Thaksins Audio Recording Of Interview Requested

[ballpoint]

This interview will shortly be available on CD at a Nonthaburi bus stop.

If Thaksin has nothing to fear from it, then why is he quoted in the Nation as saying he regrets saying some of the things he said, and wants to bang his head against the floor when he thinks back to it? Please, Mr Thaksin, go ahead. Maybe it's a reaction you've used in the past and that's how it got to be the shape it is?

[Old Man River]

That's the magic in the LM laws. And the trial is behind closed doors.

To be honest, that's why it's so noteworthy that the transcript is out there. Usually the evidence is "someone allegedly saying 'something'" and what was said exactly never surfaces, then the trial is behind closed doors, and you only hear the end result that a person is sentenced to jail for 18 years. (I'm not making this up in case anyone wonders, PM me for references)

In this case the evidence is in front of all of us. It will be VERY hard to prosecute that with a straight face; the evidence is out there, and it's in English even! This one cannot be covered up if they're pursuing it.

Note that Abhisit himself has been very careful about what he has said on this. I think he asked for clarification. Of course others in the government havent been quite so measured in response. However, to date the only LM charge brought has come form outside government. I suspect the government apart from requesting the tape dont really need to push this one as others will do that and also every time the other sdie play a defence it still attracts people with the "what did he really say reaction". I also suspect there will be several versions of what was said out there as word spreads. True the technical LM case is very difficult from an international perspective but I suspect the local political import of this will play out on a very different playing field.

We totally agree on this. Some don't understand the way politics is played around the world and somehow expect it to be played differently in Thailand because...well, I have no idea why they expect politics to be different in Thailand. It is the same.

The government have been very smart on this. While they have banned the article (although it is available if you look for it), they are creating an interest for local Thais to wonder what did Thaksin say against the monarchy? It doesn't matter whether he actually did, as long as local voters who can't get access to the interview are left wondering if he did. This question in their minds is important when you couple it with his known sell out to the Cambodians.

[caf]

As long as the Thai government recognizes and respects the fact the interview in each of its aspects, to include the voice recording, are the property of the TimesOnline, I wouldn't see its release to a foreign government causing any harm to freedom of press or speech in Western terms.

If the TimesOnline might be concerned the interview might be used, or is likely to be used to jeopardize the interviewee under the laws of a censoring government, then I'd expect the Times justifiably to have serious reservations about releasing the voce transcript to any such government.

A news organization has an obligation to protect those private citizens who agree to speak to it, otherwise who would agree to interviews or any contact with the news organization?

I can't see The Times' corporate counsel allowing them to release the tapes under any circumstance. However, in a show of good faith, they may agree to allow a representative of the Thai government to listen to them, but that is as far as they would go.

I think that's an extreemly good point, omr

No-one could agrue with that. One assumes the Times would insist on nothing being taken out of context and quotes allowed only in full.

[rsy]

What Thaksin said was innuendo and implication-' The Privy councillors said that....'

Obviously we cannot go into detail here but his comparisons of the people's 'love' for him and the people's love for the King was highly inappropriate, as well as some of the words he used in replying about what advice he would give the King.

A lot of lies as usual, implying he was a country boy(ie poor) when his own family were well established and he married a deputy national policeman's daughter.

He also claimed he hadn't seen Potjaman since the divorce, really?

I'm sick of his lies.

Ready for even more lies?

Thaksin has repeatedly denied ever traveling to Cambodia since fleeing a criminal corruption conviction in August 2008 (until yesterday).

Shawn Crispin's article today reveals that there's evidence that while Bangkok was burning in April of this year from his revolution, Thaksin was on a golf course in Siem Riep.

[helvetian]

Ready for even more lies?

Thaksin has repeatedly denied ever traveling to Cambodia since fleeing a criminal corruption conviction in August 2008 (until yesterday).

Shawn Crispin's article today reveals that there's evidence that while Bangkok was burning in April of this year from his revolution, Thaksin was on a golf course in Siem Riep.

Shawn Crispin, who worked as a speechwriter for Abhisit's father.

