Thaland Knew About Thaksin's Flight

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Just read a puzzling report in the Bangkok Post.. Thaksin's jet was not allowed to overfly Thailand.

This implies they knew exactly which plane is his jet and the flight plan.

Thailand has an airforce. They could have granted permission but then forced the plane to land in Thailand, threaten to shoot it down, whatever.

Just how badly does Thailand want Thaksin back, really?

Edited November 14, 2009 by Mario2008
no quoting of Bangkok Post articles - mario2008

[rsy]

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from Associated Press (AP), bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum.

[Samuian]

....what should Thailand have done about it, lose face in trying to force the jet down, take it down with a sam?

but as today's "The Nation" reports, now he isn't allowed to fligh trough Thai-Airspace!

link:

Edited November 14, 2009 by Samuian

[Heng]

Kinda like going to Universal Studios and asking the security guard why he doesn't try to apprehend Harrison Ford when he sees him?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thanks Samuian, that article in The Nation will do, too. Same basic premise.

Forcing planes down is pretty standard procedure; typically involves a couple airforce jets (not surface to air missiles obviously). Basically they tell the plane they're going to land, either softly at a designated airport, or less softly.

Either there's some thing wrong with Suthep's reasoning, with the article, or Thailand doesn't want Thaksin back all that badly and just went through the motions with an extradition request to Cambodia that they knew would be rejected.

[submaniac]

Why would anyone want him back? Whatever he did, he didn't do it alone and he'd probably drag others into it. He's out of the country, problem solved.

[Losangels]

Maybe Thai airforce is afraid of confrontation with Cambo's airforce if they intercepted Thaksin's flight

[zzaa09]

It's just a game. Well played by all participants...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from Associated Press (AP), bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum.

Are you a mod now Jacko ?

[colinscarr]

Of course Thailand knew about the proposed route of Thaksin's Dubai - Phnom Penh flight. The aircraft operator has to apply for 'diplomatic clearance' to overfly countries en route. Thailand could either say OK, you can overfly us, or deny the request forcing the flight to route further north over Burma & Laos, or further south over Malaysia. If they denied overflight clearance, and the aircraft entered Thai airspace; it could be ordered to land. This request could be backed up by a pair of F-16s. Face it, Thaksin may be a pain in the b*m for the Thai gov.t, but he's in an exec jet, not a stealth bomber so he can't completely hide.

[freddy123]

But what if they tried to force him to land, but they refused to land? Could they really shoot him down? How good would that look?

Be a major lose of face wouldn't it? If they tried to force him down but he just kept flying, knowing that if they shot him down they would probably have an even bigger problem on their hands.

[alant]

i have only heard stories about the thai legal system so i am interested to know if an escapee or fugative with a 2 YEAR sentence is normally persued to much, doesnt that cost a lot?

[zzaa09]

Could of saved all this angst, if such authorities disallowed his bail and the ability to retain his passports a few years back. Hindsight is......

[Tyke]

There are international laws against interception of passenger aircraft (even private ones) without good reason. Why would Thailand want to risk being ostracised by airlines just to catch a flying rat? It would have repercussions for tourism, trade and the UN. The simple answer is to put a few bucks in the hands of the Cambodian mafia.

[barrybankruad]

i have only heard stories about the thai legal system so i am interested to know if an escapee or fugative with a 2 YEAR sentence is normally persued to much, doesnt that cost a lot?

Of course the Thai authorities dont want Thaksin back. Whilst he is out of the country thay can huff and puff as much as they want, but to actually have him physically back her would cause mega problems. Rememeber how he 'just'escaped when he was in Malaysia a few months ago? The authorities are only going through the motions. Thaksin is of course stirring the pot by going to Cambodia. Do you blame him? I don't, I think it's a clever move by a very cunning politician. He obviously knows the 'out of sight, is out of mind'

[rixalex]

i have only heard stories about the thai legal system so i am interested to know if an escapee or fugative with a 2 YEAR sentence is normally persued to much, doesnt that cost a lot?

It's not only the 2 year prison sentence that makes him a "wanted" man, it's the fact that he's trying to overthrow the government and is happy to tear the country apart to achieve those ends - Black Songkran being one such example.

I don't think they are pursuing him with the main objective of catching him, it's more about putting him under pressure, isolating him, and reminding everyone that he remains a disgraced ex-PM who has fled from justice.

