Mia Farang Perceptions

[Meridian007]

Well, no problem for me then as I don't have those expectations. In fact, one of my closest friends is a Thai man with completely opposite political views from myself (at least as pertains to Thaksin and TRT), and I think the main reason I like to hang out with him is that he is very erudite and thoughtful with his arguments (I'm not surprised, he is a journalist), and I have to really keep on my toes to argue with him.

I'd say that in general I probably have more male Thai friends than female, I think again that it is a gender issue rather than a cultural one. My point had nothing to do with that doctor's interest in me, but with how he had to categorize my girlfriend to make our being a couple fit in to his world view. Did I imagine it? Maybe, I can't see into his head, (as your other post presumed), but as I said, body language and tone of voice as well as how something is said carries a lot of meaning in communication. I really don't think I was misunderstanding his implied meanings, (also as evidenced by the reactions of other people around us), but it is possible.

I am definitely not anti-Thai, I wouldn't have lived here this long if I was. I was merely giving this experience as an example to back up the findings in the .pdf that the OP provided us with. I understand the issues of direct and indirect racism that happen anywhere in the world for what they are, cases of judging based on limited information (and sadly, many of the experiences that Thai people gain their information from about foreigners are negative). Do all Thai men have this perception of Thai women who date or marry foreigners? No, but on a lighter level, most that I have met (including the men who are now friends of mine) are surprised to see a woman with a professional career with a foreign man. How many of them do assign a negative value to it? I think Khun Sirijit's study can explain that better than I can.

[MiG16]

That goes against the idea that " money is everything in Thailand " that people always talk about.

Im not going to be naive and say money is not important. everyone would like to have luxuries in life, or at the very least financial security.

but again, everyone has different levels of what they consider 'luxurious', or how security is secure. add to that different principles, morality, PLUS how much societal pressure ie. how much they feel the need to conform to these pressures and expectations.

money is important, but it is NOT everything

[Heng]

No, but on a lighter level, most that I have met (including the men who are now friends of mine) are surprised to see a woman with a professional career with a foreign man. How many of them do assign a negative value to it?

Being surprised is the norm when you find something that bucks the trend. Can't say I've had much experience with myself or observing other folks assigning a negative value to it.

Note I'm not saying that there aren't regular couples out there, but it's common sense and pure unbiased observation that they will likely always be completely outnumbered by the stereotypical farang-Thai relationship. It's a minorities playing hockey type of thing.

[Meridian007]

Very true! This is why, as you said, that Maigo6 gets to re-use his comments.

It has been rare that we've encountered negative responses, I think the ones that effect me the most are the assumptions that I hear her mother make about me. She has it harder I think in many ways, because of the confusion caused just by her decision to be with me, usually paints her in a different light to people. With me, there is an assumption that I have a Thai girlfriend (therefore no difference in categorization), what causes confusion is her career.

Oh well, it's things like this that keep life interesting!

[mca]

No, but on a lighter level, most that I have met (including the men who are now friends of mine) are surprised to see a woman with a professional career with a foreign man. How many of them do assign a negative value to it?

Being surprised is the norm when you find something that bucks the trend. Can't say I've had much experience with myself or observing other folks assigning a negative value to it.

Note I'm not saying that there aren't regular couples out there, but it's common sense and pure unbiased observation that they will likely always be completely outnumbered by the stereotypical farang-Thai relationship. It's a minorities playing hockey type of thing.

Exactly. At 3 separate visa extensions with my wife in attendance she's been told "He has to bring his wife with him." The latest being a few weeks ago at the new Khon Kaen immi.

Double takes when my wife says "I am his wife'

Now despite my loving family man and easy going personality I'll be the first to admit that I look like a retired football hooligan.

And speaking perfectly frankly my wife (same age as me early 40's works as financial director in KK) looks the complete opposite of what the stereotypical westerner's wife is supposed to look like.

I'm sticking my neck out to be chopped off here but I came to LOS 15 years ago as a management trainee for one of the mega big hotel chains. I've never been near Nana, Pattaya, Soi Cowboy etc. I've never gone down that route and found a wife/gf as so many westerners do (and anybody who says otherwise is a fool in my humble opinion). The only Thais i mixed with socially were ones from the equivalent social background as myself. That's just how it was. Nothing snobbish about it.

My wife's from Isaan sure. And so are some of the richest people I've ever ran into in my life. We're talking not one, not two but three new S-Class Benzes for the family and 20 million baht donations to temples like you and me buy a new pair of flip flops. Foreigner with Isaan wife? Poor Isaan farmer? Stereotype to the max and ther's a lot of truth in it. But some don't fit the mold.

A pal of mine was Chinese back home. Nobody messed with him because they thought he must have at least some rudimentary knowledge of Kung <deleted>.

Soft <deleted> couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag.

Edited November 12, 2009 by mca

[YoungNRich12]

The two examples you gave to illustrate your point about well educated Thai people not accepting interracial relationships had you mind reading every individual involved:

-The meaning behind the body language of the other Thai people witnessing the conversation you believed you observed.