Can we say ...BIASED?

Edited November 11, 2009 by helvetian

[A_Traveller]

^ Speechwriter to the President of Mahidol University. By the by, I've been told about the pictures too, but since I've not been there I can't confirm 'with my own eyes'.

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited November 11, 2009 by A_Traveller

[Methuselah]

Concerning Mr Thaksin,it seems timely to quote Henry Kissinger's remark:"Absence of power corrupts,and absolute absence of power corrupts absolutely."

[colinscarr]

Thailand is greatest country in whole world.

I hope Thai government crush the Times Online.

Why do you want the Thai government to shoot the messenger?

[stuandchris]

Oh come on guys,

If anything is about any country you don't have to ask for the tape, they already have it.

It is online for god's sake

[animatic]

Concerning Mr Thaksin,it seems timely to quote Henry Kissinger's remark:"Absence of power corrupts,and absolute absence of power corrupts absolutely."

SMILE!

perfectly placed and historically juxtaposed comment.

If there is nothing said incorrect then there is no reason a listen to original souces can't be proper.

If there is something said that CAN be actionable in Thailand, then some more circumspection

by the ~TIMES ONLINE and it's lawyers could be expected, but chances are;

only a stall to build readership, and then release and a BIGGER story after a time.

[MaiChai]

Ok, who is likely to be lieing? The Times or Taksin? (on the basis of past experiences). You can always try the Google cached version

[Publicus]

That's the magic in the LM laws. And the trial is behind closed doors.

To be honest, that's why it's so noteworthy that the transcript is out there. Usually the evidence is "someone allegedly saying 'something'" and what was said exactly never surfaces, then the trial is behind closed doors, and you only hear the end result that a person is sentenced to jail for 18 years. (I'm not making this up in case anyone wonders, PM me for references)

In this case the evidence is in front of all of us. It will be VERY hard to prosecute that with a straight face; the evidence is out there, and it's in English even! This one cannot be covered up if they're pursuing it.

Note that Abhisit himself has been very careful about what he has said on this. I think he asked for clarification. Of course others in the government havent been quite so measured in response. However, to date the only LM charge brought has come form outside government. I suspect the government apart from requesting the tape dont really need to push this one as others will do that and also every time the other sdie play a defence it still attracts people with the "what did he really say reaction". I also suspect there will be several versions of what was said out there as word spreads. True the technical LM case is very difficult from an international perspective but I suspect the local political import of this will play out on a very different playing field.

We totally agree on this. Some don't understand the way politics is played around the world and somehow expect it to be played differently in Thailand because...well, I have no idea why they expect politics to be different in Thailand. It is the same.

The government have been very smart on this. While they have banned the article (although it is available if you look for it), they are creating an interest for local Thais to wonder what did Thaksin say against the monarchy? It doesn't matter whether he actually did, as long as local voters who can't get access to the interview are left wondering if he did. This question in their minds is important when you couple it with his known sell out to the Cambodians.

And the yellows know who and what they represent, defend, protect while the reds for the most part know the same about the yellows. There's a lot in the public square as it were about Thaksin, his feelings and ambitions after his period in public life to cause many Thais to be receptive of the reports concerning the Times interview.

Anyone who reads the interview would either recognize Thaksin's sentiments or be introduced to same. Indeed, Thaksin in the interview consciously and determinedly has brought the conflicts of the past ten years to a new dimension and plateau with a new focus openly on the future. Now Thaksin in Cambodia means two sharks are circling.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Publicus

[webfact]

TIMES

Ambassador clears points for the Times

By The Nation

Published on November 12, 2009

Ambassador clears points for the Times

Thailand's ambassador to London sent a letter yesterday to The Times newspaper pointing out its article based on an interview with fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra contained misinformation and misunderstandings about the role of the monarchy as well as Thaksin's status.

The letter from ambassador Kitti Wasinondh was published on the paper's website along with Thaksin's letter signed from Phnom Penh. Thaksin said he was loyal to the royal family and had been discredited by political enemies.

