I am sure most people don't, and if people don't, the false stereotypes will never change at all.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[DP25]

No, I absolutely do not appreciate it when they try to "help" me by not giving me what I ordered. Doesn't happen to me much at the places I usually eat at, but can be a problem sometimes. Very annoying that some people think I can't eat spicy food because of my skin color, when I like it spicier than the majority of Thais.

[MiG16]

next time I head down south, those that want spicy food and not toned down, should come with me

occasionally, even when you have asked them to tone it down, its still almost unmanageable by a few of my farang AND Thai friends

[caf]

OK, that is your opinion. Opinion noted (and duly rejected ). Thank you for sharing.

Cheers!

Glad you know how to use icons. Why not brush up on how to respond to a logical argument.

First rule of TV: Jing Jing is always right

[caf]

I am afraid that this is a whinge for the sake of whingeing if ever I saw one. You are complaining because a subset of restaurant owners in Thailand makes an attempt to cater to the tastes of their target clientele. There is no "irony" here; it is purely a matter of commercial common sense. At a guess I would say that the average proprietor would not give a hoot about the few unusual Western customers desiring a culinary style which, if adopted generally by the establishment, would have the mainstream farang holidaymakers staying away in droves.

Do you really want all your meat on the bone and without the gristle and integument removed, pepped up with a sprinkling of mixed offal?

As an expat, you should have no trouble in avoiding tourist restaurants if you want to avoid tourist restaurants. Or just tell them what you really want when ordering. Even if you find yourself in a location with which you are not personally familiar, just check the menu; if it is all in Thai script with no trace of English then you can be pretty sure that you will get authentic Thai food and that the sighting your big farang nose will not result in automatic bowdlerisation.

As to your strawman analogy of a pizza parlour in the States, I would say: "First show me an American pizza parlour that has its menu written in Thai as well as English."

Yes of course. It is about the target clientele perceived by the business owner. Sound business and common sense to cater for your customer. The 5 star hotels farangize their food because it makes good business sense.

In more middle restaurants why not just ask for the level mof spiciness you want.

Like ordering a steak in the west. Tell them how you like it. They will of course usually ask.

Jingjings polls are either always too black and white or are biased to his own view.