[DP25]

Thailand has an airforce. They could have granted permission but then forced the plane to land in Thailand, threaten to shoot it down, whatever.

Really live up to your name on this one. Sure, they're going intercept and threaten to shoot down an unarmed passenger plane with numerous staff and innocent civilians on board to get one criminal days before the APEC meeting. That couldn't possibly turn out bad.

[Insight]

It runs deeper than that DP25.

Somebody doesn't want blood on their hands, and Thaksin knows it. I gather Winnie does too.

[zzaa09]

i have only heard stories about the thai legal system so i am interested to know if an escapee or fugative with a 2 YEAR sentence is normally persued to much, doesnt that cost a lot?

It's not only the 2 year prison sentence that makes him a "wanted" man, it's the fact that he's trying to overthrow the government and is happy to tear the country apart to achieve those ends - Black Songkran being one such example.

I don't think they are pursuing him with the main objective of catching him, it's more about putting him under pressure, isolating him, and reminding everyone that he remains a disgraced ex-PM who has fled from justice.

Flee..?? Escapee..?? If I recall, he wasn't held, even after being convicted. Not once, but twice. 'Allowed' to move freely. Seems to me if the Thai authorities were steadfast towards his capture, they would have extended such protocol as to hold him to begin with.

[rixalex]

I don't think they are pursuing him with the main objective of catching him, it's more about putting him under pressure, isolating him, and reminding everyone that he remains a disgraced ex-PM who has fled from justice.

Seems to me if the Thai authorities were steadfast towards his capture, they would have extended such protocol as to hold him to begin with.

If you read what i posted above you would know that i don't think they ever have been steadfast towards his capture. More about pushing him into a far away corner and getting him to be quiet - something that is indeed proving a challenge.

[h90]

Thailand has an airforce. They could have granted permission but then forced the plane to land in Thailand, threaten to shoot it down, whatever.

Really live up to your name on this one. Sure, they're going intercept and threaten to shoot down an unarmed passenger plane with numerous staff and innocent civilians on board to get one criminal days before the APEC meeting. That couldn't possibly turn out bad.

Well the scenarios:

a) fighter pilot is at mia noi, replacement at lunch and the supervisor is out for playing gulf: no problem

Fighter asks the airplane to land and it lands: small problem

c) does not land and fighter has to shoot for warning: not good for tourism and APEC

d) airplane does not land because they think it is just a bluff

Shooting it down: international disaster

don't shoot it down: government and army look like idiots

So better avoid that all

[Insight]

And based on the possibilities of WinnieLand, surely Thailand comes out with the upper hand for actively requesting The Hero Of the Poor's private jet avoid Thai airspace...?

[Samuian]

Thanks Samuian, that article in The Nation will do, too. Same basic premise.

Forcing planes down is pretty standard procedure; typically involves a couple airforce jets (not surface to air missiles obviously). Basically they tell the plane they're going to land, either softly at a designated airport, or less softly.

Either there's some thing wrong with Suthep's reasoning, with the article, or Thailand doesn't want Thaksin back all that badly and just went through the motions with an extradition request to Cambodia that they knew would be rejected.

The last incident in the region, I can remember was a water airplane forced down in Singapore airspace, comin' from Samui, for not having aviation clearance!

There are regulations, if there are no pressing reasons (security) a plane can't be simply forced down, would be some sortof hijacking and maybe great

free advertising for the fugitive!

Maybe flying through thai airspace he anticipated already something like this would happen...

I don't understand why the thai media does give him so much coverage, the whole thing from the reds, his phone ins, the "Cambodian Crisis"is all blown out of proportion - servicing his ambitions neatly.... but then this is TiT!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I don't understand why the thai media does give him so much coverage, the whole thing from the reds, his phone ins, the "Cambodian Crisis"is all blown out of proportion - servicing his ambitions neatly.... but then this is TiT!

I completely agree.

There are international laws against interception of passenger aircraft (even private ones) without good reason.

Respectfully, I see people breathing fire all day every day about how the fugitive traitor is trying to overthrow the Thai government, how he's a wanted criminal and a mass murderer, how he threatens the stability of Thailand, and more. I bet someone as eloquent as Mr. Abhisit could make a case for that being 'good reason'. And besides, it's Thailand; they can do whatever they want. It'd be something else if they went for a plane in other people's airspace.