The letter from Kitti to James Harding, the newspaper's editor said, "according to the Thai Constitution, the King is above politics and does not take sides. Over the years, His Majesty has kept to his constitutional role, even while some groups have claimed royal support for their political ends".

Kitti said Thaksin had not formally submitted a petition for a royal pardon according to procedure. Therefore, the legal process of seeking a royal pardon for him could not begin.

Kitti also clarified Thaksin's current status: "Dr Shinawatra is neither Thailand's current opposition leader nor a leader in exile, but a person who is choosing to stay abroad to avoid a two-year jail term resulting from a finalised corruption case," his letter said.

On Tuesday, The Times published another article on the Thai government's ban on the Web page carrying the Thaksin interview.

It also defended its transcript: "Mr Thaksin issued a statement saying The Times' report was 'distorted' and 'untrue'. The text of the interview, posted on Times Online, matches the recording of the conversation and was transcribed by a press representative of Mr Thaksin," The Times said.

Residents in Thailand can still access the newspaper's articles as well as the interview's full transcript.

-- The Nation 2009/11/12

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[animatic]

Thaksin was a free man in Thailand even after conviction,

and the world knows it and has seen the pictures.

The courts ruling was open to public scrutiny

and not behind closed doors after the decision.

Thaksin also declined to appeal and split.

He now tries to play the 'they are all against me card',

totally disingenuous, since he was making the moves on them while in power.

He really stepped on his pud in this interview and is trying desperately to back track.

And the ban on it locally only means MORE people will search it out,

and find out what he said, oops Dr. T.

Being online or in paper press is often far less than pure 'BUZZ'

to spread the word, factual or not.

Edited November 12, 2009 by animatic

[hammered]

Crispin touches on the possibility of a red "rising" of some sort soon. With this story and the Cambodia one if that were to happen now it would be potentially very very deadly. The anti-Thaksin sentiments of many that had started to subside with him away and out of mind are back with a massive vengeance and new injection of life.

Crispin's open statement that Jakrapob informed him weapons had been brought into Thailand form Cambodia is also a worrying issue.

[Wolfie]

Some posts have been removed from this thread for violating the Forum Rules

Regards,

Wolfie

[hammered]

Not surprised to see the Times standing by their story and not accepting the distorted and untrue statement. Eqyually likely they wont bow to the Thai government request for the tape. For a media outlet the best place is inbetween both sides and the Times are there.

[jayboy]

Crispin touches on the possibility of a red "rising" of some sort soon. With this story and the Cambodia one if that were to happen now it would be potentially very very deadly. The anti-Thaksin sentiments of many that had started to subside with him away and out of mind are back with a massive vengeance and new injection of life.

Crispin's open statement that Jakrapob informed him weapons had been brought into Thailand form Cambodia is also a worrying issue.

Do you buy Crispin's line on this latest story which I read this morning.He's someone I respect but I just wonder about his judgement sometimes.He has an odd way of presenting a narrative which he implicitly seems to endorse (without actually saying so) but leaving wriggle room to back away from.If I could be bothered I would go back over his Asia Times pieces in the last 2-3 years and see how credible they seem now.Anyway he's a zillion times better informed than I am and obviously compulsory reading.

[hammered]

Crispin touches on the possibility of a red "rising" of some sort soon. With this story and the Cambodia one if that were to happen now it would be potentially very very deadly. The anti-Thaksin sentiments of many that had started to subside with him away and out of mind are back with a massive vengeance and new injection of life.

Crispin's open statement that Jakrapob informed him weapons had been brought into Thailand form Cambodia is also a worrying issue.

Do you buy Crispin's line on this latest story which I read this morning.He's someone I respect but I just wonder about his judgement sometimes.He has an odd way of presenting a narrative which he implicitly seems to endorse (without actually saying so) but leaving wriggle room to back away from.If I could be bothered I would go back over his Asia Times pieces in the last 2-3 years and see how credible they seem now.Anyway he's a zillion times better informed than I am and obviously compulsory reading.