-The reasons behind the doctor's desire to classify a fellow doctor by her skin color to fit his world view of your relationship with her.

-Your current gf's parents not wanting to meet you because they are afraid that despite the photos they were shown, that you are really an old pensioner.

Both examples were totally bizarre. But in your last post you say that you have only rarely experienced this sort of thing and that you have more Thai male friends than female friends, so now I can only assume I am talking to a schizophrenic. I much prefer to make fun of people who stick to their ludicrous positions more rigorously, not flip flop three posts later.

Edited November 12, 2009 by YoungNRich12

[Meridian007]

I said men, not all men. I said it was rare that I got a negative response, but that there was surprise from most (as Heng said, more to do with something that bucks the trend).

You seem to want to read my mind as hating (Thai men? educated Thai people? I'm not sure which you mean!). I have seen many hateful posts on tv, if you believe I hate something based on what was posted in this thread, you are a better mindreader than any I've seen.

No problem, as you said, you're looking to make fun of people. That is your choice as a member here, I hope someone finds it useful! Enjoy!

[Meridian007]

... you are a better mindreader than any I've seen.

It should read "you must think you are a better mindreader than any I've seen." I certainly didn't mean to imply that he was correct! :D

[Thai at Heart]

Funny event in a small Thai embassy in Europe trying to get my daughter's birth registered for a Thai passport.

After regaling us with stories of parties in the US and transfers to the UK and Germany, the old dear behind the desk (who was obviously off to a gilded retirement courtesy of the Thai government) proceeded to look at the documents we had provided.

At which point she passed the application form to my wife, peered down her nose with her spectacles balanced on them and asked in Thai to my wife "You can read and write can't you?"

To which my wife answered, "Do I complete it in French, English or Thai. You can read all of those can't you?"

[Heng]

No doubt she was surprised, but it doesn't change that there is a large number of mia farang who can't watch movies that aren't dubbed in Thai because they can't keep up with the subtitles, or who use their right thumb print instead of a signature because they don't know how to write their name. And that overall, they hugely outnumber the doctors, lawyers, astrophysicists, etc. in their own mia farang demographic like they do in the general population.

And no bias there, as they are drawn from the same pool who are also regular everyday folks who share the same trait. Just my opinion, but I think the official literacy rates are inflated to look more positive.

[YoungNRich12]

Any trip to any foreign embassy in Thailand always comes along with seeing a farang and sometimes his partner in a heated argument with the clerk who is simply following the rules handed down to her. Despite the common misplaced jealousy, it is a hardly some sort of desirable, carefree feet-in-the-air job position. There isn't even any viable opportunity for tea money. Imaging having to explain the same rules over and over again to people who view you with absolute contempt because even the simplest procedures prove difficult for these individuals.

Farang: "So what if she over stayed on with her last trip with her other fiance? What does that have to do with me? She told you already, shee missed her flight so she had to overstay - What's that? - Oh, her cousin was also sick so she could not leave - Huh? - And, her friend Nok, do you know her?, has a friend, Ping, who has a sister, Jan, who worked in the Thai Embassy in Paris who told her that it was okay because she was sick - What's that? I dunno. Maybe ten more minutes. Can't you wait? I don't know where the bathroom is."

"Ms. Supong cannot apply for a visa for five years because she over stayed previously. Sorry."

"What's a Seapond?"

"That is your girl friend's name"

[bonobo]

Many posters tend to post "all Thais this" or "all women that" or "all men this."  Life is not so black and white, in my view.

I know of a young Thai woman from a somewhat poor, but not impoverished, background whose mother pressured her into giving up her Thai boyfriend.  Her mother wanted her to have a white foreign boyfriend/husband instead.  So in this case, at least, not everyone looks down on a foreign/Thai relationship.  

[bkkjames]

Many posters tend to post "all Thais this" or "all women that" or "all men this."  Life is not so black and white, in my view.

I know of a young Thai woman from a somewhat poor, but not impoverished, background whose mother pressured her into giving up her Thai boyfriend.  Her mother wanted her to have a white foreign boyfriend/husband instead.  So in this case, at least, not everyone looks down on a foreign/Thai relationship.  

But apparently with the example you gave, at least one is 'really looking forward to its potential upside'.

Edited November 13, 2009 by bkkjames

[YoungNRich12]

That sounds more like a sacrifice than positive acceptance. People do things for money, it does not mean that they view these things as being good.

[bonobo]

That sounds more like a sacrifice than positive acceptance. People do things for money, it does not mean that they view these things as being good.

We can guess at her motivation, but the bottom line is that the mother obviously thinks there is something good about it.

My friend who experienced this told me he was told that the mother thought western men did not fool around and made better husbands.

[Birdman]

That sounds more like a sacrifice than positive acceptance. People do things for money, it does not mean that they view these things as being good.

We can guess at her motivation, but the bottom line is that the mother obviously thinks there is something good about it.

One mother's gain is a white man's pain.