Shooting it down: international disaster

don't shoot it down: government and army look like idiots

So better avoid that all

That is beginning to sound like the recurring theme of this administration. "Why take action on anything when you can find ways to avoid it."

And based on the possibilities of WinnieLand, surely Thailand comes out with the upper hand for actively requesting The Hero Of the Poor's private jet avoid Thai airspace...?

If they'd manage to capture Thaksin like the claim they want (extraditon request) then there wouldn't be any 'upper hand', then they would have won the game, check mate, done. They would have been able to send Thaksin to jail for two years, during which they have the time to prepare so many LM and corruption cases that he'd never get out of jail for the rest of his life. Solved. Or?

I genuinely don't get it. I'm willing to entertain anyone's logic on this: if he's a fugitive wanted criminal then surely people would expect the government to do (almost) anything to get him. They're not. They're picking fights with an ultimately quite insignificant neighboring country, going through some diplomatic motions. Either ignore him, or be decisive. That would make sense to me. [ All of this completely separate from my private opinion on Thaksin or the government ]

[rixalex]

Respectfully, I see people breathing fire all day every day about how the fugitive traitor is trying to overthrow the Thai government, how he's a wanted criminal and a mass murderer, how he threatens the stability of Thailand, and more. I bet someone as eloquent as Mr. Abhisit could make a case for that being 'good reason'.

Thaksin has been tried and convicted in the land purchase case. That's the only crime he has currently been convicted of. Perhaps Abhisit respects the rule of law and feels that if Thaksin is guilty of those things you mention, there should be a court case to decide that.

I appreciate that when in power, Thaksin was happy to forgo the pesky business of trying people and simply had them shot, but perhaps Abhisit feels differently on the matter.

And let's also not forget that what you seem so keen on would involve not just the killing of Thaksin, but of all the crew and passengers on the plane.

[Stumbo]

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from Associated Press (AP), bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum.

Well, you just keep quotin' the Nation then, astound your friends and colleagues with your in depth knowledge of Thai politics. They do say that ignorance is bliss, but please revel in that state yourself if you choose without trying to impose it on others.

[LaoPo]

OP: Just how badly does Thailand want Thaksin back, really?

They shout a lot but they don't want him back.

It's safer for the government to watch him outside LOS, not inside. They beware, making a martyr of him to the rural people.

LaoPo

[mca]

31) All members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from Associated Press (AP), bangkokpost.com or phuketwan inside topics on thaivisa.com. Posts containing quotes will be deleted from the forum.

Are you a mod now Jacko ?

No. I think he has a social life.

(Joke!)

[Ricardo]

i have only heard stories about the thai legal system so i am interested to know if an escapee or fugative with a 2 YEAR sentence is normally persued to much, doesnt that cost a lot?

It's not only the 2 year prison sentence that makes him a "wanted" man, it's the fact that he's trying to overthrow the government and is happy to tear the country apart to achieve those ends - Black Songkran being one such example.

I don't think they are pursuing him with the main objective of catching him, it's more about putting him under pressure, isolating him, and reminding everyone that he remains a disgraced ex-PM who has fled from justice.

Flee..?? Escapee..?? If I recall, he wasn't held, even after being convicted. Not once, but twice. 'Allowed' to move freely. Seems to me if the Thai authorities were steadfast towards his capture, they would have extended such protocol as to hold him to begin with.

No, It was the previous government (remember who the PM was ?), which allowed him to move so freely. Would he ever have returned, following the coup, unless he thought he would have freedom-of-movement ? The court and government let him leave, to see the Olympics, and he then failed to return. Hence "fled from justice" is quite correct.

The actual sentence wasn't passed, until after he'd failed to return, hence the (correct) claim that he was sentenced (but not tried) in absentia. The current government is just trying to clean up the mess, and enable the other cases against Thaksin to continue, if he ever returns.

That timeline clarified, I think rixalex may be correct, about the current government's true intentions.

[Scott]

OP: Just how badly does Thailand want Thaksin back, really?

They shout a lot but they don't want him back.

It's safer for the government to watch him outside LOS, not inside. They beware, making a martyr of him to the rural people.

LaoPo

So they will tell Interpol this as well. "We want to make a lot of noise and make it look like we are trying, but pleaase don't catch him. Oh, and by the way, could you make him be quiet."