Reading it I got the impression that he was putting forward a couple of things that could happen or a few scenarios. I think this is often his style - some analysts think, some say. It may not be what we expect in English language papers but it parallels Thai journalistic style more. As you point out he is worth reading because he is well informed and connected. He is also one of the few journalists or at least ones publishing in English that says these things he has been told although it happens in Thai media more.

For what it is worth, I do think the reds had/have somethign planned for November whether it is a big long demo which I think they already mentioned or something else I dont know. Im not sure now after the Cambodia and interview things which have not been so kind to them poltically as to whether if whatever they were going to do will now happen. It does feel like a time of improtnace as a lot is happening and too many people talk of before/until February. However I havent a clue and Crispin mentions everything from uprising to unforced early election called by Abhisit and also has the military wanting to pull the big one on Cambodia to not wanting to do anything. He probably has a better idea but hides what he really thinks in a few other scenarios so unless you happen to be in the know or adept at reading the signs you dont get it.

[Insight]

Crispin touches on the possibility of a red "rising" of some sort soon. With this story and the Cambodia one if that were to happen now it would be potentially very very deadly. The anti-Thaksin sentiments of many that had started to subside with him away and out of mind are back with a massive vengeance and new injection of life.

Crispin's open statement that Jakrapob informed him weapons had been brought into Thailand form Cambodia is also a worrying issue.

Do you buy Crispin's line on this latest story which I read this morning.He's someone I respect but I just wonder about his judgement sometimes.He has an odd way of presenting a narrative which he implicitly seems to endorse (without actually saying so) but leaving wriggle room to back away from.If I could be bothered I would go back over his Asia Times pieces in the last 2-3 years and see how credible they seem now.Anyway he's a zillion times better informed than I am and obviously compulsory reading.

Reading it I got the impression that he was putting forward a couple of things that could happen or a few scenarios. I think this is often his style - some analysts think, some say. It may not be what we expect in English language papers but it parallels Thai journalistic style more. As you point out he is worth reading because he is well informed and connected. He is also one of the few journalists or at least ones publishing in English that says these things he has been told although it happens in Thai media more.

For what it is worth, I do think the reds had/have somethign planned for November whether it is a big long demo which I think they already mentioned or something else I dont know. Im not sure now after the Cambodia and interview things which have not been so kind to them poltically as to whether if whatever they were going to do will now happen. It does feel like a time of improtnace as a lot is happening and too many people talk of before/until February. However I havent a clue and Crispin mentions everything from uprising to unforced early election called by Abhisit and also has the military wanting to pull the big one on Cambodia to not wanting to do anything. He probably has a better idea but hides what he really thinks in a few other scenarios so unless you happen to be in the know or adept at reading the signs you dont get it.

October was supposed to be "the month of red" (or something equally silly) and I didn't spot a single protester for the entire month, which I thought was unusual given that some made themselves visible for rallies even after the post-Songkran debacle.

Still red-shirt leaders and Phua Thai MP's have fled over the border this morning (chasing the satang, no doubt).

[Publicus]

I read the following on the website of TimesOnline:

Mr Thaksin issued a statement saying that The Times's report was "distorted" and "untrue". The text of the interview, posted on Times Online, matches the recording of the conversation and was transcribed by a press representative of Mr Thaksin.

I prefer not to give a link to the web page in question because it contains also quotations from the interview and I understand that these must not be published in Thailand. It appears that the transcription of the interview was made by a press representative of Thaksin, i.e. by a person employed by him. I would assume, therefore, that the Thaksin camp has a copy of the recording and that the published transcript is identical with the text supplied by Thaksin's press representative.

That's what he'll be using then when he sues Times Online for defamation, as he directed his lawyers to do today.

If the published transcript is identical to the text supplied by Thaksin's press representative, then Thaksin would need to sue himself.

Thaksin needs to cough up his transcript and/or recording so we can see what he says he supposedly said or didn't say.

All of this is simply more Thaksin bullshit.