[wintermute]

Many posters tend to post "all Thais this" or "all women that" or "all men this." Life is not so black and white, in my view.

I know of a young Thai woman from a somewhat poor, but not impoverished, background whose mother pressured her into giving up her Thai boyfriend. Her mother wanted her to have a white foreign boyfriend/husband instead. So in this case, at least, not everyone looks down on a foreign/Thai relationship.

So the mother is pimping her out?

[merck]

What can he do where there is an endless line of folks who continue to set up his repeated punchlines?

I logged on for the first time in ages just to say this.

You have been using the same joke for years, over and over, does it not EVER get boring? Have you no life outside waiting for an opportunity to say the same thing yet again on these forums?

Just wear your ThaiVisa polo shirt.

People will know that your relationship is real, you're obviously a wealthy professional and the missus is a Thai Chinese astrophysicist from the elite end of the society whom you met at the gates of Harvard University

No looks of disapproval, only wais and people falling over themselves to help you.

ThaiVisa shirt : Never leave home without it.

It's not Thailand that you love or hate, it's your own life and what you have done with it that you love or hate. ( Heng )

er...he could try a new joke. Or a new signature for that matter.

Or get a life maybe.

[mahtin]

Just wear your ThaiVisa polo shirt.

People will know that your relationship is real, you're obviously a wealthy professional and the missus is a Thai Chinese astrophysicist from the elite end of the society whom you met at the gates of Harvard University

No looks of disapproval, only wais and people falling over themselves to help you.

ThaiVisa shirt : Never leave home without it.

I'll take seven - assuming they are day-of-the-week colour-coded so that I can blend in with the real Thais

[Heng]

What can he do where there is an endless line of folks who continue to set up his repeated punchlines?

I logged on for the first time in ages just to say this.

You have been using the same joke for years, over and over, does it not EVER get boring? Have you no life outside waiting for an opportunity to say the same thing yet again on these forums?

Just wear your ThaiVisa polo shirt.

People will know that your relationship is real, you're obviously a wealthy professional and the missus is a Thai Chinese astrophysicist from the elite end of the society whom you met at the gates of Harvard University

No looks of disapproval, only wais and people falling over themselves to help you.

ThaiVisa shirt : Never leave home without it.

It's not Thailand that you love or hate, it's your own life and what you have done with it that you love or hate. ( Heng )

er...he could try a new joke. Or a new signature for that matter.

Or get a life maybe.

^ Now there's a classic signature in the making if I've ever seen one. Balanced, clever, and clearly understood by anyone aged 12 or over. Maybe add a body slam finale like 'I know you are but what am I?'

[YoungNRich12]

No pink TV polo? What do I wear on Tuesday?

Edited November 14, 2009 by YoungNRich12

[sbk]

That sounds more like a sacrifice than positive acceptance. People do things for money, it does not mean that they view these things as being good.

We can guess at her motivation, but the bottom line is that the mother obviously thinks there is something good about it.

My friend who experienced this told me he was told that the mother thought western men did not fool around and made better husbands.

How is this different than arranged marriages between Thais? I know a few Thai people who are in arranged marriages, including one who got married about 5 years ago. Usually its because the families feel that the union will be beneficial, usually financially or socially.

[bonobo]

That sounds more like a sacrifice than positive acceptance. People do things for money, it does not mean that they view these things as being good.

We can guess at her motivation, but the bottom line is that the mother obviously thinks there is something good about it.

My friend who experienced this told me he was told that the mother thought western men did not fool around and made better husbands.

How is this different than arranged marriages between Thais? I know a few Thai people who are in arranged marriages, including one who got married about 5 years ago. Usually its because the families feel that the union will be beneficial, usually financially or socially.

Except in this case, the woman rebelled, left my friend, ran away, and married her Thai love!  

(Good for her, too.  In retrospect, even my friend agreed with that.)

[YoungNRich12]

Did this rebellion take place right after the sin sot was presented?

[YoungNRich12]

That sounds more like a sacrifice than positive acceptance. People do things for money, it does not mean that they view these things as being good.

We can guess at her motivation, but the bottom line is that the mother obviously thinks there is something good about it.

My friend who experienced this told me he was told that the mother thought western men did not fool around and made better husbands.

How is this different than arranged marriages between Thais? I know a few Thai people who are in arranged marriages, including one who got married about 5 years ago. Usually its because the families feel that the union will be beneficial, usually financially or socially.

When the partners are mismatched, its more likely that the female is being traded as a commodity. Surely, you can see the difference between a marriage arranged between two 25 year old neighbors and a 25 year old and a 65 year old from another country.

[thailies]

Just wear your ThaiVisa polo shirt.

People will know that your relationship is real, you're obviously a wealthy professional and the missus is a Thai Chinese astrophysicist from the elite end of the society whom you met at the gates of Harvard University

No looks of disapproval, only wais and people falling over themselves to help you.

ThaiVisa shirt : Never leave home without it.

Maigo married a nice lady from Pattaya