[hammered]

Crispin touches on the possibility of a red "rising" of some sort soon. With this story and the Cambodia one if that were to happen now it would be potentially very very deadly. The anti-Thaksin sentiments of many that had started to subside with him away and out of mind are back with a massive vengeance and new injection of life.

Crispin's open statement that Jakrapob informed him weapons had been brought into Thailand form Cambodia is also a worrying issue.

Do you buy Crispin's line on this latest story which I read this morning.He's someone I respect but I just wonder about his judgement sometimes.He has an odd way of presenting a narrative which he implicitly seems to endorse (without actually saying so) but leaving wriggle room to back away from.If I could be bothered I would go back over his Asia Times pieces in the last 2-3 years and see how credible they seem now.Anyway he's a zillion times better informed than I am and obviously compulsory reading.

Reading it I got the impression that he was putting forward a couple of things that could happen or a few scenarios. I think this is often his style - some analysts think, some say. It may not be what we expect in English language papers but it parallels Thai journalistic style more. As you point out he is worth reading because he is well informed and connected. He is also one of the few journalists or at least ones publishing in English that says these things he has been told although it happens in Thai media more.

For what it is worth, I do think the reds had/have somethign planned for November whether it is a big long demo which I think they already mentioned or something else I dont know. Im not sure now after the Cambodia and interview things which have not been so kind to them poltically as to whether if whatever they were going to do will now happen. It does feel like a time of improtnace as a lot is happening and too many people talk of before/until February. However I havent a clue and Crispin mentions everything from uprising to unforced early election called by Abhisit and also has the military wanting to pull the big one on Cambodia to not wanting to do anything. He probably has a better idea but hides what he really thinks in a few other scenarios so unless you happen to be in the know or adept at reading the signs you dont get it.

October was supposed to be "the month of red" (or something equally silly) and I didn't spot a single protester for the entire month, which I thought was unusual given that some made themselves visible for rallies even after the post-Songkran debacle.

Still red-shirt leaders and Phua Thai MP's have fled over the border this morning (chasing the satang, no doubt).

I wouldnt underestimate what the reds can do. Sure the hardcore dont number millions or anything but their are enough to cause problems and there are many who sympathise with them but wont get involved in outrageous stuff and then there are the social problems although right now I would say isnt the time for reds to push this as the interview and Cambodia are at least wild cards and more likely (slight?) dampers on their support.

Edited to add: Ther is also team yellow and it will be very interesting to see their numbers on Sunday. They have lost support and backing. Can they get more than 10-20K?

Edited November 12, 2009 by hammered

[brahmburgers]

I've read the transcript and even if The Times distorted it for the worse, there's nothing LM in there in my opinion. Only praise and good words for His Majesty. There are negative comments about the Prem and his team, but as fa as I'm aware, LM does not apply to them? Or is that something new?

I've also read it and agree with your assessment. The current gov't and the Privy Council are trying too hard to make a case for LM. It winds up making the them look petty.

I'm no fan of T. There are better ways to meet the problems he represents. The current gov't might try more patience, and allow T and the Red movement to slowly fade to black.

[caf]

I read the following on the website of TimesOnline:

Mr Thaksin issued a statement saying that The Times's report was "distorted" and "untrue". The text of the interview, posted on Times Online, matches the recording of the conversation and was transcribed by a press representative of Mr Thaksin.

I prefer not to give a link to the web page in question because it contains also quotations from the interview and I understand that these must not be published in Thailand. It appears that the transcription of the interview was made by a press representative of Thaksin, i.e. by a person employed by him. I would assume, therefore, that the Thaksin camp has a copy of the recording and that the published transcript is identical with the text supplied by Thaksin's press representative.

That's what he'll be using then when he sues Times Online for defamation, as he directed his lawyers to do today.

If the published transcript is identical to the text supplied by Thaksin's press representative, then Thaksin would need to sue himself.

Thaksin needs to cough up his transcript and/or recording so we can see what he says he supposedly said or didn't say.

All of this is simply more Thaksin bullshit.

The Times has a copy of the recording not Taksin

The Times also has a copy of a taksin transcript which they say is faithful to the iterm published.

In other words they could prove in a court of law that what they wrote is what he said. He has the money to sue, let him sue in a British court.

[caf]

I've read the transcript and even if The Times distorted it for the worse, there's nothing LM in there in my opinion. Only praise and good words for His Majesty. There are negative comments about the Prem and his team, but as fa as I'm aware, LM does not apply to them? Or is that something new?

I've also read it and agree with your assessment. The current gov't and the Privy Council are trying too hard to make a case for LM. It winds up making the them look petty.

I'm no fan of T. There are better ways to meet the problems he represents. The current gov't might try more patience, and allow T and the Red movement to slowly fade to black.

seconded

[Publicus]

In the Times matter, let Thaksin sue in a British court of law. Thaksin for sure will be sued in Thailand and will be hard pressed to win either cause.

As Crispin points out in his piece today, since Thaksin's appointment by Hun Sen to the Cambodian government and Thaksin's arrival in Cambodia, Abhisit's popularity has tripled to popular support of his government coalition by as much as 2/3 the population. If another scientific public opinion research organization can confirm this shift, which includes voters in the North and Northeast, Abhisit and the Democrat party should drive forward to exploit Thaksin's unintended gift to them. (That abrupt 'pow' in the distance is Thaksin shooting himself in the other foot.)

With fools and idiots such as Hun Sen and Thaksin to play against, Abhisit should be able to run with it. By the time the imminent APEC and Asean stuff is over and done with, Abhisit will look all the more a statesman and multilateralist leader.

[caf]

In the Times matter, let Thaksin sue in a British court of law. Thaksin for sure will be sued in Thailand and will be hard pressed to win either cause.

As Crispin points out in his piece today, since Thaksin's appointment by Hun Sen to the Cambodian government and Thaksin's arrival in Cambodia, Abhisit's popularity has tripled to popular support of his government coalition by as much as 2/3 the population. If another scientific public opinion research organization can confirm this shift, which includes voters in the North and Northeast, Abhisit and the Democrat party should drive forward to exploit Thaksin's unintended gift to them. (That abrupt 'pow' in the distance is Thaksin shooting himself in the other foot.)

With fools and idiots such as Hun Sen and Thaksin to play against, Abhisit should be able to run with it. By the time the imminent APEC and Asean stuff is over and done with, Abhisit will look all the more a statesman and multilateralist leader.

as much as 2/3 the population.

you don't believe that do you publicus?

and can you expand on multilateralist? what sides are you talking about? or did you not mean multilateralism?

[Publicus]

In the Times matter, let Thaksin sue in a British court of law. Thaksin for sure will be sued in Thailand and will be hard pressed to win either cause.

As Crispin points out in his piece today, since Thaksin's appointment by Hun Sen to the Cambodian government and Thaksin's arrival in Cambodia, Abhisit's popularity has tripled to popular support of his government coalition by as much as 2/3 the population. If another scientific public opinion research organization can confirm this shift, which includes voters in the North and Northeast, Abhisit and the Democrat party should drive forward to exploit Thaksin's unintended gift to them. (That abrupt 'pow' in the distance is Thaksin shooting himself in the other foot.)

With fools and idiots such as Hun Sen and Thaksin to play against, Abhisit should be able to run with it. By the time the imminent APEC and Asean stuff is over and done with, Abhisit will look all the more a statesman and multilateralist leader.

as much as 2/3 the population.

you don't believe that do you publicus?

and can you expand on multilateralist? what sides are you talking about? or did you not mean multilateralism?

Abhisit, the ______________ leader.

a. multilateralism

b. multilateraler

c. multilateralist

d. multilateralor

e. multilateral

f. multilateraling

Also, to reiterate the above post, if another scientific survey research organization can confirm the shift...

[Steve2UK]

Still red-shirt leaders and Phua Thai MP's have fled over the border this morning (chasing the satang, no doubt).

"fled over the border"? Going to Cambodia to talk to Thaksin, yes - but fled?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Come on, if you take the Thaksin-obsessed up at every such jab then we'd never get anywhere.